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Whats Behind Warners Blu-ray Switch
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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Paper trail??? Are you kidding me??? The $500mil could be offered as a discount on royalties. There is so many ways you could hide money its not even funny......
You make me laugh....
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Don't make people feel stupid. I'm guessing most of the people on this forum haven't taken any college level business or economic classes, so they wouldn't know how business deals work. Instead, try educating them if they'll not turn a blind eye and be ignorant. Companies don't just go *bam* here's $500M on the table. They do series of differed payments, incentives, stock options, future entitlements, etc.
I think he did that on his own when he posted about something he knew nothing about.
How long did it take for Samsung to get caught???(If they ever prove anything) And thats after someone started talking.
I absolutely do not give 2 rat shits about which format makes it as long as one of them becomes defacto standard. Then i'll buy the hardware and media to do what I need to do. This isn't a VHS vs. Betamax issue. This is an issue of which standard will be adopted because the quality of both is superb in every way, but in this case 2 formats enter, 1 format leaves.
From the Digital Bits:
As it happens, I've actually spoken about this today with Fox's senior VP of corporate and marketing communications, Steve Feldstein, who echoed something Warner's Ron Sanders has also said in recent days: "The kind of money they're talking about [in these stories] isn't worth jeopardizing a multi-billion dollar business." In other words, payoffs would not have impacted Fox and Warner's decisions. Feldstein also told me that when The Pittsburgh Post Gazette piece broke, he contacted Lindich immediately to let him know that he was being misled by someone. When Don posted the same piece on his own blog, it was edited to reflect this. Specifically, the references to $120 million and $500 million payoffs were gone - something that's worthy of note.
The blog is here:
http://www.soundadviceblog.com/?p=758
Again: Steve is posting unsubstantiated "bad" Bluray news, and the people here are eating it up without checking anything
As it happens, I've actually spoken about this today with Fox's senior VP of corporate and marketing communications, Steve Feldstein, who echoed something Warner's Ron Sanders has also said in recent days: "The kind of money they're talking about [in these stories] isn't worth jeopardizing a multi-billion dollar business." In other words, payoffs would not have impacted Fox and Warner's decisions. Feldstein also told me that when The Pittsburgh Post Gazette piece broke, he contacted Lindich immediately to let him know that he was being misled by someone. When Don posted the same piece on his own blog, it was edited to reflect this. Specifically, the references to $120 million and $500 million payoffs were gone - something that's worthy of note.
The blog is here:
http://www.soundadviceblog.com/?p=758
Again: Steve is posting unsubstantiated "bad" Bluray news, and the people here are eating it up without checking anything
I have taken economic classes (one
) but law-school level business classes.All of the various considerations that you listed would need to be disclosed on financial statements. It would constitute material information. Publically traded companies must disclose those in their annual, quarterly etc. filings, and sometimes in financial statements. They can hide the payment somewhat in their financials, but it would be disclosed or buried in a filing somewhere. You can't just brush this under the rug. Well you can, illegally.
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Warner:_No_Payoff_for_Move_to_Blu-ray/1327
Remember, that as president of a major division or subsidiary (too lazy to look it up) of Time Warner, what he says to investors and the public is regulated by the SEC. Stating that they did not accept compensation of any sort, if they did, would have major repurcussions by the SEC and DOJ. Who do you believe, the president of a major company who could be fired, fined, thrown in jail for lying, or a HD DVD fan spouting off in a column?
alg7_munif
Supreme [H]ardness
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For all HD-DVD supporters, I just wanna say that I will buy a couple of Blu-Ray movies this week to show my support on the format and I don't need any cheap HD player because I have my PS3
alg7_munif
Supreme [H]ardness
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Forgot to mention that, instead of bashing Blu-Ray here, why don't you guys HD-DVD supporters show your support of the format to Warber by buying as much HD-DVD movies from Warner as you can.
xX_Jack_Carver_Xx
2[H]4U
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Maybe a lawyer can explain how Bluray (Sony) paying $500 MILLION to content producers to exclude a competing manufacturer from a marketplace is not an...
ANTITRUST VIOLATION of the highest order?
ANTITRUST VIOLATION of the highest order?
Maybe a lawyer can explain how Bluray (Sony) paying $500 MILLION to content producers to exclude a competing manufacturer from a marketplace is not an...
