Torchlight 2

[Drawmonster]

To what end though? Sure, it is nice to get gear playing. At least half the gear I'm wearing in D3 I've got as drops.

The thing about Torchlight 2, the whole game feels like what is the point? If gear is so easy in a week when you've been level 100 for 3 days what is going to keep you playing? Yea, all this bad ass gear drops so quickly, then what.

Mechanically, I don't like half the stuff in game, and people's answer is going to be it will be fixed by modders. Why should basic things have to be fixed by someone else?

Things are small, it can sometimes be really hard to identify what is a mob and what is just something on the ground. There is no real deliniation, which is probably because the game has an incredibly flat appearance. If you zoom in even a little your field of view starts to take a massive dump.

The map is horrendous. Why can't I move it around to make it easier to see what I have and haven't explored? Why when people in a multiplayer game move around does it not expand my map? If I fall a little behind because I was trying to look at the stuff in my bags it can be a pain to try to catch up to them.

The AI and ability clipping when you are targetting mobs to attack them is awful. Why can I just shoot my pistol and hit something, but then rapid fire clips the wall and doesn't hit it. Why if a mob is above me and completely out of range and I click it will I just stand there and swing my hammer at the wall without a prayer of hitting it.

Honestly, there are too many stats, and I really have no idea what half this stuff does. Do gems that increase electric damage actually increase my damage if I'm just shooting a pistol? Why can't I see what equiping something is going to do to my stats without equiping it?

Why can't I see certain things maintained? Like Engineers get the healing pet, but sometimes it disappears and I can't tell. Sometimes it's just out of range and not hitting me. It gets lost in mobs and I can't tell if it is just retarded and not hitting me, or got killed or something.

You remind me of a dirty troll that was banned....8 months ago.

 

[LigTasm]

I'm having fun in this game, certainly good for $20. Needs next to no graphics power, my 680 idles at 324mhz playing this game at a constant 60fps. I could probably play perfectly fine on the HD4000 iGPU.

Having a huge problem playing with friends though, we keep getting disconnected or dropped and can't see each other online.

 

[tehslippery]

You remind me of a dirty troll that was banned....8 months ago.

God forbid someone have complaints about a game you like and list the reasons, they must be trolling when they type out all these reasons you can't even be bothered to address. I wonder who the troll here is.

 

[Drawmonster]

God forbid someone have complaints about a game you like and list the reasons, they must be trolling when they type out all these reasons you can't even be bothered to address. I wonder who the troll here is.

Just don't let it happen again.

 

[Koolthulu]

To what end though? Sure, it is nice to get gear playing. At least half the gear I'm wearing in D3 I've got as drops.

The thing about Torchlight 2, the whole game feels like what is the point? If gear is so easy in a week when you've been level 100 for 3 days what is going to keep you playing? Yea, all this bad ass gear drops so quickly, then what.

Mechanically, I don't like half the stuff in game, and people's answer is going to be it will be fixed by modders. Why should basic things have to be fixed by someone else?

Things are small, it can sometimes be really hard to identify what is a mob and what is just something on the ground. There is no real deliniation, which is probably because the game has an incredibly flat appearance. If you zoom in even a little your field of view starts to take a massive dump.

The map is horrendous. Why can't I move it around to make it easier to see what I have and haven't explored? Why when people in a multiplayer game move around does it not expand my map? If I fall a little behind because I was trying to look at the stuff in my bags it can be a pain to try to catch up to them.

The AI and ability clipping when you are targetting mobs to attack them is awful. Why can I just shoot my pistol and hit something, but then rapid fire clips the wall and doesn't hit it. Why if a mob is above me and completely out of range and I click it will I just stand there and swing my hammer at the wall without a prayer of hitting it.

Honestly, there are too many stats, and I really have no idea what half this stuff does. Do gems that increase electric damage actually increase my damage if I'm just shooting a pistol? Why can't I see what equiping something is going to do to my stats without equiping it?

Why can't I see certain things maintained? Like Engineers get the healing pet, but sometimes it disappears and I can't tell. Sometimes it's just out of range and not hitting me. It gets lost in mobs and I can't tell if it is just retarded and not hitting me, or got killed or something.

At least half your D3 gear is from drops? I have to ask what is the point of that? If you can't gear yourself in the game why even play it?

The graphics do feel a bit flat. Even more than TL1, oddly enough. Not really sure what happened there.

The map. Oh I do hate the map. Why it couldn't be bigger and movable I don't know, but I wish it was.

Honestly the controls don't feel any different than any of the other Diablo style games I've played. But why would you stand there trying to hit something if you knew you couldn't? The AI shouldn't play the game for you.

The game definitely could be clearer on the stats.

And yes seeing maintained spells/summons would be nice.

TL2 isn't perfect. But I've already played it more than I ever did D3 and am still having fun with it.

 

[Shalafi]

To what end though? Sure, it is nice to get gear playing. At least half the gear I'm wearing in D3 I've got as drops.

