Samsung Exec Bashes Windows 8

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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Jun Dong-soo doesn’t mince his words when it comes to his feelings about Windows 8. Jun is the President of Samsung’s Memory Business and equates the new operating system to the much maligned Microsoft Vista, going as far as to blame Windows 8 for the failure to re-energize the sagging PC industry with its latest OS offering.

"The global PC industry is steadily shrinking despite the launch of Windows 8. I think the Windows 8 system is no better than the previous Windows Vista platform," Jun reportedly told South Korean media”
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Microsoft doesn't want to boost pc gaming, they want the xbox720 to boost pc gaming... and they want their dirty hands in this gross mobile bubble that needs to BURST...
 
The only mistake Microsoft really made was not to offer the option to turn Metro UI on/off. Speaking as someone who deals with operating systems all day every day Windows 8 has all the appropriate updates in all the right places. It just lacked choice. Steven Sinofsky paid for this mistake appropriately. Forcing one vision on a platform where the ideas of so many are realized on a daily basis was pure hubris.

Samsung however makes all the same mistakes Microsoft does and more regularly so this is truly the pot calling the kettle black. I like Samsung too. I own many of their products but this recent comment is ridiculous as Samsung is in a perfect position to add value here and only hurts themselves by sniping from the cheap seats.
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Axiomatic said:
The only mistake Microsoft really made was not to offer the option to turn Metro UI on/off. Speaking as someone who deals with operating systems all day every day Windows 8 has all the appropriate updates in all the right places. It just lacked choice. Steven Sinofsky paid for this mistake appropriately. Forcing one vision on a platform where the ideas of so many are realized on a daily basis was pure hubris.

Samsung however makes all the same mistakes Microsoft does and more regularly so this is truly the pot calling the kettle black. I like Samsung too. I own many of their products but this recent comment is ridiculous as Samsung is in a perfect position to add value here and only hurts themselves by sniping from the cheap seats.
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They replaced the dude with the woman who was from the same camp of forced new interfaces. That wasn't the reason he was let go.
 
Rattle said:
Microsoft doesn't want to boost pc gaming, they want the xbox720 to boost pc gaming... and they want their dirty hands in this gross mobile bubble that needs to BURST...
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This, Microsoft threw PC gaming under the bus years ago.

That said, there are problems other than Windows 8. One is that people are holding off on upgrading PCs longer than ever because performance became "good enough" years ago. It is totally common to see PCs that are three to five years old playing the most popular games. Longevity is even longer outside of the relatively niche gamer segment.

Another problem is tablets and smartphones. They do most of what people use their computers for anyway (web, email, light gaming), plus they are much easier to use and maintain than a desktop OS, so people are fine using those in many situations where before they only had desktops as an option.
 
Samsung can still push Win7, they didn't need to take the Win8 offer from MS and just continue to push the older OS if they really thought it was better.
 
Just curious but how does Windows 8 affect Samsung's business? Other than HDD what other computer related products do they have? Off the top of my head can't think of any Are they in the chip business?
 
spamhunter said:
Just curious but how does Windows 8 affect Samsung's business? Other than HDD what other computer related products do they have? Off the top of my head can't think of any Are they in the chip business?
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They're only the largest chip-maker, by volume, in the world. Everything from RAM to flash memory to all sorts of processors.
 
Sagging? There is no sagging, everyone just needs to realize that the market was not saturated, now it is, so no more exponential growth, just maintenance.
 
Gaming is not a focus on Windows 8. It hasn't been a focus for a long time. Windows 8 is a bridge that brings people away from PC, and towards tablets. Actually, it's more towards a closed ecosystem, which is what tablets are essentially.

The whole UEFI issue is a real problem. With the introduction of Windows 8 comes this new UEFI which replaces the BIOS. Microsoft's goal is to make it an issue to switch away from Windows. Even if you hate Linux, you have to admit this can't be a good thing for consumers.

Though you can switch away from the Metro UI, and even disable it with a 3rd party app, this isn't what Microsoft was going for. They want you to forget about the old desktop environment so that you can get busy with buying apps in Metro.

