Why People Pirate Video Games

[CreepyUncleGoogle]

It's easier to put up with trolls than religious zealots.

Aww, thanks! (I think ) But I don't think Red Birdie is a zealot at all. I mean sure he's got an opinion and is now defending it since its come under fire, but I think we all do that when a topic comes up that pokes one of our buttons.

Then again, I'm kinda biased because I think he's got a good sense of humor.

*fist bump right back*
I know, right, and I wasn't even talking to him or trying!

rf: "Hey, misfitsfiend, I found this cross and wanted you to take a look at..."
misfit: "HHHSSSSSSSS, GET IT AWAY, YOU VILE HUMAN!!!! PERMA-BLOCK! PERMAAA-BLOCK!!!1"

http://www.fvza.org/images/crossdracula.jpg

Bwa ha ha! That's like spot on! Not to continue being off topic, but I do think people aren't willing enough to at least hear someone else out on matters of faith and belief. We've sorta stigmatized talking about it which is partly because people probably need to look past it to work together, but also because people get really sensitive about it. It's just like boobs though, if you see them enough (or talk about religion enough) it's not a big deal. Then again, forums are different and there should be no boobs or religion in conversation since it's the Internet.

But back on track, I think piracy isn't always a matter of morals. I'm personally against it, but then again, I've done it too because I didn't want to spend money to try out a game. I wouldn't even think of doing it now, but when I was a CreepyNephewGoogle, I didn't think much about all the work the people who made a game put into it and how it didn't seem fair to not reward them for their efforts until after I tried to sell stuff of my own and thought I should get paid for it too.

 

[kbrickley]

This. Also, do people really think criticizing someone as immoral based on their own moral principles is going to deter them from doing those immoral things? Either they don't see it as immoral themselves, or they don't give a fuck. You're not gonna persuade most people on game piracy, religion, etc.with that argument.

Whether we convert someone on Piracy or not, there are valid discussions to have ... I agree that the looter mentality is usually difficult to break someone out of ... you either respect other people (and the work they do) enough to pay for it (so they can continue to provide services for you), or you disrespect or steal it (and then wonder why some of the best game companies go under or best programmers leave the industry) ... whether you convert the looter or not, one should never complacently accept that mentality, rationalize it, or encourage it in others

“So you think that money is the root of all evil? [...] Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?” ― Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

 

[djc5166]

Well, you have your wish granted.
The world is a great place and I'm sure we will have lots more threads about topics like this.

But have fun trying to "figure out" why no one has any of those silly things like "morals" or "character", and why they don't care about anyone or anything since they aren't "held accountable".
I guess it's just a big mystery.

If you're implying that someone 'having religion' is an absolute perquisite for leading 'moral' life, I have a feeling most people would disagree with that statement.

 

[Glueman]

It's been a long time since I've pirated a game, but when I was young and broke I never thought twice. It wasn't about morality, it was I'm bored and it's only a few clicks away. Hell most of the time just the sense of accomplishment from getting a bad copy to run was more enjoyable then the game I would quickly tire of.

How many people on this forum beating their chests have truly never downloaded/streamed a movie, music, game, program, sporting event? My guess would be only those that are extremely well off or from a generation prior to the existence of the internet.

 

[Red Falcon]

Aww, thanks! (I think ) But I don't think Red Birdie is a zealot at all. I mean sure he's got an opinion and is now defending it since its come under fire, but I think we all do that when a topic comes up that pokes one of our buttons.

Then again, I'm kinda biased because I think he's got a good sense of humor.

Senpai finally noticed me!

It's just like boobs though, if you see them enough (or talk about religion enough) it's not a big deal. Then again, forums are different and there should be no boobs or religion in conversation since it's the Internet.

[H]ard|Forum: 1
Pirates: 0

 

[CreepyUncleGoogle]

Senpai finally noticed me!

http://33.media.tumblr.com/dac0a2156ef41b0c61e47e0a99e4b631/tumblr_ndbos8REDU1qhccbco2_400.gif

That's it, on to the ignore list you go!

Well, how about both?
Ask and YE SHALL RECEIVE!!!

http://paulrobertson.mechafetus.com/bbc2011d.gif


[H]ard|Forum: 1
Pirates: 0

My eyes and brain will never be the same again! And why do they have to be glossy boobs? No, better yet, I don't wanna know. I'll be over here in the corner hiding under a blanket.

 

[nilepez]

I haven't been here for 10+ years.
I will make sure to do the same for you, though.



What did I say that was wrong or inflammatory?
The mention of religion?

