More heartbreak for Windows Phone fans...
http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-phone-market-share-drops-to-17
http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-phone-market-share-drops-to-17
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Windows Phone marketshare sinks to 1.7%
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T4rd
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The good thing is that WP still won't be going anywhere. MS can hemorrhage money on it for the foreseeable future and still not go under. They can basically brute force the market until they do something good enough to improve their market share significantly. So I don't see WP going anywhere any time soon and that's a good thing because competition is good.
They'll pack it in eventually. As long as their market share was rising, I could see them hanging in, but the situation is getting worse and worse.
T4rd
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And then introduce another platform if they do. So effectively still doing what I said. MS is a computing titan, they're not going to pull out of the mobile realm under any circumstance.
I thought the OS was free for devices under 10" screen size?
Fix the App gap and they will see their marketplace increase significantly. the OS itself isn't the issue, its the lack of this app or that app that keeps people away.
X86 Windows is, the WP OS has a $15 per device sold/activated.
The lack of apps aren't due to developmental issues, it's easier to develop for WP than iOS which says something. MS will put you with a tech one on one to help you get started even. Problem lies with no OEM wanting to pay $$$ vs an OS that's FREE and has the largest App Store?
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Zahid Iqbal
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I am windows phone big fans. Its just break my hear. Do you know, windows phone are much better thatn android or iOS. much better in ram usage, speed. Just give it a try one time and you will be amazed. much better from MS.
UnknownSouljer
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The other issue is that Windows isn't sexy. Nor do they really have a flagship device. Windows 7/10 mobile has mostly been focused on the middle market. There have been few if any flagship devices. I can't even think of any outside of a a few Nokia offerings.
Not being sexy is okay for corporate, so long as like you mention they have the apps as well as security and support. But lack of a true halo product is killing them.
This right here. Did no one have the thought while Panos and his gang we're designing the Surface Pro and Surface Book line for like the past four years "Hmm maybe we should get that designer from the phone group over here so they can have a product that complements our, or at least has design language from the same universe"
CannibalTrout
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I love the WP OS, but like many said they need to fix their app issues. %99 of what is on their store is just fake ad crap, and the real apps that exist are horrid compared to their android/ios counterparts. Even Microsoft's own apps aren't as developed on WP as their are on android/ios. That's sad..
And for crying out loud, start releasing phones again and not at the stupid high prices that the 950 and 950xl are at. There's no reason those phones should cost so much. start selling your phones like Motorola, sell direct and with support for all carriers.
Carrier exclusives are the stupidest thing in the cellular world imho. All phones should support all bands for all carriers. And the carriers can have a simple disclaimer that unless you buy a carrier approved device they won't support phone related issues. only service related issues like bad simcard or other Verizon side issues.
And for crying out loud, start releasing phones again and not at the stupid high prices that the 950 and 950xl are at. There's no reason those phones should cost so much. start selling your phones like Motorola, sell direct and with support for all carriers.
Carrier exclusives are the stupidest thing in the cellular world imho. All phones should support all bands for all carriers. And the carriers can have a simple disclaimer that unless you buy a carrier approved device they won't support phone related issues. only service related issues like bad simcard or other Verizon side issues.
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Silentbob343
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The app situation could get better with their iOS cross compilation project. We'll see how that goes.
They have always had flagship phones with great hardware and then middle tier/low tier phones to round out their offerings. Nothing new, you could get the 92X/1020/1520 or the 830/730/640 or the 5xx/63x.
Honestly the 640 is a very good value, picked one up a few weeks ago for the old lady and was very impressed for the $60 she paid. I will be getting one on Thursday for $30.
Shame to hear, but I am not surprised. Recent growth from them has been only in emerging markets, hence the selection of handsets.
Its nice to see the 950 and 950XL being released and honestly I think they are priced reasonably. $550 I believe for the 950 with; expandable storage, accessible battery good to great camera and specs that should be terrific for an OS that is relatively light on resource needs. Super bargain, nope, but should perform well and a step up from what is currently out there.
Now the painful part, apps. An app store full of partially functioning apps or apps that are little more than a link to a website but still ask for permissions that you dont have to give to simply access a website via IE is inexcusable.
I have grown to love the core functionality of the OS and its ability to get stuff done is what is sexy. That being said, my next phone is probably not a MS phone.
There is a chance if iOS apps will run on WP but as it is now, stick a fork in it. Seeing how nice the office apps are on my wife's iPhone is ultimate insult as well.
-Currently a 640XL user and pulling for MS to do something in the mobile space but not going to blindly support a cause that does not get the attention it deserves from MS.
Its nice to see the 950 and 950XL being released and honestly I think they are priced reasonably. $550 I believe for the 950 with; expandable storage, accessible battery good to great camera and specs that should be terrific for an OS that is relatively light on resource needs. Super bargain, nope, but should perform well and a step up from what is currently out there.