Rather then evolving Windows and taking some of the elements of tablets and smart phones to incorporate into Windows. They instead when like, HOLY SHIT GUYS THERE'S SOME SERIES MONEY TO BE MADE HERE WITH APP STORES. WE GOTTA PUSH PEOPLE TO BUY APPS BY FORCING METRO DOWN THEIR THROATS UNTIL THEY SHIT MONEY STRAIGHT INTO OUR POCKETS. Instead of just putting an app store in Windows and giving it a touchscreen mode that YOU can decide to use or not. Cause that would have been the sensible thing to do.
 
Ashbringer said:
Gaming is not a focus on Windows 8. It hasn't been a focus for a long time. Windows 8 is a bridge that brings people away from PC, and towards tablets. Actually, it's more towards a closed ecosystem, which is what tablets are essentially.

The whole UEFI issue is a real problem. With the introduction of Windows 8 comes this new UEFI which replaces the BIOS. Microsoft's goal is to make it an issue to switch away from Windows. Even if you hate Linux, you have to admit this can't be a good thing for consumers.

Though you can switch away from the Metro UI, and even disable it with a 3rd party app, this isn't what Microsoft was going for. They want you to forget about the old desktop environment so that you can get busy with buying apps in Metro.

Rather then evolving Windows and taking some of the elements of tablets and smart phones to incorporate into Windows. They instead when like, HOLY SHIT GUYS THERE'S SOME SERIES MONEY TO BE MADE HERE WITH APP STORES. WE GOTTA PUSH PEOPLE TO BUY APPS BY FORCING METRO DOWN THEIR THROATS UNTIL THEY SHIT MONEY STRAIGHT INTO OUR POCKETS. Instead of just putting an app store in Windows and giving it a touchscreen mode that YOU can decide to use or not. Cause that would have been the sensible thing to do.
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By getting you familiar with the Metro UI, they also think it will give them a leg up in mobile devices.
 
SmokinJoe said:
Many users complain too much has changed from Windows 7... This new OS takes some getting used to, this should help those using Windows 8 to navigate and access the menu's

Windows 8 shortcuts

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/windows-8-keyboard-shortcuts/
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Shortcuts should be for daily power users. I do things sometimes once or twice a year. Sometimes I'm not even sure what I want. But I go through the menus which are somewhat logically setup enough, it helps me find what I need.
 
SmokinJoe said:
Many users complain too much has changed from Windows 7... This new OS takes some getting used to, this should help those using Windows 8 to navigate and access the menu's

Windows 8 shortcuts

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/windows-8-keyboard-shortcuts/
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LOL its like people really dont know how silly it sounds to bring up a cheat sheet for a "revolutionary, next generation UI".

I left my word perfect for dos cheat sheet taped to the side of the monitor in the 90's back where it belongs, thanks.
 
I have a Windows Phone and I like it.. but I think I'm going back to Android.. actually I've had two Windows Phones in the last couple years, and meh... they're nice, but the support just isn't there yet and honestly I think I should be able to get the same apps and functionality on WInPhone as I could on Android but companies just don't seem to be in much of a hurry to support it at all in terms of productivity apps and not just games..

As far as Win8, personally I don't like it for daily use, I'll stick with Win7.. I have Win8 on my HTPC and I've run into nothing but problems with it, the install was ridiculous, it took me I think 8 times to just get it installed, I never could get it to work from the DVD, I ended up using a flash drive to install it, it should have worked just fine from the DVD.. from that beginning I knew it was going to be problematic..
 
It's because it IS the previous vista/7 system, with a junky GUI on top...to fool people it's not the same... :p
 
Axiomatic said:
The only mistake Microsoft really made was not to offer the option to turn Metro UI on/off.
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Thats like saying the only thing wrong with space shuttle Challenger was those little o-ring thingies that got brittle and caused it to explode killing all aboard.
 
dracos said:
As far as Win8, personally I don't like it for daily use, I'll stick with Win7.. I have Win8 on my HTPC and I've run into nothing but problems with it, the install was ridiculous, it took me I think 8 times to just get it installed, I never could get it to work from the DVD, I ended up using a flash drive to install it, it should have worked just fine from the DVD.. from that beginning I knew it was going to be problematic..
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Installed it on 6 PC's around the house the last 2 months I loved it so much. The install was literally the fastest and easiest install of windows I've done since 95.

