Wolud you still buy a new LGA 775 system now?

[Markistehnamezor]

Of course, the only reason I would get the brand new Nehelam is if there is going to be a huge performance jump. If the performance between the first Nehelam is ~~10%-15% faster than the current yorkfields, I would rather get a yorkfield due to cheaper prices.

 

[Scali2]

if they do lock the fsb on "mainstream" nehalems, it will be back to amd for guys who want to overclock. just in time for the 45nm amd.

Or maybe not?
Currently there's no way to overclock a Phenom far enough to make it match the faster Core2 Quad models.
I expect that the gap between Nehalem and Deneb will be even larger, since Deneb is little more than a die-shrink of the Phenom architecture, where Nehalem will include a triple-channel onboard memory controller and quickpath links.
So chances are that no matter how far you overclock your 45 nm AMD, it will not be able to outperform the "mainstream" Nehalems.

 

[DemonDiablo]

Didnt read the 2nd page, only the 1st and 3rd pages so forgive me if someone actually got to this before me but... I'm tired of hearing about the expense of a new Nehalem platform? I keep on reading on the first page, "You're not going to be able to build a cheap Nehalem until 2nd half of '09 blah blah blah". What a bunch of crock! It's not going to cost you anymore to build a new Nehalem setup than it did to build a new Conroe e6600 2 years ago at launch.

I dont know what road maps and price maps a lot of you guys are looking at, but they clearly arent the ones that I've been looking at around here.

 

[harpoon]

Didnt read the 2nd page, only the 1st and 3rd pages so forgive me if someone actually got to this before me but... I'm tired of hearing about the expense of a new Nehalem platform? I keep on reading on the first page, "You're not going to be able to build a cheap Nehalem until 2nd half of '09 blah blah blah". What a bunch of crock! It's not going to cost you anymore to build a new Nehalem setup than it did to build a new Conroe e6600 2 years ago at launch.

I dont know what road maps and price maps a lot of you guys are looking at, but they clearly arent the ones that I've been looking at around here.

The 2.66GHz SKU is not that expensive ($284) but the X58 mobos are rumoured to have 10 layered PCBs which would make them more expensive (current high end mobos use 6/8 layered PCBs IIRC). Also, Nehalem requires DDR3, which is currently about twice the price of DDR2, though it should be noted that DDR3 prices are steadily dropping whereas DDR2 prices have just about plateaued. So basically its the mobo and RAM that makes Nehalem a more expensive platform, the CPU price itself is very reasonable.

Overclockers.com's Ed takes a stab at what a potential Nehalem platform may cost:
http://overclockers.com/tips01362/

 

[DemonDiablo]

But like I said, a conroe system wasnt exactly anymore expensive at its launch and nobody seemed to have a problem then. DDR2 then cost more than what DDR3 will cost when Nehalem comes out. That price might become a bit moot though since as you have to "basically" buy an extra stick because you're doing tri-channel as opposed to dual-channel this go around.

So basically the only thing thats changing from 2 summers ago is the price of the motherboard, maybe. I've read reports that Intel plans on selling mainstream enthusiasts boards in the sub $200 range. The motherboard is really the only wild card that I see in this equation until they actually launch and come out.

Nice link btw. Quick, short, right to the point, and plays both sides of the price fence.

 

[harpoon]

But like I said, a conroe system wasnt exactly anymore expensive at its launch and nobody seemed to have a problem then. DDR2 then cost more than what DDR3 will cost when Nehalem comes out. That price might become a bit moot though since as you have to "basically" buy an extra stick because you're doing tri-channel as opposed to dual-channel this go around.

So basically the only thing thats changing from 2 summers ago is the price of the motherboard, maybe. I've read reports that Intel plans on selling mainstream enthusiasts boards in the sub $200 range. The motherboard is really the only wild card that I see in this equation until they actually launch and come out.

Nice link btw. Quick, short, right to the point, and plays both sides of the price fence.

The Conroe launch had more SKUs to choose from, and the cheapest C2D (E6300) was only $183. I bought my Asus P5B Deluxe a few months after the C2D launch and it was around $200 from memory. I can't even remember what I paid for 2GB of DDR2-667 1.5 years ago, so I can't really comment on that, but all up I don't think I paid more than $500 for the platform.

Based on that, I can't really agree that a Nehalem platform doesn't cost more than an 'equivalent' platform from 2 years ago, though I hope you're right in that there will be sub $200 mobos.

 

[alg7_munif]

Well, let's take a look at the C2Ds from 2 years go, is an E6300 or E6600 @ 3.2GHz still fast enough for current GPUs? Sure they are. At launch the fastest GPUs were the 7800GTXs and 1950XTs. The C2Ds then proved more than capable of powering the 8800GTS/GTX GPUs, and now they're capable of powering a HD4800 and GTX200 series too. Thats 2 gens of GPUs already, in which time GPU performance has gone up some 400% or more. C2Ds are proving to be quite resilient in gaming longevity - provided you are willing to overclock them, of course.