What's the point of playing a game where you buy your items off the Auction House? Takes away from the whole "I earned this" aspect of the game.

The thing about Torchlight 2, the whole game feels like what is the point? If gear is so easy in a week when you've been level 100 for 3 days what is going to keep you playing? Yea, all this bad ass gear drops so quickly, then what.

Not every game is gonna be worth 500 hours of gameplay, the only limit to how much time ANYBODY invests in a game is by how satisfied they are by still playing it, once that satisfaction stops, so does their time investment in the game. Doesn't matter who or what game we are talking about, this is a basic principle of our human nature about any activity.

Mechanically, I don't like half the stuff in game, and people's answer is going to be it will be fixed by modders. Why should basic things have to be fixed by someone else?

Far worse games have been cleaned up by modders and games have been made even better thanks to mods, I think you're just grasping at straws with this one. Past history proves out what I said here.

Things are small, it can sometimes be really hard to identify what is a mob and what is just something on the ground. There is no real deliniation, which is probably because the game has an incredibly flat appearance. If you zoom in even a little your field of view starts to take a massive dump.

I don't know what to say to this one, sounds like you aren't used to the game yet.

The map is horrendous. Why can't I move it around to make it easier to see what I have and haven't explored? Why when people in a multiplayer game move around does it not expand my map? If I fall a little behind because I was trying to look at the stuff in my bags it can be a pain to try to catch up to them.

You can always ask the other person(s) to hold up a minute. I do agree that a movable map should be mandatory for games like this.

The AI and ability clipping when you are targetting mobs to attack them is awful. Why can I just shoot my pistol and hit something, but then rapid fire clips the wall and doesn't hit it. Why if a mob is above me and completely out of range and I click it will I just stand there and swing my hammer at the wall without a prayer of hitting it.

Just a quirk of the game. Lots of games have hitbox collision quirks. Doesn't stop anybody from enjoying them except in the most egregious of cases.

Honestly, there are too many stats, and I really have no idea what half this stuff does. Do gems that increase electric damage actually increase my damage if I'm just shooting a pistol? Why can't I see what equiping something is going to do to my stats without equiping it?

Maybe you should read up on them then? The best way to understand stuff is to do research.

Why can't I see certain things maintained? Like Engineers get the healing pet, but sometimes it disappears and I can't tell. Sometimes it's just out of range and not hitting me. It gets lost in mobs and I can't tell if it is just retarded and not hitting me, or got killed or something.

This is a valid criticism, they should make the pets a little more unique and easier to track.

For what it's worth, I think you have a right to your opinion and criticism of the game, but I think your view on it is heavily slanted by a seeming affection for Diablo 3 and your attachment is less on this game because your attachment is still strong to Diablo 3 and it hinders you from being able to objectively enjoy Torchlight 2 for what it is.

Just my personal opinion.

 

[tehslippery]

At least half your D3 gear is from drops? I have to ask what is the point of that? If you can't gear yourself in the game why even play it?

The graphics do feel a bit flat. Even more than TL1, oddly enough. Not really sure what happened there.

The map. Oh I do hate the map. Why it couldn't be bigger and movable I don't know, but I wish it was.

Honestly the controls don't feel any different than any of the other Diablo style games I've played. But why would you stand there trying to hit something if you knew you couldn't? The AI shouldn't play the game for you.

The game definitely could be clearer on the stats.

And yes seeing maintained spells/summons would be nice.

TL2 isn't perfect. But I've already played it more than I ever did D3 and am still having fun with it.

To me, farming gear to sell and then buying gear I want is no different then getting the gear as a drop. It just adds player interaction.

I don't stand there attacking something I can't hit, but it's frustrating when I click an npc to attack and the game runs me in to a corner and tries to swing at it when I can't actually hit it.

D3 has improved a ton since launch, and the upcoming patch also looks good. TL2 seems like there are a lot of things that they are just waiting for modders to do for them. Like why can you only respec 3 skills? You know that is going to be the first mod out the gate. Let people experiment and play around with things, not be locked in.

 

[Skizzy]

To me, farming gear to sell and then buying gear I want is no different then getting the gear as a drop. It just adds player interaction.

I don't stand there attacking something I can't hit, but it's frustrating when I click an npc to attack and the game runs me in to a corner and tries to swing at it when I can't actually hit it.

D3 has improved a ton since launch, and the upcoming patch also looks good. TL2 seems like there are a lot of things that they are just waiting for modders to do for them. Like why can you only respec 3 skills? You know that is going to be the first mod out the gate. Let people experiment and play around with things, not be locked in.

Did you enjoy D2 or D3 better? It sounds like the latter. If so, I am not going to bother replying to anymore of your posts since our opinion on games greatly differs. I'm not calling your opinion wrong, but our thoughts would differ so much that there would honestly be no point, and I feel that horse has already been beaten dead.

