Question: Dominator vs Vengeance, 1.5V vs 1.65 SB-E

M

magoo

[H]F Junkie
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I can't stand it.
I'm going to upgrade.......Merry Christmas to me.....:D

So.
Rampage IV Formula( not out yet, but soon:p)
SB-E $500 dollar CPU what-ever-it's-called.

I have 8 GB of Dominator 1600 1.65V (4x2)

Is there a big difference between Vengeance and Dominator except for price?

I'm not too schooled on the 1.5V vs 1.65V........I mean my X58 board with the Ci7 930 was supposed to take a dump if I ran memory at 1.65 and I haven't had problem one since I set the board up almost 2+ years ago.

Thanks for the advice in advance.:)
 
if you're doing a new build then go with the 1.5v vengeance, I believe it matches the intel spec better.
not to mention amazon/newegg are selling the 8gb (2x4gb) kits for $35.
 
remember, the ratings are the binned maximum ratings for overclocking, not the spec.

They will all run at default jdec clocks and voltages just fine. (aka 1.5v, 1333mhz, 9-9-9-24)

1.65v, 1600mhz cas 9 specifies that the ram will run at that speed only at that voltage. 1.65v is over the jedc specification, but thats because x58 allows the ram to be overclocked as well as the voltage to be increased. You can lower the voltage you'll just have to loosen the timings and/or reduce the speed.

take notice that most 1.5v ram modules have looser timings than their 1.65v counterparts at the same frequency. Thats because they're the same chips, they've just been tested at different voltages to describe their overclockability for different platforms.

Dominator will run fine at 1.5v, just knock down the speed and timing.
 
The chipset however has nothing to do with RAM in the nahalem/sandy bridge cpus.

The cpu has the memory controller, correct?

So what you are saying is that the SB can't or won't work well with the V DIMM at 1.65?

That followed by......Vengeance WILL operate at the advertised speed, ie 1600 or 1866 at 1.5V? Whereas the Dominator needs 1.65V?
 
I think the recommended memory is 1.5v or lower as it is with SB. nahalem is the only chipset that recommends up to 1.65v, IIRC.

and yes the memory controller is on the cpu.

from Intel:

intelg.jpg
 
Thanks.
I appreciate that information......

I was hoping to use my Dominator.....but what the hell, new board = new memory too.:)
 
caniba said:
I think the recommended memory is 1.5v or lower as it is with SB. nahalem is the only chipset that recommends up to 1.65v, IIRC.

and yes the memory controller is on the cpu.

from Intel:

intelg.jpg
Click to expand...

Actually, the 32nm CPUs do not recommend the DIMM voltage above 1.575V. 1.65V should be reserved for CPUs with a 45nm or 65nm process (in other words, the older, first-gen i7 quad-cores or older).
 
E4g1e said:
Actually, the 32nm CPUs do not recommend the DIMM voltage above 1.575V. 1.65V should be reserved for CPUs with a 45nm or 65nm process (in other words, the older, first-gen i7 quad-cores or older).
Click to expand...

Recommendations are not the same as safe voltages. Many people have used 1.65V on Sandy Bridge with no ill effects. I have also consistently exceeded 'recommended' voltages on both CPU and RAM with no issues. Here is a quick link for those working with Sandy Bridge:

http://www.overclock.net/t/911402/sandybridge-take-note
and
http://www.overclock.net/t/908782/sandy-bridge-overclocking-guide-ocn-members-only
 
magoo said:
The chipset however has nothing to do with RAM in the nahalem/sandy bridge cpus.

The cpu has the memory controller, correct?

So what you are saying is that the SB can't or won't work well with the V DIMM at 1.65?

That followed by......Vengeance WILL operate at the advertised speed, ie 1600 or 1866 at 1.5V? Whereas the Dominator needs 1.65V?
Click to expand...

SB wont work with anything higher than 1.5v. Intel states that it will damage the cpu.

Vengeance will run 1.5v at advertised speed... whatever that is.

However, Dominator 1.65v 2000mhz 9-10-9-27 2t will run fine at 1.5v, 1866mhz, 9-10-9-27, or 1600mhz, 9-9-9-24. Just knock down the frequency a tier and you will be fine. A new ram set is completely unnecessary.

NoOther said:
Recommendations are not the same as safe voltages. Many people have used 1.65V on Sandy Bridge with no ill effects. I have also consistently exceeded 'recommended' voltages on both CPU and RAM with no issues. Here is a quick link for those working with Sandy Bridge:

http://www.overclock.net/t/911402/sandybridge-take-note
Click to expand...

no ill effects yet. People are just now starting to pop up with problems with their 2500k and 2600k's from running their voltages too high. This stuff wont instantly fry your cpu, but it will have long term effects. In 6 months we will see who has actually fried their SB or not.
 
thesecond said:
no ill effects yet. People are just now starting to pop up with problems with their 2500k and 2600k's from running their voltages too high. This stuff wont instantly fry your cpu, but it will have long term effects. In 6 months we will see who has actually fried their SB or not.
Click to expand...