X2s are a somewhat different situation. They are bottlenecking because they are essentially a 2003 era CPU packaged as a dual core. C2D is a lot more efficient, from memory some ~40% faster in games per clock when the GPU is not the bottleneck. For all its strengths, I don't see Nehalem being 40% faster in games per clock, not even close. I hope to be proven wrong though.

Anyway, a C2D @ 4GHz surely is enough for the current gen, and next gen GPUs as well. Perhaps in 2 years time they will finally bottleneck GPUs as games become more multithreaded, but you assume theres going to a radical change in games in becoming massively multithreaded in the near future, which I don't agree with.

Its going to be a slow process, quads have been around since late 2006, nearly 2 years later there are still only a handful of games that can actually utilize quads, and you know why? Because duals are still dominating sales, only ~10% of Intel sales are quads, so the vast majority of the market is still running duals. Game developers are going to be reluctant to make games that only run well on a small portion of the market. Of course there are always the pioneers that dare to push the envelopes like Sup Com and Crysis, but such games are few and far between.

If and when quads start dropping down to the $100 mark, thats when sales will really take off, and as a result, highly multithreaded gaming will follow. It doesn't look like Intel nor AMD is willing to drop prices to those levels anytime soon. If you check AMD's ASPs, its around the $65 mark, and Intel is around the $100 mark. That shows you where the 'common denominator' is at the moment. $200 quads may seem cheap to 'us' enthusiasts but for most people its still too expensive to consider.

Well, let's take a look at the S939 Athlon 64s from 4 years go, is a single core S939 Athlon 64 @ 2.6 GHz still fast enough for GPUs from 2 years ago? Sure they are. At launch the fastest GPUs were the 6800Ultra and X800XTs. The Athlon 64s then proved more than capable of powering the 7900GTX GPUs, and they're capable of powering a 8800GTS G80 and HD2900 series too. Thats 2 gens of GPUs already, in which time GPU performance has gone up some 400% or more. Athlon64s are proving to be quite resilient in gaming longevity - provided you are willing to overclock them, of course. ​

Sure 4.0GHz C2D is fast enough for the current gen, and next gen GPUs as well but not all C2D can reach 4.0GHz easily, the average OC would probably be 3.2-3.4 GHz but I doubt that the cheap E2000 series could reach this speed easily.

If you have a S939 AMD X2 which can reach at least 2.8GHz and you also have enough ram already, your system can support the GPU like 8800GTX and probably GTX280 too. So If you have a 4.0GHz C2D or a C2Q now, I'm sure that it will support the next GPU after the GTX280 but I don't know about the GPU after that howeverI think that by that time the new CPU, mobo and RAM would be as cheap as it is now.

If you buy a new cheap S775 system now using the components E2000 with only 2GB of RAM, I think that the system would probably struggle to support the GPU after the GTX280 and if you want to upgrade then, a faster CPU and DDR2 RAM would probably cost more than what it is now.

Like I said before S775 is reaching its end of life, buying a cheap S775 system now could end you up in a dead end later.

 

[harpoon]

Please, stop comparing A64/X2 to C2D. They are not the same. C2D is 40% faster per clock in gaming when not GPU bottlenecked. I don't see Nehalem coming close to such improvements over C2D. Mocking my post doesn't make you look clever either, more like a retard trying to be funny.

I was talking about the E0 stepping 45nm E8x00s (I thought I made that pretty clear in my earlier post, obviously not), they are easily hitting 4GHz+ from reports. Of course you decide to take my comment out of context and throw in the E2000 chips. FFS, an E2000 costs under $80, a buyer knows what they're getting into, and besides, they will soon be replaced by the E5200 which is also hitting 4GHz . One can always upgrade to a Yorkfield in the future if things get slow. You claim they will be expensive and scarce in a year or two, I say they won't. Look how long Intel kept making P4s and PDs, they were only finally phased out last year.

As I said in another thread, LGA 775 will remain as the mainstream platform for Intel well into 2009. Even after it is replaced by LGA 1160, CPUs for it won't vanish overnight. I predict LGA 775 chips will be available and plentiful until sometime in 2010, after which they will finally be EOLed.

Speaking of S939, users were able to find reasonably priced X2s up until recently, and its been over 2 years since AM2 was launched. I really don't see your point.

 

[needmorecarnitine]

Like I said before S775 is reaching its end of life, buying a cheap S775 system now could end you up in a dead end later.

Could...?

any setup you buy will be superceded by better hardware. You can't do anything about that. But how much do you get for your money? Using your example lets say you get a 2180. With a budget motherboard and 4GB of ram you could get it for around $200. You question whether it would support the videocard after the GTX280. Of course it will. Will it give as good framerates as with better cpus, no. How often does a buyer of the cheapest cpu pair it up with the most expensive videocard? I guess that it doesn't happen very often.

 

[DemonDiablo]

The Conroe launch had more SKUs to choose from, and the cheapest C2D (E6300) was only $183. I bought my Asus P5B Deluxe a few months after the C2D launch and it was around $200 from memory. I can't even remember what I paid for 2GB of DDR2-667 1.5 years ago, so I can't really comment on that, but all up I don't think I paid more than $500 for the platform.