Did you just say the D3 Auction House is... player interaction? How are you interacting with a player when you click a button to buy an item? It's so much more gratifying to kill a boss and see an item drop you want than press a button to get it. That's not fun at all.

More stats is good. Helps you make your character exactly how you want it, instead of primarily focusing on one stat, like D3. You can't reset your stats (AFAIK), so you are stuck to live with your choices. I feel this helps you become more attached to your character. If it sucks, it's probably your fault. What do you do then? Get better gear, set down the difficulty, play with some friends, or suck it up and reroll, and then facesmash since you have your stats where you like them. If you want to download a mod to reset your skills or stats, that's on you. If this came out of the box like that, I would be disappointed though.

I think there are more mods that improve a game rather than fix it. Mods aren't a bad thing. It means more content, while the developers can worry about their own content. Remember, they're a team of 25. And they're competing against fucking Blizzard. And doing a damn well good job of it too.

 

[Serpent]

Did you just say the D3 Auction House is... player interaction? How are you interacting with a player when you click a button to buy an item? It's so much more gratifying to kill a boss and see an item drop you want than press a button to get it. That's not fun at all.

Hahaha.. yea I loved that too.

As far as I know, it seems like D3 has even less player interaction with others than Torchlight 2. Then again, this is from the fact that my friend was going on about people stripping your characters due to bugs when you play with them. But...... I didn't play D3 past the first go, so I never experienced it.

Is that fixed? If it isn't, then Blizzard is even sadder than I originally thought.

 

[stevedave]

Just Passed it and started in New Game +.....not sure what that will be.

Cons
Flat boring graphics, Lack of proper documentation on skills and stats, Lack of customization on things like maps, Bad and boring questing, Can't comment on the story because no matter how hard I tried I couldn't bring myself to care, over all feeling is that of a 20 dollar game, looks and feels like a kids game.

Pros
MultiPlayer Arpg for 20 bucks, Loot system works pretty well, 3 monitor support, Open and mod-able, More D2 feel than D3 had.

it gets 7/10 without taking cost into consideration....considering cost 9/10. It shouldn't be compared to heavily with Diablo 3 because the games are so significantly different while being technically the exact same.

I own these 3 and rate them as so.......Take cost into consideration you pretty much get the same value out of all 3.......I'm counting BL2 as 40 because that's what many got it for.

9/10 - Diablo 3 $60
8/10 - Boarderlands 2 $40
7/10 - TL2 $20

 

[cageymaru]

Just Passed it and started in New Game +.....not sure what that will be.

Cons
Flat boring graphics, Lack of proper documentation on skills and stats, Lack of customization on things like maps, Bad and boring questing, Can't comment on the story because no matter how hard I tried I couldn't bring myself to care, over all feeling is that of a 20 dollar game, looks and feels like a kids game.

Pros
MultiPlayer Arpg for 20 bucks, Loot system works pretty well, 3 monitor support, Open and mod-able, More D2 feel than D3 had.

it gets 7/10 without taking cost into consideration....considering cost 9/10. It shouldn't be compared to heavily with Diablo 3 because the games are so significantly different while being technically the exact same.

I own these 3 and rate them as so.......Take cost into consideration you pretty much get the same value out of all 3.......I'm counting BL2 as 40 because that's what many got it for.

9/10 - Diablo 3 $60
8/10 - Boarderlands 2 $40
7/10 - TL2 $20

I can only rate D3 as 6/10 at most because there really isn't a game there. I mean there is supposed to be a game but there aren't any drops for my character that I'm playing. I completely divorced myself from the AH and RMAH to get enjoyment out of the game and it's lacking a gear upgrade path without the AH. I get 0 satisfaction buying gear off the AH and I get pissed every time I realize that it's the only reason to play and logout.

It does things right even though the game's stat and skill system is very elementary school level. Because it's so simplistic it's easy to just switch skills and continue on if you're bored of killing the same mobs in the same place and doing the same quests every run through. The end game is very limited by the lack of diversity. I'd say it's almost nonexistent. It's just the same map repeated daily looking for the upgrade that never comes unless you buy it off the AH.

Because the game is missing a loot system that is fun, real concrete choice to my character's future, and a true stats system I can't give it over a 6/10. If it was from an Indie firm it would be a 3/10 for nice try at breaking into the genre. I'm giving Blizzard the benefit of the doubt and spotting them 3 points for patches like the Paragon levels and hopefully not broken pvp even though they never got WoW arena balanced right.

D3 does have nice animations though. Maybe their art team will leave next and join Runic or start their own studio.

 

[errer]

I am heavily addicted to blands 2 atm but I picked this up on impulse and damn after a hour of play this game reminds me alot of d2. Kind of funny the art and the music remind me of the older blizz games more so than the new games/expansions blizz puts out. Definitely worth 20 bucks! I

 

[stevedave]

I can only rate D3 as 6/10 at most because there really isn't a game there. I mean there is supposed to be a game but there aren't any drops for my character that I'm playing. I completely divorced myself from the AH and RMAH to get enjoyment out of the game and it's lacking a gear upgrade path without the AH. I get 0 satisfaction buying gear off the AH and I get pissed every time I realize that it's the only reason to play and logout.

