You're forgetting the advantage that consoles have. Well defined hardware that software can be optimized specifically. They will get a boost from this effect.
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Who Will Buy A $500 Steam Machine?
- Thread starter CommanderFrank
- Start date
The steambox won't have that if that is what you are saying. It isn't an actual console in the way that the Xbox, PS or Wii are consoles. That is the plus of real consoles. that is why consoles can do more with less. They have an OS that is designed for just basic and finite functionality, games can be designed to only run on this one cpu and gpu combo. don't need to worry about making the game flexible... The steambox on the other hand is basically your normal run of the mill pc. Valve just says that you have to include at least this level of hardware, and then install our version of Linux on it and include this controller and you have a steam box. The designs are more geared at blending into your entertainment center and using less power and quiet fans, but not to be a console in the game way that the other systems are.
There will be specific hardware offerings and hardware makers will be able to focus more on optimizing drivers for individual components and optimize specific hardware working together.
Twisted Kidney
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I don't think you're likely to find many on these forums. We may have our disagreements but this is an enthusiast site and building machines is sort of what we do. I hope Valve's OS is a proper distro though. It could be beneficial to have a widely used Linux distro for Linux gaming.
Actually, does anyone know is Steam OS is going to be a full fledged distro or is it going to be swallowed up by a set-top UI?
Actually, does anyone know is Steam OS is going to be a full fledged distro or is it going to be swallowed up by a set-top UI?
I have not heard anything about there needing to be certain hardware offerings. Valve's beta kits were running Core i3s - i7s and various Nvidia cards. the Xi3's Piston box runs on a AMD platform. So I'm not sure were you got the set hardware specs at. They can run whatever as long as they meet certain requirements as far as everything that I had read.
Also you are still looking at games made for generic pcs. even if drivers could be made a tad special for these systems the games still would be designed to run on any generic pc so you wouldn't get the same level of boost that you do on a console where they know exactly the cpu and gpu you are running.
WBurchnall
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I think Steam almost needs to ...if they could afford it... buy some exclusives for their system that would entice people to at least try SteamOS or the SteamBox. I will give them this plus though -- the games on steam are probably already going to be $20.00 on average LESS than a console game for the Ps4/Xbox One on launch-days (assuming PC release is timed with PS4/Xbox 360) and drop in price much faster. PS4/Xbox One games will likely take forever to see a price cut if its anything like the last generation.
Sounds like it is swallowed up. An article I read stated that it has to boot right to Big screen, which is something that Microsoft wouldn't let them do which is why they went with Linux instead of windows for the platform.
jbltecnicspro
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That default controller though... 
Depends on the configuration. My current system is feeling long in the tooth. My biggest concern is I have a lot of Windows only games. Plus there is a lot of older games, even current games that need to be in Desktop mode for the first run. Also how will the SteamOS/Machine handle third party stores, ie. Uplay, Origin, etc. Lots of questions. I'll wait for some extensive reviews. Otherwise I've been pretty happy with Big Picture Mode, when it works.
What I do look forward to, is new case designs. I'm leaning on switching over to a short depth 2U rackmount with horizontal expansion slots. If a company can make a stylish case such as that for cheap including the riser I'd be a happy camper.
Time, and reviews will tell.
What I do look forward to, is new case designs. I'm leaning on switching over to a short depth 2U rackmount with horizontal expansion slots. If a company can make a stylish case such as that for cheap including the riser I'd be a happy camper.
Time, and reviews will tell.
I personally think that effect is a bit over rated. What it comes down to more is consoles are locked at terrible resolution and settings that no PC gamer would find acceptable, so instead the PC gamer ends up upgrading
I don't really see the steambox benefiting from that effect anyway. At most I think you'll see game devs making sure their "low" or "medium" preset works on the lowest steambox and that'll be it, not expecting much optimisation.
it's Valve...they can make their own exclusives. Someone already mentioned HL3 and that alone would be enough to generate considerable sales.
funkydmunky
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Let's "F"ing hope, eh!
