psy81
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Tell me something I don't know...
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Will you jump on 40xx Super Video cards or would you rather wait for 50xx series to come out?
- Thread starter vjhawk
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Tell me something I don't know...
freeagentt
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Liqq
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I went from an 8600k 16gb ram to a 13700k with 32gb ddr5 and the difference in that alone was quite large when paired with just a 3070FE. I'm kind of eyeballing a 4070ti Super or 4080FE but we'll see.
Frame gen is generally irrelevant for me as my motive for upgrading from a 3080 on my main would be to run DLAA and still have decent latency. E.g. for SP I want generally 50fps as 1% lows and 60+ as average due to input latency for FPS games. For FPS MP I generally want 240 or more with lowest possible latency. Frame gen does not reduce latency, it increases it.
They aren't called NGreedia for nothing.
AMD is pretty happy with this because they plan for RDNA4 to compete with the 5080 not the 5090.
They'll build a very profitable card and sell it for $100-200 less than the Nvidia equivalent and profit. Nvidia's markups make AMD's markups look TAME in comparison.
If Nvidia actually learned their lesson they would sell the 5080 at $999, same price as the 4080 Super.
It's the 5090 where they can really squeeze high end buyers and they will still go in for "Halo" card.
If the performance difference between the 5090 and 5080 is similar to the difference between the 4090 and 4080 then the 5090 is actually a good buy unless it is more than 60% more expensive than the 5080. Personally I was fine with the 4090 pricing as it had amazing performance increase over anything that came before it. It was all the other cards that were greedily priced as they had similar or worse performance per dollar vs the cards they replaced when at least 20% performance increase per dollar is more the norm on a new generation.
The 4090 will probably last 2 years longer than a 4080 and a 5080 will most likely be around 4090 performance, maybe a little faster. Lets say the 5080 ends up at 1200 and the 4080 was 1200. You could either pay 1600 for a 4090 and have great performance for 2 years then good performance for 2 years or get a 4080 and then a 4080 while you pay 1200+1200 and pray that you get a reasonable return on your 4080 card to get good performance for 4 years. You basically would need to get 800 back from your 4080 to break even, which is unlikely in when 5080 launches due to the super refresh at 1000 MSRP.
Mr. Bluntman
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Still worth it for the lower price if you have the budget and are out for new hardware. It's cheaper than a 3080 Ti at launch and much, much faster...
techpowerup has it estimated at 7.5% for now, which seem generous, 5.2% higher core count with a 1.6% higher boost clock sound like would end up closer to 5% than 7.5%, but it should be around those marks.
Sumanji
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I will acknowledge the existence of AMD in this post 
I have a 6900XT which still chews up everything I throw at it (slightly older titles at 1440p UW). Upgrading to the 4080/4090 or 7900 would be a waste for sure, so personally I'll be waiting for the next gen of cards, which will hopefully deliver a more tangible generational leap (particularly if I happen to upgrade to a 4K monitor).
I have a 6900XT which still chews up everything I throw at it (slightly older titles at 1440p UW). Upgrading to the 4080/4090 or 7900 would be a waste for sure, so personally I'll be waiting for the next gen of cards, which will hopefully deliver a more tangible generational leap (particularly if I happen to upgrade to a 4K monitor).
I agree - I hate Ngreedia as much as the next guy - but, there are some pros/benefits to the 40 series - that are improvements over the 30 series - especially the higher tier - just not at inflated prices - since Nvidia's gpus weren't selling as well as they hoped, they 'fixed' their 4070 and 4080 series and with a slight price reduction - are worth looking at now. They have been crippling their cards - lower vram - lowering other components to cheap out on manufacturing but still gouging the public - and fortunately, their sales weren't so great - now, they made some adjustments. That's how I see it.
When I 'bashed amd gpus' in this thread - I'm not promoting Nvidia but criticizing both for subpar products at an unreasonably high price - AMD gpus had a number of issues on release and I'm still reading on some issues with various AIBs - Powercolor, for instance - problems with thermals - due to chiplet design and/or the thermal compound - and more. If you compare reviews - for e.g. Techpowerup - TPU - the power consumption is very high when gaming, when playing a video and other uses - compared to Ada cards - and the temps can be high as well on some cards - requiring increasing fan speed and noise.
Nvidia made progress on their power/efficiency with the Ada cards - and it offers more features - not just CUDA - so, I would consider 40 series (not 4060 - anything higher) if the price 'was right.' Just my opinion, though.
I want AMD to 'catch up' - but, they keep dropping the ball.
kirbyrj
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Haha, but, you're the one with a 4070.
