U.S. Attorney Issues Statement On Aaron Swartz Case

[Paradoxine]

He was. Ironically he also had a distinct sense of social justice. He'd done a lot of things for the benefit of society as a whole. The greed, selfishness, corruption, the typical range of behaviors driven by the emotions present in more balanced and stable minds played small roles in his thought processes and decisions. This kind of behavior and drive is because of upbringing, intelligence, and years of severe depression. I know this, I understand this, because I also have bi-polar and have dealt with severe depression for over a decade. Social justice, moral justice, is something one becomes acutely aware of from extensive experience with clinical depression. Hell, Abraham Lincoln is believed to have had bipolar. The way that man thought through things, how he genuinely cared and empathized with all parties, that's the product of years of depression, it's a thought process Aaron had, that I have.

This isn't something I expect people to understand on their own, so I'll explain the kind of thought processes that go on and what's behind them. One poster here claims his suicide was selfish. That somehow his decision to end his life, to cease existence, has greater negative affect on someone other than himself. Ridiculous.

What matters is the thought process, the reasoning, behind his decision. I can't know with certainty what it was, but the manner in which clinical depression alters how one perceives the world is something that can only be fully understood through experience. I have that experience. I don't find myself wondering much about why he committed suicide as I would probably do the same thing in his place for reasons both rational and emotional. First though, background.

The thing about bipolar and clinical depression is that it's not like the depression most people have experience with. It's not primarily psychological. It's deep, dark, a biochecmical deficiency in the brain. If someone gets cut, they bleed, their mind can't think the wound away. The most they can do is ignore the pain, and even then endorphins aid that process. The wound will bleed until it's treated. The difference between that and bipolar is that the treatments for bipolar are almost a crapshoot. Medical science is still quite primitive in how it treats mental disorders. They don't measure how ones mind behaves chemically and then prescribe treatment. They don't precisely target the deficiencies that cause instability. They don't even truly understand what goes on in the mind which causes bipolar. They just try one medicine after the other in varying dosages to see which ones improve the overall state of mind. Primitive.

So, why did he commit suicide. It's nothing so simple as 'he felt depressed'. The yearn for death from clinical depression is real but intelligence, an above average intelligence, both enables and promotes relying on reason and logic to make decisions as emotion is something that one realizes even in balanced minds is an imperfect and flawed method for decision making and in the case of someone with bipolar foolish at best. So, when faced with the prospect of having his life ruined from overzealous prosecutors who define their success by how thoroughly they can fuck over a persons life he had to consider that this would be a financial burden requiring funding that would be better served elsewhere He'd take into account that throughout this process there's the very real possibility that he'd be unable to continue doing the things that made his life meaningful, that kept the desire for death in check. He may have rationally concluded that years in prison would cause so much stress, deny him access to the things he used to cope with depression, that suicide was almost inevitable with prolonged incarceration. One becomes quite familiar with their mental limits and what could break them dealing with clinical depression for years.

So, instead of allowing himself to be a drain on further progress in the area of social justice he devoted his life to, to avoid the less than favorable conditions in prison likely to result in suicide from taking place, to essentially tell people who would go to lengths to counter efforts aimed at benefiting society and mankind as a whole to go fuck themselves, he committed suicide. Did he 'feel terrible' throughout the entire ordeal? I would think so. But he'd felt that way before, he'd dealt with this for years, he'd come to terms with it knew from experience that he could do things to cope with it until things rebounded. The catalyst here wasn't his depression. He didn't feel entitled to be beyond the law. It was that the law was not serving justice, was not enabling social justice, and the price being asked of him was to be denied the things that allowed him to feel any joy in life, the things that enabled him to stave off the desire to end his life. This is a price few should ever have to pay and few will ever understand how severe and steep a price it is.

What would it take for you to consider suicide? Lose your legs? Completely paralyzed? Chronic pain with no relief? How about not being able to enjoy any aspect of life for an untold amount of years, perhaps for the rest of you life? Do you realize that clinical depression is so severe you can't even enjoy sex? What should peak in a height of chemical bliss is instead met with a sigh of despair. That last part a bit too much for some of you? Maybe you should consider that's one of the reasons people with depression feel unable to openly discuss how they feel, what they experience. People just don't want to hear about this, it makes them uncomfortable, and who are you that they should even care? Aaron Schwartz understood all of this, and as a result he dedicated his time and effort to caring for the well-being of others. This world is a lesser place without him.

Excellent post, although I'm afraid your words might be lost to the ears of some of the posters on this forum who think they're god's gift to the world.

 

[MasonD]

Excellent post, although I'm afraid your words might be lost to the ears of some of the posters on this forum who think they're god's gift to the world.

Agreed!

 

[Ski]

I wish more people on the Hardforum were like Paradoxine, such a fresh of breath air on here. Well done brother...

