Seven Navy SEALS Reprimanded For Consulting On Videogame

[Zarathustra[H]]

I am not a American, but I think it is Universal, those who serve get payed shit.

Not sure what my statement has to do with anything in this thread, but it breaks my heart when I see the living conditions of those that make our lives possible.

Just saying

I think the concept that our lives/freedom/whatever depend on the sacrifices of the few in uniform is completely obsolete.

In my lifetime there has not been a conflict in which my freedom or life was defended by any military in the world. Looking back in time, the last time this was actually the case was probably WWII, and even then there were very limited actions against the U.S. on our own turf, directed at stopping us from interfering in the Pacific more than anything else.

Before that, you have to go all the way back to the Mexican-American war of the 1840s or the War of 1812 to come up with a single instance where U.S. soldiers were fighting to defend the freedom or lives of other Americans.

People join the army for a lot of reasons, including young kids being lured in by the benefits and a chance of rebelling and moving out of their parents house, poor people seeing no other way to secure their financial futures and have a job and immature young macho men who think they cool and get to play with guns...

If it is really done out of patriotism it is sadly misguided, and I owe them nothing.

I am NOT thankful that they have gone to war on my behalf. In fact I wish they hadn't. All they have accomplished in the last 60 years is to piss of and radicalize even more parts of the world so they now want to kill us.

We'd be better off disbanding the whole thing, and keeping a conscription-style force purely for the defense of the homeland.

Maybe then we can spend the trillions of dollars it costs to maintain a standing army so that macho dudes can pose with their guns on something that's actually important, like better education and healthcare...

 

[MavericK]

inb4 "Advanced Warfighter was a lousy game because its production was secretly a Chinese ploy to learn more about U.S. Armed Forces tactics" tinfoil-hat rants

Technically, it was Medal of Honor: Warfighter, not Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter.

 

[MavericK]

I think the concept that our lives/freedom/whatever depend on the sacrifices of the few in uniform is completely obsolete.

[etc]

I'm by no means pro-large military, but the argument could be made that simply having the military is a deterrent against such attacks that you describe.

 

[LeninGHOLA]

I think the concept that our lives/freedom/whatever depend on the sacrifices of the few in uniform is completely obsolete.

In my lifetime there has not been a conflict in which my freedom or life was defended by any military in the world. Looking back in time, the last time this was actually the case was probably WWII, and even then there were very limited actions against the U.S. on our own turf, directed at stopping us from interfering in the Pacific more than anything else.

Before that, you have to go all the way back to the Mexican-American war of the 1840s or the War of 1812 to come up with a single instance where U.S. soldiers were fighting to defend the freedom or lives of other Americans.

People join the army for a lot of reasons, including young kids being lured in by the benefits and a chance of rebelling and moving out of their parents house, poor people seeing no other way to secure their financial futures and have a job and immature young macho men who think they cool and get to play with guns...

If it is really done out of patriotism it is sadly misguided, and I owe them nothing.

I am NOT thankful that they have gone to war on my behalf. In fact I wish they hadn't. All they have accomplished in the last 60 years is to piss of and radicalize even more parts of the world so they now want to kill us.

We'd be better off disbanding the whole thing, and keeping a conscription-style force purely for the defense of the homeland.

Maybe then we can spend the trillions of dollars it costs to maintain a standing army so that macho dudes can pose with their guns on something that's actually important, like better education and healthcare...

Sheesh.

 

[Khaydarin]

I agree with you in principal about Classified Information. People who leak classified information should be prosecuted and those that release TS data should get the death sentence.

That being said, the SEALS in this case did not go to NJP for releasing classified information. The primary charge was having an outside job and the secondary was displaying some custom items. Items that you and I can purchase from the manufacturer ourselves.

If they had released classified info they would have been prosecuted in a military court, not at an NJP.

Again the primary charge was having an unauthorized job. I know many service members that have part time jobs that did not seek permission to get those jobs and the chain of command knows about it. Guys working at Home Depot on the weekends and so forth.

The point that these guys went to Captain's Mast for having an off duty job is proof enough that someone had it in for them and is making an example or whatever.

This is still a way that the Naval Special Warfare Command can send the message that they are putting a stop to SEALs advertising the nature of their work, making money by writing books (without going through the proper channels).

 

[veilv0x]

The U.S. military is nothing but an organisation for hire by the richest people in the country. (Iraq did what to us? Why are we there?) We should reduce the size of the military, bring all of our troops home, closing the bases in other countries, and redirect all that money toward research and development of new renewable energy and building a sustainable civilization. The time has come and gone for us to stop being a warlike race of people... its fucking retarded that only a small group of people can see this...

We are not in any danger, there is no threat of being attacked by anyone that we could not defend against with local/federal enforcement, and we are too poor and too stupid to be wasting time, money and energy killing people for oil when all of us know for a fact that it will not be abundant enough for us to use like we do for the next 30 years.