It does things right even though the game's stat and skill system is very elementary school level. Because it's so simplistic it's easy to just switch skills and continue on if you're bored of killing the same mobs in the same place and doing the same quests every run through. The end game is very limited by the lack of diversity. I'd say it's almost nonexistent. It's just the same map repeated daily looking for the upgrade that never comes unless you buy it off the AH.

Because the game is missing a loot system that is fun, real concrete choice to my character's future, and a true stats system I can't give it over a 6/10. If it was from an Indie firm it would be a 3/10 for nice try at breaking into the genre. I'm giving Blizzard the benefit of the doubt and spotting them 3 points for patches like the Paragon levels and hopefully not broken pvp even though they never got WoW arena balanced right.

D3 does have nice animations though. Maybe their art team will leave next and join Runic or start their own studio.

I wish people would be able to find the true root of their issue and say it flat out. The root of the issue for most of the people who dislike D3 is the ethics and public relations behind the auction house (which by the way is a perfectly good reason to dislike a game).

For example you say "I mean there is supposed to be a game but there aren't any drops for my character that I'm playing."

This statement is complete bull shit that you typed as an expressions of your hatred of the fact that Blizzard built in a method to make money off their users through the auction house. Hating Blizzard for making this move is perfectly acceptable and understandable. There is nothing wrong with saying "I give D3 a 6/10 because they built in a profit generating auction house and a loot/difficulty system that highly incentivises the use of that profit engine" We all hate blizzard at least a little bit for this move but that is no reason to manufacture faults that aren't there to fuel the hate of the auction house.

your statement is bull shit because anyone and everyone can make it too inferno without using the auction house while finding plenty of good gear from monsters and shops. And with enough grinding Inferno.....I passed Inferno Pre 1.0.3 without using the auction house once. You just want the statement to be true because it would give you another reason to hate the game and hate blizzard for their greed.

Ignoring the Auction House and the Hate generated by it Diablo 3's core game engine is significantly better than TL2. So much so that IMO they aren't on the same level.

Another reason they aren't on the same level is for me Diablo 3 is an Action Inventory Game. Because the core of the game is Action Based Gameplay and Inventory there is no character development.....In my eyes its very similar to Gunstar Heroes on the genesis.

TL2 & D2 are ARPG's. You build a character thoughout the game that making it unique to you....well mostly unique. This provides a completely different experience than D3......

 

[cageymaru]

I wish people would be able to find the true root of their issue and say it flat out. The root of the issue for most of the people who dislike D3 is the ethics and public relations behind the auction house (which by the way is a perfectly good reason to dislike a game).

For example you say "I mean there is supposed to be a game but there aren't any drops for my character that I'm playing."

This statement is complete bull shit that you typed as an expressions of your hatred of the fact that Blizzard built in a method to make money off their users through the auction house. Hating Blizzard for making this move is perfectly acceptable and understandable. There is nothing wrong with saying "I give D3 a 6/10 because they built in a profit generating auction house and a loot/difficulty system that highly incentivises the use of that profit engine" We all hate blizzard at least a little bit for this move but that is no reason to manufacture faults that aren't there to fuel the hate of the auction house.

your statement is bull shit because anyone and everyone can make it too inferno without using the auction house while finding plenty of good gear from monsters and shops. And with enough grinding Inferno.....I passed Inferno Pre 1.0.3 without using the auction house once. You just want the statement to be true because it would give you another reason to hate the game and hate blizzard for their greed.

Ignoring the Auction House and the Hate generated by it Diablo 3's core game engine is significantly better than TL2. So much so that IMO they aren't on the same level.

Another reason they aren't on the same level is for me Diablo 3 is an Action Inventory Game. Because the core of the game is Action Based Gameplay and Inventory there is no character development.....In my eyes its very similar to Gunstar Heroes on the genesis.

TL2 & D2 are ARPG's. You build a character thoughout the game that making it unique to you....well mostly unique. This provides a completely different experience than D3......

I never got an upgrade in D3 unless I bought it from the AH from level 8 until level 60 and entered Inferno. If you think that's "fun" then go play more D3 as that's the perfect game for you. I can't stand it personally as I think that paying for upgrades instead of playing and getting them from killing mobs is really boring. Zzzz.

Honestly it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. Who would want to play a game and get nothing but gold? Then go to a spreadsheet and buy upgrades. What dummy thought that would be fun?

As far as Blizzard making money off the RMAH I could care less. If someone is dumb enough to spend money there because they're impatient or their time is so compressed that they feel as if they need to spend money to stay relevant to their friends in the game it's cool. Got zero issues with that as I've played Aion with gold sellers in my guild and they never bothered me for one second. Why would Blizzard taking on the role of gold seller sway my idea of what is fun game play?

