Should Online Jokes Be Criminal?

jpm100 said:
What's more to this is that at that time frame, people were scapegoating video games for Sandy Hook. Especially as a retort against blaming guns. So this kid was treated like proof positive that's true and they were going to make an example of him.
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Or, and this is just a guess, people were freaked out about an 18 year old talking about killing kindergarteners a couple of months after 20 children of similar age were just mowed down like dogs and few gave a flip about him being a gamer.
 
jpm100 said:
What's more to this is that at that time frame, people were scapegoating video games for Sandy Hook. Especially as a retort against blaming guns. So this kid was treated like proof positive that's true and they were going to make an example of him.
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Call me naive but I would think that for a DA and 12 grand jurors to decide a trial was warranted that there is more than one Facebook post ... maybe they had a psychologist talk to him or maybe there were some other red flags ... lets see what comes out in his trial next week ;)
 
I really don't know how to respond to this. There are crazy people out there and there are people who have "dark" humor. I feel if there is clear and present danger people should be punished for it. But how can you tell from a "joke" to a real threat from text?
 
kbrickley said:
Call me naive but I would think that for a DA and 12 grand jurors to decide a trial was warranted that there is more than one Facebook post ... maybe they had a psychologist talk to him or maybe there were some other red flags ... lets see what comes out in his trial next week ;)
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Once you mentioned a that there was a grand jury behind its certain that there's more to this than one FB comment.
 
I wonder when rape jokes are going to get you thrown in the slammer.

Countless comedians make them all the time.
 
Yeah... The cops, the follow up detective, the judge, the jury, the DA and the person/people that reported him are all fucked up based upon some shit you guys read on the internet.

You guys should all be detectives.
 
Bamboo said:
Yeah... The cops, the follow up detective, the judge, the jury, the DA and the person/people that reported him are all fucked up based upon some shit you guys read on the internet.

You guys should all be detectives.
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Yeah, the more I dug into this the more that had to be there beyond this "joke". I really doubt this much legal apparatus came into play over on harmless "joke", especially in a place like Texas.
 
Not going to lie, I didn't think George Carlin was funny when he made such a joke years ago. I wouldn't stop him from making the joke, but the expectation to find it funny by so many people was odd. Just like this case, people expecting me to find it funny would be stupid, and while I don't think he deserves jail because he hasn't committed such a crime, context and mental health should be addressed. It might just be an idiot, or it could be something more sinister.
 
Quicksilver_ said:
Just like this case, people expecting me to find it funny would be stupid, and while I don't think he deserves jail because he hasn't committed such a crime, context and mental health should be addressed. It might just be an idiot, or it could be something more sinister.
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Let's be clear about this because I don't think people are getting it. This was a grand jury indictment. There is more to this than this "joke". I'm not saying that this guy is guilty of anything but this is more than about a FB post.
 
Quicksilver_ said:
Not going to lie, I didn't think George Carlin was funny when he made such a joke years ago. I wouldn't stop him from making the joke, but the expectation to find it funny by so many people was odd. Just like this case, people expecting me to find it funny would be stupid, and while I don't think he deserves jail because he hasn't committed such a crime, context and mental health should be addressed. It might just be an idiot, or it could be something more sinister.
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He is currently in jail because his family couldn't make his bail ... he was arrested in February and arraigned in April (the police and DA had 2 months to make a case against him which the arraignment jury obviously agreed with since they did in fact hold him over for trial) ... he is not charged with a shooting he didn't commit, he is charged with making a threat to commit a terrorist act (which is a low level crime in Texas apparently ... 3rd degree felony) ... they confiscated his computer when he was arrested so it is possible they may have found many instances of his threats or other incriminating evidence ... he is scheduled to begin trial next week so I am sure we will find out more details as the defense can make motions at that time and the prosecution presents its case first ... Texas DAs love convictions and not acquittals so I am sure they had enough evidence to justify making a case out of this ... hopefully they will give this young man some mental treatment rather than jail time but let's not judge this case by blurbs from the internet, let's see the evidence presented next week ... also, even if he did put lol and jk, how do we know he was joking or disturbed ... do we have to wait for him to kill someone ;)
 
dr.kevin said:
I wonder when rape jokes are going to get you thrown in the slammer.

Countless comedians make them all the time.
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In a room, where they are expected to make jokes? As opposed to just a normal setting?
 
dr.kevin said:
I wonder when rape jokes are going to get you thrown in the slammer.

Countless comedians make them all the time.
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Justin Carter isn't a comedian. Nor is he a singer. Comedians and singers tell stories. Justin Carter made an actual threat but shrugged it off as a joke. This country may have thin skin now, but who can blame us after all we've been through? Who makes jokes about shooting up a kindergarten class anyways? This warrants an investigation, and the penalty should be harsh for wasting valuable police time and resources.
 