I wish the economy and oil industry would collapse already so that we (in our inability to really plan for the future) would learn our lesson and do what we are going to be forced to do in the next half century...

Sorry about the rant, but i'll risk looking like a troll in order to get these idea out, its worth it.

 

[fdiaz78]

The U.S. military is nothing but an organisation for hire by the richest people in the country. (Iraq did what to us? Why are we there?) We should reduce the size of the military, bring all of our troops home, closing the bases in other countries, and redirect all that money toward research and development of new renewable energy and building a sustainable civilization. The time has come and gone for us to stop being a warlike race of people... its fucking retarded that only a small group of people can see this...

We are not in any danger, there is no threat of being attacked by anyone that we could not defend against with local/federal enforcement, and we are too poor and too stupid to be wasting time, money and energy killing people for oil when all of us know for a fact that it will not be abundant enough for us to use like we do for the next 30 years.

I wish the economy and oil industry would collapse already so that we (in our inability to really plan for the future) would learn our lesson and do what we are going to be forced to do in the next half century...

Sorry about the rant, but i'll risk looking like a troll in order to get these idea out, its worth it.

I'm all for renewable energy but the fact is we still depend on fossil fuels due to its energy density, abundance and relative low cost to extract, refine and produce products from it. Even if we had a breakthrough tomorrow on some energy source we would still use oil since we use it for so many other applications besides fuel.

At this time renewable energy is still in its infancy and cannot compete on a practical scale with fossil fuels. We need to find a fuel that is 1. Easy to process and 2. Like a bad marriage, put more energy in that we take out.

 

[veilv0x]

Yep, imagine how far we could go if we spent the money we use on killing people on research and development... *sigh*

 

[SpeedyVV]

Once again, this was not a statement on US, but about soldiers in general.

Can I point you for example to Blue barrets that try, mostly in vain, to keep peace. they still get paid shit.

As far as US soldiers being "sold" to the highest bidder, well that is for you Americans to figure out. But I think that is rather harsh to the men and woman in US uniform. Now if you talk about polititians in general, well then they can suck donkey balls.

What I think though is that soldiers all over the world get less respect than iPhone assemblers get in Foxconn.

 

[L0s7 4 Lyf3]

AFAIK for them it's a punishment but not a huge one.

Consulting game development is not quite akin to giving opposing forces the "SEAL tactical manual" so to speak. They probably advised them on what kind of gear they would bring on, how they would approach this, and probably lingo. It would be up to opposing forces to analyze the game and weed out what might be real and what's just gameplay mechanics.

I have a feeling they weren't booted in part because of their stature as members of ST6 and because what they told some video game developers wasn't too critical.

 

[octoberasian]

AFAIK for them it's a punishment but not a huge one.

Consulting game development is not quite akin to giving opposing forces the "SEAL tactical manual" so to speak. They probably advised them on what kind of gear they would bring on, how they would approach this, and probably lingo. It would be up to opposing forces to analyze the game and weed out what might be real and what's just gameplay mechanics.

I have a feeling they weren't booted in part because of their stature as members of ST6 and because what they told some video game developers wasn't too critical.

And, if you think about it, the part of our military that isn't top secret that covers standard military equipment and gear is very much public knowledge. However, stuff like many of the gear used by Navy SEALS is not public knowledge. Exposing the gear that's most likely proprietary and still-in-field testing, or prototypes in a video game may give our enemies ways to counteract them.

There is that thin line in military themed and military simulator video games that shouldn't be crossed just for the sake of national security and the safety of our men and women in the military. If we want a realistic military themed or military simulator game, then we should not complain that the game isn't realistic at all especially in gear. It's too much of a risk exposing what we have classified to the enemy. The future weapons featured in games like ARMA II and soon ARMA III are probably fine, but other things like tactics such as those used by our Navy SEALS or their gear that's not made available to regular infantry units is much too risky to be used in a video game. As technology advances in gaming, developers have to be careful when trying to depict realistic situations, gear and tactics in their games especially in games like Battlefield or Call of Duty, or even America's Army.

 

[Dangman]

In my lifetime there has not been a conflict in which my freedom or life was defended by any military in the world.

While your life wasn't threatened, there were other Americans threatened during your lifetime that were defended by a military:
1980 Operation Eagle Claw was an attempt to rescue American hostages. A poor attempt but an attempt nonetheless.
1983 Operation Urgent Fury
1989 Operation Just Cause
1989 Operation Acid Gambit
2002 Attmpeted rescue of Gracia Burnham and her husband by the Philippine Army (you said "any military" so I'm counting this)
2005 Delta Force Rescue of Roy Hallums
2008 Operation Jaque (again, you said "any military" so I'm counting this)
2009 Navy Seals rescues the captain of the Maersk Alabama from Somalis pirates
2010 Navy Seals attempt to rescue
2012 Navy Seals rescues Jessica Buchanan and Poul Hagen Thisted from Somalis pirates

I'm tired now but I bet if you keep searching, there will be numerous instances where U.S military personnel or other non-US military personnel have defended American lives. Not sure how old you are so I began at 1980.