I didn't buy it because of my strange infatuation with Nvidia.
At the time I bought it, the 7800 XT had not launched yet. I also didn't particularly want to buy a previous generation 6900 or 6800 card which were in the same price range.
I've used AMD and Nvidia interchangeably over the past 5 years and haven't had any issues like you're describing. Quite frankly you just sound ridiculous. Ive been around long enough to appreciate that there are different options available.
Mr. Bluntman
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Well said. The fact that I just recently upgraded (and have someone willing to trade their 3080 Ti FE for my card (for just the purchase price difference and shipping on my end) will make it easy to hold out this generation. If I were to ever have an Ada Lovelace card in my system or collection, it'd be bought used from someone on FS/FT (or if worse comes to worse, eBay). I much rather give my cash to someone in the community here than give nVIDIA my money directly. A rando stranger a distant second.
And yeah, from the rumor mill RDNA 4 is going to focus only on the mid-range on down; high end parts are supposedly abandoned. Kind of like RDNA v1 and the 5700 XT...
I hope it's just bullshit rumors...
UnknownSouljer
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My tl;dr for the OP is:
It's dependent on whether or not I currently own Ampere/RDNA2 or a gen prior to that.
If I had a last gen card, then I would skip this gen including the Super series and wait for Blackwell. If not, then I would probably buy now (well perhaps after reviews are out anyway, though if you want a Founders Edition 4080S then you're going to likely have to queue up).
However in fairness I'd also be checking both sides of the fence for price to performance. If it's nVidia only forever, or whatever, then if an MSRP 4070TiS or 4080S can be obtained then that would be a reasonable upgrade from anything Turing or before.
Unfortunately Lovlace has had some of the worse price to performance of any generation. Especially when compared to Ampere which was stellar. And with more info coming out that MSRP Super cards will be limited in supply, it kinda doesn't really feel like nVidia has learned the full breadth of the lesson. Or they really aren't that concerned with selling a lot of cards, and they would rather squeeze out as much money per card. Whichever it is, it's bad for the consumer.
It's dependent on whether or not I currently own Ampere/RDNA2 or a gen prior to that.
If I had a last gen card, then I would skip this gen including the Super series and wait for Blackwell. If not, then I would probably buy now (well perhaps after reviews are out anyway, though if you want a Founders Edition 4080S then you're going to likely have to queue up).
However in fairness I'd also be checking both sides of the fence for price to performance. If it's nVidia only forever, or whatever, then if an MSRP 4070TiS or 4080S can be obtained then that would be a reasonable upgrade from anything Turing or before.
Unfortunately Lovlace has had some of the worse price to performance of any generation. Especially when compared to Ampere which was stellar. And with more info coming out that MSRP Super cards will be limited in supply, it kinda doesn't really feel like nVidia has learned the full breadth of the lesson. Or they really aren't that concerned with selling a lot of cards, and they would rather squeeze out as much money per card. Whichever it is, it's bad for the consumer.
Well I just saw a Daniel Owen video where he claims during an Nvidia media briefing the 4080 Super is only going to be 2-3% faster than the 4080.
So this video card is in no way going to provide any significant performance uplift over the original 4080 for people who can't get hold of a 4090. OOF.
The 4070 Super probably has the biggest gains compared to the card that it is replacing at around 15% but unfortunately suffers for being a 12GB card for $600.
The 4070 Ti Super had underwhelming performance gains as well being only about 5-6% faster than the 4070 Ti. It's only real gain is going up to 16GB VRAM.
The Super Series feels kind of underwhelming as a whole. What exactly is Nvidia doing with the Super series of cards?
So this video card is in no way going to provide any significant performance uplift over the original 4080 for people who can't get hold of a 4090. OOF.
The 4070 Super probably has the biggest gains compared to the card that it is replacing at around 15% but unfortunately suffers for being a 12GB card for $600.
The 4070 Ti Super had underwhelming performance gains as well being only about 5-6% faster than the 4070 Ti. It's only real gain is going up to 16GB VRAM.
The Super Series feels kind of underwhelming as a whole. What exactly is Nvidia doing with the Super series of cards?
UnknownSouljer
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I'm basically of the same opinions. This entire refresh is a waste of sand and is basically nVidia not giving a flip about the entire consumer segment.
I guess the only thing I can surmise is that they don't care at all about trying to sell volume and are content to be incredibly low volume at the highest prices they can squeeze out. It's obvious that most people would've preferred price cuts across the board rather than this Super series which is barely moving the needle.