Unless those other stores have a working Linux storefront and Linux versions of their games then simple, it won't handle them. For your window based games, from what I heard (but haven't looked into to see the exact details of) is that you need a windows based pc and it will somehow then just stream the game to the steambox.
I personally think that effect is a bit over rated. What it comes down to more is consoles are locked at terrible resolution and settings that no PC gamer would find acceptable, so instead the PC gamer ends up upgrading
I don't really see the steambox benefiting from that effect anyway. At most I think you'll see game devs making sure their "low" or "medium" preset works on the lowest steambox and that'll be it, not expecting much optimisation.
I wouldn't say no pc gamer. No gamer that cares about being able to max out every game wouldn't. Although I guess that said, I myself am just a gamer and not a <insert device> gamer. I game on both my pc and consoles, both connected to my tv.
But do agree that I don't expect to see much from the steambox.
won't happen, they already said they aren't going to lock HL3 down to anything as they learned their lesson with HL2 when they first released it.
Krenum
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This.
Nah, I'm not talking about "max settings" gamers, I'm talking about almost near anyone. I think very few PC gamers could play a game at 720p or lower, 30fps or lower, at low graphics settings, maybe medium-low at best and think "hrm, yeah, this is fine". Yet that's what console gamers do, I think one big psychological difference is simply that PC gamers see that they're playing at pathetically low settings and that GPU upgrade starts to look more appealing, where as on a console, that's just how it comes.
Ok, so I'm that PC gamer that wants to convert to consoles that Valve is so desperately searching for. I dont game much anymore, mostly just TF2 and L4D an hour per day, every other day. I was into BF3 but got bored, and am considering upgrading my PC just to play BF4. I've just lost my competitive spirit for multiplayer, which is the only reason I'm a PC gamer. So I'm thinking about transitioning to single player games. Stuff like Assassins Creed, Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, etc. The last console I owned was a N64. I think I'd probably enjoy relaxing on the couch playing on my projector theater instead of strapped into my desk with a headset and mic on.
Granted, I could all this already with my PC. Having a wireless keyboard/mouse on the couch might prove problematic. Biggest problem is the time to port console games over, and how poorly they are often done. For some reason console games just tend to run 100x better on a console. Maybe it's because they're all running 720p, or maybe my PC just cant cut the mustard anymore.
My only concern right now is if Steams library is going to be enough to satisfy me. Some of the games I want to play will probably never come to steam at all. Valve currently has 5 games on my top 10 fav pc games of all time (HL2, TF2, Portal1/2, L4D2). Thats pretty impressive. Microsoft and Sony have 0, but thats because I dont play console games.
Valve makes a pretty ballsy claim that all their games will run at 60fps. If they started shipping new episodes for HL3 and stuff, I could see myself becoming loyal to just them. As for the rest of their library, they have some A-list titles in there, and then a TON of random crap that I have no idea if it's any good or not.
Granted, I could all this already with my PC. Having a wireless keyboard/mouse on the couch might prove problematic. Biggest problem is the time to port console games over, and how poorly they are often done. For some reason console games just tend to run 100x better on a console. Maybe it's because they're all running 720p, or maybe my PC just cant cut the mustard anymore.
My only concern right now is if Steams library is going to be enough to satisfy me. Some of the games I want to play will probably never come to steam at all. Valve currently has 5 games on my top 10 fav pc games of all time (HL2, TF2, Portal1/2, L4D2). Thats pretty impressive. Microsoft and Sony have 0, but thats because I dont play console games.
Valve makes a pretty ballsy claim that all their games will run at 60fps. If they started shipping new episodes for HL3 and stuff, I could see myself becoming loyal to just them. As for the rest of their library, they have some A-list titles in there, and then a TON of random crap that I have no idea if it's any good or not.