Before that, you have to go all the way back to the Mexican-American war of the 1840s or the War of 1812 to come up with a single instance where U.S. soldiers were fighting to defend the freedom or lives of other Americans.

1898 Boxer Rebellion: The China Relief Expedition goals was to rescure U.S citizens trapped during the Boxer Rebellion
1910 to 1918 Border War: U.S Troops defended Columbus, New Mexico and Glenn Springs, Texas against attacks by Pancho Villa's forces.

Again, tired now but pretty sure you can fine instances between the 1840s and 1941 where U.S troops were defending the lives of other Americans.

We'd be better off disbanding the whole thing, and keeping a conscription-style force purely for the defense of the homeland.

Maybe then we can spend the trillions of dollars it costs to maintain a standing army so that macho dudes can pose with their guns on something that's actually important, like better education and healthcare...

Going to conscription would have the opposite effect of you want: Conscription means compulsory military enlistment of those fit for military duty regardless of whether the nation is at war or not. Look at Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan, and Israel for examples of a modern conscript army. As such, you'd actually be looking at a significantly larger military if we had to conscript every American fit for military duty. Example: At the end of WW2, the draft enabled the U.S military to have 12.5 million personnel under uniform in 1945. Compare that to today that with reserve personnel counted, the current U.S military amounts to around 3 million personnel give or take. Considering that our population is larger than it was in the mid 1940s, we may end up surpassing that 12.5 million personnel.

In other words, our volunteer army is actually smaller than a proposed conscript army.

 

[SonDa5]

I think if these SEALS were paid what they are worth they would have been more likely to not venture into making some money on a video game. Apparently they did give out a little too much information and their behavior was un SEAL like but I think the Government shouldn't have punished these guys for just trying to make a living. It's really not like they are criminals. I'm glad they didn't get kicked out and are still allowed to kick ass in their chosen profession. I wish the best for these guys.

 

[pothb]

I think if these SEALS were paid what they are worth they would have been more likely to not venture into making some money on a video game. Apparently they did give out a little too much information and their behavior was un SEAL like but I think the Government shouldn't have punished these guys for just trying to make a living. It's really not like they are criminals. I'm glad they didn't get kicked out and are still allowed to kick ass in their chosen profession. I wish the best for these guys.

What?

I don't know about how much they get paid.... but the phrase bolded is just silly. So people should be able to sell government secrets because they need money?

There are plenty of ways to make money if you were trained as a SEAL operative, or so I would think, without resorting to selling classified info. Not to mentioned they could've cleared it first.

 

[SkribbelKat]

In other words, our volunteer army is actually smaller than a proposed conscript army.

I hafta go against my usual nature to add to Danny's comments. A conscript army would consist of a buncha people who are willing or unwilling but are there anyhow. At least with a volunteer force and the option of getting out or staying in for another contractual period of time, you're usually only keeping people that want to be in uniform, understand what it means (at least after the initial "OMG what was I thinking?" part), and know what the incentives and costs are for being there. It's actually a really pretty good system that might have flaws and occasional crazies that do really dumb things, but has been working for a long time. Nothing that involves people is perfect, but yeah, there's really not much of a better way AND I'd be kinda concerned if we didn't have those volunteers out there doing stuff like helping recover from storm damage like they're doing right now. It's expensive, but super important.

 

[SonDa5]

What?

I don't know about how much they get paid.... but the phrase bolded is just silly. So people should be able to sell government secrets because they need money?

There are plenty of ways to make money if you were trained as a SEAL operative, or so I would think, without resorting to selling classified info. Not to mentioned they could've cleared it first.

It's easy to find military manuals on military operations. I don't know exactly what kind of info they released but I don't think it was something that risked national security or was traitor like or they would have been fired and put in jail. Seems like their chain of command over reacted.

SEALS have been in the spot light for years compared to other special operations units.

They are awesome though.

 

[Extra-Titanian]

They got LoR's, they mean absolutely nothing. The only reason the news even said anything was because the general public has a hard-on for SEALS right now. They got paperwork, it goes into their personal information file (PIF) with all their other information, when they go up for promotion, the entire folder gets looked at. If they're going to be "ineligible" for promotion or "their career is over" or whatever dumb shit the news is claiming, it's only because they don't have anything good on file, which if that was the case, they have bigger problems than this.