 

[Ski]

I wish more people on the Hardforum were like Paradoxine, such a fresh of breath air on here. Well done brother...

Edit, I meant to say Lastquestion sorry

 

[LastQuestion]

That he did, but it wasn't because of his ability to work around his mental disability. His ability to battle social injustice (behind his monitor, no less) is a result of his mental condition. Some mentally ill patents are a very paranoid bunch and will fight the system no matter how conspiratorial or real their targets are.

Meant to quote the post you responded to there, the one from Ur_Mom. We seem to be on the same page. Although, even though 'out-there' paranoia can be attributed to mental illness I've found many people that use this line of reasoning, if you can call it that, tend to extend the benefit of doubt so far as to almost deny human nature. Not everyone, but quite a few people. The propensity in which people indulge in delusion is disconcerting. With clinical depression bliss is at best illusive so choosing to live in ignorance provides little benefit.

 

[Reimu]

I am going to be sound highly pragmatic, but I feel that Aaron Swartz made a well-calculated move with his death.

His death made the very issue that he risked everything for, being the dissemination of research funded by public funds important once more. Him rotting away from judicial proceeding would have ebbed away at his vigor and reduce his very topic to obsolescence.

By ending his life, he made his prosecutors unable to gain anything, and force them all into defensive positions. In fact, Ortiz and her team are being tried in the court of public opinion, the most unforgiving of court, and are under the same kind of brutal scrutiny that they inflicted on Swartz.

Swartz made it possible for politicians to see potential gains in amending the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, by becoming a martyr. The politicians now have a powerful PR card that they could play in using Swartz as a paragon of virtues. This may be against Swartz's beliefs, but the outcome played the advantage of his cause.

The worst part is that Carmen Ortiz now had to defend Swartz in some sense, by stating front and center that Swartz was not self-serving. Ortiz undermined her very institution by an admission of disproportionate retribution in the form of that written statement. Swartz's death turned the entire table around, and allowed the dead man to speak up.

 

[Methadras]

Six months in a low security facility. Right. They known damn right that they would have sought maximum penalties to "set an example."

They say that now after the fact, but if Schwartz had lived to see sentencing, they would have been asking for the max. Such double-speak bullshit. I'm not a fan of what Schwartz did, but I'm an even bigger hater of prosecutorial over-reach in all respects. As far as this government and the justice system is concerned at this stage, we are simply unconvicted criminals waiting to be picked up at any time of the day or night for some offense we never knew we ever committed.

Read this and see why: http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229

 

[Reimu]

One of the things that I find highly amusing is that some people look to only his suicide to answer the question of the merits of Schwertz's cause. What does having or not having sympathy do to the meat of the matter, being that the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act is not adequate today, that the legal prosecution process deserves another look, and how that public funded contents demand user access fees that goes to private hands?

This is my rationale in countering Thuleman, for Scwartz's death is now highly useful in advocating his cause, moreso than living in obscurity.

 

[Entertainer]

They say that now after the fact, but if Schwartz had lived to see sentencing, they would have been asking for the max. Such double-speak bullshit. I'm not a fan of what Schwartz did, but I'm an even bigger hater of prosecutorial over-reach in all respects. As far as this government and the justice system is concerned at this stage, we are simply unconvicted criminals waiting to be picked up at any time of the day or night for some offense we never knew we ever committed.

Read this and see why: http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594035229

Here is a shorter version along the same line
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

 

[Winwolf]

Translation: We all knew this case was a bs witch hunt and we went ahead with it any way because of political pressure. I sure do hope she spends the rest of her career chasing ambulances because that's no better than what she deserves for allowing this crap to get so vastly out of hand.

 

[pothb]

This isn't something I expect people to understand on their own, so I'll explain the kind of thought processes that go on and what's behind them. One poster here claims his suicide was selfish. That somehow his decision to end his life, to cease existence, has greater negative affect on someone other than himself. Ridiculous.

I agree with the rest of your post. However, just because the person in question ceases to exist, doesn't mean it's the greatest negative effect. I think the people around him, who loves him like family and friends, would feel a great deal of anguish and sorrow as well. Whether it is not as much or more, is debatable but will never be clearly defined.

I can see reasons for suicide, but I personally just don't agree with it. But then again, there are certain situations that may or may not lead to it that I don't know about, because no one really knows about these things.

 

[SkribbelKat]

Slightly serious Skribbels here -- People have lots of different views and feelings about this stuff. None of them are really wrong (that I read so far). Even if I don't agree with someone about it, I don't think arguing about the morality of this situation is worth the calories people are gonna spend pondering and then typing stuff out. We should all be nice to each other and find a way to share obscure jokes about things with one another that are vaguely related to the opening post.

 

[dremic]

I agree with the rest of your post. However, just because the person in question ceases to exist, doesn't mean it's the greatest negative effect. I think the people around him, who loves him like family and friends, would feel a great deal of anguish and sorrow as well. Whether it is not as much or more, is debatable but will never be clearly defined.