Based on that, I can't really agree that a Nehalem platform doesn't cost more than an 'equivalent' platform from 2 years ago, though I hope you're right in that there will be sub $200 mobos.

An equivalent platform wouldnt be an e6300 though. Let's be honest for a second here. The e6600 (retailing at $316 at launch) was the best bang for the buck processor that everyone was going after for quite some time.

 

[aldamon]

Nice link btw. Quick, short, right to the point, and plays both sides of the price fence.

I don't see the article playing both sides of the fence at all. It shows very well how expensive Nehalem is going to be and a Conroe setup did not cost $1000+ in the Summer of '06. There was also no question about overclocking like there will be with those mainstream boards you mention. My E6300 was $199 at launch, my 2GB of Team D9 DDR2 was $187, and my Gigabyte DS3 was $147.99. For that money you can now get a Q6600, a better motherboard, and probably 4x the RAM. There is no way in hell S775 is a bad buy now. People need to stop drooling over the Nehalem marketing cool-aid when they already can buy Socket 775 Cristal for the price of cool-aid.

 

[DemonDiablo]

I don't see the article playing both sides of the fence at all. It shows very well how expensive Nehalem is going to be and a Conroe setup did not cost $1000+ in the Summer of '06.

Selective reading for the loss

 

[ilkhan]

this might be a random question, but ive seen nothing about it.

Is bloomfield's mem controller confirmed to be DDR3 *ONLY*?
Plenty of x48 boards are DDR2, and with as much strife as requiring DDR3 seems to be causing, allowing DDR2 would be a popular solution.

And that overclockers.com link is horrible. Newegg has a 1GB DDR-3 133 stick for $65 (3=195, already under their high price.) 6GB (3x2GB of DDR3-1600) is already under $375, $100 under their low price. Now, these are cheapest sticks, but the capacity is already there. I doubt that bloomfield wont have memory dividors availablel, if worse come to worst and the chips are far more overclockable than we imagine.

The people that are setting records cant bitch about price, those who want the best performance for their dollar aren't going to be buying the $800 memory kits.

Also remember that bloomfields will be running multiplyers in the 20-24x range, more than double what we are facing with yorkfields. Meaning that you need a LOT less base clock increase than we do today for the same CPU clocks.

 

[HighTest]

Yep, Bloomfield is DDR3. However, while there are some X48 boards that are DDR2, there are some that are DDR3. When I purchased my Q6600 system this month, I went DDR3 simply due to the ability to reuse the memory later on. Simply purchase that third stick of the same speed/specification from the same vendor and no worries.

 

[9mmx19]

Don't forget that Nehalem is not only a new platform but also a major change in Intel cpus architecture..so expect high prices, a lot of motherboard revisions and maybe some early bugs.

Yeah - right now its waiting for it to come out, then itll be waiting for a good mobo, then itll be waiting for the prices to come down... it never ends...

 

[aldamon]

Selective reading for the loss

Stubborness for the loss. Look at the poll results.

Yeah - right now its waiting for it to come out, then itll be waiting for a good mobo, then itll be waiting for the prices to come down... it never ends...

Yup.

 

[Kubrick]

Yeah - right now its waiting for it to come out, then itll be waiting for a good mobo, then itll be waiting for the prices to come down... it never ends...

Actually it ends when platform becomes mature and prices come down.

 

[RadXge]

DDR3 prices are still far above DDR2 and it will take time before DDR3 becomes affordable.
For this reason, I would not stop recommending buying a DDR2 Intel platform for the moment as it provides a very good bang for the buck solution.
Also, current Penryn processors are very fast and should be fine for a while.

 

[needmorecarnitine]

With Nahalem is just around the corner and it will use a new socket, I don't know whether it is still a good choice to buy a new Intel system right now.

well, if you were depending on the poll results for guidance, you can see results are clear (as of this posting 82.8% think 775 is still worth buying). I voted "Still worth buying". Nothing can beat it in price vs. performance currently.

 

[harpoon]

Indeed, I think the poll results are quite definitive. Epic landslide victory if I've ever seen one.

 

[memnoch_thedevil]

I already want to build a newer system with all of the new vid cards etc...coming out and my pc is only 3 months old. But yea it would still be 775 based lol

 

[myndcrime]

i paid $702 for an e6600, gigabyte ga-965p-ds3, and 2gb of ddr2 on nov 11 2006. Just a little bit after conroe came out

$308 for the e6600
$264 for the DDR2
$130 for the motherboard

Looking back, that was kind of expensive, except for the motherboard. Being a "launch motherboard" though it's kind of cheap and no-frills and craps out at a FBS higher than 366.

I don't think I'll jump on Nehalem right away this time, I'll wait for the prices to go down and for the socket to mature. Maybe even 32nm.

 

[Shadowthor]

Good pricing, and probably another rig to add to folding.