D3 as a game could have been good. It should have been good. To me it's garbage because my idea of fun is playing the game to get upgrades from skill or time spent killing bosses. Blizzard could have implemented the auction house into the game and allowed people that put time into the game killing bosses to get geared both ways. Just let the bosses drop relevant loot. What's so hard with accepting the notion that playing a game and getting items off bosses is more fun than getting gold to buy items off an auction house?

What's wrong with drops like TL2? I get unique items and I'm ecstatic to play more. I want to go go go for more loot. I love the loot. I want to get my spec better so I can kill faster so I can see more loot. In D3 I get gold and I leave shit laying on the ground because it's absolute rubbish gear. I logged into D3 2 days before TL2 came out and played for 4 hours. I decided to leave the shitty items on the ground after identifying them to see how many items are really relevant in D3.

Know how many items I kept after 4 hours? 0. Nadda. Zilch. Nothing. I made quite a bit of gold though just from killing mobs even though I didn't vendor anything. What fun is that? Tell me honestly how can you play a game that is all about the loot and get 0 loot? Please explain this new phenomenon! These games are all about loot. That is the genre. Loot, loot, loot and more loot. A game with no loot is a game devoid of life in this genre. There even is a game entitled "Hack, Slash, Loot".

Know how many legendary items I got in over 200 hours of D3? 1 and it was absolute crap. I've gotten 3 unique items in TL2 and I'm only level 10 on my latest character. My other characters have about the same amount of unique items in that same time frame.

Now guess which game I enjoy playing more.

 

[Skizzy]

As far as Blizzard making money off the RMAH I could care less.

You could?

 

[cageymaru]

You could?

"Can", "Could", whatever. LOL! Honestly I don't mind them making money off their game post release. It would be cool if they added the AH as an alternative way to gear up. The way they integrated it and then made relevant drops within the game world nonexistent almost is the problem. Why does D3 inferno drop level 50 stuff other than to troll it's player base?

 

[mr_zen256]

I'm definitely glad TL2 came along when it did. After the initial hype of D3 wore off I just found myself more and more disappointed with the design decisions and appalling loot system. It just wasn't satisfying in the slightest. I also preferred the skill & stat system of D2 so thankfully TL2 brings some of that old skool customization back into the mix.

I'm glad that TL2 has stuck close to it's predecessor in many of the gameplay mechanics and they have definitely polished and improved upon many aspects. I especially like that TL2 is broken up into acts now and has a nice overworld opposed to just a dungeon going deeper.

All I know is that, subjectively, I am getting far more enjoyment out of TL2 than I did with D3. Especially in regards to loot. Best 20 bucks spent this year.

 

[Breath_of_the_Dying]

Whats the best way to complete set items?

I keep getting stuck at 3/4 or 4/5 when I'm aiming for that last item. Most of them are bought off the vendor and not found, so I'm really not sure how to get that last piece.

Also, some my abilities as an embermage are based my dps. Does that mean that increased attack speed from items or set bonuses increases my spell damage as well. I assume faster cast rate just makes me cast my magma spear faster, but what about increased attack speed?

 

[tehslippery]

Go to enchant an item on a merchant, which unequips it, causing the loss of some stats, which causes other gear to become unequiped, which causes the loss of more stats, and other items to be unequiped.

End up standing in town with 7 pieces of gear unequiped with no way to put them back on. Congratulations fucked character because it treats enchanting an item on a merchant as unequiping it.

 

[LigTasm]

Whats the best way to complete set items?

I keep getting stuck at 3/4 or 4/5 when I'm aiming for that last item. Most of them are bought off the vendor and not found, so I'm really not sure how to get that last piece.

Also, some my abilities as an embermage are based my dps. Does that mean that increased attack speed from items or set bonuses increases my spell damage as well. I assume faster cast rate just makes me cast my magma spear faster, but what about increased attack speed?

I stupidly bought some items off of the vendors for my current set, and now I have looted another full set off of the mini-bosses. Also, IIRC wearing the pieces you do have increases your change of getting more.

Just a quick question to people talking about the map movement, does the m key not satisfy your needs, for example are you looking for a map you can click and drag around? I would really like that as well, its much more in the way than the last game I played with the same map style (D2). The mini-map doesn't zoom well so I find myself opening up the overlay map a lot.

I like all the movie references, kind of silly but its true. When I killed "one eyed willy" the pirate I thought I was watching the goonies all over again.

 

[cageymaru]

Whats the best way to complete set items?

I keep getting stuck at 3/4 or 4/5 when I'm aiming for that last item. Most of them are bought off the vendor and not found, so I'm really not sure how to get that last piece.

Also, some my abilities as an embermage are based my dps. Does that mean that increased attack speed from items or set bonuses increases my spell damage as well. I assume faster cast rate just makes me cast my magma spear faster, but what about increased attack speed?