Metro is used on the HTPC, but that is it. No reason to ever use it unless I want to. Other than that Windows 8 is literally no different from Windows 7 for me.
 
Agree 100%! It's actually a great desktop OS, but they tried to tie two platforms together without a choice of the UI. Bad move there. Still, I'm loving it with 3rd party tools which should have been included from the start. .. (no pun intended :p)

Axiomatic said:
The only mistake Microsoft really made was not to offer the option to turn Metro UI on/off. Speaking as someone who deals with operating systems all day every day Windows 8 has all the appropriate updates in all the right places. It just lacked choice. Steven Sinofsky paid for this mistake appropriately. Forcing one vision on a platform where the ideas of so many are realized on a daily basis was pure hubris.

Samsung however makes all the same mistakes Microsoft does and more regularly so this is truly the pot calling the kettle black. I like Samsung too. I own many of their products but this recent comment is ridiculous as Samsung is in a perfect position to add value here and only hurts themselves by sniping from the cheap seats.
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dracos said:
I have a Windows Phone and I like it.. but I think I'm going back to Android.. actually I've had two Windows Phones in the last couple years, and meh... they're nice, but the support just isn't there yet and honestly I think I should be able to get the same apps and functionality on WInPhone as I could on Android but companies just don't seem to be in much of a hurry to support it at all in terms of productivity apps and not just games..

As far as Win8, personally I don't like it for daily use, I'll stick with Win7.. I have Win8 on my HTPC and I've run into nothing but problems with it, the install was ridiculous, it took me I think 8 times to just get it installed, I never could get it to work from the DVD, I ended up using a flash drive to install it, it should have worked just fine from the DVD.. from that beginning I knew it was going to be problematic..
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The reason Windows Phone has poor developer support is because too few people are on the platform. The reason too few people have moved to Windows Phone is because developers haven't backed the platform like they have Android or iOS. And, yes, that means that Windows Phone will continue to stagnate at the sub-5% level unless Microsoft invents the Blow-Phone. I'll let you figure that one out.

I had the opposite issue with Windows 8 when I tried it. It absolutely refused to install from a flash drive, tried multiple drives and multiple USB controllers as my motherboard has multiple USB controllers. I ended up wasting a good three hours trying to troubleshoot that until I gave up and used an external DVD drive. I had problems after install as well, and while I'm not sure how many were from Windows 8 or from software running on Windows 8, the fact I could run it all in Windows 7 just fine made me not care either way and just dump Windows 8.
 
"This time around, with Windows 8, there is no such bloat," Worstall wrote, referring to resource-hogging software packed in with previous rollouts of Windows platforms. "You can actually run on the same specs as Windows 7. Indeed, many say that it runs better than the earlier OS on the same specification of rig. Thus there's been no mad rush to upgrade systems and install yet more RAM. Simply because Microsoft has, this time at least, written a fast and efficient OS."
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Am I the only one that picked up on this ?
Yet MS managed to screwup the Graphical User Interface. The last line really does it for me as well. fast and efficient , prolly compared with windows 7 , dear god they improved upon windows 7.

THE CROWD GOES WILD .............
 
Pieter3dnow said:
Am I the only one that picked up on this ?
Yet MS managed to screwup the Graphical User Interface. The last line really does it for me as well. fast and efficient , prolly compared with windows 7 , dear god they improved upon windows 7.

THE CROWD GOES WILD .............
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Are the miniscule improvements over Win7 with respect to performance worth >$40? I don't think so. If you want a better thread scheduler then just use OS X or Linux.

Nearly all of the changes in Win8 revolve around mobile devices, namely x86-based Win32 capable mobile devices -- and the latter is more of a legacy rather than a "feature." The desktop still being there is only used as a positive by the fanboys while they completely ignore that Microsoft defaulted everything it possibly can to Metro and that you've got to pay an extra $5 to turn off the tablet launcher. That's just their way of saying, "Quit using the desktop! Use the Metro app store! Look at all these improvements!" while the fanboys rabble "You can still use the desktop like you did before! Just use third party programs, just like MS wanted!"