 

[TheMadHatterXxX]

I think the concept that our lives/freedom/whatever depend on the sacrifices of the few in uniform is completely obsolete.

In my lifetime there has not been a conflict in which my freedom or life was defended by any military in the world. Looking back in time, the last time this was actually the case was probably WWII, and even then there were very limited actions against the U.S. on our own turf, directed at stopping us from interfering in the Pacific more than anything else.

Before that, you have to go all the way back to the Mexican-American war of the 1840s or the War of 1812 to come up with a single instance where U.S. soldiers were fighting to defend the freedom or lives of other Americans.

People join the army for a lot of reasons, including young kids being lured in by the benefits and a chance of rebelling and moving out of their parents house, poor people seeing no other way to secure their financial futures and have a job and immature young macho men who think they cool and get to play with guns...

If it is really done out of patriotism it is sadly misguided, and I owe them nothing.

I am NOT thankful that they have gone to war on my behalf. In fact I wish they hadn't. All they have accomplished in the last 60 years is to piss of and radicalize even more parts of the world so they now want to kill us.

We'd be better off disbanding the whole thing, and keeping a conscription-style force purely for the defense of the homeland.

Maybe then we can spend the trillions of dollars it costs to maintain a standing army so that macho dudes can pose with their guns on something that's actually important, like better education and healthcare...

Ungrateful idiot please leave the country

 

[captainfish]

this is stupid and interesting. One wonders why these guys are punished while there were current Seals who helped in and starred in the film that came out last year. And, there were Seals that helped with various other games and movies of recent.

 

[MrGuvernment]

If they didn release this that they punished people for this... no one would of known that they had released this information in the first place..... , so lets make it public information that information was released that should not have been... genius!

 

[Mr. K6]

If they didn release this that they punished people for this... no one would of known that they had released this information in the first place..... , so lets make it public information that information was released that should not have been... genius!

First hint that what they released probably wasn't that big of a deal. Also why they didn't get court marshaled. Again, it's not so much content as it is disobeying protocol. There are policies like this in the civilian side of things with very strict penalties as well. Look up HIPAA.

 

[NoOther]

Maybe then we can spend the trillions of dollars it costs to maintain a standing army so that macho dudes can pose with their guns on something that's actually important, like better education and healthcare...

Reality check here. 2/3 of our budget is spent on things other than military. So your assertion of the "trillions" of dollars spent on military is actually ridiculous. Were you aware that the total cost of the war from 2003 to present is about 1.4 Trillion. That isn't even 1/4th of the money Obama spent in 3 years. Please get off your misguided soapbox.

 

[Teenk9]

Reality check here. 2/3 of our budget is spent on things other than military. So your assertion of the "trillions" of dollars spent on military is actually ridiculous. Were you aware that the total cost of the war from 2003 to present is about 1.4 Trillion. That isn't even 1/4th of the money Obama spent in 3 years. Please get off your misguided soapbox.

Obama spent that much money did he? How about you get off yours, or do you want to be the only one on a soapbox?

 

[MavericK]

Reality check here. 2/3 of our budget is spent on things other than military. So your assertion of the "trillions" of dollars spent on military is actually ridiculous. Were you aware that the total cost of the war from 2003 to present is about 1.4 Trillion. That isn't even 1/4th of the money Obama spent in 3 years. Please get off your misguided soapbox.

Few things:

1) By implying that "only" 1/3 of the total budget is spent on military, you think you are helping your argument? Ooooookay...

2) If it's 1.4 trillion (as you said) then technically it is "trillions" (as in, more than one). You are arguing semantics against yourself.

3) Lol Obama comment

 

[david_]

Ungrateful idiot please leave the country

+1. Unbelievable ignorance. See first sentence in constitution. Don't like it, leave.

 

[NoOther]

Few things:

1) By implying that "only" 1/3 of the total budget is spent on military, you think you are helping your argument? Ooooookay...

2) If it's 1.4 trillion (as you said) then technically it is "trillions" (as in, more than one). You are arguing semantics against yourself.

3) Lol Obama comment

1) Considering that 75% of the Federal Governments job is to protect the country, then yes, saying 1/3 of the budget is going to the military does help the argument.

2) Tehnically it is not "trillions" it is more than 1 trillion, but not yet 2. Plus trillions was in relation to how much was being spent on the war now, and yet the total over the last 9 years does not even come close to the 3-4 that was mentioned.

3) The Obama comment is in reference to who is currently President, and it was to show exactly the disparity going on in people's perception and reality. The budget has only 27 cents on the dollar going to military. The total bill for the wars is 1.4 trillion borrowed. The total borrowed by Obama over the budget shows the enormous amount of money spent on things 'other' than war.

So no, there is no soapbox on my part, just a stating of actuality verse perception. But thank you for trying to continue to skew facts with your own flawed perception.