In TL1 I went from vendor to vendor looking for the set items and they would have different items for sale. So vendor A might have gloves this time but boots the next. How it works in TL 2 I'm not sure as I'm starting a new character with a different spec to try that out next.

These type games need a warning label. May cause addiction in some humanoids such as nerds, social misfits, and students. Even older members of society may be affected.

The dps stuff I don't know as I refuse to spoil the game for myself just yet although I botched one Elite build already. Well I can fix it but it's more fun to start over for a bit.

 

[FighterAce124]

Go to enchant an item on a merchant, which unequips it, causing the loss of some stats, which causes other gear to become unequiped, which causes the loss of more stats, and other items to be unequiped.

End up standing in town with 7 pieces of gear unequiped with no way to put them back on. Congratulations fucked character because it treats enchanting an item on a merchant as unequiping it.

Uh... so whats the issue? You had all the gear on in the first place, which means if you put it back on in the right order, it'll be perfectly fine... You cant wear something you dont have stats for, it's not possible. If you were wearing it before, you can wear it again. You cant lose stats and keep an item equipped that you dont meet the requirements for.

 

[tehslippery]

Uh... so whats the issue? You had all the gear on in the first place, which means if you put it back on in the right order, it'll be perfectly fine... You cant wear something you dont have stats for, it's not possible. If you were wearing it before, you can wear it again. You cant lose stats and keep an item equipped that you dont meet the requirements for.

The stat combinations on the gear caused it not to be equipable again. I tried to enchant an item with 49 focus, which caused 2 items with 20 dex each to unequip, which caused the other 4 items to unequip with a combination of vit an dex. With all the pieces off I don't have the stats to equip any of them. None of the gear gets equiped in a vacuum from scratch. If I could equip either a dex piece or the focus piece I'd be able to equip it all again, but instead I'm left with 7 pieces I had on in my bags. I just tried to enchant a piece that was apparently the most important.

 

[mr_zen256]

The stat combinations on the gear caused it not to be equipable again. I tried to enchant an item with 49 focus, which caused 2 items with 20 dex each to unequip, which caused the other 4 items to unequip with a combination of vit an dex. With all the pieces off I don't have the stats to equip any of them. None of the gear gets equiped in a vacuum from scratch. If I could equip either a dex piece or the focus piece I'd be able to equip it all again, but instead I'm left with 7 pieces I had on in my bags. I just tried to enchant a piece that was apparently the most important.

Heh, that's pretty unlucky! Same thing could happen in Torchlight 1 also. Enchanting always comes with a small chance of having negative effect.

Half the fun is taking those chances and knowing there is risk involved.. Just like life

 

[khaki]

I never got an upgrade in D3 unless I bought it from the AH from level 8 until level 60 and entered Inferno. If you think that's "fun" then go play more D3 as that's the perfect game for you. I can't stand it personally as I think that paying for upgrades instead of playing and getting them from killing mobs is really boring. Zzzz.

Honestly it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. Who would want to play a game and get nothing but gold? Then go to a spreadsheet and buy upgrades. What dummy thought that would be fun?

As far as Blizzard making money off the RMAH I could care less. If someone is dumb enough to spend money there because they're impatient or their time is so compressed that they feel as if they need to spend money to stay relevant to their friends in the game it's cool. Got zero issues with that as I've played Aion with gold sellers in my guild and they never bothered me for one second. Why would Blizzard taking on the role of gold seller sway my idea of what is fun game play?

D3 as a game could have been good. It should have been good. To me it's garbage because my idea of fun is playing the game to get upgrades from skill or time spent killing bosses. Blizzard could have implemented the auction house into the game and allowed people that put time into the game killing bosses to get geared both ways. Just let the bosses drop relevant loot. What's so hard with accepting the notion that playing a game and getting items off bosses is more fun than getting gold to buy items off an auction house?

What's wrong with drops like TL2? I get unique items and I'm ecstatic to play more. I want to go go go for more loot. I love the loot. I want to get my spec better so I can kill faster so I can see more loot. In D3 I get gold and I leave shit laying on the ground because it's absolute rubbish gear. I logged into D3 2 days before TL2 came out and played for 4 hours. I decided to leave the shitty items on the ground after identifying them to see how many items are really relevant in D3.

Know how many items I kept after 4 hours? 0. Nadda. Zilch. Nothing. I made quite a bit of gold though just from killing mobs even though I didn't vendor anything. What fun is that? Tell me honestly how can you play a game that is all about the loot and get 0 loot? Please explain this new phenomenon! These games are all about loot. That is the genre. Loot, loot, loot and more loot. A game with no loot is a game devoid of life in this genre. There even is a game entitled "Hack, Slash, Loot".

Know how many legendary items I got in over 200 hours of D3? 1 and it was absolute crap. I've gotten 3 unique items in TL2 and I'm only level 10 on my latest character. My other characters have about the same amount of unique items in that same time frame.

