Why Windows 8 Start Menu's Absence is Irrelevant

DeathPrincess said:
There isn't really much positive for a Metro application.
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Metro apps are built with the same tools and languages that Windows and web developers have used for years, yes there's a lot different, but there's also a lot that's very familiar.

And even if Windows 8 is a failure like Vista, there's going to millions and millions of people looking for slick Metro apps for their PCs, they've seen the tired old gray keyboard and mouse stuff for 20 years.
 
-Sn1PeR- said:
What's the easiest way to shutdown windows 8?

What I've been doing is windows+c to open the "charms" menu, then clicking settings, then power, then shutdown. Is there a more efficient way?
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Tawnos said:
Press the power button
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Damn beat me to it, Tawnos. But yea press the power button.

As I've said before, I'll get Windows 8 when I buy a Surface Pro. I'm keeping my Windows 7, not because I don't like Windows 8, but because I like Windows 7 more and I am too lazy to upgrade until at least SP1.
 
heatlesssun said:
Metro apps are built with the same tools and languages that Windows and web developers have used for years, yes there's a lot different, but there's also a lot that's very familiar.

And even if Windows 8 is a failure like Vista, there's going to millions and millions of people looking for slick Metro apps for their PCs, they've seen the tired old gray keyboard and mouse stuff for 20 years.
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My programs haven't been tired old grey stuff in years. Metro apps aren't any more slick then any modern program. That is all aesthetic stuff and pure developer decision.

Support Win 8 for things that are unique too it, not for things that have nothing to do with it.
 
DeathPrincess said:
Who in their right mind would bother making a Metro application? :confused:
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Developers that are already making iOS and Android apps that can easily recompile them with C and/or ARM-whatever it uses. To Win8 devices, being it a PC or a tablet since apps can run on both (sometimes, it says so in the app description.) You know, to make money.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
My programs haven't been tired old grey stuff in years. Metro apps aren't any more slick then any modern program. That is all aesthetic stuff and pure developer decision.

Support Win 8 for things that are unique too it, not for things that have nothing to do with it.
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Metro is a lighter weight UI than the traditional desktop. It is faster and easier to create things that focus on content and not chrome. You mention that part of the problem with Metro is that it's different, well that's a good thing in a way because it let's developers rethink the same things they've been doing over and over and over for 20 years.
 
Numan said:
Developers that are already making iOS and Android apps that can easily recompile them with C and/or ARM-whatever it uses.
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I'm not sure I follow. You cannot simply recompile an iOS or Android app and have them work in Metro. Not only are there programming language obstacles, but the APIs are different and the UIs are drastically different.

There are certainly cross-compiler frameworks that will eventually support cross-compilation to WinRT (or perhaps already support it), but porting an iOS or Android app by hand, particularly if they're written in Objective-C or Java, entails a fair to significant amount of effort.
 
heatlesssun said:
Metro is a lighter weight UI than the traditional desktop. It is faster and easier to create things that focus on content and not chrome. You mention that part of the problem with Metro is that it's different, well that's a good thing in a way because it let's developers rethink the same things they've been doing over and over and over for 20 years.
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Look, I am not looking to continue this debate but don't post outright bs. It isn't any faster or easier to create things for Win 8 than any other platform. The UI has absolutely nothing to do with it as most decent programs the UI doesn't even play a factor as it gets backgrounded. It affects raw cpu performance and nothing more. This is a PC enthusiast site, you had to know someone what going to call bs on that.
 
Chimel said:
I never heard of such a stupid argument for Win95, so it must not have been a very vocal one, or a very important one, and in any case, it never was a problem to me. But there is a whole lot of a difference between something that eats a sizable chunk of space in a 640x480 monitor, and a flashy full screen with solid colors in a radically different graphic user interface.{/QUOTE]

That's my point, it is a stupid argument. If you can't live without your video playing in the background for the whole second or two to click a giant icon then you have other issues then UIs.

Chimel said:
It's not just about the full screen part, but also the feeling you get about this hybrid mutant that is Windows 8 when you constantly switch between the 2 interfaces. Running all apps, including legacy apps, from Metro would have been much better in that respect, although it would be worse for multitasking and other aspects for non-touch users. It just doesn't feel like a finished product that self-asserts itself and can handle every touch and non-touch user in the same standard fashion. If Windows 8 does not believe in itself, why should I support it?
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ARM Win8 is stuck with Metro only. x86 has Metro and Desktop. They live side by side. MS was smart enough to realize that the Desktop just does not work with touch and a pure new UI with no backwards compatibility would be insane on the Desktop. Chances are you will 'live' in the Desktop seeing that's what most of us have done since Win95. Metro is an addition as I see it. People act as if they MUST multitask loads of Metro apps, Desktop apps and MUST CONSTANTLY flip to them all. This is hyperbole BS. If you are constantly flipping programs you will be in the Desktop as you have always done.