ANTITRUST VIOLATION of the highest order?
But they didn't. Its been steadily denied by all parties involved. Read up the page a little bit and you'll see my posts regarding the issue. In that same light, hd dvd did in fact do it with Paramount, and no one denies it.
My account has now been put on "all alert" status or some other stupid shit because I bitch slapped Steve and the hd dvd crew constantly with real, factual information instead of absolute bullshit that they want to deliver.
Here's your "cool?" Steve, shove it up your fucking ass. I know it's only a day or two before I'd get perm'd for some "infraction" anyway, because I've seen you do the same to other people almost endlessly.
Maybe when I'm gone you can put a funny label on my nick to show everyone how fucking edgy you are, that seems to be your weapon of choice, faggot.
I'll be enjoying HD while the rest of you hd dvd camp fucks continue to cry about your loss.
Ethug.
Here's your "cool?" Steve, shove it up your fucking ass. I know it's only a day or two before I'd get perm'd for some "infraction" anyway, because I've seen you do the same to other people almost endlessly.
Maybe when I'm gone you can put a funny label on my nick to show everyone how fucking edgy you are, that seems to be your weapon of choice, faggot.
I'll be enjoying HD while the rest of you hd dvd camp fucks continue to cry about your loss.
Ethug.
Steve said:
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Where were you at when HD dvd bought off Paramount? I just cant beleive all the HD DVD fanboys on this site. Never are there any facts posted about HD DVD or blu ray from you guys. Always repeated lies about players ceasing to function and BDA being in trouble. Yet time and time again for all of 07 and now 08 the video scan numbers have blu ray on top. Why cant we just all get along. Quit crying that HD DVD has lost, pop open a beer, get laid or go set something on fire in your back yard. Either way your life will not be over because blu ray won. Its not like you all lost money with Toshiba's fire sale of HD players. I have pissed more money away in gas for my truck this month because I cant keep my foot off of the gas pedal.
stoney_titan
[H]ard|Gawd
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Later dude. You were one of the worst posters I've yet to encounter on [H].
It's only appropriate you leave with a double post because thats the minimum for you it seems.
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Also, since I cant edit. I am seriously starting to wonder about the quality of news on [H] now. This shit just keeps getting posted as fact. What else is posted as fact? It seems like once or twice a day there is shit about HD or Blu ray. All of it being rumors.
stoney_titan
[H]ard|Gawd
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For one, It's a HUGE issue in the tech world and this is the news section on a hardware forum.
And secondly, there are more Blue-ray activist here then HD-DVD so you should probably get yours eyes checked.
Orinthical
[H]ard|Gawd
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Find one post where I appear to deserve this HD-DVD fanboi title you so quickly accuse me of being. You won't find it. Everything I have said about the format war, which isn't much actually, is based upon business and personal experience. But as for you and the Blu-Ray camp, you all seem to be mighty touchy and all too quick to insult. Please, get a GenMay subscription if you want to behave that way as it's not welcome here, especially not in the front-page news area.
kent
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I own:
XBOX 360 HD DVD player (HDMI Elite) -> 1080p 42" Philips Ambilight
2 or 3 titles short of 50 HD DVDs, including several imports of US BluRay only movies
I love HD DVD because:
- Cheap
- Region free
- Existing infrastructure (burn 20 min of HD on a DVDR playable in HD format in HD DVD player!)
Things I don't like:
- Spending a lot of money
- DRM
- Rootkits
- Sony
XBOX 360 HD DVD player (HDMI Elite) -> 1080p 42" Philips Ambilight
2 or 3 titles short of 50 HD DVDs, including several imports of US BluRay only movies
I love HD DVD because:
- Cheap
- Region free
- Existing infrastructure (burn 20 min of HD on a DVDR playable in HD format in HD DVD player!)
Things I don't like:
- Spending a lot of money
- DRM
- Rootkits
- Sony
This is old rumor based "news"
Fox running to Sony is known (Fox receiving a payout is new)
The half a billion to Warner is a rumor that Warner has been denying since it came out over a week ago.
Also old news is that Blu-Ray can now be produced in DVD plants without the need for retooling at the same cost.
Most Blu-Ray is region free!
Cheap Blu-Ray as soon as HD-DVD is dead to Hollywood: 06/08
Give it up and move on.
History repeats itself and now your a beta max owner.