Now guess which game I enjoy playing more.

1000x this. Sums up my thoughts on D3 almost perfectly.

TL2 is not a perfect game. I don't like it as much as D2 and Titan Quest. But its loot system is miles and miles ahead of Diablo 3's.

I have issues with the story, graphics and skill systems in TL2, none of which are memorable at all, but the loot system alone should give this about as much playtime as D3 for me. Consider that it is 1/3 the price and it's a steal. Honestly, in this genre, loot is priority #1, and Diablo 3 got loot so, so , utterly, completely, wrong.

 

[Godmachine]

So here are my impressions of TL2 so far and I'm going to get my personal beliefs on the whole TL2 vs D3 argument out of the way right now.

D3 : I know a lot of people love to bring up the always on DRM but please , that really doesn't effect the core game as it stands right now. It may down the line if Blizzard decides to ever take D3 "offline" but that isn't going to happen anytime soon (I mean D2's online service still works over a decade later).

So let's break down D3 a bit. This is purely my personal critical opinion of it. You may think D3 is just the tits of 2012 , that's great , go back to playing and enjoy.

1. It has a weak story line , compared to the first 2 Diablo games it's just not that interesting. Not that Diablo had a great story line to begin with but you can tell that the story just wasn't a main focus for the team. In all fairness TL2 has a completely non-existent story line that no one gives a shit about so both games fail in this regard.

2. Diablo 3's end game is really an issue with game mechanics more than it is a function of extending the game's play value. You fight harder versions of the same NPC's in the hope for higher end loot. This is the bread and butter of long term Diablo play. However it could be argued that D3's end game was both poorly envisioned and executed. Blizzard is attempting to mend it and while that's all great and good as it stands right now every patch seems to break certain mechanics and or encourage stat abuse on certain items (this could happen with TL2 though as well to be fair) which brings me to my next problem with D3.

3. Diablo 3's auction house and RMAH. This is probably what throws most veteran Diablo players into a frenzy in terms of change. Most logical arguments tend to eventually concede that the AH as a whole has altered D3 for the worse. Auction House's are a staple for MMO's and in that sense they work well. MMO's encourage months if not years of play so such a system has major advantages to those with different play styles and influences the in game economy. But in a dungeon crawler like Diablo 3 it has instead been turned into a gear hunting system for the end game. And for some players a real monthly income ( personally know someone that has made a few thousand in the last couple of months farming and selling gear on the RMAH). The auction house in D3 has truly few benefits and in a game where item hording is wildly encouraged , it has forced players to use the AH in order to seek the end game gear they want (although Blizzard is attempting to offer easier paths to such gear without the use of the AH through patching).

4. PVP , this is non-existent in D3 so I can't really comment at all about it. Blizzard keeps pushing back its release of PVP because of all the other issues they've had to deal with in terms of game balancing , bugs and auction house issues. Until they add this functionality , no one knows if this will enhance or push D3 into further ruin.

Those are my thoughts on D3 and its weak points. I don't play D3 anymore because I don't really feel the drawn to , I played D2 on and off for years but D3 is in all honesty just not my cup of tea.

Now for TL2 :


1. Its simplified. I don't mean to imply that its dumbed down for more casual playing (the higher difficulty is downright brutal). But I find that TL2 is far more encouraging toward your choices than D3 , D3 essentially lays a brick road you must follow and if you deviate you will die and a lot. People who don't play dungeon crawlers will often ask me what I'm playing simply because of the look of TL and I'll encourage them to give it a shot which brings me to my next point.

2. CHEAP. For the amount of content you get in TL2 , its a fucking steal. As its been stated you could buy 3 copies of TL2 for the price of one D3. Its pretty hard to argue that point. Both games have pretty terrible story lines and you likely are not playing them for that reason alone. Both TL2 and D3 have good co-op game play but again TL2 has co-op game play at a much cheaper price point.

3. PVP. You can enable yourself to appear hostile to other players (and if they are also enabled hostile) and go to town if you want. Now granted , the game isn't balanced for PVP right now at all .. at least the option is there from day 1 (Blizzard .. you should be writing this down). Plus over time when PVP balancing actually begins the game will have yet another path in how the player wishes to play it. This should be a day 1 feature in such games as the more options players have , the happier they will be.

4. MODS. I know Blizzard would never allow mods in the Diablo franchise. They've only really allowed them in Starcraft , Warcraft RTS games and WoW. But TL2 supports modding and that's a HUGE automatic win in my book. That again extends the gameplay value by another factor be offering the inspiration of mods into the game sphere. Genius move from those developers and a major leg up on Blizzard.



Having broken down certain portions of both games ( and I have cherry picked to be fair to D3) I've personally come to the conclusion that while Diablo 3 is a good game and does have some interesting play value to be had , it is not worth $60 at this point and time. Unless you plan to make D3 your "stay at home job" by farming it to pay your real life bills , I just couldn't recommend it over TL2 at a $20 price point. I think even the most jaded D3 fanboy should buy TL2 and give it a shot. Its only $20 and if you hate it then you haven't lost that much have you?