I was only commenting on his ignoring Crazy Uncle Google (mistakenly referred to as Scrooge). I have no recollection of what you've posted prior to this thread....Ducman is another story.

 

[nilepez]

I think the way publishers are making out on DLC and not giving people content that used to be part of a game purchase is the issue these days. Why should i pay for your grab ass unfinished game when you want to nickel and dime me for a few hours of extra content you took from the main game.

I would pirate but now my income allows me to pay for what i want and lately its not been from anything new. I did pirate alot back in the day. I will say for music that i will check out a cd or two then go back and buy the good cds if its worth it.Its like a full feature demo witch you dont see anymore.

How is DLC different from things like Wing Commander's Secret Missions Disks/Special Ops Disks? Is it different from Links having lots of Golf Courses available for a price? What about the baseball games that use to sell extra ball parks and/or different players?

I don't game as much as I used to, but conceptually, it sounds quite similar. What's more, if you wait, the GOY version will eventually come out...if you wait longer, it'll cost 5 or 10 bucks on Steam.

 

[Red Falcon]

I was only commenting on his ignoring Crazy Uncle Google (mistakenly referred to as Scrooge). I have no recollection of what you've posted prior to this thread....Ducman is another story.

Lots of cats, anime, and Microsoft banter.
Creepy can tell you allllll about the FINAL BATTLE of 2012.

Ah, those were good times.

 

[nilepez]

Not all companies approach DLC the same way ... although some do clearly remove content, many (if not most) use it as a way to expand and customize a game more to your liking. Game prices have essentially been static for the last 15-20 years (few other commodities have done that). Well handled DLC provides an acceptable way for companies to monetize a game over time

For example, in the old days (80s and 90s) you got a base game that was rarely expanded except for maybe 1 or 2 expansions (separate purchase) ... this could set you back $30-50 for a base game and $10-30 for each expansion ... companies usually sold a small fraction of the original game sales in the expansion sales ... if a developer couldn't include a feature in the original game or in the expansion it waited for the sequel or it was lost forever

In the modern environment a company can allow modifications to the game (usually that affect balance) to be optional purchases ... so you can have a base game, like Oblivion, with additions like a Mage Tower or Assassin's Hideout ... they are hardly necessary to complete the game and many of their features make difficult items easier to obtain but they are also completely optional purchases ... Farcry DLC and Fallout DLC was similar in nature ... since the base game price has been fixed in the $50-60 range for so long, the only method the developer has to try and obtain extra revenue and/or profit is to create these items ... since many games don't warrant an expansion, the DLC options let them expand it without the overhead of developing a full out expansion

I'd swear that less than 20 years ago games were typically $39.99 (though MSRP may have been 49.99). Then again, while trying to prove that I ran across a review for half life that put the MSRP at close to 80 bucks (and I know I haven't paid that much for a game since Sierra Online's Time Zone with something like 12 double sided diskettes)

 

[kbrickley]

I'd swear that less than 20 years ago games were typically $39.99 (though MSRP may have been 49.99). Then again, while trying to prove that I ran across a review for half life that put the MSRP at close to 80 bucks (and I know I haven't paid that much for a game since Sierra Online's Time Zone with something like 12 double sided diskettes)

Since Diablo 2 launched in the early 2000's the AAA games have been in the $60 range (MSRP) and they really haven't changed much (for PC games) ... console games have climbed slightly in the $70 range but the movement has been a lot less than inflation and labor costs

 

[Nytegard]

I'd swear that less than 20 years ago games were typically $39.99 (though MSRP may have been 49.99). Then again, while trying to prove that I ran across a review for half life that put the MSRP at close to 80 bucks (and I know I haven't paid that much for a game since Sierra Online's Time Zone with something like 12 double sided diskettes)

It really depends on the game. I own a ton of games, many still with stickers. For big name PC games, $40 is about right. (Console games on the other hand ranged from $50-60.) Back in the 1980s, it was about $30.

There are exceptions. Collectors editions tend to be more expensive. A few console games range from $70-$100, especially during the cart era.

 

[nilepez]

It really depends on the game. I own a ton of games, many still with stickers. For big name PC games, $40 is about right. (Console games on the other hand ranged from $50-60.) Back in the 1980s, it was about $30.

There are exceptions. Collectors editions tend to be more expensive. A few console games range from $70-$100, especially during the cart era.

Early 80's games were often generally 40-80. I believe Ultima (in the plastic bag) was 40. Same with Ultima 2 (sierra online) and 3. Wizardry too. I can't remember what Deadline Cost...might have a price tag on it still.

As I recall, Ultima VI was the same price.
I don't think I have the price tags on many games anymore

I also just looked at some games sitting around here...GTA IV 49.99 (not that I paid that for it) and Crysis was $39.99...both from Best Buy.