Where? I have seen nothing about anyone having any problems yet.
 
Great post.

I have been trying to decide as well if I want to get Dominator's or Vengence Memory.

I have a Rampage Gene 3 and I am considering to get 24GIG of Vengeance memory to replace the Dominator GT's I currently have in there. I cannot get my GT's to run at 2000mhz speed at all. Right now its at a whopping 1066 and every time I try to crank it up I get BSOD's

So I wanted to switch to Vengeance to see if it will fix the problem and let me run the memory faster.

I just don't see why Dominators cost so much and Vengeance seems like its a better more compatible memory kit. I mean am I missing something?
 
As I said, I'm going to buy the Rampage IV Formula as soon as it's released.
I decided to buy 16 GB of the 1600 vengeance.
I figured I could get the whole 1600 out of them at 1.5V, if I wanted to use the Dominators to be safe I'd have to dial down the voltage to 1.5 and then only get 1333 at best.

My thought is, what the hell.....new board, new RAM......maybe if I up the VDIMM to 1.55 I might gey 1800?

Anyway, the cost was silly low at 89 dollars for 16GB :eek: I think my first triple channel kit of Dominators was $250 or something like that.....
 
thesecond said:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1038040161&postcount=11

Its just beginning though. This is the first i've seen, but I am confident in saying that i expect to see more.
Click to expand...

First off, that post is about the person overvolting their CPU to 1.45V not their RAM. Where do you get the RAM issues from?

Yeah, I can confidently say you will see more as well, just like I can confidently say anyone doing any overclocking is going to see things fail for any number of reasons. It doesn't mean that it can't handle more voltage. If the memory is rated for 1.65V, then the memory can take 1.65V. It depends on the MB how the voltage is sent out. As long as the memory is on an independent voltage, then it doesn't matter what you set the DIMM voltage too as long as the memory can handle it. I have seen memory modules fail even at their recommended voltages, heck I have had 2 sets fail at their recommended voltages.

The CPU itself is designed for an entirely different voltage. The MB usually separates voltage between the CPU and the DIMMs so that each receives its own independent voltage. So you can set your CPU to 1.35V and your memory to 1.65V and be perfectly fine.
 
noid370 said:
I just don't see why Dominators cost so much and Vengeance seems like its a better more compatible memory kit. I mean am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Heat spreaders, corsair monitoring compatibility (those little plugs), and the original market release price - dominators have always been marketed has high end, vengeance attempts to meet the middle class.


NoOther said:
First off, that post is about the person overvolting their CPU to 1.45V not their RAM. Where do you get the RAM issues from?

Yeah, I can confidently say you will see more as well, just like I can confidently say anyone doing any overclocking is going to see things fail for any number of reasons. It doesn't mean that it can't handle more voltage. If the memory is rated for 1.65V, then the memory can take 1.65V. It depends on the MB how the voltage is sent out. As long as the memory is on an independent voltage, then it doesn't matter what you set the DIMM voltage too as long as the memory can handle it. I have seen memory modules fail even at their recommended voltages, heck I have had 2 sets fail at their recommended voltages.

The CPU itself is designed for an entirely different voltage. The MB usually separates voltage between the CPU and the DIMMs so that each receives its own independent voltage. So you can set your CPU to 1.35V and your memory to 1.65V and be perfectly fine.
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter whether you're overvolting ram or CPU, intel states that overvolting either will damage the CPU. Remember, the memory controller is on the die, so overvolting the ram can damage that part of your CPU.

You cannot set your ram voltage to 1.65v and be perfectly fine. The ram will be fine, but it will cook the crap out of your memory controller, which in turn damages your CPU. This is sandy bridge, not penryn.

Plus lets not forget how sensitive the 32nm process is to small voltage differences and heat. This was realized with the 980x when it first came out, and is becoming ever more apparent with sandy bridge.
 
thesecond said:
Heat spreaders, corsair monitoring compatibility (those little plugs), and the original market release price - dominators have always been marketed has high end, vengeance attempts to meet the middle class.




Doesn't matter whether you're overvolting ram or CPU, intel states that overvolting either will damage the CPU. Remember, the memory controller is on the die, so overvolting the ram can damage that part of your CPU.

You cannot set your ram voltage to 1.65v and be perfectly fine. The ram will be fine, but it will cook the crap out of your memory controller, which in turn damages your CPU. This is sandy bridge, not penryn.

Plus lets not forget how sensitive the 32nm process is to small voltage differences and heat. This was realized with the 980x when it first came out, and is becoming ever more apparent with sandy bridge.
Click to expand...