 

[Breath_of_the_Dying]

So I guess D3 vs TL2 is the new Team Jacob vs Team Edward. Someone should make Tshirts so we know what side everyone is on.

 

[Godmachine]

So I guess D3 vs TL2 is the new Team Jacob vs Team Edward. Someone should make Tshirts so we know what side everyone is on.

Except we all know Team Jacob is better because Team Edward has a trampire

 

[mr_zen256]

Except we all know Team Jacob is better because Team Edward has a trampire

Totally OT but couldn't resist - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmxSk0wZxss

 

[Godmachine]

Totally OT but couldn't resist - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmxSk0wZxss

Lol great video.

 

[qwertyaas]

Just changed to 2H Hammer from Cannon on my Engi. It might be due to the Hammer being orange and only have blue cannons, but my Engi destroys everything with the 2H - and the life steal is awesome. Annoying that I pumped 5 into Blast Cannon so far but other than that I only put points in Heal Bot and Passives (Heavy Lifting, Bulwak and Aegis).

Now I'm debating if I should forget about cannons and go 2H.

 

[cageymaru]

Oh is that a new television show? They look kinda weird. What is it about? Why do they all have "bed head"?

I should get my TV out of the closet where it has been sitting for the past 4 years.

 

[NickJames]

For some reason the people behind Diablo 3 treated it like WOW where time = money. No I don't want to grind for 1000 hours to get good gear, I left WOW for that reason!

 

[cageymaru]

For some reason the people behind Diablo 3 treated it like WOW where time = money. No I don't want to grind for 1000 hours to get good gear, I left WOW for that reason!

No, it's purely random drops in D3. So you could grind for a million hours and theoretically never see an item for your toon that you're playing. Or always roll low on every item or wrong stats. That's what it felt like when I was playing anyways. I'm sure the D3 guys can tell you that I'm wrong, but that's how it seemed.

Anyways let's talk some TL2. How far in are you'll so far?

 

[NickJames]

No, it's purely random drops in D3. So you could grind for a million hours and theoretically never see an item for your toon that you're playing. Or always roll low on every item or wrong stats. That's what it felt like when I was playing anyways. I'm sure the D3 guys can tell you that I'm wrong, but that's how it seemed.

Anyways let's talk some TL2. How far in are you'll so far?

I know it's random but they can atleast adjust the %tage. WOW saw this formula wasn't working anymore and made people loot tokens instead.

 

[Maplehamwich]

I was having issues connecting to friends' games last night. Not sure what that was about. Everything worked fine on Saturday, then on Sunday I couldn't find my friends' games in the browser and when we switched it around, they couldn't find mine. No matter what we tried, we were never able to locate each others' games. Super dissapointing. I hope it was a random glitch that gets fixed today.

 

[Bankie]

Just changed to 2H Hammer from Cannon on my Engi. It might be due to the Hammer being orange and only have blue cannons, but my Engi destroys everything with the 2H - and the life steal is awesome. Annoying that I pumped 5 into Blast Cannon so far but other than that I only put points in Heal Bot and Passives (Heavy Lifting, Bulwak and Aegis).

Now I'm debating if I should forget about cannons and go 2H.

I started my Engi as a sword-n-board but it was taking way too long kill mobs (went straight for Veteran difficulty) and switched to 2h when a unique mace dropped. I've been pumping most of my points into the 2h specialization and ember smash? skills and just run around one to three shotting everything short of Champions.

 

[Sn0_Man]

How does dual-wielding work in this game? Is it similar to D3 where you alternate hits but gain a 15% attack speed bonus or what? If all you get is the execute chance, well that seems pretty mediocre compared to a shield (at least on berserkers). Especially since I've put 5 points total into focus at level 30.

Also, I like how easy it is to find at least 2-3 set items together, but none of the set bonuses have been worth using for more than... 5 levels tops. Maybe once I get higher level and the progression slows a bit?

 

[FrEaKy]

This is all I need to say

1 word review = awesome.

 

[stevedave]

How does dual-wielding work in this game? Is it similar to D3 where you alternate hits but gain a 15% attack speed bonus or what? If all you get is the execute chance, well that seems pretty mediocre compared to a shield (at least on berserkers). Especially since I've put 5 points total into focus at level 30.

Also, I like how easy it is to find at least 2-3 set items together, but none of the set bonuses have been worth using for more than... 5 levels tops. Maybe once I get higher level and the progression slows a bit?

as far as I could tel you get nothing for duel wielding beyond abilities that say more damage when duel wielding.

I used some 2 hander, 1 hand + Shield, and 2 Hander and found 2 hander to be the best for the engineer the Passive for increased attack speed on 2 handers is nice.