A $450 4070, $650 4070Ti, and $850 4080 would've made a much bigger splash than these Super cards launching at the prices they are.
As a result, I think it makes more sense for most people to buy AMD cards just for price to performance. It's basically either that or enjoy being bent over a barrel. Either way we all lose.
Bought the 4070 Super and just picked it up today. It is currently sitting unopened while I wait for how the 4080S is reviewed Tuesday. I didn't have a GPU so needed one. I could afford the 4090, but just can't bring myself to pay for it. 4080 S at $1000 is about the most I am willing to spend considering I need to buy a new monitor also which will probably be dictated by the card I end up with here soon.
I didn't expect much from the refresh so I have that going for me. I do want to play with Stable Diffusion and that though, and everything I keep reading says stick to Nvidia for that if running Windows otherwise I would probably just get a 7900 XT or XTX.
I didn't expect much from the refresh so I have that going for me. I do want to play with Stable Diffusion and that though, and everything I keep reading says stick to Nvidia for that if running Windows otherwise I would probably just get a 7900 XT or XTX.
chameleoneel
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check bestbuy for open box 4070 ti Windforce. I can order one right now for $640 "like new" condition. 15 days to return, if there is something wrong with it or its not actually "like new" condition, which has happened to me once before.
I've kept a couple of 4070 I bought open box. sent back a 7900 XTX for not being "like new". It had screwdriver scratches on the back plate, from someone being a dummy with the GPU lock release. And another scratch on the front edge, where they likely banged it on the side of their case. I likely could have taken it to a store and received a discount from management. But the card was too big for my case anyway.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?_dyncharset=UTF-8&browsedCategory=pcmcat748300666861&id=pcat17071&iht=n&ks=960&list=y&qp=category_facet=GPUs / Video Graphics Cards~abcat0507002&sc=Global&st=pcmcat748300666861_categoryid$cat00000&type=page&usc=All Categories
I've kept a couple of 4070 I bought open box. sent back a 7900 XTX for not being "like new". It had screwdriver scratches on the back plate, from someone being a dummy with the GPU lock release. And another scratch on the front edge, where they likely banged it on the side of their case. I likely could have taken it to a store and received a discount from management. But the card was too big for my case anyway.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/searchpage.jsp?_dyncharset=UTF-8&browsedCategory=pcmcat748300666861&id=pcat17071&iht=n&ks=960&list=y&qp=category_facet=GPUs / Video Graphics Cards~abcat0507002&sc=Global&st=pcmcat748300666861_categoryid$cat00000&type=page&usc=All Categories
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UnknownSouljer
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That’s a great price. If all 4070 Ti were that priced this way it would’ve been a great gen.
The 4070 super is a 1440p card that received a decent bump while the 4070ti super gains quite a lot once you move to 4k over the non-super. E.g. the 4070 was underwhelming and the 4070 ti lacks memory bandwidth for higher resolutions. The 4070 ti super variant gains more over the 4070 ti when the resolution increases. E.g. looking at TPU graphs the 4070 is neck and neck with a 3080 at 1080p, but approx.. 10% slower at 4k due to limited memory bandwith. Similar for the 4070 ti which is 20% faster at 1080p but only around 14% faster than a 3080 at 4k despite having more vram. The 4070 ti super has approx.. the same gap to the 3080 in all resolutions so the memory bandwith bottleneck is fixed.
It is just as much about creating a new SKU at a lower price point as it is in making the cards what they should have been. Will be interesting to see where the 4080 super lands though. Most of it is a "new with lower prices" marketing. Basically you get more performance for less money so AMD seems slightly less tempting unless AMD lowers prices. The new prices are fine due to fairly high inflation in the last few years so it is much more in line with what the 40xx prices should have been from the start and 4080 super to 4090 performance gap has a much better correlation with the price gap.
Armenius
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A $200 price drop with a slight performance uplift seems like a good deal, to me. Obviously, if you already own a 4080 then you shouldn't be chomping at the bit to buy a SUPER.
The thing is that the 4080 probably should have started out at that price or lower. Nvidia is finally cutting prices because the 4080 sold very poorly. But they are giving it a 'new name' so they don't lose face with the price cut. Instead they get to boast "we're giving you what you wanted with a new card that's $200 cheaper!" In reality this is a refresh for a lame duck card that didn't sell very well. I'll wait for actual benchmark reviews but what we're hearing so far and what we've seen so far from the Super series doesn't fill me with confidence.