Fox running to Sony is known (Fox receiving a payout is new)
The half a billion to Warner is a rumor that Warner has been denying since it came out over a week ago.
Also old news is that Blu-Ray can now be produced in DVD plants without the need for retooling at the same cost.
Most Blu-Ray is region free!
Cheap Blu-Ray as soon as HD-DVD is dead to Hollywood: 06/08
Give it up and move on.
History repeats itself and now your a beta max owner.
TheBluePill
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I have taken economic classes (one
All of the various considerations that you listed would need to be disclosed on financial statements. It would constitute material information. Publically traded companies must disclose those in their annual, quarterly etc. filings, and sometimes in financial statements. They can hide the payment somewhat in their financials, but it would be disclosed or buried in a filing somewhere. You can't just brush this under the rug. Well you can, illegally.
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Warner:_No_Payoff_for_Move_to_Blu-ray/1327
Remember, that as president of a major division or subsidiary (too lazy to look it up) of Time Warner, what he says to investors and the public is regulated by the SEC. Stating that they did not accept compensation of any sort, if they did, would have major repurcussions by the SEC and DOJ. Who do you believe, the president of a major company who could be fired, fined, thrown in jail for lying, or a HD DVD fan spouting off in a column?
Its 100% naive to believe that major corporations are free from corruption and back-room deals. Its just a fact of life and a mainstay of business, especially when working with foreign companies, where kick-backs, bribes and pay-offs are commonplace, even customary. There are so many legal ways to tender favor in a deal, from a lower negotiated license fee to a favorable discount on volume products. Etc.. those are 100% legal. And there is nothing that says certain execs wont catch kick-backs that are much smaller than what is scrutinized by the .gov. Its not just about company A paying Company B, but payoffs to key decision makers for Company B to favor a decision.
Im sorry jack, thats just the way it works.
Now, we have no evidence that BD paid off anyone, so there may have been no wrong doing at all. But there is always a chance of that when something this large happens and so much money is at stake.
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The HD DVD parties came right out and said there was a deal struck of either monetary value or incentives . For this new Blu-ray / Warner deal, they are still denying any deal involving incentives or monetary value. Anyone with 1/10 of a brain in the business world know this isn't the case. A company that is ready to go HD DVD exclusive a week before CES and has all their press conferences laid out just magically is persuaded somehow to go Blu-ray exclusive. In the realm of business, there isn't a more perfect clear example of some under the table deal. Anyhow, it doesn't matter, it is just the fact they are denying it at the moment. And they should still deny it all the way up to May of 2008 because they could face legal action. All the details will come out of the woodwork sooner or later.
Anyhow, it doesn't matter, it is just the fact they are denying it at the moment. And they should still deny it all the way up to May of 2008 because they could face legal action. All the details will come out of the woodwork sooner or later.
kent
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Whoever said at the end of page 3 Blu Ray is "mostly region free" is pretty much full of shit.
Blu Ray has a lot more mandated DRM than HD DVD does.
Blu Ray has a lot more mandated DRM than HD DVD does.
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Wow, Steve went through every HD thread on in the Front Page News forum and deleted every1 of Ethug's posts....very grown-up like behavior...
GJSNeptune
[H]F Junkie
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Naw. I'm sure there's a vB function that automatically deletes all posts by a certain member. I highly doubt they'd make it a manual thing.
"Remember, that as president of a major division or subsidiary (too lazy to look it up) of Time Warner, what he says to investors and the public is regulated by the SEC. Stating that they did not accept compensation of any sort, if they did, would have major repurcussions by the SEC and DOJ. Who do you believe, the president of a major company who could be fired, fined, thrown in jail for lying, or a HD DVD fan spouting off in a column?"
As a person who studied law, you should know how important phrasing maters...I doubt anyone said ok will will discount xyz 500 million for you to switch. I am sure they had discussions and the offer likely changed to the point where Warner felt it was in their best interest to change, it might have added up to the offering being reduce by 500
+ million...I doubt they woke up one day and decided one standard is best for consumers.
Blu-ray tends to favor the Studios, HD DVD tends to favor consumers. HD DVD booked on consumers voting strongly for HD DVD, while Blu-Ray tended to cater to the studios. I can understand HD DVD supporters are crying fowl as they feel their choice was taken away... by studios versus being allowed to continue voting with their dollars.
