So why is IPS considered so much superior to TN?

NivOn said:
Does that affect only the darker tones or does the entire screen turn gray?

And, how bad is it from a distance, say, 5 ft? Do you have to sit straight and watch the monitor head-on, or can you watch from an angle? Ideally, I'd like to be able to watch movies on this from a distance with my friends. Naturally, the viewing angle will vary (vertically too) and won't likely be straight on. How bad an issue would the gamma shift be?
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I only meant black, although other tones wash out as well to some degree. But I definitely can't say the entire screen turns gray, far from it.

Also, it's less significant from a distance. When I watch movies from 1,5-2 meters (~6 ft?) away, I can change my position and move head freely without having to worry about the colors shifting, details getting lost or anything like that (which would be the case with a TN). Yes, the colors still slightly wash out when viewed at a horizontal angle (again, most noticeable with black and in a dark room), but as long as the angle isn't extreme, it shouldn't pose a big problem for movie watching.

In fact, I'd say movie watching is what this monitor is best suited for. For games, the slow response time can be a little problematic, but it's not an issue with movies. If viewed from some distance, the gamma shift is rather negligible IMO.
 
tQz1 said:
In fact, I'd say movie watching is what this monitor is best suited for. For games, the slow response time can be a little problematic, but it's not an issue with movies. If viewed from some distance, the gamma shift is rather negligible IMO.
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Many thanks for the clarification. I hardly game nowadays, so the response time isn't a problem for me. I do watch a lot of movies and the enhanced contrast (assuming less backlight bleed) would be really good.

With this model, I hope BenQ has fixed some of the QA issues with the EW2420.
 
I have read those reviews regarding EW2430, but we still don't know about inter-unit variability, as detailed in the link at the end of the PC Monitors review. They rated EW2420 equally well, but a lot of users had issues with horrible backlight bleeding and the LED ripple effect. For some reason, user reviews on EW2430 is terribly lacking.
 
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I would say IPS is better than VA for movies. From 6ft there is almost zero white glow and the backlight bleed is normally the lowest on IPS.

And the viewing angles are almost perfect on non black colors.

However if you wanna watch a movie upclose(for whatever reason?) then IPS gets REALLY bad, you will not be able to tolerate the white glow on the black bars in a 2.33:1 aspect movie.
 
@ Gambler_3

When it comes to LCD panel technology, there is no such thing as a perfect solution (as I am sure you learned by now). There's always going to be some compromises you need to make especially when coming from a CRT. It's a matter of choosing the right panel to meet most of your needs while limiting any potential shortcomings that would detract you from whatever you are using the monitor for.

Someone mentioned the A-TW filter for IPS monitors... Yes, it does help reduce the white glow, especially when viewing an IPS monitor from an angle. But not very many IPS monitors had the A-TW polarizer back when I was looking for IPS monitors in 2007 - 2009. Those that did were relatively expensive like my NEC LCD2690WUXi. Not sure what the current situation is regarding recent IPS monitors and A-TW polarizers.

I find watching a movie on an IPS panel monitor to be fine. I suppose it has to do with a combination of me being use to IPS panel monitors with and without the A-TW polarizer and calibrated monitors. My Planar PX2611w lacks the polarizer.

You mentioned something about vibrant colors in a previous post. People generally relate that to a glossy screen which over saturates the colors a bit, but it makes the colors "pop out" I suppose. The problem with a glossy screen is the high reflectiveness. It is simply terrible in my opinion. I don't want to see reflections on the screen.

At least now you have a better understanding of some of the pitfalls of the various LCD panel tech so next time you buy a LCD monitor you will hopefully be able to find something that suits your needs without having to make too many compromises.


When I trash my Asus VK246H monitor (I don't really like TN panels), I may opt for a VA panel instead of another H-IPS or P-IPS panel just to get a sense as to how much that technology has progressed since I bought my 1st VA panel monitor (Planar PX191) back in 2003.
 
Gambler_3 said:
I would say IPS is better than VA for movies. From 6ft there is almost zero white glow and the backlight bleed is normally the lowest on IPS.
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I don't see how backlight bleed has anything to do with the panel technology - more to do with QA.