 

[qbanb8582]

I used to pirate games and movies all the time. I didn't have much money then so that was the only way I could play them. Now that is not the case anymore.

Now when it comes to the retro stuff its different. You can judge me all you want on this one. For many titles I'm going to download the ROM and play them on emulator where I can make it look decent on my HDTV. If I get it used on ebay or download the rom none of that money goes to the makers anyways. If there is an HD remaster of that game, I'll buy it with no problem. I had the Wind Waker ROM and once the Wind Waker HD was announced I went out and bought it.

 

[Motley]

Holy crap, this thread sure went down the deepend. (expected I guess)

 

[Nytegard]

Early 80's games were often generally 40-80. I believe Ultima (in the plastic bag) was 40. Same with Ultima 2 (sierra online) and 3. Wizardry too. I can't remember what Deadline Cost...might have a price tag on it still.

As I recall, Ultima VI was the same price.
I don't think I have the price tags on many games anymore

I also just looked at some games sitting around here...GTA IV 49.99 (not that I paid that for it) and Crysis was $39.99...both from Best Buy.

A little later, I can check. I have a copy of every Infocom game and pre-1995 Sierra game (sans Escape From Mount Drash), most with original price stickers. (I also have every Sir-Tech game and Origin game. (I collect old computer games and have more vastly more than is healthy).

You also have to remember that the Ultima games and Infocom games came with Feelies. Now, we call games with more than a manual, collectors editions...

 

[MisterHipster]

Lot of whiny fools in this thread. Accept and understand pirating as a part of reality, or get out. Drugs too while you are at it.

 

[MisterHipster]

When I was young and couldn't afford a game, guess what I did? I didn't play that game. Plain and simple. I made do with the games that I did have, and I understood that everything has a price, and everything has a consequence, perceived or not. If I couldn't afford it, that was the end of the story.

What's up with this unfounded sense of entitlement?

This person was stupid as a kid, and this is their cover-up. lol

ahaha

 

[McFry]

Laughable. You can't steal labor. Labor that has already been compensated for is already paid for.
If someone lets you borrow a dvd and you watch it, are you obligated to pay the studios for that viewing?
Which game developer companies have went under due to piracy? None? Sounds to me like making games is profitable and they're not having a problem making money. Arguing that a 9 year old kid without a job pirates and should pay for the game is stupid. It's the same people who believe that if someone makes 25$ selling something on ebay that they should claim it as income and be taxed on it on their return.

You cant steal labor? So if your employer doesnt pay you this Friday you would be totally OK with that?

And what the hell is "labor that has already been compensated for"? Then you are stealing from the person who paid the person who did the work. If you agree to let someone mow your lawn and then you dont pay him because he works for some big lawn care company, sure he gets paid anyway but the lawn care company doesnt. LoL you're a moron if you think this is ok.

Games are still profitable due to piracy, so what? I could steal an entire shopping cart full of groceries every day of the week and the grocery store would still be profitable.

Arguing that a 9 year old kid should pay for games is stupid? like seriously what fucking planet do you people live on. God one day you're going to be allowed to vote, and thats scary. I guess 9 year olds shouldnt have to pay for anything right. I mean even the xbox they are playing their pirated games on should be donated by the government or something eh?

 

[Red Falcon]

My eyes and brain will never be the same again! And why do they have to be glossy boobs? No, better yet, I don't wanna know. I'll be over here in the corner hiding under a blanket.

This will make things better!

 

[Trepidati0n]

People pirate..because they feel the game is their right and will rationalize it. I didn't really get it until I started playing "freemium" games on my tablet. Most "AAA" titles allow you to get 90%+ of the game for ZERO $ and your pace of advancement isn't that bad. But yet, people who don't pay one damn cent are the people bitch and bitch and bitch how the company who made the game is somehow robbing them of content that they somehow deserve. Oh well...what do you expect.

 

[Ur_Mom]

People pirate..because they feel the game is their right and will rationalize it. I didn't really get it until I started playing "freemium" games on my tablet. Most "AAA" titles allow you to get 90%+ of the game for ZERO $ and your pace of advancement isn't that bad. But yet, people who don't pay one damn cent are the people bitch and bitch and bitch how the company who made the game is somehow robbing them of content that they somehow deserve. Oh well...what do you expect.

Well, in that case, it's offered for free. But, you get to a certain point and it's NOT free. I equate that to false advertising. Free to play with pay to get certain items or speed things up is fine. But, hitting a pay wall where you can't advance anymore? That's crap. If that was the case, charge for it to begin with or tell users that the first 5 levels are free (Shareware style).

