Played 2Fort, Well, Granary and I don't remember the name of the last one. I think I played all of the maps in there. Most of the time it's decent to kill time, but then you run into a Level 83002340 Turret at the end of a hallway with the engineer camping right behind it, repairing it if you even hit it with a pistol. That kills the enjoyment pretty fast. I know it wouldn't if I could coordinate with people, but I don't have friends that play games, so it's just public servers for me. I was actually playing on a server tonight where there wasn't a single medic on the team...people would call for heals and just die because everybody was either Scout, Heavy, Engineer or Pyro.
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Official Team Fortress 2 Thread
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ditto.
Spare-Flair
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That's the point, when you encounter an obstacle, you switch classes and counter that obstacle. It's pretty satisfying to push and destoy the sentry. Or just become a spy and walk right up to it while invisible and slap on a sapper. The Sentry will die in 5 seconds.
I didn't "get" TFC at first (I played the original a lot) also but I found the variety made it one of the best multiplayer games there were. You just need to feel the satisfaction of getting some momentum in the game...that and good teammates. I know the public servers aren't always good but most games have one dominant team, goto that team and really enjoy what good teamplay feels like.
You need to play a real one-directional map like Dustbowl or Gravelpit. Trust me, play these maps on the defense team and you'll feel real teamwork.
with a medic the other day, the other team has 3 sg around the intel. i was in heavy. after taking out the entire defense which was two engineers and another heavy, i took out all three sg, grabed the intel and was 15 seconds from capping in heavy when suddenly someone sniped my fat ass, but it was oh so close.
Blazestorm
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I agree it was overpowered in a sense, but I think Valve came up with the simplest solution they could... instead of really testing...
It would be like taking away the scout's ability to cap twice as fast, simply because people do scout rushes. Or nerfing the Ubercharge because people use it with heavys to kill sentrys in groups. Or the spy's ability to cloak. I can still shoot around a corner, the splash damage is nothing like the soldier's rocket...
The demoman shouldn't be hiding around corners planting sticky bombs waiting for groups of enemies to run by... he should be planting those on capture points and congested areas... In big open areas, the Demoman used to be able to bounce grenades off the ground and into enemies... now that he can't do that, he has no viable way to kill anyone at medium/longer range... it's lame... the demo in TFC has a shotgun for that reason, the pipe-remote detonating bombs weren't super powerful, but he had a shotgun if he had to shoot anyone longer-range. Other classes get pistols and shotguns, if the Demoman doesn't, his grenade launcher shouldn't be nerfed that bad. I think 60% damage after each bounce wouldn't be too horrible, so if it did 60 damage per grenade, it does 36 after the first bounce, 21 after the 2nd, and 13 after the 3rd (which is basically nothing)
I would rather have that, then... grenades bouncing around at their feet letting them run away.
Spare-Flair
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Anybody else experiencing INCREDIBLE amount of lag after the last update? I can't play any maps without severe lag and freezing for up to 5-10 seconds at a time occuring all throughout gameplay. I'll even get reliable snapshot overflow and get kicked out of games.
I have shut down all background applications and done everything I can, my system has not changed at all except for the last update. CS Source is still regular speed but TFC2 is lagging to the point of unplayability since the last update.
I have shut down all background applications and done everything I can, my system has not changed at all except for the last update. CS Source is still regular speed but TFC2 is lagging to the point of unplayability since the last update.
Sixthsense
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Man, you should get back into the game. Have you even tried playing with any of the [H] members? just click on the friends tab after you finish refreshing the server browser list. Ask Calebb for an invite.There are several ways to take out turrets solo, easiest way is to pick demoman and lob 4-5 sticky grenades. Initiate explosion with mouse 2. Bye bye level 3 turret ( this even works against an engineer camping/repairing his turret)
Spare-Flair
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The Pyro is an amazing defensive unit now, the mere threat of fire keeps the other team from rushing, it must be human instinct to turn back when inflamed!
A Pyro guarding sentries is the perfect anti-spy unit, in fact, he just has to keep sweeping around with the flame thrower wjen he sees something being sapped and the spys fall like flies.
A Pyro guarding sentries is the perfect anti-spy unit, in fact, he just has to keep sweeping around with the flame thrower wjen he sees something being sapped and the spys fall like flies.
Blazestorm
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I had to beg for a pyro to help me cover from Spys, Finally an experienced player realizing the need in order to defend the point stood right next to me flaming anyone that came near, it was pretty awesome.
I wish there was a way that he could get assists for covering my sentry... that might give more incentive for people to help protect engys...
Speaking of, I tried playing as the spy properly last night (the first time I tried it, i'd not realised that the disguise was permanently applied until you attacked, and thought it was activated by the cloak button. God knows why.) and was a bit puzzled; I was playing it perfectly cleverly, and cloaking to get through my friendlies so that I wasn't seen coming from my spawn, reappearing behind all the enemies etc - none of them noticed and I was getting three or four backstabs a run.
