Windows 10 “Threshold 2” Update Slated For November Release

Ur_Mom said:
It doesn't matter if they are or aren't. If the consumer thinks it's a big enough problem with the proposed evidence, then it's a problem. Look at the Windows 8 lack of start menu. For many, it wasn't a problem. For many others, it was. Therefore - it was changed.

You have to please the customer. Like Facebook, though, it's becoming to where the person running the computer isn't the customer. They are a product.

A lot of the stuff I do with Windows needs that connection to Microsoft - Cortana, OneDrive, Insiders, Feedback tool, etc.. I have no problem with how it is right now. But, if someone wanted to have an offline machine (or a secure online machine), Windows 10 is not the most practical OS.
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The issues with the Windows 8 UI was a visible issue. The privacy concerns aren't and most people with a Windows PC already have other devices and use other services that are doing the same things that Windows 10 does by default and are either unaware, don't care or like the features of the data sharing. In any case, as much as people use smartphones and online services if these privacy concerns really concerned people as much as some think, the computing landscape would simply be much different than it is. There's no way that smartphones and many online services would have enjoyed anywhere near the success they have if this issue were really a problem for the vast majority of folks.

With non-domain connected Windows 10 devices, even with all of the privacy settings off (which means they aren't sending data) there's no way to directly and easily disabled the diagnostic telemetry. The Basic level is the "most" private option. With a local account and all of the privacy settings off, there's still some information that Microsoft clearly says its collecting, from Microsoft's explanation of the Feedback & diagnostic privacy settings:

Basic information is data that is vital to the operation of Windows. This data helps keep Windows and apps running properly by letting Microsoft know the capabilities of your device, what is installed, and whether Windows is operating correctly. This option also turns on basic error reporting back to Microsoft. If you select this option, we’ll be able to provide updates to Windows (through Windows Update, including malicious software protection by the Malicious Software Removal Tool), but some apps and features may not work correctly or at all.
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http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/feedback-diagnostics-privacy-faq

No personally identifiable or user information is listed here where as the other two levels, Enhanced and Full clearly state that yes, some personal data is being sent back to Microsoft. The thing is, why would Microsoft all of sudden just start uploading files from hard drives, tell you that they aren't and actually explain at least to some degree what they are collecting, then offer like 20 privacy settings that are set to share tons of data that are set by default to do that, then just do it anyway? Because of course just selling personal information to 3rd parties that they say they aren't doing is so lucrative that just totally lying about it and crashing a multi-hundred billion dollar company is so worth it?

And that's the key here. I certainly am not saying that we should have trust in Microsoft. But if a company is going to purposely put itself at such risk over flat out lies for no remotely logical reason then I don't have trust in those making those claims without evidence.
 
"The issues with the Windows 8 UI was a visible issue."

But you claimed Win8 was the greatest thing since sliced bread when it came out!

Now you are claiming Win10 is and Win8 was crap.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
It does do a great job of not collecting data. Thanks for admitting that. Also, what categorical function does Linux not perform that Windows does?
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The function of Linux isn't the problem but it's 3rd party support. When it comes to 3rd party hardware and software support on the desktop, Windows is king by a mile because of it's market share. Indeed, even much of the popular software Linux folks like to promote like LibreOffice is available for Windows and even OS X.

Those who value complete privacy, lack of meaningful support and disconnected computing where everything is soiled and wants personal control over countless options will obviously gravitate to Linux. And that's not a slam on Linux. It's perfectly for average folks for basic stuff. Once the needs or desires grow beyond the basics, things get complicated quickly.
 
heatlesssun said:
The function of Linux isn't the problem but it's 3rd party support. When it comes to 3rd party hardware and software support on the desktop, Windows is king by a mile because of it's market share. Indeed, even much of the popular software Linux folks like to promote like LibreOffice is available for Windows and even OS X.