Of course Intel is going to say that, they have said that for years. They ALWAYS say overclocking and overvolting may damage the processor. But you know what? People have been doing it for years with no ill effects. You are still bringing me nothing. That post you linked to was about overvolting the CPU itself, not the memory. You have showed me absolutely no proof whatsoever that setting your RAM to 1.65V damages the CPU in any way whatsoever. It is the same as fearmongering. Is there a risk? Yes, absolutely, there is ALWAYS a risk to overclocking and overvolting.
 
NoOther said:
Of course Intel is going to say that, they have said that for years. They ALWAYS say overclocking and overvolting may damage the processor. But you know what? People have been doing it for years with no ill effects. You are still bringing me nothing. That post you linked to was about overvolting the CPU itself, not the memory. You have showed me absolutely no proof whatsoever that setting your RAM to 1.65V damages the CPU in any way whatsoever. It is the same as fearmongering. Is there a risk? Yes, absolutely, there is ALWAYS a risk to overclocking and overvolting.
Click to expand...

You didn't read anything I just said regarding memory controllers, or 32nm process, let alone back up what you said in regards to voltage differences on chips made with this process.

Putting more than 1.5v on the memory will damage the onboard memory controller. Just like putting more than 1.9v on the pll will damage the motherboard, just like putting more than 1.35v on the cpu will damage the cpu.

And you're using hearsay to argue against me? I'm done with you.
 
thesecond said:
You didn't read anything I just said regarding memory controllers, or 32nm process, let alone back up what you said in regards to voltage differences on chips made with this process.

Putting more than 1.5v on the memory will damage the onboard memory controller. Just like putting more than 1.9v on the pll will damage the motherboard, just like putting more than 1.35v on the cpu will damage the cpu.

And you're using hearsay to argue against me? I'm done with you.
Click to expand...

FUD, plenty of people have done it with no problem. You have shown no proof whatsoever. I am done with you. You state a bunch of marketing crap and white page information from Intel which they ALWAYS release with all of their processors, yet you show me not ONE, not even ONE instance where it has been shown to be true. What you are saying is just FUD at this point. Could it be true? Maybe, but I have not seen it anywhere.

And for proof:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1055541/1-65v-memory-and-sandy-bridge
http://www.clunk.org.uk/forums/over...-overclocking-guide-beginners.html#post110907
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=686249
http://www.corsair.com/blog/sandy-bridge-e-oc-guide
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2142510

All of those show one or more ppl using Sandy Bridge with memory set to 1.65V with no problems. Show me one, just one post of someone setting memory to 1.65V with Sandy Bridge and 'that' caused the system to crash or be unstable?

And spoiler alert, Intel saying its okay themselves:

http://forums.crucial.com/t5/Ballis...8P67-rev-B3-compatible-memory/m-p/50922#M2260

Intel's specification for XMP profiles clearly states that 1.65V memory settings are okay. Now you were saying how I apparently wasn't listening to you and don't know what I am talking about and have no proof?

Now again, show me proof or I call shenanigans on you.
 
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Thanks for the links. The Corsair link was really good reading.

As for the 1.65V deal......I've run my X58 platform at 1.65V since the 930 was released over two years ago............never a problem.;)
 
magoo said:
Thanks for the links. The Corsair link was really good reading.

As for the 1.65V deal......I've run my X58 platform at 1.65V since the 930 was released over two years ago............never a problem.;)
Click to expand...

Yes, but the debate was over Sandy Bridge and 1.65V. On the newer Sandy Bridge boards, they run the RAM at 1.5V stock. Some RAM may have problems with that, so there was a lot of debate whether it was "safe" to run RAM at 1.65V. According to everything I have seen and read it is. I have also run RAM at 1.65V, but my RAM also runs just fine at 1.5V.
 
I like how people have lots of qualms about running 1.65v RAM, while at the same time they have no problems exceeding the recommended safe vcore for overclocking.
 
Tsumi said:
I like how people have lots of qualms about running 1.65v RAM, while at the same time they have no problems exceeding the recommended safe vcore for overclocking.
Click to expand...

Well..........with these cpus, you would be overvolting the VCore and also the VDimm.....since the memory controller is on the cpu, yes, I would be concerned.

I did it on my nahalem cpu, but was wondering if the sandy bridge would let me get away with the same thing?:D
 
NoOther said:
Yes, but the debate was over Sandy Bridge and 1.65V. On the newer Sandy Bridge boards, they run the RAM at 1.5V stock. Some RAM may have problems with that, so there was a lot of debate whether it was "safe" to run RAM at 1.65V. According to everything I have seen and read it is. I have also run RAM at 1.65V, but my RAM also runs just fine at 1.5V.
Click to expand...

Do you have a source for that concern that I could read?
 
magoo said:
Do you have a source for that concern that I could read?
Click to expand...

Which concern? The concern about whether RAM rated for 1.65V can run at 1.5V, or the concern of whether it is safe to run 1.65V RAM on a Sandy Bridge board. For the latter concern, you can consult the links above. For whether RAM can run at 1.5V, that is up to the manufacturer of the RAM. It may not be able to sustain its rated speeds at 1.5V.
 
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