However, there seem to be some people that can just tell you're a spy. I'd be running along in a big group of six or so, and nobody would find me suspicious, except one odd person who joined on later who would just wheel around and fill me up unexpectedly.
Pretty frustrating.
However, there seem to be some people that can just tell you're a spy. I'd be running along in a big group of six or so, and nobody would find me suspicious, except one odd person who joined on later who would just wheel around and fill me up unexpectedly.
Pretty frustrating.
Blazestorm
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Eh, I get that feeling too, sometimes they have the same username as you (it copies someone from the other team to make it appear you're on the team, if it can match it to a class it will, otherwise it uses random names, AKA you disguise as a sniper, but they have no snipers, it'll pick a random name, but if you disguise as a scout, and they have a scout, it'll give you that name as priority
I love playing pyro now, in Dustbowl while defending, I basically run underneath them, and sneak up behind them, kill the medic, and go point-blank with everyone else. It's a bit frustrating fighting other pyros cause theres twice the blinding flame. I'd typically get 3-4 kills before getting shot in the back.
The best part was running on stage 1, back to the first point and on the train tracks behind the snipers and medics waiting to ubercharge out, it was fucking hilarious watching a medic ubercharge, then switch to syringe gun (to shoot me) then see the heavy run out, after killing both snipers and medic, I ran out and killed the heavy in about .2 seconds. Awesomeness.
Regardless, I think they buffed the pyro just right, but nerfed the demo too much... less damage after each bounce = more balanced than... no direct-hit after bounce... I'm picky though
I love playing pyro now, in Dustbowl while defending, I basically run underneath them, and sneak up behind them, kill the medic, and go point-blank with everyone else. It's a bit frustrating fighting other pyros cause theres twice the blinding flame. I'd typically get 3-4 kills before getting shot in the back.
The best part was running on stage 1, back to the first point and on the train tracks behind the snipers and medics waiting to ubercharge out, it was fucking hilarious watching a medic ubercharge, then switch to syringe gun (to shoot me) then see the heavy run out, after killing both snipers and medic, I ran out and killed the heavy in about .2 seconds. Awesomeness.
Regardless, I think they buffed the pyro just right, but nerfed the demo too much... less damage after each bounce = more balanced than... no direct-hit after bounce... I'm picky though
Regardless, I think they buffed the pyro just right, but nerfed the demo too much... less damage after each bounce = more balanced than... no direct-hit after bounce... I'm picky though
Stop whining about the Demoman nerf.
It obviously needed doing b/c with all of his attributes combined he was too powerful as I've said elsewhere. Maybe it could have been a different adjustment than what it got, but it's better than what it was.
Blazestorm
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It's not like other people can't be demoman? I never saw more than 3-4 demomen on a team, and that was typically on dustbowl while defending... It wasn't the god of all classes, no teams ever ran "only" demomen. I've ran all scout teams and capped points insanely fast... why don't they remove the double-cap speed if you have more than 5 scouts on a team? Because thats stupid. You don't remove the special ability, you fix it.
Pipe-bomb is a joke for splash damage.
I used to be able to run up the stairs to the left of that and destroy all those sentrys slightly harder when pipe-bomb splash damage only tickles you
And I've seen 4 sentrys + dispensers in one spot. With 4 engys wacking away and a pyro spamming for spys...
Pipe-bomb is a joke for splash damage.
Sometimes I think people get a little too sentry happy.
I used to be able to run up the stairs to the left of that and destroy all those sentrys
slightly harder when pipe-bomb splash damage only tickles you And I've seen 4 sentrys + dispensers in one spot. With 4 engys wacking away and a pyro spamming for spys...
it's fun as hell, but I find that during a match you don't get too much of a chance to really use stuff before you get killed.
I find as a medic, I would rather rely on support than even make an attempt to kill with that syringe gun.
As a spy, patience is a virtue, but the whole friendly fire makes it real tough to be a spy on some maps. People just spray to see who gets hurt most of the time.
I feel most satisfied playing as an engineer though, it's a constant war with that guy, fixing/building all the time. Nice touch of being offensive and defensive in some senses. I like being able to "self" heal via the stations. If there's no support though you find yourself pretty frustrated.
I like the pyro + engineer combos, I think I'll do that next time I'm on when defending. I think scout's double cap speed is a little much. The whole scout rush is pretty lame, even if you are on the winning side... kinda just speeds thru the match making feel kinda yeah umm that was quick...
I find as a medic, I would rather rely on support than even make an attempt to kill with that syringe gun.