Whenever a Windows OS is released a whole slew of PCs are sold. When Win8 was released the sales of PCs actually slipped further down. I think it was clear that PC sales would dip regardless of MS's operating system, but Microsoft spent time reassuring the OEMs that things would pick up and that they should dedicate money and resources to Win8. Things still haven't exactly panned out. In fact, since Win8's release non-Windows tablet sales have picked up faster than most analysts expected them to, outselling laptops (nearly 3/4 of the PC market) in Q4 of '12.

He's right in bashing them, and it's not just regarding the RAM requirements. Win8 has done poorly in traditional desktops, tablets and WP8 hasn't yet picked up in smartphones. Despite what MS has told their OEMs, this is going to be a long drawn out affair for Microsoft. And they thought they can just walk in to the room and win everyone over.
 
Another "Windows 8: The Gnashing of Teeth & Tearing of Sackcloth Edition" thread... I think it's the strongest standard of bashing within the IT community whether you're a lowly tech or a lofty exec. :rolleyes:

Despite contsant outcry against it, it works great for gaming & desktop apps despite the complaints. I've deleted almost all of the Metro apps since I rarely ever see a need to use them & I only use the Start Screen as a launch platform no differently than I would with Steam or Origin.
 
CrimsonKnight13 said:
Despite contsant outcry against it, it works great for gaming & desktop apps despite the complaints. I've deleted almost all of the Metro apps since I rarely ever see a need to use them & I only use the Start Screen as a launch platform no differently than I would with Steam or Origin.
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I don't think it makes a lot of sense to on one hand remove most of the Windows 8 Metro apps (likely because they get in the way) and then on the other proclaim "it works great."

If Windows 8 wasn't so tablet focused you wouldn't need to do that. I don't know of anyone who removed a whole bunch of Windows 7 apps in order to make the OS bearable.
 
kac77 said:
I don't think it makes a lot of sense to on one hand remove most of the Windows 8 Metro apps (likely because they get in the way) and then on the other proclaim "it works great."

If Windows 8 wasn't so tablet focused you wouldn't need to do that. I don't know of anyone who removed a whole bunch of Windows 7 apps in order to make the OS bearable.
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I remove & install apps on any OS I utilize since I don't need or want everything that are the defaults. It makes perfect sense as far as my logic goes.
 
If MS hadn't of gone all stupid with the interface, Windows 8 would have been an instant hit.
 
MS needs to push users into a win/phone/console "closed" ecosystem.
With so many choices for the home/small business user and gamer, the foothold that MS had is slipping. Imop, if the PS3 would have come out with full keyboard/mouse gaming support, a library of PC-type games, then throw in a comparable office desktop type setup, the home desktop windows PC would have been finished or at least on life support. Between viruses, updates, drivers and hardware requirements, the windows PC experience has never really been the best solution for the casual gamer or basic home user. Sure the home PC is multi-functional workhorse, but the learning curve is too steep and with "user friendly" mobile devices cutting into the mix, people are no longer using home Desktop PC's as much if at all. I spend several hours a day on my home PC, playing games, but for messaging and such, my tablet is my right hand. MS could be in a, too little too late situation, we will see.
Mobile might be the future, but the current battleground is in the living room.
 
pelo said:
He's right in bashing them, and it's not just regarding the RAM requirements. Win8 has done poorly in traditional desktops, tablets and WP8 hasn't yet picked up in smartphones. Despite what MS has told their OEMs, this is going to be a long drawn out affair for Microsoft. And they thought they can just walk in to the room and win everyone over.
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I know we do feel the same way about this but that is not the problem. The problem is that MS feels that due to their market position (monopoly) everyone needs to jump and start cheering like good little cheerleaders.

But no one will outright tell microsoft they should stop this way of "developing" their operating system. Unless something like Samsung would push away MS for anything that would be a start but they are just shaking their head.

The most sickening thing is that MS releases press statements about it selling 60 million windows 8 licenses, which in a way says were an ostrich will stick our head in the sand ....

The industry should set goals for microsoft if not this will keep on going , I rather use Linux myself but for certain things were bound to keep using Windows.
 
Windows 8 isnt killing the PC market.

The fact is, since 2005 the need for new PCs every two to three years has gone.

Ordinary folks can make an old 2Ghz dual core with 2GB of ram go a long way.

Just no need to upgrade like at the turn of the century when every 33Mhz counted.