Serpent said:
In a room, where they are expected to make jokes? As opposed to just a normal setting?
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Any one want to hazard what the two most famous rape jokes were of 2012? They cost Republicans two US Senate seats. This is getting weird. Why does this crowd when almost no women are want to talk about rape jokes in the context of a Texas grand jury sending a guy to trial that posted publicly on FB about killing kindergarteners just two months after Sandy Hook?

Seriously. Do please tell me you have been married to a woman for more than three days that can count to two that wouldn't be lived over this insane comparison.
 
Azhar said:
This country may have thin skin now, but who can blame us after all we've been through? Who makes jokes about shooting up a kindergarten class anyways?
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IDK, I would if I thought it would get a laugh. Context is everything. Speaking of that, what's a lonely junkie want to do? Shoot up a bunch of kids!

Har Har! Get it, a junkie...shooting up.


Azhar said:
This warrants an investigation, and the penalty should be harsh for wasting valuable police time and resources.
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I'd agree it warrants an investigation and a monetary fine, but that's about it. Tossing the kid in jail for months with a half million in bail is way over the top, like not even on the same planet over the top. Out on Pluto over the top. For those comparing this to Columbine, it's not even in the same league. This kid wasn't mutilating animals or anything like those Columbine kids were. This was just a joke in really poor taste.
 
It's in the same context as someone saying "I'm gonna kill you!" in between games of counterstrike, call of duty or battlefield. How many people here has done that?
 
canna said:
I'd agree it warrants an investigation and a monetary fine, but that's about it. Tossing the kid in jail for months with a half million in bail is way over the top, like not even on the same planet over the top. Out on Pluto over the top. For those comparing this to Columbine, it's not even in the same league. This kid wasn't mutilating animals or anything like those Columbine kids were. This was just a joke in really poor taste.
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And you know this how? All we have are claims from his father that this is a solo incident (and the father isn't an unbiased witness). The defendent was held for 2 months after his initial arrest. His case was then brought to a jury who chose to indict him. A judge reviewed his case and assigned bail (which his parents have been unable to pay). The bail was high but he is also in reasonably close proximity to the Mexico border which probably adds to flight risks. He has been held 3 months since the Indictment and his trial is scheduled for next week. Although it is possible that all they have is one solitary FB post, I would think that even in rural Texas they need more than a couple of lines of text to build a case against him. The defense has the ability to talk about the case in advance so we are only hearing their side (and if their case is truly weak then all they have is internet rage to help them). The prosecution can't talk about pending cases. We may not know all there is to know about this case just yet ;)

There are a number of lessons here though:

  • Most states have very strong laws about threatening schools because of Columbine. DON'T threaten schools even in jest.
  • Never assume that anything you put in writing is totally private, especially on social media or game sites.
  • Ignorance of the laws or stupidity are not valid defenses. Don't do stupid things and then expect to get off.
  • Don't trash talk in writing. "Heat of the moment" works very nicely when you are engaged in verbal banter, but writing something down takes more thought and effort. You also do not know when written comments will come back to haunt you.
  • Society is very skittish about attacks right now because of so many high profile incidents. Don't threaten to plant bombs, go on shooting sprees, or poison people.
  • Sarcasm and hyperbole are sometimes subtle and highly contextual. There are a lot of Shelden's in the world who do not recognize sarcasm. Unless you have a sarcasm sign be cautious what you say even in jest.
  • If you want to ignore the rules above make sure that you or your parents have sufficient funds for bail money.

:cool:
 
It become obvious to me people are trying to rationalize an obvious joke in bad taste into a meaningful threat. Not because it was a threat (and at absolute possible worst interpretation was a hoax) but because they don't want to admit to being thought police. So they need a leg to stand on.
 
jpm100 said:
It become obvious to me people are trying to rationalize an obvious joke in bad taste into a meaningful threat. Not because it was a threat (and at absolute possible worst interpretation was a hoax) but because they don't want to admit to being thought police. So they need a leg to stand on.
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Can't a similar proposition be made for the other side as well ... there are lots of folks trying dismiss his ill adviced attempt at trash talking because they see their own behaviors reflected there ... it is certainly possible that this is some gross miscarriage of justice (or it could be a potential incident was averted) ... let's see what the trial reveals when we are able to see ALL of the facts (not just the ones the defense is showing us) ;)

As an aside, I wonder if the study that revealed that CEOs had a level of psychopathy 4 times that of the general population ( http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffbercovici/2011/06/14/why-some-psychopaths-make-great-ceos/ ) might also apply to certain types of gamers as well ... note that I am not saying this in a negative way since the psychotics tend to make excellent CEOs (those same traits that make CEOs successful might also make certain types of gamers successful as well) ... but that would skew the the reactions of juries and prosecutors, if those persons ended up in the justice system :cool:
 
Wow.....glad i'm not a kid anymore. If I was a kid in this day and age, I'd be locked up for sure. I listened to death metal, had long hair, wore shirts with satanic symbols, and people being hanged or shot on them. I drew pictures of satanic stuff like crosses and devils eating bodies. I wrote poems and stories of death, and dismemberment, and such.
I was the weird kid, who hung out with the other weird kids who listened to heavy metal and death metal.