Gambler_3 said:
And the viewing angles are almost perfect on non black colors.
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I'm not buying that, especially given the QA issues with the current range of eIPS/H-IPS panels from LG.

JaguarSKX said:
@ Gambler_3
..., I may opt for a VA panel instead of another H-IPS or P-IPS panel just to get a sense as to how much that technology has progressed since ...
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I'm going with similar arguments for getting myself a BenQ EW2430. Owning a S-IPS panel based Dell 2007WFP, the current crop of IPS panels just seem like a downgrade. EW2430 at least promises to offer much better contrast.
 
I have a Dell 2209WA and think its one of the best LCD's ever made. But if you compare the black level against a CRT, yah, it falls short. But color, uniformity and viewing angle are sooo much better than a TN panel.

Compare your IPS or CRT against a TN here:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/viewing_angle.php
 
NivOn said:
I'm not buying that, especially given the QA issues with the current range of eIPS/H-IPS panels from LG.
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My monitor is a lower end IPS and it has nearly perfect viewing angles on anything that is not dark. The backlight bleed is less than that of any sub $300 monitor I have seen. The newer LED TN's have horrible backlight bleed atleast the ASUS one I saw had it. Atleast with white glow you can eliminate it by changing viewing angle, not so much with bleed.

And even on black the viewing angles improve if you are sitting 6 feet away.

Honestly I think my monitor is the best LCD for movies but for games it's another story.

And to the guy above I actually find my monitor to be quite vibrant, for games like crysis and dirt 2 you can afford to pump up the brightness and it really "pops".

I always knew TN had series compromises compared to CRT but I had never used an IPS or VA panel so this has been a pretty harsh lesson but you are right one only truly learns after owning something.

VA seems to have ghosting especially the cheaper ones and the closer you sit the more annoying ghosting gets. So both IPS and VA seem to not be very suitable for upclose gaming but atleast with IPS the issue only comes with dark games and not every other action game.

I dont think I'll be spending my money on the current crop of LCD monitors again. I'll keep my current one and get a LED TV once I have the money or better yet if OLED gets mainstream till then. I'll seriously sell my arm and be one of the early adopters of OLED whenever the prices get sub $1000 for a 23-25".
 
If you watch a lot of movies and your budget allows it, you should consider adding a 32" tv to your desktop monitor array - either a panny viera (ips) line or some pva, just for video playback. You can get refurbs or open box for around $300 sometimes. The only way you are going to get the better of the many tradeoffs vs different tasks is to use multiple monitors... otherwise you just pick your tradeoffs and are stuck without the +'s on the panel type(s) you are lacking. I stuck with crt as part of my array for years but I think that chapter has finally closed.
Ultimately in the next year I'm shooting for a triple 27" 1080p 120hz array, with my 27" ACD below it, or just adding two more 27" ACDs instead (would cost around the same either way).. all depending on how much a single 120hz 27" impresses me during a return period whenever I buy it. I'd also like a 32" tv in the mix someday, perhaps input switchable to my htpc too. 120hz to avoid fov blur on fast mouselooking, etc.. very fast response time for gaming... ips for awesome color and image viewing, desktop real esate and pixel density, ips or pva tv for black levels and video enhancements, keeping other monitors 'free' during video playback, and perhaps for consoles on occasion.

that would be into 2012 and on no interest deals hopefully. The tv would be the last thing on my list if at all since I usually want to watch movies on my real tv in the living room w/ better surround, comfort, layout, etc.
 
I dont have the sort of financial muscle for multiple displays. My cheap CRT had simply spoiled me that screen uniformity and black levels is actually a big issue with a low budget.
 