I can see reasons for suicide, but I personally just don't agree with it. But then again, there are certain situations that may or may not lead to it that I don't know about, because no one really knows about these things.

prison is pretty frightening.. facing 35 years in prison? I would contemplate suicide myself.

 

[Reimu]

SkribbelKat: Jokes are on the US legal system and the American citizenry. It's a joke and it's funny. Owait...

 

[Godmachine]

Oh, I feel perfectly assured now that they didn't go overboard at all.

Seriously. Freedom on the Internet is now the new "Witch" to hunt for any lawmaker or politician wanting to make a name for themselves.

Sad.

 

[SkribbelKat]

SkribbelKat: Jokes are on the US legal system and the American citizenry. It's a joke and it's funny. Owait...

Skribbels everywhere usually don't care about politics, but...yes, you can has political cheezburger.

(ZOMG, you people try to turn everything into a reason to complain about politics to each other. I thought only old people who have nothing else to talk about did that.)

 

[mesasone]

career prosecutors

Career prosecutors. More interested in making a name for themselves and furthering their career than pursing justice and carrying out the law.

 

[Reimu]

This is an excerpt from The Guardian:

Clearly, the politically ambitious Ortiz - who was touted just last month by the Boston Globe as a possible Democratic candidate for governor - is feeling serious heat as a result of rising fury over her office's wildly overzealous pursuit of Swartz. The same is true of Heymann, whose father was Deputy Attorney General in the Clinton administration and who has tried to forge his own reputation as a tough-guy prosecutor who takes particular aim at hackers.

Yesterday, the GOP's House Oversight Committee Chairman, Darrell Issa, announced a formal investigation into the Justice Department's conduct in this case. Separately, two Democratic members of the House Judiciary Committee issued stinging denunciations, with Democratic Rep. Jared Polis proclaiming that "the charges were ridiculous and trumped-up" and labeling Swartz a "martyr" for the evils of minimum sentencing guidelines, while Rep. Zoe Lofgren denounced the prosecutors' behavior as "pretty outrageous" and "way out of line".

It is clear that political blood will be shed, and Swartz will be used as a tool for political expedience, but Ortiz's ambitions have been seriously hampered by this one death.

The US has become a society in which political and financial elites systematically evade accountability for their bad acts, no matter how destructive. Those who torture, illegally eavesdrop, commit systemic financial fraud, even launder money for designated terrorists and drug dealers are all protected from criminal liability, while those who are powerless - or especially, as in Swartz's case, those who challenge power - are mercilessly punished for trivial transgressions. All one has to do to see that this is true is to contrast the incredible leniency given by Ortiz's office to large companies and executives accused of serious crimes with the indescribably excessive pursuit of Swartz.

 

[jojo69]

I am going to be sound highly pragmatic, but I feel that Aaron Swartz made a well-calculated move with his death.

His death made the very issue that he risked everything for, being the dissemination of research funded by public funds important once more. Him rotting away from judicial proceeding would have ebbed away at his vigor and reduce his very topic to obsolescence.

By ending his life, he made his prosecutors unable to gain anything, and force them all into defensive positions. In fact, Ortiz and her team are being tried in the court of public opinion, the most unforgiving of court, and are under the same kind of brutal scrutiny that they inflicted on Swartz.

Swartz made it possible for politicians to see potential gains in amending the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, by becoming a martyr. The politicians now have a powerful PR card that they could play in using Swartz as a paragon of virtues. This may be against Swartz's beliefs, but the outcome played the advantage of his cause.

The worst part is that Carmen Ortiz now had to defend Swartz in some sense, by stating front and center that Swartz was not self-serving. Ortiz undermined her very institution by an admission of disproportionate retribution in the form of that written statement. Swartz's death turned the entire table around, and allowed the dead man to speak up.

good point, sad that we don't have him in the fight anymore, but I think you are correct

 

[erexx]

We didn't really mean that we were going to persecute him to the full extent of the law.
Liars...

 

[ktk_ace]

So the moral of the story remains: "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime".

Fucking selfish coward.

Im with you on this one.

 

[tvarghese]

Carmen Ortiz, the U.S. attorney for Massachusetts has issued a statement on the Aaron Swartz case.

On a very slightly positive note, her political career is over before it started. I understand she had her eyes on the Governor's spot. She'll forever be known as that a$$h*13 that unnecessarily pushed a kid to suicide and didn't know when to back off.

At least Mass discovered what she was like before it was too late.

I'm sure she is feeling really bad about the whole thing... probably blaming Aaron S. for ruining her carefully laid out plans. But then again she may have a heart, but she is a lawyer.

 

[BladeVenom]

You know if it would have been a reporter or politician, they wouldn't have even been charged with a crime.