As a spy, patience is a virtue, but the whole friendly fire makes it real tough to be a spy on some maps. People just spray to see who gets hurt most of the time.
I feel most satisfied playing as an engineer though, it's a constant war with that guy, fixing/building all the time. Nice touch of being offensive and defensive in some senses. I like being able to "self" heal via the stations. If there's no support though you find yourself pretty frustrated.
I like the pyro + engineer combos, I think I'll do that next time I'm on when defending. I think scout's double cap speed is a little much. The whole scout rush is pretty lame, even if you are on the winning side... kinda just speeds thru the match making feel kinda yeah umm that was quick...
Blazestorm
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Easy ways to counter scout rushes... build sentrys and build them fast...
We scout-rushed, and they a.) setup sentrys in horrible spots (we'd by-pass them fairly easily) or they wouldn't have them upgraded/setup in time and we'd kill them before they'd do much damage.
It was a small like 16 person server, but all you need are Pyros/Heavys on the cap... or right next to it Destroys a scout rush in a couple seconds.
We scout-rushed, and they a.) setup sentrys in horrible spots (we'd by-pass them fairly easily) or they wouldn't have them upgraded/setup in time and we'd kill them before they'd do much damage.
It was a small like 16 person server, but all you need are Pyros/Heavys on the cap... or right next to it
Destroys a scout rush in a couple seconds.Stop whining about the Demoman nerf.
The choice shouldn't be between a crappy underpowered class and a slightly overpowered class. He has every right to complain, because now one of the classes he had fun with seems to be pretty worthless.
I don't think that Demo was that great before, but he might have been a little too powerful. Now he just doesn't seem up to snuff.
At least they got the Pyro right.
I haven't seen the Demo be "worthless" since the change, the character still gets his share of kills in the games I've played. He's just not as dominating now as before which is as it should be.
I take it you weren't a medic either, then. Funny, that.
Begining to think some of the classes need better options when it comes to taking out or getting past sentries. A sentry gun with an engineer repairing it and a pyro checking for spys truns into a practically unstoppable foe, the only thing that can take one down is a ubercharged soldier or HWG, at a push a demomans 2nd grenades work ok.
When people used to have grenades sentries were less of a problem, spys could drop grenades on the sentry and take it out without the engineer being warned that their sentry is being zapped.
I don't think grenades are the answer but right now a team camping on something like 2 fort with 3-4 sentries in the basement or anywhere in their base start to become a problem, a scout can get into the base only so far then becomes totaly useless because he stands practically no chance of getting past a sentry.
The best most classes can do is pop out, shoot and pop back in again (this is the only weakness of the turrent, even still you have to be FAST), now this works fine if there is no reparing engineer, but if the engineer is sitting right behind the turret (in cover) with a dispenser behind him, he can sit there an infinately repair the turret while you run out of bullets/rockets/grenades to shoot it with...
Valve proclaimed in their commentary that they wanted to avoid stalemates yet the engineers are such a powerfull defensive force that only 2-3 engineers on 2fort are enough to make capping practically impossible (at least on a pub)
When people used to have grenades sentries were less of a problem, spys could drop grenades on the sentry and take it out without the engineer being warned that their sentry is being zapped.
I don't think grenades are the answer but right now a team camping on something like 2 fort with 3-4 sentries in the basement or anywhere in their base start to become a problem, a scout can get into the base only so far then becomes totaly useless because he stands practically no chance of getting past a sentry.
The best most classes can do is pop out, shoot and pop back in again (this is the only weakness of the turrent, even still you have to be FAST), now this works fine if there is no reparing engineer, but if the engineer is sitting right behind the turret (in cover) with a dispenser behind him, he can sit there an infinately repair the turret while you run out of bullets/rockets/grenades to shoot it with...
Valve proclaimed in their commentary that they wanted to avoid stalemates yet the engineers are such a powerfull defensive force that only 2-3 engineers on 2fort are enough to make capping practically impossible (at least on a pub)
calebb
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Don't forget spies!!!!
Engy is my favorite class, but I'm only 50% effective if I'm standing by my sentry - I'm much more effective if I'm up giving support to the main offensive line.
And sure enough, the moment I step away from my sentry, a spy comes by and saps it - grr!
Rock, Paper, Scissors, as they say!
Blazestorm
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I think the best option is to add a feature in the seperate maps, that "limit" the amount of sentrys in certain areas because there's "interference" with other sentrys.
That would solve a lot of problems, and would simply prevent engys from piling everything in one spot.
That would solve a lot of problems, and would simply prevent engys from piling everything in one spot.
Axdrenalin
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Love the game, but lately (i.e. past couple of days) when I fire it up it seems to lag for minutes on end and take out my whole connection, resetting my DSL line (twice today). I can browse for hours or play any other game online without issue, but TF2 isn't cooperating with me much now. Anybody else seeing these symptoms?