 

[rive22]

My thoughts exactly,

 

[yourgrandma]

When I was a kid we didn't pirate games - it was all about Shareware.

If you didn't want to take a day downloading the shareware version of the game from some BBS then you went to a local store where you could get the physical copy for less than a buck. If you really liked the game then you'd work your butt off mowing lawns and cleaning gutters for the 20$-40$ game.

And of course... that was when the "demo" version was nearly 1/3rd of the entire game (one "chapter" out of three or whatnot).

We'd "borrow" games too from friends, but we'd usually end up buying our own copy so we could play online. Cracking games came into play when we started to get annoying when your CD's started to wear out or you got tired of always having to have the CD's/Floppy inserted (or swapping them out)

Now... it's all about Steam sales and used console games.

I never had internet at the time and all the shareware i bought were from $5 to $15. It's true shareware had a good amount of content from the game itself but i don't think the idea of paying for a 'demo' would go over too well now days.

 

[nilepez]

A little later, I can check. I have a copy of every Infocom game and pre-1995 Sierra game (sans Escape From Mount Drash), most with original price stickers. (I also have every Sir-Tech game and Origin game. (I collect old computer games and have more vastly more than is healthy).

You also have to remember that the Ultima games and Infocom games came with Feelies. Now, we call games with more than a manual, collectors editions...

True, but I think the ultima games in the 90's all did too (my last ultima was VI and it came with a map). Bottom line is I distinctly recall prices on games dropping for that time frame.

No doubt that cloth maps don't come with standard games. I think the original Everquest came with a cloth map, but I suppose there could have been a deluxe version, but I don't think so.

 

[nilepez]

Arguing that a 9 year old kid should pay for games is stupid? like seriously what fucking planet do you people live on. God one day you're going to be allowed to vote, and thats scary. I guess 9 year olds shouldnt have to pay for anything right. I mean even the xbox they are playing their pirated games on should be donated by the government or something eh?

Virtually everyone on here has been eligible to vote for years. And honestly, the entire the youth will destroy society was played out 40 years ago. My grandfather is dead, and you're too young to write like you're 100 years old.

 

[Trimlock]

When I was younger and pirating was a thing, I did it purely to see if I could get it to work and how it worked. I never downloaded a game I couldn't afford and only bought the game titles I thought were interesting.

I did have to "pirate" a game I had previously purchased, because the DRM on it was so bad I was forced to download a version that didn't have the DRM just so it would run on my PC.

 

[Trimlock]

I should clarify, I downloaded titles I already had when I was younger. That was before Torrents really took off.

 

[suiken_2mieu]

When I was in high school and could only barely afford the computer I was using, I pirated a lot, but when I finally got a job with steady income I stopped pirating all together.

 

[Aaron_ATX]

Originally started as a 13 year old kid and a 2400 baud modem....the habit decreased as time marched along another 25 years and I have more cash in my pocket....

The lack of oldschool style "demo" releases has caused many a torrent to decide what I think about the software.... majority of which very glad not to have paid full (or any) price for...

 

[CreepyUncleGoogle]

I was only commenting on his ignoring Crazy Uncle Google (mistakenly referred to as Scrooge). I have no recollection of what you've posted prior to this thread....Ducman is another story.

Wow, I didn't even know you were talking about me. I was like, huh...why the duck?

Lots of cats, anime, and Microsoft banter.
Creepy can tell you allllll about the FINAL BATTLE of 2012.

Ah, those were good times.

The Windows 8 launch was an amazing time in the history of [H]'s forum. And I still feel bad about heatlesssun's blood pressure from all of that.

This will make things better!

http://loyalkng.com/wp-content/uplo...y-garfield-long-cat-azumanga-daioh-meowth.jpg

Yay, it's like all of the best cats ever made are being barfed up by Garfield! Who could ask for more? I feel lots better now, thanks.

 

[M76]

When I was young pirating was the only way you'd even see a game. Unless your parents were loaded, I mean LOADED. You'd have to save up your allowance for months to be able to afford even a pirated copy of a game. A retail game would cost about 2-3 weeks of salary. Yes I mean the average salary of a fully employed adult. A pirated game was about a third of the price. Welcome to the former eastern block.

No gaming is not a right, but equal living for people should be a right. Why does the rich kid next door get everything, and why can't I? What did I do wrong? Why is he better than me? Those are the things going trough a kid's mind. It's unhealthy, it can break you.

 

[fuzzylogik]

i;m sure if publishers had their way the used console game market would be done away with.

in fact IIRC EA had cd keys on some of their console games.

