Too Many Games on the Market

Comixbooks

Comixbooks

Fully [H]
Joined
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I was thinking why there are no games that really stand out. There are simply too many games that cancel each other out. Game A is similar to Game B but game C is the same as Game A and B which one does a person commit to.

Being gamers have short attention spans it's hard to make decision.

What it really takes is something like a MMO that was in development for 10 years to stand out from the pack. Or a new Genre with new mechanics that actually engage the consumer.
 
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I thought this season was OK-ish in terms of quality. The only standout games I played were:

1) Spider Man 2
2) Crew Motorfest (for my arcade racing fill)
3) Ass Creed Mirage (for my Ubi goty fill)
4) Robocop (for my old school shooter fix)
5) Forza Motorsport (for my racing driving fix)
6) COD MW3 (for my MP fill)
7) SF6 (for my fighting game fix)
8) Cyberpunk expansion (for my shooter / RPG fix)

Each had tons of problems for me except Spider Man 2 and SF6 which were sublime.

Still in the backlog is Starfield and Alan Wake 2. Both games have tons of issues. SF is something I will play for sure. Alan Wake 2 will play in December when there are no new releases.
Didn't purchase MK1 (the juggling gameplay is not for me - will buy for story maybe when it is 10-15 bucks), BG3 (no time), Sonic (new game but not feeling like playing it) and Avatar (as I am not in the mood for stupidity).

Still some games to come out in Nov/Dec but nothing that catches my eyes. Also didn't buy a single game in the supposed BF/CM deals that are around now.
 
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KickAssCop said:
1) Spider Man 2
2) Crew Motorfest (for my arcade racing fill)
3) Ass Creed Mirage (for my Ubi goty fill)
4) Robocop (for my old school shooter fix)
5) Forza Motorsport (for my racing driving fix)
6) COD MW3 (for my MP fill)
7) SF6 (for my fighting game fix)
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All of these are old IPs and old gameplay games. These are all total conversions of better games.

I'm not criticizing your choices. I'm saying that about all choices. There is nothing new happening.
 
If you want real innovation, you pretty much have to move to the VR space now. That's were devs are still figuring out the best ways to handle the different perspective that comes with VR and how to navigate the games and UIs in them to be the most intuitive and fun.

Otherwise, yeah we've pretty much plataued with all of the available genres in games and the only way they can differentiate themselves is in their execution and/or by doing something so radically different that it likely won't appeal to the masses (where most indie games come in). You can say the same for many other products, such as cars; whenever you mention a car to someone they usually will say something like "yeah that car just looks like a knockoff of this other car.." and of course the other car they're mentioning likely derived its aesthetic from something else before it as well.

So at this point, we're mostly just constantly tweaking and adjusting smaller gameplay elements of games just enough to differentiate them from the other games they borrowed from and sell you more of the same ultimately. With how huge the market has grown too, I've been saying for years that they could stop making games today and I'm pretty sure I have enough in my backlog to last me for several years at this point, and these are all AAA or AA games for the most part.

This is also why MS's Game Pass service doesn't appeal to me; I have enough AAA/AA games that I'd rather play when I have time that I see no reason to waste time playing mostly mediocre games exclusive to that service. But I also own every console and platform and generally the exclusives on those platforms make up most (maybe 3/4) of the best games I've ever played.
 
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Comixbooks said:
I was thinking why there are no games that really stand out. There are simply too many games that cancel each other out. Game A is similar to Game B but game C is the same as Game A and B do which one does a person commit to.

Bring gamers have short attention spans it's hard to make decision.

What it really takes is something like a MMO that was in development for 10 years to stand out from the pack. Or a new Genre with new mechanics that actually engage the consumer.
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All works are derivative. I think that this is simply not understanding the artform.

What you're looking for really is just someone with vision to make something that they want to see in the world. The difference between a "good game" or a "good movie" and not isn't necessarily whether it's derivative or not, it's whether or not the auteur has vision or not.

It's not as if Tarantino, Scorsese, Kubrick, or even Nolan are making films that aren't derivative.

Similarly games, like the movie world, will have chaff. Because there are people there making games that are about profit and not about passion. I've mentioned many times on these boards that really a game that's actually worth playing only comes once every two years. If you want to play all the CoD, EA, Ubisoft, Microsoft, and now even Blizzard garbage, then you're going to get what you pay for. But if you pay attention great games are still being made. Similarly the film world produces a studio amount of Marvel, Star Wars, sequel, and reboots. But excellent films have never stopped being made.