Now the painful part, apps. An app store full of partially functioning apps or apps that are little more than a link to a website but still ask for permissions that you dont have to give to simply access a website via IE is inexcusable.
I have grown to love the core functionality of the OS and its ability to get stuff done is what is sexy. That being said, my next phone is probably not a MS phone.
There is a chance if iOS apps will run on WP but as it is now, stick a fork in it. Seeing how nice the office apps are on my wife's iPhone is ultimate insult as well.
-Currently a 640XL user and pulling for MS to do something in the mobile space but not going to blindly support a cause that does not get the attention it deserves from MS.
YeuEmMaiMai
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well they literally screwed themselves when they alienated the pocket PC community in favor of that turd known as WP 7....
Megalith
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How do you fuck up something this bad when you have the money to make it succeed from the beginning. It's like MS actually has a division whose sole purpose is to fuck up other divisions as badly as possible.
Not many other OEM is willing to waste their time and efforts to make a Windows Phone when people don't want it largely due to lack of apps. Not many developers will flock to a platform without users. Microsoft screwed themselves by not coming out with many phones early supporting different hardware. If they want to go the Apple route, there might be a chance only if Microsoft come out and deliver the best x86 phone on the planet.
They want a converged OS on all devices, then they must go x86 or don't bother. I said it years ago. Microsoft's fate is tied together with Intel. Intel's mobile fate is tied together with Microsoft. It's long been time for the old Wintel Alliance to come back together.
Although now that ARM processing power seem to be catching up to Intel's, Intel might as well quit the Mobile chip industry... the Apple A9 is better than the Core M chips! And when you talk about power consumption, there is no match! I say all of this hoping to drive Intel and asking them to surprise me. Fortunately for Intel, there are not many industrial/desktop level apps compiled for ARM yet.
They want a converged OS on all devices, then they must go x86 or don't bother. I said it years ago. Microsoft's fate is tied together with Intel. Intel's mobile fate is tied together with Microsoft. It's long been time for the old Wintel Alliance to come back together.
Although now that ARM processing power seem to be catching up to Intel's, Intel might as well quit the Mobile chip industry... the Apple A9 is better than the Core M chips! And when you talk about power consumption, there is no match! I say all of this hoping to drive Intel and asking them to surprise me. Fortunately for Intel, there are not many industrial/desktop level apps compiled for ARM yet.
Disagree. Flagship or not, MS is in no position to be pricing phones at $550 and $650. Not when they're in desperate need of a come-from-behind gain.
They're not Apple or Samsung. When you're that far behind, you unfortunately can't merely match the pace of your competition and call it a day, you have to find a way to be better than. That is the unfortunate position they're in.
Consumers will ignore $650 windows phones. Only the most diehard fanboys and Android/Apple haters will bother. The fact Joe Belfiore seems to have been quietly let go ("sabbatical", yarite) also doesn't bode well for the division.
Ur_Mom
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He wasn't let go. He's going on a vacation (more detailed than that) with his family. He already used his sabbatical, but he got an exception to go and his job is waiting for when he gets back. He's fine. This was directly from him.
WP is a great phone. Verizon hates it, and tries not to sell it (they always try and talk me out of it, and their selection sucks, and they take too long to get any decent phones, and they take forever for updates....). AT&T is the only carrier to have the 950/950XL now, with no plans of a CDMA model. Verizon is the carrier to appease. I'd be doing what it took to get on their good graces.
I love my Lumia 928. Loved the HTC 8X and the Titan before that. Excellent phones.
Silentbob343
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and yet they have had some great ones.
I don't know what if anything can save windows phone, a shame because I truly enjoy it more than android in many ways.
Verizon doesn't like the iPhone either, their sales techs will almost always try to push their Droid brand on you.
Silentbob343
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Probably make most of their money through android devices if I had to guess.
heatlesssun
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Windows Phone is the new desktop Linux.
Because they strong arm Moto through contract to make a barebones phone and they put their shit software on it and prevent it from moving networks. Essentially what they do is steer you towards a phone you can't take to another network.
UnknownSouljer
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Not even close. They make most of their money through service contracts. Anything from phones is just gravy. Most of the time they probably only make "at most" retail level amounts of margin from phones. However, a lot of service providers make "less" by lowering their monthly plan costs, in order to make their plans more attractive.
Verizon however being essentially the Tier 1 market leader doesn't have to nor does lower prices on anything. You're paying what they want you to pay on Verizon. I wouldn't doubt if Verizon was paid and/or otherwise incentivized to sell a particular product however. From a business perspective, they don't care who they "push" so long as it makes them more money in both the long and short term.