 

[panhead]

So the moral of the story remains: "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime".

After the HSBC settlement and bank foreclosure abuse deal;

The moral of the story remains "If you don't have the money, don't do the crime".

 

[jojo69]

 

[c3141hf]

There is this article: http://act.demandprogress.org/act/aaron_justice/?referring_akid=1969.2065568.dgUUFS&source=typ-tw

Basically, because it was a victimless crime, it should go unpunished? Yes, I get the law is flawed, but that was the law that was passed by our government. Don't like it? Work to get it fixed. Don't commit the crimes and then decide to do something about it after you get caught. Justice for Aaron? Ok....

I don't agree with suicide, I would never do it. But, I don't see it as the 'easy way out'. It is a solution to where you don't have to do anything else, and it takes all the future work out of it, but I see it as being anything close to 'easy'.

Do not use the term "our government". It is not "my government". It is not "your government" either. It is the government of those who can afford to buy the laws; a tool for the privileged to subjugate the unprivileged. There has not been a government in history that has not operated in this manner because absolute power corrupts absolutely and all governments are about violence, power, and control.

The fact that the US Government states that something is illegal (which is really rich, considering that the US Government is the largest and most successful criminal organization in history) does not make it so nor does it justify the use of violence against someone. The fact that people may or may not have voted for something doesn't either; democracy does not give you the right to violate someone else's natural rights.

Although our copyright laws are flawed and in need of fundamental repair the government should never have the right to pick and choose which laws they enforce ... people should use the Aaron Swartz case to help drive for much needed reforms, not ask the government to selectively enforce the laws

They do this all the time. The statist term is "prosecutorial discretion". For example, the banksters committed an act of grand theft when they used stolen money to bail themselves out and give themselves bonuses after running what essentially was a giant scam. The only one of those types that went to jail was Bernie Madoff and that was because he defrauded other rich people who could afford to buy justice.

what he accessed was not free period RTFA why would .gov go after someone if shit was free and open on the internet. he hacked into mit's systems and copied scholarly articles.

Except that what he accessed was open to anyone using an MIT computer. His "crime" is violating the terms of service. He hacked nothing. At worst, he committed a trespass when he walked into the wiring closet (although I would like to know what idiot leaves a wiring closet unlocked like that) but that is not a federal issue and it is not a crime worthy of a multi-decade sentence in the industrial prison complex.

So the moral of the story remains: "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime".

Fucking selfish coward.

I think we should make using the username PrincessDie a life in prison offense If I convince the majority of people to vote for that law, would you be OK with being thrown in prison for life?

 

[Jaerb4]

On a very slightly positive note, her political career is over before it started. I understand she had her eyes on the Governor's spot. She'll forever be known as that a$$h*13 that unnecessarily pushed a kid to suicide and didn't know when to back off.

At least Mass discovered what she was like before it was too late.

I'm sure she is feeling really bad about the whole thing... probably blaming Aaron S. for ruining her carefully laid out plans. But then again she may have a heart, but she is a lawyer.

What percentage of angry reddit users do you think actually vote?

 

[stevedave]

What percentage of angry reddit users do you think actually vote?

The real question is what percentage of votes actually matter....Its a trick question because the answer is zero. If given a choice to vote between eating Kellogg's Raisin bran or Post raisin bran would you take the time to make that vote?

 

[jojo69]

The real question is what percentage of votes actually matter....Its a trick question because the answer is zero. If given a choice to vote between eating Kellogg's Raisin bran or Post raisin bran would you take the time to make that vote?

Goddamit!

Post, you faggot...wanna fight?!?

obligatory /sarc

 

[pothb]

prison is pretty frightening.. facing 35 years in prison? I would contemplate suicide myself.

It probably is. Not saying it isn't. But I think I would have tried to do it if I had to. But I guess statements like that only matters when it's time to face it, not when said elsewhere. Then there's the family that mourns.. etc. People react differently.

 

[stevedave]

Goddamit!

Post, you faggot...wanna fight?!?

obligatory /sarc

hahaha There is actually a bit of difference there...I dig Kellogg's.

 

[SkribbelKat]

On a very slightly positive note, her political career is over before it started. I understand she had her eyes on the Governor's spot. She'll forever be known as that a$$h*13 that unnecessarily pushed a kid to suicide and didn't know when to back off.

At least Mass discovered what she was like before it was too late.

I'm sure she is feeling really bad about the whole thing... probably blaming Aaron S. for ruining her carefully laid out plans. But then again she may have a heart, but she is a lawyer.

I think that might be an overestimation of the amount of attention this is gonna get from society. They're kinda more focused on Lance Armstrong, or were this past week because the television told them it was more significant than anything else. It's an obscure kind of event and no one will even anything about it in a month or two.

 

[SkribbelKat]

*even remember anything...

Where'd I leave my coffee?