Those who value complete privacy, lack of meaningful support and disconnected computing where everything is soiled and wants personal control over countless options will obviously gravitate to Linux. And that's not a slam on Linux. It's perfectly for average folks for basic stuff. Once the needs or desires grow beyond the basics, things get complicated quickly.
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Ah, now _this_ is more like the Windows 8 heatlessun I remember. You know, I really missed watching you dance around answering a question directly when you knew you had been backed into a corner and kerbuffled by the shining brilliance of the world's best* CreepyUncleGoogle ever!

So yeah, about that functionality we were talking about that you just tried to avoid answering, I'm pretty sure what I just read was a, "Why yes, CreepyUncleGoogle, you are indeed correct and I am, as usual, wrong. I shall depart straight away with my head dangling downward in shame once more."

*Self nominated at least eleventy-ten times on the blog I pretend to write.
 
rezerekted said:
"The issues with the Windows 8 UI was a visible issue."

But you claimed Win8 was the greatest thing since sliced bread when it came out!

Now you are claiming Win10 is and Win8 was crap.
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I never said anything of the sort. I loved the hybrid UI concept of Windows 8 because I've long been using Windows tablets, well before the iPad and iOS. Being able to use a single OS and set of applications across form factors and input devices I believe is a good and useful thing. But the execution of Windows 8 in doing those things wasn't good enough. It was clear from the launch of the first public previews that the Start Screen and full screen elements were going to be a problem for desktop users. I didn't think it would be as big of a problem as it ended up being but it was obvious that it was a problem.
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
Ah, now _this_ is more like the Windows 8 heatlessun I remember. You know, I really missed watching you dance around answering a question directly when you knew you had been backed into a corner and kerbuffled by the shining brilliance of the world's best* CreepyUncleGoogle ever!

So yeah, about that functionality we were talking about that you just tried to avoid answering, I'm pretty sure what I just read was a, "Why yes, CreepyUncleGoogle, you are indeed correct and I am, as usual, wrong. I shall depart straight away with my head dangling downward in shame once more."

*Self nominated at least eleventy-ten times on the blog I pretend to write.
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I said point blank that the functionality of Linux is the problem but it's 3rd party support. Perfectly direct.
 
heatlesssun said:
I said point blank that the functionality of Linux is the problem but it's 3rd party support. Perfectly direct.
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Yes, yes, I saw that part, but it didn't include enough kowtowing to my Creepyness or my Uncleness (you don't have to do that to the Googleness, of course, but the other two parts...those are bloody friggin' important).
 
Ur_Mom said:
That's the kicker. You SHOULD be able to do anything you want with your PC and have not a single bit be used for any telemetry.

However, when you need to use a feature that could use telemetry (Cortana, search with extra features, etc.), then it should be optional.

Even when you disable all the supposed 'extra' features, it still sends information out. That's the big issue a lot of people are having. Many people don't care (myself included). But, if you disable it, it should be done and over with. With Windows 10, it's not. It's still sending data out... Fix that, and make the options easier to disable everything that needs a call back to MSFT, and people will be making less of a deal about it.
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What data are you seeing being sent out when Cortana and CEIP are disabled? I wouldn't mind investigating this a bit this weekend if I have time.

While I'd prefer if I could incrementally enable Cortana (e.g. "you can look at my calendar but not location" or "you can parse my registered email address and location but can't use my calendar"), that's not possible as far as I can tell. Using Cortana means enabling its access to everything then disable things you don't want it to track in Cortana's notebook. However, that's all opt-in and not forced on the user, you have the choice to eschew Cortana completely.
 
heatlesssun said:
This is the major credible source of Windows 10 "phoning home" to date with all privacy settings off and a local account: http://arstechnica.co.uk/informatio...ndows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/
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But that isn't very credible :-\ - he doesn't say what programs he's running, what settings he has enabled/disabled, etc.

Hopefully somebody has a better source for areas to investigate. That way, if I have time I'll spin up a clean install VM and see what I can see. If I could track down a bug in the privacy settings, I'd file it, but thus far that article and similar noise is the only stuff I've seen. Not much worth taking action on given the cost/benefit.
 
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