Folks seem to miss this fact. If a customer comes to me with a decent enough spec PC from 2006/7 I just tell them that I'll rebuild it with a fresh install. No point buying a new PC for the web and Ebay.
 
TechLarry said:
If MS hadn't of gone all stupid with the interface, Windows 8 would have been an instant hit.
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Unlikely. With people keeping desktops longer and tablets replacing PCs for a lot of folks, there's no silver bullet that would have made Windows 8 an instant hit. It's simply a much different world for computing devices than when Windows 7 came out.
 
heatlesssun said:
Unlikely. With people keeping desktops longer and tablets replacing PCs for a lot of folks, there's no silver bullet that would have made Windows 8 an instant hit. It's simply a much different world for computing devices than when Windows 7 came out.
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Exactly, a LOT of people bought new PCs to replace their old XP ones in 2009/10. They are not going to be upgrading any time soon.
 
TechLarry said:
If MS hadn't of gone all stupid with the interface, Windows 8 would have been an instant hit.
Click to expand...

heatlesssun said:
Unlikely. With people keeping desktops longer and tablets replacing PCs for a lot of folks, there's no silver bullet that would have made Windows 8 an instant hit. It's simply a much different world for computing devices than when Windows 7 came out.
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Instant hit? possibly not. However it is an undeniable fact that it would not be getting any of the negative backlash the entire tech sectors is directing at it. This forum is a great example. Sure Vista got some hate, but no where even Close to the hate that Win 8 is getting. And the only thing MS had to do to avoid this? A simple toggle that defaulted to a normal interface on non touch devices and allowed people to choose. Imagine that, the platform that has always been about choice (PC/Windows) tries to strip away part of that choice and act like Apple and everyone riots.

Performance difference between Win 7 and 8 on identical hardware isn't significant. I'm not willing to put up with an atrocious always on full screen AOL looking shit interface for that. I want to see my desktop background and that is it.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
And the only thing MS had to do to avoid this? A simple toggle that defaulted to a normal interface on non touch devices and allowed people to choose. Imagine that, the platform that has always been about choice (PC/Windows) tries to strip away part of that choice and act like Apple and everyone riots.
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I think the best way to describe Windows 8 is that it's controversial. I think how one perceives Windows 8 has a lot to do with how one perceives the state of the PC market and what the future of PCs will look. I don't oppose a UI switch but at the same time I don't see how that advances anything. People are simply not using PCs as much anymore and are using more tablets with touch. Somehow, that has to become a key part of Windows. The classic UI has served Windows well but it's20 years old now, it's difficult to see how that UI will power the future. That doesn't mean it's not still useful, but how does the UI and the classic desktop and keyboard and mouse paradigm fuel growth?

Dekoth-E- said:
Performance difference between Win 7 and 8 on identical hardware isn't significant. I'm not willing to put up with an atrocious always on full screen AOL looking shit interface for that. I want to see my desktop background and that is it.
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We're well past top line performance being much of a driver for PC sales and growth, as has been mentioned, many people have 5 year old PCs that are plenty fast for what they do.

For me it's simply I can do more with 8 than 7. No the UI isn't perfect but if were what you and others describe, I don't know how I'd be able to use it to drive the same desktop programs the same was as I always have plus a growing number of touch and tablet apps that don't exist for 7.

There's no silver bullet, a UI switch would please some people now and slow down Windows ability to work with tablets and touch for a market that is shrinking. If the PC market were still experiencing robust growth of course Windows 8 would be different. But Microsoft simply can't count on robust desktop growth anymore. Those days are gone.

Welcome to the future.
 
heatlesssun said:
Unlikely. With people keeping desktops longer and tablets replacing PCs for a lot of folks, there's no silver bullet that would have made Windows 8 an instant hit. It's simply a much different world for computing devices than when Windows 7 came out.
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I personally despies windows 8 after using it for a few weeks, i have to completely agree. People are shifting away from PC for their general computing. My employer has around 3000 PC still running XP (pentium 4s), they are replacing them with Ipads at an alarm rating...
 
Nothing wrong with W8. It just takes time to get use to.Seems that everyone is not use to doing that. I understand that 2 months is time enough.
 