YeuEmMaiMai
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apps is a non issue. When MS bought Nokia's mobile division, it was a clear sign to others HIV that MS didn't want them around.... MS should have NEVER bought Nokia's mobile division...
spot on... vast majority of [insert wireless carrier here]'s income comes from residual customers, not new customers or hardware. on average it takes about 6 months for a carrier to break even on a new subscriber... (ask me how I know this) when they are on a subsidized plan and about 2 months if they are on a BYOD or a pay over 2 year deal.
There was another report from Ericsson about phone retention. Only 20% of WP users stick with the OS when they get new phone. Rest mostly choose Androis handset as new device. Looks like MS can't attract new people, and are loosing old customers.
Source: http://www.mobileworldlive.com/devi...rump-windows-phone-for-user-loyalty-ericsson/
Source: http://www.mobileworldlive.com/devi...rump-windows-phone-for-user-loyalty-ericsson/
I can see your point it, but I feel that the 640, 640XL and slew of other mid-rangers are the bargains. I think MS knows that flooding the market at loss will not save the brand. It will have to be features (continuum?) and increased app support.
A phone on the market that ticks all the boxes will go for $550 in the open market. Any phone that is not has had a sizable compromise (jury is still out on the Nexus 5X and 6P, they might be the exception). The 950 is more than a Benjamin cheaper than an iPhone, has more storage + removable storage and should have excellent battery life. The difference grows when you jump to the XL, but that is just the hardware and ignores the hole known as Windows Store.
Phone pricing aside, I certainly agree that the need something to move the experience forward. Maybe they should throw in a new SP4....I'd be down.
heatlesssun
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Sweet! I have that option at AT&T but really want the 950 XL. Not sure why that's not available from AT&T.
waderunner
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To me, the Lumia 640 is just an awesome $60 to $80 phone, depending on where you buy it, and for what carrier. Same with its predecessors, and probably its successors. I don't see any iOS or Android device that really competes with it in terms of hardware. I do understand the apps disparity, but I don't really "get" it. How many different apps do most people need or use? What's really missing from the Windows phone? For me, so far, its just lack of an official Starbucks store app, which hardly impacts my life. I've got good email, good mapping, good podcasting, an amazing camera for the phone price, plus some fun Lumia-related photo apps. Somehow, I think this Windows phone thing could still catch on... 
(or course, I said that about the Zune, too) Maybe I should start spreading the word, via my friendster and myspace accounts, and even in second life...
(or course, I said that about the Zune, too) Maybe I should start spreading the word, via my friendster and myspace accounts, and even in second life... To me, the Lumia 640 is just an awesome $60 to $80 phone, depending on where you buy it, and for what carrier. Same with its predecessors, and probably its successors. I don't see any iOS or Android device that really competes with it in terms of hardware. I do understand the apps disparity, but I don't really "get" it. How many different apps do most people need or use? What's really missing from the Windows phone? For me, so far, its just lack of an official Starbucks store app, which hardly impacts my life. I've got good email, good mapping, good podcasting, an amazing camera for the phone price, plus some fun Lumia-related photo apps. Somehow, I think this Windows phone thing could still catch on...
For me the app disparity is when the app (even basic ones) exists on multiple platforms, Flipboard, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc but the WP version of the app is several generations behind and lacking the same functionality of the app on other platforms. Jumping from Android to WP, I was shocked about the amount of functionality lost on the WP apps.
Then there are apps like Banking and Credit cards that are convenient that you can no longer have on WP due to lack of continued support.
In my mind, its not about the quantity, its about the quality of the few that are out there. Heck, even office functions better on my wifes iP6 than my 640XL, and I have a real file browser! Ouch.
Silentbob343
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I feel like it went without saying, compared to other devices. I wasn't claiming hardware sales as their main revenue stream.
To me, the Lumia 640 is just an awesome $60 to $80 phone, depending on where you buy it, and for what carrier. Same with its predecessors, and probably its successors. I don't see any iOS or Android device that really competes with it in terms of hardware. I do understand the apps disparity, but I don't really "get" it. How many different apps do most people need or use? What's really missing from the Windows phone? For me, so far, its just lack of an official Starbucks store app, which hardly impacts my life. I've got good email, good mapping, good podcasting, an amazing camera for the phone price, plus some fun Lumia-related photo apps. Somehow, I think this Windows phone thing could still catch on...
Yea, but there is a lack of parity in the apps that do exist. Maps and email, compared to android, could be better. Really wish Google would offer those on other platforms. Your last sentence makes me think you know this as well.
I don't see the app gap getting better. I hope their unified platform strategy takes hold, that coupled with the iOS app bridge and possible win32 support make it very enticing.