I think if the 4080 had come out at $799 and the 4070 Ti at $650 and the 4070 at $499 a lot more cards would have sold and people would be happier with the prices. Even the refresh Supers feel about $100-150 overpriced, especially compared to the Nvidia competition. The 7900XT can be found around $730, the 7800XT is $499 and the 7700 XT is only $440. Meanwhile Nvidia's 'new Super stack' is $999, $799, and $599. That already looks inflated and it makes the original prices look even worse.
MistaSparkul
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People love to whine about Nvidia's prices, yet they won't buy AMD even if they offer better price/performance lol.
ZeroBarrier
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Getting burned badly with atrocious drivers will do that to you. It's the main reason I won't touch an AMD GPU anytime soon, to be completely honest with you.
UnknownSouljer
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"People" will come around after a few gens as AMD continues to be consistent. I personally would have no problem buying AMD today or recommending them if dollar value matters at all. It's pretty hard to recommend any nVidia card <$1000 at this point. The biggest reasons to get nVidia is that they have ultimate performance at the top end which is undeniable. But you also pay for it. Any price below that and you just get a lot more performance for a good deal less.
MistaSparkul
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Hopefully that will be the case soon enough, I'm just saying historically I've seen people opt for an objectively worst nvidia card over an AMD card at a specific price point just because it was nvidia.
UnknownSouljer
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Sales data shows more people in 2023 leaned AMD's way. nVidia is still >80% of the market, but it was close to 90% before. That 7% is 10's if not 100's of millions in cards. A big reason the Super series exists at all is because it's a way to get the conversation back on nVidia and to stem the losses. They certainly don't want to seed another 7% to AMD in 2024. 14% over two years is pretty significant.
If AMD stays consistent and ever gets to the point of having around 35-40% of the market, at that point nVidia will "have to" (no, we "choose to!") be price competitive again, because it will be clear that name brand recognition alone won't be enough to compete with. I think they would "choose to" be price competitive before then, I just think at 35%, there isn't a choice. It's no longer about just "stemming losses" it's that you have a real competitor that will keep taking hunks out of you if you don't respond.
And at that point we all will finally win because we won't have stupid pricing like we have had for Lovelace. I don't expect to buy a top tier card for $400 ever again (all the way back to the 4600 days... Voodoo2's were $300? Maaaaan). But I think we would all agree that a "previously called" 80 class card shouldn't be more than $800 at launch. 70 at $600. And their performative but "lower end" card being $400. With some $200-$300 card below that. 90/Titan cards is a whole other topic, still based on whether competition exists or not. But if it still ends up being 100% more performance, then frankly it still would be worth a $1500 price for that class of buyer.
Prices and numbers above contingent on nVidia not intentionally trying to obfuscate performance levels like they did this gen. Which also AMD did by the way, and I'm also non plussed about that. It was a dumb way that AMD tried to imitate nVidia. I hope they both learned their lesson because their own naming has bitten them both in the ass, making it harder for them to differentiate their own cards to general consumers, which therefore makes it harder to sell them.
tl;dr - it’s changing now. But will take more time.
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Armenius
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I'll happily consider an AMD card when they finally catch up to NVIDIA in ray tracing performance. They're still a generation behind.
UnknownSouljer
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RT isn't going to be the major driving factor of games period for another 10 years until the time the average user (which has mid to low hardware) can actually play heavy RT loads AND consoles can also drive it. So if you want to pay a 20% premium to get a minor FPS increase in the majority of games (at best) or a major increase in outliers that come once a year at most, then that's up to you. But personally I would say for budget gamers that's a bad usage of funds. The difference in price between a 7800XT and 4070 Super could be used for literally any other component in the system. In a $1000 build, that $100+ is significant. And I would say your "flat no", would be bad advice for those trying to actually stretch their dollars when they're not going to have good RT performance in that class of cards either way.
By the time it matters we'll be another 2 hardware generations deep. Again, if you're a premium buyer on a 1000+ video card, sure. Everyone else you're compromising your RT settings regardless of if you're on nVidia or AMD. DLSS or no DLSS.
For me at least, ray tracing is a very meaningful change in gaming enjoyment. Cyberpunk, Metro Exodus etc. I do fall into that category re: $1000USD budget for video card, but I would only consider NVDA at this point for that reason. Especially with the new QD-OLED HDR displays. Visual fidelity on those combined with ray tracing is so good.
Well 4080 Super benchmarks are now out. This comes from a reviewer who purchased the card 'independently' so doesn't have to obey the embargo.