Yup.

forgot that we'd rent games too. 5$ to play a game for a week almost non-stop with a friend during the summer? might take two rents, but usually would have a game beat by then.

 

[fuzzylogik]

I never had internet at the time and all the shareware i bought were from $5 to $15. It's true shareware had a good amount of content from the game itself but i don't think the idea of paying for a 'demo' would go over too well now days.

Oof... yeah that's a ripoff. $5-$15 back then would be waay over priced for a physical copy of shareware. Place in town just charged what they did to cover the cost of the medium plus a little extra. Was pretty close to one of the schools and had a pretty constant stream of kids going there.

man that was a long time ago.

 

[Moue]

Well new games on Steam are showing up at the low low price of 79$. I pirate because it's free and if the game goes on sale for 5$ on Steam, I'll get it.

 

[Bankie]

Not all companies approach DLC the same way ... although some do clearly remove content, many (if not most) use it as a way to expand and customize a game more to your liking. Game prices have essentially been static for the last 15-20 years (few other commodities have done that). Well handled DLC provides an acceptable way for companies to monetize a game over time

For example, in the old days (80s and 90s) you got a base game that was rarely expanded except for maybe 1 or 2 expansions (separate purchase) ... this could set you back $30-50 for a base game and $10-30 for each expansion ... companies usually sold a small fraction of the original game sales in the expansion sales ... if a developer couldn't include a feature in the original game or in the expansion it waited for the sequel or it was lost forever

In the modern environment a company can allow modifications to the game (usually that affect balance) to be optional purchases ... so you can have a base game, like Oblivion, with additions like a Mage Tower or Assassin's Hideout ... they are hardly necessary to complete the game and many of their features make difficult items easier to obtain but they are also completely optional purchases ... Farcry DLC and Fallout DLC was similar in nature ... since the base game price has been fixed in the $50-60 range for so long, the only method the developer has to try and obtain extra revenue and/or profit is to create these items ... since many games don't warrant an expansion, the DLC options let them expand it without the overhead of developing a full out expansion

In the old days you also got tons of free content included in patches. Whenever there was a new UT/Q3 patch there were new maps, skins, game modes, etc. included for free. Now all of that crap is included in multiple $15 map packs and $5 skins. Let's not forget how prevalent and available mods were also. As with everything it became less about delivering value and quality and more about extracting the most money possible.

 

[kbrickley]

In the old days you also got tons of free content included in patches. Whenever there was a new UT/Q3 patch there were new maps, skins, game modes, etc. included for free. Now all of that crap is included in multiple $15 map packs and $5 skins. Let's not forget how prevalent and available mods were also. As with everything it became less about delivering value and quality and more about extracting the most money possible.

I enjoyed free stuff as much as the next guy but I also realize that developers need to eat and have the basics of a fulfilled life (and that unfortunately takes money) ... this is also why I generally oppose the whole concept of free stuff ... it is anti-capitalist in nature and anti-competitive (how do you compete against something that costs the buyer nothing) ... someone has to pay for the programmers/artists to make these additional items and it is not unreasonable to expect the person who uses them and benefits from them (the consumer) to be the person who pays ... providing free stuff to your consumers should be a choice, not an obligation (unless we want to abandon the whole concept of capitalism ... the most effective economic system on the planet)

 

[silk186]

Senpai finally noticed me!

[H]ard|Forum: 1
Pirates: 0

Did you cite your source... PIRATED

[H]ard|Forum: 0
Pirates: 1[/QUOTE]

 

[silk186]

I never had internet at the time and all the shareware i bought were from $5 to $15. It's true shareware had a good amount of content from the game itself but i don't think the idea of paying for a 'demo' would go over too well now days.

You failed, you are not supposed to pay for shareware, hence the name. I used to pick up share ware games for a dollar or less. When I thought a game was really fun like commander keen I would buy the full game

 

[c3141hf]

Its complete and utter nonsense. No one HAS to play a video game, please, so if you can't afford it... great, don't buy it, and play a free video game online.

Far more reasonable are the "try before you buy" crowd, that download a game, and if they like it, then they purchase the legit version so that they can play online and get all the updates and support the developer.

Then there's the group that pirate because its free, and not only free but sometimes the pirated versions are more convenient allowing for offline play or back in the day not needing to put a CD in your laptop every time you want to fire it up as DRM.

The consequences are the same; either

A.You can't afford it and you don't download an unauthorized copy of the game and the developer gets no money

B.You can't afford it and you do download an unauthorized copy of the game and the developer gets no money

Your outdated sense of morality belongs in the past.