Did I ever threaten anyone? Sure. Did I get into fights? Yes, a few. Did I ever commit anything violent towards any person, or group? No, and I never would have, and neither would any of my friends.

That was crazy talk, nobody did stuff like that. We said plety of stuff, even in football it was kill or be killed between some of us. Even the bullies made plenty of threats. but it was all kids stuff. ALL KIDS STUFF. Not one of us would ever do anything on a mass scale. That was the difference.

DSR
 
kbrickley said:
Or sarcasm signs ... I want a sarcasm sign :p
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You just used it, buddy. :)

natos said:
Wow.....glad i'm not a kid anymore. If I was a kid in this day and age, I'd be locked up for sure. I listened to death metal, had long hair, wore shirts with satanic symbols, and people being hanged or shot on them. I drew pictures of satanic stuff like crosses and devils eating bodies. I wrote poems and stories of death, and dismemberment, and such.
I was the weird kid, who hung out with the other weird kids who listened to heavy metal and death metal.

Did I ever threaten anyone? Sure. Did I get into fights? Yes, a few. Did I ever commit anything violent towards any person, or group? No, and I never would have, and neither would any of my friends.

That was crazy talk, nobody did stuff like that. We said plety of stuff, even in football it was kill or be killed between some of us. Even the bullies made plenty of threats. but it was all kids stuff. ALL KIDS STUFF. Not one of us would ever do anything on a mass scale. That was the difference.

DSR
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Yea, I see high therapist bills in your future. I don't know if you know it yet, but even kids are committing mass murders.
 
Bottom line: I don't want to waste $25,000 taxpayer dollars a year locking up someone that made a joke in poor taste on the internet. I don't care how bad the joke was, it's too expensive.

Until we convert prison system from a net drain to a net gain anyways. Hard labor camps ftw!
 
Kueller said:
Bottom line: I don't want to waste $25,000 taxpayer dollars a year locking up someone that made a joke in poor taste on the internet. I don't care how bad the joke was, it's too expensive.

Until we convert prison system from a net drain to a net gain anyways. Hard labor camps ftw!
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Where have you been? Bush Jr. privatized a of our prisons. They're run by corporations and make a shit ton of money incarcerating people.
 
a lot of our prisons**

Not sure why I left that word out.
 
Azhar said:
Where have you been? Bush Jr. privatized a of our prisons. They're run by corporations and make a shit ton of money incarcerating people.
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What??
How does the prison being private or not affect whether it costs me money as a taxpayer to have someone locked up in it?
Are these companies paying the state or federal gov'ts that send them prisoners (free labor) and I'm just not aware of it? As far as I am aware, private or state-run, it still costs me as a taxpayer ~$25k/yr to lock someone up.
 
jpm100 said:
Do I?

So basically you had to go to the otherside of the planet where people are steeped in actual violence for continuously for years or decades to find an example?

Is there anything in this kid's life in terms of actual acts of violence or acts committed around him that are remotely in common with the life of the person who did that?
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Seeing that I don't know what side of the planet you live on - this forum is available outside the continental US you know - how would I know that? Here, maybe this is a bit closer to home:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_cannibal_attack

My point is that humans are humans no matter where they are, and every human is capable of acts of horrific violence. If you think this is not true you're either surrounded by some very nice people and haven't seen this sort of thing, or you're wearing very rose-colored glasses. I'm hoping it's the former. As for me, well, I've seen enough of the darker side of human nature to not hold to any illusions. The human race as a whole is barbaric, and even worse so - it wraps its barbarism in a cloak of outward civility. Remove the controls placed on society and just watch how blood thirsty people become. Oh sure, you do have your good people, but history has shown the strong prey upon the weak, and the "good guys", more often than not, end up as dead heroes or unsung martyrs.

And no, this has nothing to do with this kid's behavior. I was just pointing out that there are sick people in the world that actually do this stuff, which is why, sadly, the authorities tend to take things a bit too seriously in certain cases. I consider it to be overreacting by the police state mentality - which is, to me, just another form of barbaric control... one group dominating another by force, and looking for any excuse it can to exercise that power, making certain people into the occasional example in order to remind people just where their place is and why they should not stray from it.
 