FearTheCow
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I don't know of many people, if any, who would be willing to pay damn near $600 just to play HL3. If Steam released exclusives on the steam box, it would basically be a big "FUCK YOU" to PC players who have made them what they are today.
Nah I dont think HL3 would be exclusive to steambox, it would just be a big PC hit that COULD run on the steambox, giving people motivation to get a steambox instead of a new pc.
The other big ticket item for me is just what all can I do with this steambox. I know they want to partner with netflix and stuff and thats great, but can I throw in a 512GB SSD to load a bunch of games from? Can I run any linux app on it and use uTorrent and Chrome and stuff so it can double as my pc?
Cuz all in all, I can upgarde my current rig to an i7 with 16gb ram and a R9 290 for around $800, and it will be able to do everything steambox can, plus play origin games and so forth. But can I use that controller with it?
The other big ticket item for me is just what all can I do with this steambox. I know they want to partner with netflix and stuff and thats great, but can I throw in a 512GB SSD to load a bunch of games from? Can I run any linux app on it and use uTorrent and Chrome and stuff so it can double as my pc?
Cuz all in all, I can upgarde my current rig to an i7 with 16gb ram and a R9 290 for around $800, and it will be able to do everything steambox can, plus play origin games and so forth. But can I use that controller with it?
WHAT?
1 mil sold in under 24 hours
http://news.xbox.com/2013/11/xbox-one-biggest-launch-in-xbox-history
Black friday sales
http://venturebeat.com/2013/11/30/microsofts-xbox-one-wins-early-sales-battle-on-black-friday/
Your PC can do everything a steambox can do, the steambox is literally just a PC with steamOS on it (and I mean literally in it's literal sense). That's why the steambox is a bit confusing... you can just use your PC instead, so it doesn't seem like it's going to appeal to people who already are PC gamers.
Actually I might have been tempted by a steambox a year ago when I was looking for a cheap interim PC and had about a $500 budget, but even then it only would have been if I couldn't have built it myself for the same or less.
I'll admit, that's about the only scenario I see where it'll make any headway. If the kid insists he wants a gaming PC then a parent will see this as a viable option.
But, my only caveat with that choice is that it'll be more difficult a sell to parents without windows or MacOS, something they're confident the kid will be able to do his homework on as well. A parent knows the kid isn't doing homework sat in front of a console. In front of a normal gaming PC they could manage it no problem. If Steam Box is marketed as a pure gaming machine then it'll make it a little more difficult to sell to parents.
bullet-worm
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I'm not quite seeing the point of a SteamBox until it plays a great majority of the games in the Steam library. If you are going to stream the Windows titles from your regular PC you may as well just solve the problem of stringing an HDMI cable from your PC over to the TV (which I know may be an issue in some households).
But I can't see playing a game with the added latency of streaming video and controller info through a secondary system. Seems like an unnecessary step that would put you at a disadvantage in multiplayer games, which leaves only single player games or split-screen multiplayer.
I'm not seeing its usefulness, but I'll reserve final judgement until we see it in action and see what it actually does bring to the table.
worm
But I can't see playing a game with the added latency of streaming video and controller info through a secondary system. Seems like an unnecessary step that would put you at a disadvantage in multiplayer games, which leaves only single player games or split-screen multiplayer.
I'm not seeing its usefulness, but I'll reserve final judgement until we see it in action and see what it actually does bring to the table.
worm
Ocean
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Upgradable gpu tech, and access to my steam library.
And then maybe.
And then maybe.
GoodBoy
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I think it will do pretty well, especially if they can make it as easy to use as a console.
Steam has a great library.
Steam games are often on sale, the prices don't even compare (Console games cost way more), and the games often look better.
Steam has a great library.
Steam games are often on sale, the prices don't even compare (Console games cost way more), and the games often look better.
A $500 Linux Steam Machine to run the Linux Steam client? Very few. A $500 Steam Machine that gets the OS switched to Windows? Probably a bit more.