There is more content than ever before, but I would say, excellent content has been produced at the same rate. So if you pay attention to the wrong stuff, you'll always be disappointed. If you pay attention to the right stuff and are patient, then you never will be. In other words this is about perspective and it's about paying attention and knowing what's good. If you don't bother with either, then you get what you get.
 
My problem is lack of suspense the suspense in diminished due to how the game is rendered the music is repetitive there is no ambition in me to play it even without suspense. Something Souls clones do pretty well because they are harder by default and design.
Alan Wake 2 does it pretty good for suspense but it's on the rails type of game.
 
Axman said:
Which means the quality of content has diminished per unit of content.
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Yes. Show me an art form where that isn’t the case.

Music? Photography? Film? Games? TV?

What’s your point?

Mine is if you want good art, it takes patience and looking for it. If you’re expecting everything to be good and just handed to you, you’re going go simply learn the hard way that most creative works are trash.
 
there are still developers that try and innovate and create something different...the problem is that gamers don't buy those games and would rather stick to Call of Duty 25 and Far Cry 15

Deathloop being an example from 2021 which was an incredibly unique game...critics hailed it as a masterpiece and it got a lot of 10/10 scores...I personally gave it an 89/100 and thought it was unique but also didn't pull me into right away...it took awhile for everything to click...but sales while good were not on the level of other AAA games...Scorn was another example...that game was definitely more tedious and boring but it tried something new

Returnal is another example...again these games don't get the same player base as the typical Ubisoft copy and paste games...Returnal received critical acclaim for its gameplay loop...but it was challenging and unique therefore a lot of gamers avoided it
 
People on the Internet never run out of things to complain about do they?

I'm more active over at the Planet Virtualboy forums, and one of the things that we lament over more than almost anything is the sheer lack of games on the platform.

I think it's really funny to check in over here this morning to see somebody complaining about too many games being available for their platform of choice.

You always have the option to pass over games that don't personally interest you.

I don't like most hamburgers that I've tried, but I'd never waste my time and complaining that there are too many hamburger restaurant options in my town. There must be other people out there in the world that quite fancy hamburgers, otherwise I don't see how it could possibly be sustainable for their to be so many hamburger restaurants.
 
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ZodaEX said:
So are bad movies. And it's been this way for decades.
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The financial motives started shifting around 2015, though the groundwork for a lot of this started in 2011-2012. It is as recent as it is brutal.
 
ZodaEX said:
You never had an Atari 2600 or an NES growing up, did you? I can assure you that this isn't only a recent trend.
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What does that have to do with the deliberate dumbing down of video games today?
 
UnknownSouljer said:
All works are derivative. I think that this is simply not understanding the artform.

What you're looking for really is just someone with vision to make something that they want to see in the world. The difference between a "good game" or a "good movie" and not isn't necessarily whether it's derivative or not, it's whether or not the auteur has vision or not.

It's not as if Tarantino, Scorsese, Kubrick, or even Nolan are making films that aren't derivative.

Similarly games, like the movie world, will have chaff. Because there are people there making games that are about profit and not about passion. I've mentioned many times on these boards that really a game that's actually worth playing only comes once every two years. If you want to play all the CoD, EA, Ubisoft, Microsoft, and now even Blizzard garbage, then you're going to get what you pay for. But if you pay attention great games are still being made. Similarly the film world produces a studio amount of Marvel, Star Wars, sequel, and reboots. But excellent films have never stopped being made.

There is more content than ever before, but I would say, excellent content has been produced at the same rate. So if you pay attention to the wrong stuff, you'll always be disappointed. If you pay attention to the right stuff and are patient, then you never will be. In other words this is about perspective and it's about paying attention and knowing what's good. If you don't bother with either, then you get what you get.
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That's part of it, but he could also just be aged out of the modern gaming audience. I.e. Things that I enjoy most about games are now considered bad gameplay design, thus even indie games won't add that. So, it's about finding that ultra niche diamond in a rough on stores with thousands of trash games. And it's going to be hard, because I can't necessarily trust reviews.
 
peppergomez said:
Something tells me you guys mostly only play AAA studio games, which explains why you'd be lamenting a lack of innovation.
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I don't play a lot of indie games but all of the ones I've looked at or played are all derivative, lack polish and have mediocre to bad visuals.

A lot of those games are retro nonsense which is far from innovative.
 
Dan_D said:
I don't play a lot of indie games but all of the ones I've looked at or played are all derivative, lack polish and have mediocre to bad visuals.

A lot of those games are retro nonsense which is far from innovative.
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Superhot was a mighty sweet "indie" title IMO (and innovative to boot)

But yea, that's the only one that immediately comes to mind..
 