Rattle said:
Microsoft doesn't want to boost pc gaming, they want the xbox720 to boost pc gaming... and they want their dirty hands in this gross mobile bubble that needs to BURST...
Click to expand...

I doubt PC gaming has anything to do with the sales related to a new OS, which Samsung is being critical of.
XP/Win7/DX9 still dominates PC gaming.
 
Strange thing is that 'back in the real world' of normal people with normal computing expectations and needs, really don't mind Windows 8 at all.

I've sold quite a few Windows 8 machines and the feedback has been great. No one has asked for their old PC or laptop back. All the demos of 8 that I have done to customers and small business groups have all been really positive. No one, not one person has pulled their bottom lip over their head and said "that is such FAIL!" They are really quite keen to try it out.

So I can only assume it's a few hardcore supposed 'advanced users' that are just making a lot of noise about it. For reasons known only to them.

The only problem Windows 8 has, is that Windows 7 came out on decent dual/quad core gear just 3 years ago. A lot of people bought Windows 7 and there s no reason for them to change for at least another 3 years.
 
heatlesssun said:
I think the best way to describe Windows 8 is that it's controversial. I think how one perceives Windows 8 has a lot to do with how one perceives the state of the PC market and what the future of PCs will look. I don't oppose a UI switch but at the same time I don't see how that advances anything. People are simply not using PCs as much anymore and are using more tablets with touch. Somehow, that has to become a key part of Windows. The classic UI has served Windows well but it's20 years old now, it's difficult to see how that UI will power the future. That doesn't mean it's not still useful, but how does the UI and the classic desktop and keyboard and mouse paradigm fuel growth?


We're well past top line performance being much of a driver for PC sales and growth, as has been mentioned, many people have 5 year old PCs that are plenty fast for what they do.

For me it's simply I can do more with 8 than 7. No the UI isn't perfect but if were what you and others describe, I don't know how I'd be able to use it to drive the same desktop programs the same was as I always have plus a growing number of touch and tablet apps that don't exist for 7.

There's no silver bullet, a UI switch would please some people now and slow down Windows ability to work with tablets and touch for a market that is shrinking. If the PC market were still experiencing robust growth of course Windows 8 would be different. But Microsoft simply can't count on robust desktop growth anymore. Those days are gone.

Welcome to the future.
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See, we have had this particular debate before. You know quite well that if we are talking a touch environment, I do not disagree with you. I am perfectly happy with Win 8 on a tablet, a Phone or even a touchscreen PC. It makes sense and works well in that environment. However it still doesn't advance anything or offer a single tangible benefit to those not using a touch screen. It never has..it never will. Which is why my argument has always been against alienating the demographic who doesn't use touch. That demographic while it may not be growing by leaps and bounds and may even be shrinking, Still far out numbers the other. Sure Tablets may be selling like crazy, but they are still a drop in the bucket compared to PC's average sales even at negative growth. Sorry but you cannot so casually dismiss the fact that not everyone has a tablet, and PC markets have reached a point of saturation. There just is no reason MS had to cram the interface down everyone's throats with no choice. That was a Poor business decision no matter you try and spin it.

daglesj said:
Strange thing is that 'back in the real world' of normal people with normal computing expectations and needs, really don't mind Windows 8 at all.

I've sold quite a few Windows 8 machines and the feedback has been great. No one has asked for their old PC or laptop back. All the demos of 8 that I have done to customers and small business groups have all been really positive. No one, not one person has pulled their bottom lip over their head and said "that is such FAIL!" They are really quite keen to try it out.

So I can only assume it's a few hardcore supposed 'advanced users' that are just making a lot of noise about it. For reasons known only to them.

The only problem Windows 8 has, is that Windows 7 came out on decent dual/quad core gear just 3 years ago. A lot of people bought Windows 7 and there s no reason for them to change for at least another 3 years.
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You know, it is funny. In my previous job I handled technology training for hundreds of employees. I left said job because I was tired of it and wanted to do something different. During my time there however, I put Win 8 while it was in beta in front of countless people. I never once tried to make their opinion for them or told them how I felt about it. I simply told them this was new direction of windows, and asked them to bang around on it and give me feedback on how it felt. Not a Single person ever said a single positive thing. These were all average users, not one of them a power user.
 
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