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To me, the Lumia 640 is just an awesome $60 to $80 phone, depending on where you buy it, and for what carrier. Same with its predecessors, and probably its successors. I don't see any iOS or Android device that really competes with it in terms of hardware. I do understand the apps disparity, but I don't really "get" it. How many different apps do most people need or use? What's really missing from the Windows phone? For me, so far, its just lack of an official Starbucks store app, which hardly impacts my life. I've got good email, good mapping, good podcasting, an amazing camera for the phone price, plus some fun Lumia-related photo apps. Somehow, I think this Windows phone thing could still catch on...
All of the apps are missing and the ones in the WP store are old, outdated, missing new features, or have been abandoned by the developer. Then there is the piece of garbage knock off 3rd party apps that MS either paid for and are abandoned or are from random devs. Even the 1st party apps aren't as good as the iOS or Android equivalents.
The low end Lumia devices are nothing special and there are 100's of Android devices that compete. It's not about HW anymore in the smartphone space, almost everything is the same. You are either in the iPhone or Android camp. Two choices is a perfect number for the majority of consumers. Three or four choices doesn't help the buying decision.
x86 isn't the saving grace for Windows Phone and never was. A desktop OS in your pocket? No one wants that. Plugging in a keyboard, mouse, and monitor into your phone to run desktop apps? If I have to do that I rather use a desktop or laptop with full use. A phone is always a compromise. Continuum is just a gimmick that is a use case for no person.
I laugh when I still see MS employees say the smartphone race is a marathon not a sprint. Well the winners already crossed the finish line a long time ago an WP is still gasping for breath at mile 7. Pack it up MS.
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ManofGod
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Verizon refused to support the 950 and 950xl which, unfortunately, even Microsoft can not force them too. Even if I were to buy a phone aftermarket, Verizon will not activate the phone on their network, AT ALL! I have a high end phone in the HTC One M8 for Windows and it is upgraded to Windows 10 10586. It has 2 days of battery life, the best speakers around and a decent camera. I see no reason to spend $800 on an iPhone or $600 on a high end Android phone that slows down through OS rot. (They are not junk but way to expensive to switch when what I have works great and ties in with the rest of my Microsoft hardware and software.)
Says the person who has not used or owned one and believes he knows what is best for everyone else. Oh, and last time I checked, the "winners" are still running the race and losing steam as time goes on. After all, how many $600 phones can you sell with the same old, same old in a new wrapper. One of the real issues is that the cell phone service providers do not even try to sell the Windows Phone and have not for a while. In fact, Verizon is throwing a hissy fit and not even allowing the 950 and XL on their network at all.
Oh well, enjoy your phone replacing every year to keep up, I will enjoy mine without having to run out and buy a new one every year.
Even if I were to buy a phone aftermarket, Verizon will not activate the phone on their network, AT ALL! I have a high end phone in the HTC One M8 for Windows and it is upgraded to Windows 10 10586. It has 2 days of battery life, the best speakers around and a decent camera. I see no reason to spend $800 on an iPhone or $600 on a high end Android phone that slows down through OS rot. (They are not junk but way to expensive to switch when what I have works great and ties in with the rest of my Microsoft hardware and software.)Says the person who has not used or owned one and believes he knows what is best for everyone else.
Oh, and last time I checked, the "winners" are still running the race and losing steam as time goes on. After all, how many $600 phones can you sell with the same old, same old in a new wrapper. One of the real issues is that the cell phone service providers do not even try to sell the Windows Phone and have not for a while. In fact, Verizon is throwing a hissy fit and not even allowing the 950 and XL on their network at all. Oh well, enjoy your phone replacing every year to keep up, I will enjoy mine without having to run out and buy a new one every year.
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UnknownSouljer
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The one fallacy I'm going to put out there is you don't have to buy a phone every year. Nor do you have to "keep up". I'm using an iPhone 4S. It works just fine. There are plenty on these boards that only upgrade when their contract is up... it's a fair guess that most of the general public does as well. Generally a 2 year upgrade cycle.
Then there are people like me on MVNOs that have to pay for their phones out right and are looking for much lower cost options.
This is the [H] so the numbers are skewed a bit here. You have people that buy 5 phones a year like Zorachus. And the rest of the tech elite that buy at least once per year. But overall I'd say they're probably at most 1% of the total market.
Then there are people like me on MVNOs that have to pay for their phones out right and are looking for much lower cost options.
This is the [H] so the numbers are skewed a bit here. You have people that buy 5 phones a year like Zorachus. And the rest of the tech elite that buy at least once per year. But overall I'd say they're probably at most 1% of the total market.
Says the person who has not used or owned one and believes he knows what is best for everyone else.
I use a Windows Phone w/ WP10 daily.
ManofGod
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I use a Windows Phone w/ WP10 daily.
Guess I was wrong on that. I still think you are wrong on everything else though.
MS' Mobile division is extremely profitable and it's mainly due to patents/royalties. WP isn't going anywhere and most likely will never see another big push to get mainstream again.
Nokia was originally purchased with the intent of being their sole hardware OEM but it seemed that they never needed to.