"The New York Times reports that Warner will choose which format to back based on which sells more movies through the Christmas season. If that's true, the studio is almost certainly headed for Blu-ray landToshiba may have sold more standalone HD players, but Blu-ray continues to dominate total disc sales. Losing WB would be a significant loss for HD DVD."
Maybe they did just base it on sales, or maybe they based it on a variety of factors, or maybe it was simply unit sales. Both sides seemed to push sales this holiday season with buy one get ones at various locations. In the end there might be signs of price reduction is royalties or other kick backs, but in the end one thing you will know for sure is the CEO will be able to say he did not get compensation for switching... but that does not mean that the deal was not sweetened to make it so, it was just never directly expressed as switch for 500 million in savings.
As a person who studied law, you should know how important phrasing maters...I doubt anyone said ok will will discount xyz 500 million for you to switch. I am sure they had discussions and the offer likely changed to the point where Warner felt it was in their best interest to change, it might have added up to the offering being reduce by 500
+ million...I doubt they woke up one day and decided one standard is best for consumers.
Blu-ray tends to favor the Studios, HD DVD tends to favor consumers. HD DVD booked on consumers voting strongly for HD DVD, while Blu-Ray tended to cater to the studios. I can understand HD DVD supporters are crying fowl as they feel their choice was taken away... by studios versus being allowed to continue voting with their dollars.
"The New York Times reports that Warner will choose which format to back based on which sells more movies through the Christmas season. If that's true, the studio is almost certainly headed for Blu-ray landToshiba may have sold more standalone HD players, but Blu-ray continues to dominate total disc sales. Losing WB would be a significant loss for HD DVD."
Maybe they did just base it on sales, or maybe they based it on a variety of factors, or maybe it was simply unit sales. Both sides seemed to push sales this holiday season with buy one get ones at various locations. In the end there might be signs of price reduction is royalties or other kick backs, but in the end one thing you will know for sure is the CEO will be able to say he did not get compensation for switching... but that does not mean that the deal was not sweetened to make it so, it was just never directly expressed as switch for 500 million in savings.
I am sorry your 1/10th of a brain is still failing to make any kind of case here. Warner explained the decision process in multiple interviews. They are a public company they can't take a half billion dollar bribe and make public claims this didn't happen and expect to get away with it.
They went with the side that was in the lead. Plain and simple. Anything else is wacko conspiracy unless you have some evidence beyond your 1/10th of a brain and your theories about how business is run.
With all the problems in the corporate world in recent years they are bending over backward to be squeaky clean. Every year I now have to go to business ethics training to detail what I must/not do, it goes down to the level of when it is appropriate to accept a business meal. Anything I am uncertain about I must contact our ethics office etc... Any large corporation is almost certainly doing large scale Ethics process now.
Taking half a billion dollars and then lying about it in public would be a no no. You are completely out of touch if you think you can just brush that kind of thing under the rug.
You are believing and rationalizing a rumor simply because you want something to whinge about.
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TheBluePill
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Here is a really good read;
http://www.cfoasia.com/archives/200603-09.htm
You are correct that the law and pursuit of corruption is accelerating, it is still VERY commonplace. Just look at some of the examples that have been discussed and you can see that it can and does happen and only a small fraction of those that commit the offense ever get caught and prosecuted.
And its everywhere;
http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/bpi/bpi_2006
Wasn't this the savior of HD-DVD?
Just get a dual format player like I did and watch the "war" from the goalpost.
A dual format player solves nothing, when it wears out after the war is over then you likely can't by another dual format player and half your collection goes unplayable.
Dual format disks would be an way around it if they actually got to market.
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Not only that, but you are even left out in the cold because of the Blu-ray profiles changing. You can't take advantage of certain features unless you re-buy with an updated player.
Dude, preaching to the choir I know there are payouts and kickbacks. I've taken white collar crime in college and law school. But not to the tune of $500M or $150M one essentially one deal. You can't whitewash that. The slush fund for Samsung is rumored to be $215M for the whole fund. And not all of those incentives you listed are always 100% legal as you say.
It's also naive to assume that all companies are in fact corrupt. In any case my point was to illustrate weighing the credibility of someone speaking on behalf of a major publically traded company with repurcussions if they are caught lying, vs. a journalist in an editorial.