Steam Machines aren't going to make a blip in the market compared to Xbox/Playstation/Wii consoles.
Steam Machines aren't going to make a blip in the market compared to Xbox/Playstation/Wii consoles.
GoodBoy
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And really, it's just forshadowing the move to digital distribution, and Steam is getting a headstart compared to the consoles. Everyone is saying this generation of consoles is the last where you will still buy a game on a disc. Even the next generation of consoles will operate pretty much like steam does. Steams has a had 10+ year headstart on digital distribution, which has many advantages. Cheaper distribution, much easier to review patches for games, cheaper games (perhaps in part due to lack of game piracy, I don't think it's possible on steam). Pc crashed? Login to new pc and your games are all still there. Achievements, friends lists, voice chat is already built in.
So if steabox is just a pc running steamOS, whats the point? Is steamOS supposed to be optimized for games? Can it run desktop equivalent apps? Is steamOS required to use the new steam controller? Or would you have to set up a dualboot scenario to maintain a workstation/gaming platform environment?
am I reading it right? There's no Steam Box per se, but a Steam OS available for OEM who builds machines rated for Steam OS?
The article shows an image of a Steam Box built by iBuyPower. This seems to imply that other OEM are welcome to pitch in their own Steam OS machines.
If that's the case then I don't see many buying iBuyPower's machine because of the gaudy controller.
The article shows an image of a Steam Box built by iBuyPower. This seems to imply that other OEM are welcome to pitch in their own Steam OS machines.
If that's the case then I don't see many buying iBuyPower's machine because of the gaudy controller.
RealityCrunch
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Correct, though the controller is the Steam Controller and will be standard across all SteamBoxes.
We'll see. That was the purpose of OpenGL too but where are the Linux games now?
Correct it is just a normal run of the mil PC. They went with the steamOs (Linux) because Microsoft wouldn't let them have OEMs build pcs that booted right to big screen mode in steam (replace normal windows UI maybe to lock down to only steam?) OS really isn't optimized for games. It is just a Linux OS that launches right into steam instead of giving you a normal desktop. Overall the point is this is a dummy proof PC that you connect to your tv that the average person could use instead of running steam on their normal work station and figure how to connect it to the tv
Yup, which is what I was trying to point out above and a person couldn't grasp. Valve will not make any of these themselves. Instead you have differen OEMs that will make some type I machine and put the OS on them and include that controller which is the only part that Valve controls.
Give me the option to dual boot windows or at least XMBC and I would consider it. If I was in the market for a new media center at least.
Make sure the hardware stays relevant. Those are decent specs for anyone building a media center anyways but 2 years from now you're going to get better bang for your $$ building your own.
Make sure the hardware stays relevant. Those are decent specs for anyone building a media center anyways but 2 years from now you're going to get better bang for your $$ building your own.
Do you really think this was done by Valve to give gamers a choice?
You can dual boot on your own, it is a pc. do what you want. The same for hardware. You select which one you buy, just like any other pc and then you can change out hardware.
Again don't think of this as a console really, but as a PC that comes running a version of Linux locked down to only running the steam app and nothing else. Also keep in mind that a $500 machine would be a cheap one. Xi3's or whatever the company is that makes the piston box version sells theirs for $1000. There isn't 'A" spec, there are the same number of specs are there is any other pc out there. Some run Intel, some AMD. Some use Nvidia, others AMD....
"Locked down" is probably a poor choice of words. Yes, it'll be Linux kernel + video drivers + Steam client and games right out of the box, but you'll be free to install any other Linux software or a desktop environment if you want to without molesting the rest of it. SteamOS won't come bundled with extraneous software, but it's not going to restrict installation of other packages either.
I think Valve will have to wow us a bit at the January dev conference to win back some momentum for this thing. There needs to be a more united front from the PC gaming industry to get traction. So far it seems like Valve and NVIDIA are the only ones that are trying to spread the hype.