And yup the 4080 Super BARELY beats out the regular 4080. It looks like it wins by 1-2% only.
article: https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-...3dmark-similar-gaming-performance-to-rtx-4080
Does this change your mind about the 4080 Super? Honestly I don't even know how Nvidia DARES to call this a Super model! 1-2% faster is not even worthy of a new badge.
It's only real selling point is you get 4080 level performance for $200 less. This is just a straight up price cut from the insane $1200 price point. Is this why they extended the embargo by 1 day? Nvidia wanted people buying the 4080 super blindly?
I don't think reviewers here in the West will give it glowing praise once they benchmark it and see what it can actually do.
And yup the 4080 Super BARELY beats out the regular 4080. It looks like it wins by 1-2% only.
article: https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-...3dmark-similar-gaming-performance-to-rtx-4080
Does this change your mind about the 4080 Super? Honestly I don't even know how Nvidia DARES to call this a Super model! 1-2% faster is not even worthy of a new badge.
It's only real selling point is you get 4080 level performance for $200 less. This is just a straight up price cut from the insane $1200 price point. Is this why they extended the embargo by 1 day? Nvidia wanted people buying the 4080 super blindly?
I don't think reviewers here in the West will give it glowing praise once they benchmark it and see what it can actually do.
The buyer had more often slower than faster performance with the super, maybe new drivers will move it a bit, could just be they are so close that regular benchmark noise did it, but 1% low are something much lower with the super (87 down to 79)
To note the 4080 is an overclocked model, which could the reason and not an driver issue.
Waited until mid-cycle to buy a 4090 - scooped one up over the summer when prices briefly dipped below $1500. I don't plan on upgrading until the 60XX series, unless games become significantly more demanding. If I can play AAA games at 4K/60 with all the goodies, I'm happy. Currently playing through Phantom Liberty with path tracing on and it's a blast.
My CPU is a gen behind, so I might upgrade that when AMD drops new CPUs.
My CPU is a gen behind, so I might upgrade that when AMD drops new CPUs.
GoldenTiger
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No, it was because of shipping delays for some reviewers who only got the card yesterday. Also no one would have been buying blindly anyways, we all knew from the spec bump it would be close to identical. It always was mainly a juicy price cut.
AMD gpus are good for gaming - not much else - well, when the performance difference is so scaled in the Nvidia direction - for anything not gaming - I am using the productivity field for e.g. - GPGPU - or Blender and video editing - 2 examples.
Secondly, AMD gpus - the power consumption and temperatures are way higher/ hotter, respectively - just compare the current generation - and the higher tier/flagship cards - I know this difference most ppl don't care about - but, ppl with high hydro rates might care a little - and it's still something to point out - generally, although point number above is more important/significant.
I was hoping the 'reduced' price of the 4080 Super would result in slashed prices for the vanilla 4080 - at least, in my country. What does Nvidia/ do retailers typically do in this situation? Let the gpus sit on the shelves? They are mostly online vendors that have some in stock (in my country) - the local stores didn't have any 4080s or 4090s in stock last time.
Yeah, the performance increase is negligible - looking bad, so far. Doesn't bode well for me trying to find used cards - I just hope the 4080 non-Super gets a discount now. :-/
I just ordered the 4080 Super (ASUS TUF OC edition)...not the best upgrade for my 3080 but I want to play with ray-tracing maxed out natively (without DLSS)...I also want to play Cyberpunk 2077 and Alan Wake 2 with path tracing (with DLSS enabled of course)
Yup I got the MSI 4080 Super from Best Buy. I tried to put the ASUS TUF model in cart on Newegg but couldn't complete the checkout process because I got the "out of stock" message.
Check the 4080 Super New owner thread if you want to share your buying experience this morning.
the TUF OC version still shows as being in stock on Newegg...the standard TUF version looks sold out
Had the 4080 Super FE in my cart at Best Buy but then they kept reporting network errors when trying to process my payment. I tried switching to store pickup and then it was gone so much for a 10 minute hold. Tried the Asus Tuf at Newegg, but even though it said in stock it kept removing it from my cart.
Luckily I had jumped in line and stayed at Nvidia even though it was thousands deep. It went pretty quick and I was able to get one there. BB will probably keep getting stock and would have preferred there, but oh well. I wonder how long Nvidia will take. BB would have been Friday for delivery or Saturday store pickup.
Luckily I had jumped in line and stayed at Nvidia even though it was thousands deep. It went pretty quick and I was able to get one there. BB will probably keep getting stock and would have preferred there, but oh well. I wonder how long Nvidia will take. BB would have been Friday for delivery or Saturday store pickup.