Dan_D said:
I don't play a lot of indie games but all of the ones I've looked at or played are all derivative, lack polish and have mediocre to bad visuals.

A lot of those games are retro nonsense which is far from innovative.
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Title like Papers, please, Minecraft, Return Of The Obra Dinn, etc... were quite innovative.

In generals in games it is far from necessary to be, give me the most derivative affair, literal IP¨title from the most re-made game of all times like Baldur Gates 3 if it is well done over something original and innovative, there so much yet to be discovered game genre-mechanics, etc...
 
Dan_D said:
I don't play a lot of indie games but all of the ones I've looked at or played are all derivative, lack polish and have mediocre to bad visuals.

A lot of those games are retro nonsense which is far from innovative.
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Disco Elysium? Far Sails? Sunless Skies?

Not indie but the best shooter/rpg hybrid in existence is free to play - STALKER GAMMA. No excuse to miss that one if anyone enjoys that genre.
 
There aren't enough good AAA games. When we do get them, they suck. The gaming industry is living in the shadow of what it used to be. The best game in recent memory was the RE4 remake, which is pretty sad.

As far as indie or budget games? Yep, there are a million of them and most of them tend to be very similar.
 
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I think part of the problem is kids who grew up in Arcades and Amigas are retired already.
 
The older I get the less time I have to play or the latest games don't keep my attention for long. Everything is geared to be online now and then there is the grind it out games which don't really interest me.
 
Eh, I'm hopeful that we'll see a return to more complex titles with the resurgence of CRPGs (Wasteland 2-3, BG3, Pillars, etc).

Even these Battle Royale games with their crafting/inventory systems gives me hope that this will eventually lead into someone greenlighting a Starsiege: Tribes reboot with all the complexity of the original (instead of the modern push to make this series into a eSports title.)
 
ZodaEX said:
It doesn't and I never claimed that it did. My post was in response to your assertion regarding financial motives.
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Nytegard said:
That's part of it, but he could also just be aged out of the modern gaming audience.
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No, gaming has been poisoned. If you don't see the effects of Blackrock and Gamergate on gaming you're not gamers.
 
Axman said:
It used to be better. Bad games are downright deliberate at this point.
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I can tell you're hyper-cynical about the games industry. You're making that very clear. However the motivation for publishers to make games is money. Similarly it works the same way in the studio system in Hollywood. They are only doing what they can get away with. And that is the same as its ever been.
polonyc2 said:
there are still developers that try and innovate and create something different...the problem is that gamers don't buy those games and would rather stick to Call of Duty 25 and Far Cry 15

Deathloop being an example from 2021 which was an incredibly unique game...critics hailed it as a masterpiece and it got a lot of 10/10 scores...I personally gave it an 89/100 and thought it was unique but also didn't pull me into right away...it took awhile for everything to click...but sales while good were not on the level of other AAA games...Scorn was another example...that game was definitely more tedious and boring but it tried something new

Returnal is another example...again these games don't get the same player base as the typical Ubisoft copy and paste games...Returnal received critical acclaim for its gameplay loop...but it was challenging and unique therefore a lot of gamers avoided it
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The deal is, I don't see the point in crying about what AAA space is doing or what people buy or what the critics say or don't say. The complaining won't get you anywhere. It certainly will not get you "better games" or "better publishers". We all have to play the cards we're dealt.

However I do have to say that the most important games often get rated well. Baldur's Gate 3 has become a critical darling that has 'freaked out' the AAA gaming space that knows they can't duplicate such a well built project. Even for double the amount of money. There will of course always be people that say it's "over rated" because it's such a big title, but the truth is there is nothing else like it.

You may not care or be interested, but the point I'm making is that a very unpopular sub-genre got rated well and sold a ton of copies. And FWIW I think if you're looking at least games media in general and can get around the shills, most independent writers do a fairly honest opinoin/review. Which may not reflect your views, but no review can.
Nytegard said:
That's part of it, but he could also just be aged out of the modern gaming audience.
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I don't really think that's a distinction with meaning. Though I get that there will be tastes and preferences that majority may have that a minority may not, again, that's common in every art form.
If you get into painting as an example, then artists have always known there is a difference between paitning what is popular (that is what sells) and what the artist wants or wanted to paint.

We got a ton of paintings in the Dutch Golden age of random nobles and people of the cloth, because that is what paid the bills. That's also how the film industry works.

If an auterur gets enough rep then they can film a wider range of topics, but at the end of the day, their benefactor still has to make their money back or they loose the ability to "go their own way".