People act since there is an addition of being able to run Metro apps that they MUST ALWAYS USE THEM in place of x86 apps. Again, BS. I don't use the Video app, I use Media Player Classic to watch some video file. I don't use Metro IE10 as my sole browser, I bounce between Firefox and Chrome usually. I've set these up as the defaults. It's almost as if everybody here will install the stock driver CD on that old graphics card and all of that bloatware; nobody here on this site does that as we go grab the latest stable drivers and avoid the bloat. Yet lots have this behavior towards the OS.
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wonderfield said:
I'm not sure I follow. You cannot simply recompile an iOS or Android app and have them work in Metro. Not only are there programming language obstacles, but the APIs are different and the UIs are drastically different.

There are certainly cross-compiler frameworks that will eventually support cross-compilation to WinRT (or perhaps already support it), but porting an iOS or Android app by hand, particularly if they're written in Objective-C or Java, entails a fair to significant amount of effort.
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Ok, recompile was a poor choice of words.
 
XamediX said:
Damn beat me to it, Tawnos. But yea press the power button.

As I've said before, I'll get Windows 8 when I buy a Surface Pro. I'm keeping my Windows 7, not because I don't like Windows 8, but because I like Windows 7 more and I am too lazy to upgrade until at least SP1.
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Another way to get at the Windows 8 shutdown is Windows + i as it opens up the management charm window with the reset/shutdown options.
 
Tawnos said:
Even the hardware button has been a "soft button" since at least 98SE. Long past the days of AT power supplies where the power button was a hard switch that actually turned on or off the power.
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Oh yea I knew about it then too but I didn't start taking advantage if it till xp.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Look, I am not looking to continue this debate but don't post outright bs. It isn't any faster or easier to create things for Win 8 than any other platform. The UI has absolutely nothing to do with it as most decent programs the UI doesn't even play a factor as it gets backgrounded. It affects raw cpu performance and nothing more. This is a PC enthusiast site, you had to know someone what going to call bs on that.
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I was specially refereeing to common Windows development tools. And yes, Metro is a lighter weight UI by design, it's heavily geared towards front-end presentation and speed in the foreground.
 
i shouldnt have to click a metro to login to MY DESKTOP................just lost a customer foolz!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Some people compare the Start Screen change to Vista but remember that none of the Vista changes went away with Windows 7. Rough edges were smoothed, so to speak, but Microsoft kept barreling forward with the changes. It was mention that the same is true for the Office ribbon (which was expanded into other products, even SharePoint 2010).

I have little doubt that I will have to learn it eventually, maybe even get used to it to the point that Windows 7's Start menu seems "old".

I disagree that the Start menu has stayed the same since Windows 95. The changes have been gradual (re-orderable to two-paned start menu to common folders start menu to built-in search). And I don't think this new Start screen is as revolutionary as suggested either. It is still the same old thinking at Microsoft. It is a full screened start menu with different sized, group-able icons. Tiles are new. I don't view it as a revolutionary, new paradigm as much an evolution on the existing paradigm, as suggested by proponents say things like "I can do everything in the Start Screen that I could do in the Start menu".

I am skeptical that the same general population of users who do not currently reorganize and maintain their Start menu will be any more likely to maintain and group their Start screen. Programmers will still litter the Start screen with bits that the user doesn't necessarily need to see. I think ArsTechnica commented about the number of icons that get placed by the Office 2013 beta, and this is a program by Microsoft, who is supposed to be setting the example. There will no doubt be uninstall icons, settings icons, readme icons, etc.

At best, it is a lateral change. I believe it is a trade off with desktop/traditional laptop giving way to greater tablet accessibility.
 
fightingfi said:
i shouldnt have to click a metro to login to MY DESKTOP................just lost a customer foolz!!!!!!!!!!!
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Then don't, start an desktop app that you always run like a web browser. People complain about having to click on a tile to go to the desktop but the thing that most people do is simply go there to run programs. You can do that from the Start Screen without having to explicitly go to the desktop.
 
ccman said:
At best, it is a lateral change. I believe it is a trade off with desktop/traditional laptop giving way to greater tablet accessibility.
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Whatever is lost on the desktop by the Start Screen, and from my perspective it's very little and even a little gain in some ways, is more than made up by the gains on tablets.
 
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