XamediX said:
You just used it, buddy. :)


Yea, I see high therapist bills in your future. I don't know if you know it yet, but even kids are committing mass murders.
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That's funny. I'm actually doing quite well. Besides my blackouts, I'm a pretty productive member of society. lol

And to be honest. Kids were killing and doing violent things at a much higher rate in a timeframe not too long ago called the 80's. Violent crime, and drug crime was much worse then, and it was the norm. Alot of kids carried weapons, and did drugs back then. Not me, and none of my friends.

Hell, the movies from back then were very gory, and violent too, and a perfect mirror of society. Today, I rarely see a violent movie that I could compare to an 80's movie.
So if you want to say that kids are worse these days, I'd easily laugh in your face, simply because we are more worried about what some smartass kid says on facebook, and get him suspended, and worry about a real issue.
I don't believe any kid that actually would plan a mass murder of any kind would post it in a social forum. No because they aren't stupid enough to do so, but because they aren't smart enough socially either to not do it.
 
Sly said:
It's in the same context as someone saying "I'm gonna kill you!" in between games of counterstrike, call of duty or battlefield. How many people here has done that?
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There is a difference between

"I'm going to kill you!"

and

"I'm going to sneak into your house tonight and slit your throat and rape your dog"

One gets a HAHA, the other gets a "Dude, that's fucked up".

A single joke wouldn't warrant this response, and if it was, I'd say that the police and courts wasted resources on such a petty offense (which would still need some investigation to begin with). But, there has to be more. You don't drop a bomb to kill a fly.
 
natos said:
That's funny. I'm actually doing quite well. Besides my blackouts, I'm a pretty productive member of society. lol

And to be honest. Kids were killing and doing violent things at a much higher rate in a timeframe not too long ago called the 80's. Violent crime, and drug crime was much worse then, and it was the norm. Alot of kids carried weapons, and did drugs back then. Not me, and none of my friends.

Hell, the movies from back then were very gory, and violent too, and a perfect mirror of society. Today, I rarely see a violent movie that I could compare to an 80's movie.
So if you want to say that kids are worse these days, I'd easily laugh in your face, simply because we are more worried about what some smartass kid says on facebook, and get him suspended, and worry about a real issue.
I don't believe any kid that actually would plan a mass murder of any kind would post it in a social forum. No because they aren't stupid enough to do so, but because they aren't smart enough socially either to not do it.
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I never said that. You don't know it yet, but your wall of text just reinforced my initial point.
 
Kueller said:
What??
How does the prison being private or not affect whether it costs me money as a taxpayer to have someone locked up in it?
Are these companies paying the state or federal gov'ts that send them prisoners (free labor) and I'm just not aware of it? As far as I am aware, private or state-run, it still costs me as a taxpayer ~$25k/yr to lock someone up.
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There's incentive to keep them filled up. Including endorsement by judges and courts so minor offenses get ramped up or interpretation of the law gets broader. Google "School to Prison Pipeline"

There's also a conflict of interest, there is less incentive to actually rehabilitate prisoners. If they actually lower the crime rate, it would mean less profit producing repeat offenders.

Lastly, there are less guards, the prisons apparently make a deal with the gangs to keep the other prisoners in line. The worst I've heard is one where the female guards have already had several children by the inmates and they don't know the fathers. (Either nobody noticed the gangbangs or it's a deal with the warden to keep the gangs satiated)

It's a business, you need to keep profits up. Certain prisoners also cost more to incarcerate (isolation cells, special medications, etc.) these tend to get turned away in favor of minor prisoners that they can pack several into a single cell. They could even have had a hand in the upcoming re-write of immigration laws because it's a potential payday for private prisons.
 
stealthy123 said:
the raping my dog line was funnier
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Really? Because that wasn't a joke. Your dog is getting fucked tonight....

Ok, yea. It was a joke. Please don't call the police and tell them that I'm going to rape a dog.... :D

I am sure you could get away with it with friends, but you have to think who else is listening. Say that you're going to bomb the plane while playing with friends on a game is nothing. Saying that at an airport and you're fucked.
 
Ur_Mom said:
There is a difference between

"I'm going to kill you!"

and

"I'm going to sneak into your house tonight and slit your throat and rape your dog"

One gets a HAHA, the other gets a "Dude, that's fucked up".

A single joke wouldn't warrant this response, and if it was, I'd say that the police and courts wasted resources on such a petty offense (which would still need some investigation to begin with). But, there has to be more. You don't drop a bomb to kill a fly.
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That's the whole issue, there isn't one. They already got a warrant and had the house searched, nothing. The whole thing is based on that one joke, made in the context of a chat between league of legends players.
 
Sly said:
That's the whole issue, there isn't one. They already got a warrant and had the house searched, nothing. The whole thing is based on that one joke, made in the context of a chat between league of legends players.
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They didn't find "guns" ... they confiscated his computer and presumably searched it also ... everyone assumes there was only the one message (which is possible) but we don't really know ... they have had him for 7 months ... they may very well have more on him ... we'll find out next week at the trial ;)
 
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