Gambler_3 said:
The newer LED TN's have horrible backlight bleed atleast the ASUS one I saw had it. Atleast with white glow you can eliminate it by changing viewing angle, not so much with bleed..
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Agreed, My PX2370 is an LED TN and the backlight bleed is pretty bad, my cheap 2333T has almost zero bleed in comparison. I certainly wouldnt buy another LED LCD in the future (unless it's a local dimming model which so far is exclusive to HDTV's models).
 
mathesar said:
Agreed, My PX2370 is an LED TN and the backlight bleed is pretty bad, my cheap 2333T has almost zero bleed in comparison. I certainly wouldnt buy another LED LCD in the future (unless it's a local dimming model which so far is exclusive to HDTV's models).
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How bad is ghosting on the 2333T? And does it display a uniform picture with a full black screen when looking from an optimal angle? And how bad are the viewing angles on the blacks?
 
yeah I was an early adopter on a rear projection hdtv 720p just before hdmi... I later ended up getting a floor model 34" sony xbr 960 widescreen HD (1080i/"720p")crt with hdmi input that I used for several years. Similarly, even though I tried a 20.1" lcd and even a large 37" westinghouse tv as monitors, I eventually went with a 27" 1080p TN paired with a 24" 'graphics professional' crt for three years or so. As for TV's , I thought they had progressed significantly enough when I saw a samsung (glossy) led edgelit's black levels (though some plasmas are good too I wasn't interested in plasma). Now I think a high end ips is great for most things on a computer desktop.. but for movies I'd go back to my tv which is better geared for it..... and I may do eyefinity gaming for the 120hz even if the image quality pales compared to ips.. still not certain 120hz TN vs 3x 60hz ips though.

If I were to wait for oled or similar all-around-like-a-crt-but-thin-with-perfect-geometry-less-power-magnetism-radiation - etc etc.. I would have already been waiting for 6 years or more on my desktop, maybe a decade on my tv . I can wait a reasonable amount of time for some things but life goes by, and you could get in a car accident or get that bad news from the doctor who knows. lol.. I'm not waiting a decade for tech. They make too much money off lcd's just like oil banging cars.. vested interests. Good luck with your wait. I get a decent tax return and besides can get 12mo no interest at newegg or 18 months no interest at bestbuy on a lot of things. I'd rather have some cool gear I'm paying off monthly than a big cable tv bill , and I'd even go back to a clamshell phone to avoid data fees and cancel tv altogether if I had to.
 
Its pretty amazing monitors are still coming in at near 1000:1 contrast ratio except for va. Pretty sad. 1000:1 sucks even if everything else is perfect the black are grey.
 
Gambler_3 said:
How bad is ghosting on the 2333T? And does it display a uniform picture with a full black screen when looking from an optimal angle? And how bad are the viewing angles on the blacks?
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Ghosting isn't as bad as I thought it might be, my first LCD was a 16ms Dell 2001FP and the ghosting was way worse on that, but the 2333T definitely has more ghosting than my current TN panel, personally its not a deal breaker especially with the input lag being so low (Pic) I play a lot of games and it hasnt been a big concern, but keep in mind its worse than current TN & IPS monitors.

I was hoping the "Response Time" setting on the monitor might improve things but ghosting looks the same on the Normal vs. Fastest setting. With my Samsung PX2370 you can see a difference between Normal & Fastest (although Fastest has a side effect which causes a faint black trail behind moving objects, Faster seems to be the sweet spot)

A full black screen appears uniform except for minor backlight bleed in the corners, I cant see the bleeding during normal use even with dark scenes in a movie. There's also no glowing in the corners like you've mentioned with IPS.

Viewing angles are better than my TN although there's still a gamma shift when looking at this page, at the optimal viewing angle the word Lagom mostly blends into background in the center (but not 100%) and slowly starts becoming more visible towards the bottom corners, on my TN Lagom is easily visible across the entire screen even when moving my head around.
 
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100inch said:
Its pretty amazing monitors are still coming in at near 1000:1 contrast ratio except for va. Pretty sad. 1000:1 sucks even if everything else is perfect the black are grey.
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Thats one other bonus with PVA, a typical model measures 3000:1 with excellent black level measurements, For example check out this Samsung F2380M Review. If only they could achieve this kind of contrast and fast response times together in an LCD (Plasma has been there for awhile now).
 
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