And if anything, I aged out of the modern gaming audience during what some people would call the goldrush of death match (UT2k4 and stuff post Q3a), the height of the XBOX/360 etc in my early 20s. Because I just didn't care for what the mainstream was doing. Really it was before that, but that seems a more obvious clear line in the sand. What's popular in any art form is rarely what I would call "good", regardless of if you're the age for it or not. I don't hate you if you're a Swifter, if anything, I get it. But she's not doing anything I'm interested in in the music scene. And I would say that Modonna in the 80s didn't either.
Nytegard said:
I.e. Things that I enjoy most about games are now considered bad gameplay design, thus even indie games won't add that. So, it's about finding that ultra niche diamond in a rough on stores with thousands of trash games. And it's going to be hard, because I can't necessarily trust reviews.
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I can't say I know exactly what you're talking about; mostly because you're being incredibly general. But I can say that what I'm interested in I also consider to be a niche and I thought I would never see again.

Fallout 1/2 were a revelation. And we basically didn't get another tactical RPG worth playing for nearly 20 years. Bethesda's buying of the Fallout IP guaranteed that we would only get trash games. It took Larian with DoS and DoS2 as well as Baldur's Gate 3 as the only ones really making that type of game today. And even still I would've preferred a "non-mythical" setting. Nitpicks aside, I can only play there what I want. Brian Fargo tried to resurect Wasteland because he couldn't get access to the Fallout IP, but to be frank it's just not as quality of a game. And Outer Worlds though better than Fallout under Bethesda felt more like a studio finding its footing than a fully successful title (it also was first person which wasn't desirable). I haven't gotten into PoE, but I expect it won't have the polish of Larian's titles.

The point there being genre and type of certain stuff has always been rare. And games that are even good of that genre also being even more rare. So, it is what it is. I play other types of games too, and there are genre's I play that are much more common, but considering that I only want to play the best stuff; it's rare to want to pickup a game and really obsess over it.
 
ZodaEX said:
No to what? I never disagreed with anything you said.....
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No it hasn't been this way for decades, no I had two Ataris and I still have my NES, and no, I have not aged out of gaming. I still regularly play old games since they are, at this point, objectively better.

Part of this is that games *have* to make money and their budgets are too large, and as a result, they're "safe." Which is to say, just an old game that was successful, cloned. So no innovation, new stories, or new game mechanics. The only new stuff allowed on any budget must be packaged with "tHe MeSsAgE!" which doesn't target gamers, we hate that shit.

But that is a guaranteed way to lose money, and that's by design.

It's like there are too many games and no games, simultaneously. Yeah, a bunch of stuff comes out all the time but it's not actually new. Modern Warfare III is a remake. Baldur's Gate III is just Divinity OS II-2.0. Also it's woke and literally gay. Most of the stuff I'm actually looking forward are projects like Skyblivion which would let me experience older games in new ways, because they're still better, up to a point.

Prior to the 90s, largely the late 90s, there wasn't enough oomph in computing to accomplish much, gaming-wise. I'm nostalgic as the next guy, but I don't want to keep playing the original Final Fantasy games or Metal Gear, either; gaming largely peaked from about 1990 through 2012. Its decline can be attributed directly to the predatory incentives of Blackrock and Gamergate, and a lack of organized response to those forces, leaving the talent pool weak and spread thin doing small time crap on the indie market.

So apart from my first paragraph, if we're on the same page, cool.

UnknownSouljer said:
However the motivation for publishers to make games is money.
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It literally is not.
 
Axman said:
It literally is not.
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You're right, it's for us and for benevolence. Buddy I can already see where this is going and I can just say: in before the thread lock.

You have a bigger axe to grind than the conspiracy theories you're purporting that publishers have. I suppose that is why you're the "Axman".
 
UnknownSouljer said:
Buddy I can already see where this is going and I can just say: in before the thread lock.
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I'm just stating facts and none of this is soapbox territory. Gamergate conditioned gamers to buy bad games by restructuring gaming news to be publisher-biased. This is why [H] doesn't exist as a news website any more. Gamergate was structured to eliminate independent media by calling it alt-right when it was just us being normal gamers.

Blackrock makes money by causing publicly-traded companies to lose stock value. They pay companies to make bad games while holding large shorts on their stocks.

These are predatory practices designed to hurt gamers and gaming. You only have to compare Starfield and Skyrim to see exactly what's going on.
 
UnknownSouljer said:
You're right, it's for us and for benevolence. Buddy I can already see where this is going and I can just say: in before the thread lock.