Yeah, that actually sounds like a really good idea.
I do have problems with my connection being reset every 15 minutes or so when I play TF2. Takes around 20 seconds so I don't even drop from the game, but its not so fun in the midst of a firefight.
There are a few reasons for this. Some people (pyros) just check everyone when FF is off; I usually check anyone that comes around sentries. Its also obvious when someone sees you using their name or a friend's name. Its also pretty common to just get caught by random crossfire. Spies are MUCH more efficient when FF is on.
And I totally agree with you guys about stalemating sentries and no time limit. Its especially bad on pubs, in which people generally just play whatever class they like most and attack one at a time. Last night I had a round on 2fort last over two and a half hours, and by that time everyone was just pissed. All servers need time limits on all maps.
Don't forget spies!!!!
Engy is my favorite class, but I'm only 50% effective if I'm standing by my sentry - I'm much more effective if I'm up giving support to the main offensive line.
And sure enough, the moment I step away from my sentry, a spy comes by and saps it - grr!
Rock, Paper, Scissors, as they say!
As I said, if they have pyros checking for spies...all you need is 2 maybe 3 engineers and 1 pyro and its near unpassable, it doesn't matter what you throw at it, spies become imediately useless, heavies can't do crap even with uber because the turrets push you back way too much. Soldiers are ok but 4 rockets with a repairing engineer isnt enough even if they're fired all one after another.
You need like 2 ubered soliders to get past it, the chances of that coordination in a public game are practically none, yet these impossible to pass defences crop up reguarly, totaly destroys the game if you ask me.
Another note i'd like to make is the punishment of the 20 second spawn timer makes people want to stay alive and run away rather than risk anything and push fowards, you see time after time, someone run out get slightly hurt and imediately return to cover again.
valve badly need to stop punishing players for dying because everyone is afraid to push foward due to the lame wait, very few games actually have good momentum they're all spent hiding behind a good defence and not really going anywhere, especially when one team is more than happy with a draw and will never risk going on the offensive, so you're left fighting like 8 engineers.
calebb
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I dunno, I think that 1 ubered HWGuy can get past it - target the Pyro first, then the engies or maybe a sentry or two.
Besides engineer, I also play Medic/HWGuy/Spy quite a bit - and I feel that even 3 SG's are no match for a good Spy or Medic/HWGuy combo. And remember, that's TWO players (Medic/HWGuy) taking down FOUR (3 SGs/1 Pyro).
Or maybe I've just never come up against a good Engy/Pyro team when I was playing HWGuy/Medic/Spy?
And when I'm playing as engineer with a Pyro backing me up, ubered HWGuys always manage to take us both out... it feels pretty balanced to me, except that there is no impenetrable defense in my experience.
The problem is that the HWG is only good close quaters and the sentry guns push players like crazy, this is a large part of the problem, if you're a scout and you jump near one it can fling you across the map, this happened to me when enemies got a turret underneath our 2fort balcony and I jumped off, it actually pushed me to the enemy balcony, so stupid.
Keep distance? Use the conveniently placed water on maps?
Spare-Flair
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The sentries and pyros have made Dustbowl perfectly balanced now. Before, it was ridiculously easy to cap the first two points.
However, the new pyros and sentries ruin maps like 2Fort. I've yet to see a successful intelligence capture with these in place. 2 Fort needs fixing, like intelligence up top instead of the basement so it's easier to reach.
However, the new pyros and sentries ruin maps like 2Fort. I've yet to see a successful intelligence capture with these in place. 2 Fort needs fixing, like intelligence up top instead of the basement so it's easier to reach.
calebb
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2fort has had the intelligence in the basement for the last 8.5 years - it can't change now!
When I play with TF2 with the guys from work, we've never had a problem taking the intelligence. We just get a good variety of classes, wait till everyone is alive and go take it -
I do agree though - in a pick-up group with everyone doing their own thing, it's very hard to get the intelligence by yourself or with just one other player...
Exactly. This is why the game is called Team Fortress 2, with the emphasis on "team". I see it all the time in match after match - peeps going off on separate ventures trying to get max kills instead of playing together with an objective. I don't know how many times they've all just battled it out in 2fort and no one has gone to grab the intel.
Random idiocy doesn't work so hot in this game.
So true, I came up on a nest of 3 SGs in the bottom of 2fort today as an ubered heavy, every time I peaked the sentries just knocked me into the hallway so I couldn't get close enough to take them down. Hope that knockback is the next thing on the patch list.
calebb
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Don't grenades take out the engies protecting the sentries? A spy can sap 3 teleporters, 3 dispensers and 3 sentries in ~4 seconds. (I do agree, the knockback is annoying, but in case they don't change this, I just wanted to suggest a strategy to beat it as-is)