You have a bigger axe to grind than the conspiracy theories you're purporting that publishers have. I suppose that is why you're the "Axman".
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I recommend adding that user to your ignore list, lots of junk posts
 
Axman said:
I'm just stating facts and none of this is soapbox territory. Gamergate conditioned gamers to buy bad games by restructuring gaming news to be publisher-biased. This is why [H] doesn't exist as a news website any more. Gamergate was structured to eliminate independent media by calling it alt-right when it was just us being normal gamers.
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1.) FrgMstr is here, and he can respond for himself why the [H] closed. And there were numerous reasons. None of which have anything to do with GamersGate.
2.) All the former members of [H] sans Kyle, are continuing to do the exact same things that the [H] did over at thefpsreview. Feel free to talk to Brent_Justice about it.
3.) Name any mainstream product (as in, regardless of industry) in which the person who has made the investment into it doesn't push for a biased review.
4.) Your post is absolutely soap-box and politically motivated.
Axman said:
Blackrock makes money by causing publicly-traded companies to lose stock value. They pay companies to make bad games while holding large shorts on their stocks.
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Let's say for sake of argument that that holds true. That again points to what I said before:
1.) It's all profit motive.
2.) In this case it also has nothing to do with gaming
3.) They could care less about the content of gaming, just as long as what they invest in makes profit. Meaning it's not about politics, it's about money. Politics only plays a part so long as said politics bring in money, but then all of that will only be "skin deep" (virtue signaling) and not from actual belief systems.
Axman said:
These are predatory practices designed to hurt gamers and gaming. You only have to compare Starfield and Skyrim to see exactly what's going on.
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Uh, have you watched Todd Howard? Todd Howard making Todd Howard games and complaining that a Todd Howard game is like a Todd Howard game is peak gamer complaint. The guy has been using the same game engine for nearly 20 years.
You do in fact get what you pay for. Just like you do if you're buying a CoD iteration every 2 years. You absolutely cannot tell me that it's not widely known by all gamers that CoD is a rehash literally every time. Popular games journalism that you're criticizing even points this out, even IGN (and multiplayer). And it doesn't get more "mainstream" (or for you "woke", since that's clearly your trigger word) and "could possibly be controlled by a manipulating governing body" than IGN.

To talk about any other industry as an example, Mercedes-Benz cut their R&D and quality control back for around 20 years during the 90's and 00's in order to make more money. But this also obviously had the affect of "everyone knowing" that Mercedes-Benz cars were unreliable. Top Gear during that time (with Clarkson, May, Hammond), even joked during literally every Mercedes review about the lack of quality control (cars would often have electronics that wouldn't work, broken buttons, not working lights, etc). Again saying to say that in every industry there are known "bad quantities". Some of those reputations are absolutely earned. However did that stop people from buying MB? Well, yes, but that took an exceeding long time and not by as much as you'd think. The S-Class still maintained its status symbol status during the 90's and 00's. Or in other words, people bought cars that they knew would be built poorly. MB was driven by their profit motive. That is why they cut costs and made garbage cars. It wasn't some car manufacturer conspiracy.
(The end of that story is eventually MB brought their quality back by famously spending 1 million dollars a day in R&D + quality control. And more recently has increased that to 10 million a day).

Rep is there and people buy things regardless of if it's actual or not. There are similar jokes about "Chevy" or "Ford" (fix or repair daily), so again you're not saying anything remotely interesting or unique about the gaming industry other than the same moves that any group of people will do in a capitalistic society.

So to me you're seeing shadows where there are none. It's easier for you to make some conspiracy theory that there is some dark entity "making gamers buy crap games" instead of simply realizing that all that needs to be done is make adequate bait and people swallow the hook. Regardless of industry.

"A fool and his money are soon parted." 1000's of years of western society have said: caveat emptor (as noted in the Wiki article, literally from Roman Law). People not acting in their own financial interest in their purchases (making bad buys) has existed since the beginning of humanity.

"There's a sucker born every minute."
"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people."

None of these thoughts are modern. So welcome to the dawn of humanity and written history. Glad you could join us.

peppergomez said:
I recommend adding that user to your ignore list, lots of junk posts
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Good note. I have felt the same, but try to give people chances. I only have two people on ignore here on the [H]. And my goal isn't to ignore people of dissenting opinion, but people that either are trolling or have no reason (as in they lack logic, and aggressively fight for their lack of logic regardless of their opinion/positions). [and/or are just complete a-holes]
And I suppose he might possibly fit into either or both of those categories.


EDIT(s): Clarity, grammar, spelling, not content.
 
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