Phase-change??

A

arisythila

Weaksauce
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Messages
105
Hey guys, I would like to build my own Entry level phasechange system(AKA the first one i've ever built). Im really looking for someone to give me a hand in designing/finding parts. I cannot seem to find any parts for anything. Any help is appreciated. Share your knowledge :)

AIM: SilviaS13Drift or PM me here.

Thanks
 
Looks like they're arn't too many people around to help you. This forum is almost dead.

A phase change system can either be a chiller or direct-die, that is, the evaporator either cools water which is pumped to the CPU/GPU, or the evaporator sits directly on the cpu/gpu. A chiller generally provides higher minimum temps (not as cold) than a direct-die system, but is more versatile. Do you know which one you want?

Next, you have to decide how cold you want to go. Do you have an idea about that?
 
Im actually running water right now, and I'd like to get alittle colder. make -10c to -20c or greater. -40c to -60c. But I'd really like to do this myself. you defently get more pride from it if you do it yourself. hehe

Thanks Jonsey

~Mike
 
-10c shouldn't be too hard. A 1/5 hp compressor, like this tecumseh, will get you there:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7539672506&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&rd=1


You'll also need another compressor to vacuum down the system, any old thing will do. Besides that, you'll need a couple of shraeder valves, some cap tube, a drier, and some brazing rod, a condensor, tubing, insulation, gauges, and a torch. You'll also need some refrigerant. It's actually the toughest thing to get... most kinds need a license. Lucky for you, R-290, or good ole' propane, will get you where you need temp wise.

The capillary tube and the condensor you can get from Chilly1 over at xtremesystems.org I would get the two pass variety that fits a 120mm fan. Use 1/4" line for the high side, and 3/8" or 5/16" for the low side. You can get the tubing at a HVAC plac or Orchard Supply Hardware.

For the torch, you need something that can put out enough heat to braze. MAPP gas is the minimum. You could get one of those torches that use oxygen and MAPP gas. Or you could use oxygen/acetylene.

The gauges you can get on ebay for $30-$50.

For most of the extras, you can PM glcg2000. He hooked me up with lots of stuff.

You can look at other threads for inspiration. Here's mine: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=942689

Of course, -40 to -60 will require a much larger compressor. But you might be surprised what 0c processor temps can get you. My old 3.4E that would only do 3.7 on air and 4.0 on water, does 4.35 with a 12v rail of 11.5v. I won't know what it can really do until I get a decent PSU.

I'm shortening the cap tube some more this weekend, I'm hoping I can get -10 - -15 C water temps. That will be enough to keep my prescott under 0c under load. 4.4 GHz on a P4 may not be as fast as an FX, but it'll last me for a while. :cool:
 
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1) You will need to educate yourself on how things work. http://www.refrigerationbasics.com/ is my source for time being. I actually already knew everything about theory and how people practice but you will need some real life like trouble shooting skill after all.
2) You will need to get EPA certification to buy gases. 608. Type 1 which can be taken on line is good enough to do most small job. It isn't overtly hard and you can take type 1 as open book test. I did mine in 3 hours or so (studying, taking test)
3) Once you took EPA test, you will find out many things. Such as you can't unleash gas... you need to recover it. Penalty for not doing is very harsh. And reward for reporting offender is very high too.
That said here is what I have in hand now and soon will have.
a) Flaring tool, Swaging tool, tube cutter, coil bender for tube, and 90 degree bender for tube (not really needed but nice to have) - this is just to make refrigeration line.
b) You need to braze it up. I have bernzo-matic mapp torch, and same companys oxy-mapp torch. I have some nickle rod for steel to copper brazing and bunch of stay silv 15 rod for copper to copper brazing.
c) You need vacuum pump. Another compressor would do fine... only thing would be nothing will be cooling this compressor so some consideration on cooling should be thought of. Deeper vacuum you can pull out of system the better.
d) You need to leak test. Deep vacuum will not be sufficient measure of leak proof. Best method is using nitrogen. So you need to get nitrogen tank and regulator for nitrogen gas that can handle at least 200 PSI.
e) Recovery machin and few recovery tank. If you want to stick to law (which I think everyone should) well there is no avoiding it.
f) Manifold gauge(s)
g) optionally vacuum gauge.

- buying most of things used, etc, tool cost should be anywhere from $700-$1200 (recovery machine and tanks will eat up about half of the cost or 1/3)

Now the parts:
a) Compressor try to get starter kit with it... much cleaner that way and don't forget to get mounting kit for it.
b) Condensor and fan(s)
c) Copper tubings (1/4", 3/8" refrigeration grade), cap tubing.
d) Schreder valve (for charging, vacuuming, diagnosing, etc)
e) Evaporator (waterblock I guess:p)
f) Filter/drier.
g) Corresponding oil for compressor vs gas.
h) Last but not least... gas. (r404a, r402a is readily available and quite decent)

There is a lot of over head invovled in making your first unit actually...
 
jinu117 said:
1) You will need to educate yourself on how things work. http://www.refrigerationbasics.com/ is my source for time being. I actually already knew everything about theory and how people practice but you will need some real life like trouble shooting skill after all.
2) You will need to get EPA certification to buy gases. 608. Type 1 which can be taken on line is good enough to do most small job. It isn't overtly hard and you can take type 1 as open book test. I did mine in 3 hours or so (studying, taking test)
3) Once you took EPA test, you will find out many things. Such as you can't unleash gas... you need to recover it. Penalty for not doing is very harsh. And reward for reporting offender is very high too.
That said here is what I have in hand now and soon will have.
a) Flaring tool, Swaging tool, tube cutter, coil bender for tube, and 90 degree bender for tube (not really needed but nice to have) - this is just to make refrigeration line.
b) You need to braze it up. I have bernzo-matic mapp torch, and same companys oxy-mapp torch. I have some nickle rod for steel to copper brazing and bunch of stay silv 15 rod for copper to copper brazing.
c) You need vacuum pump. Another compressor would do fine... only thing would be nothing will be cooling this compressor so some consideration on cooling should be thought of. Deeper vacuum you can pull out of system the better.
d) You need to leak test. Deep vacuum will not be sufficient measure of leak proof. Best method is using nitrogen. So you need to get nitrogen tank and regulator for nitrogen gas that can handle at least 200 PSI.
e) Recovery machin and few recovery tank. If you want to stick to law (which I think everyone should) well there is no avoiding it.
f) Manifold gauge(s)
g) optionally vacuum gauge.

- buying most of things used, etc, tool cost should be anywhere from $700-$1200 (recovery machine and tanks will eat up about half of the cost or 1/3)

Now the parts:
a) Compressor try to get starter kit with it... much cleaner that way and don't forget to get mounting kit for it.
b) Condensor and fan(s)
c) Copper tubings (1/4", 3/8" refrigeration grade), cap tubing.
d) Schreder valve (for charging, vacuuming, diagnosing, etc)
e) Evaporator (waterblock I guess:p)
f) Filter/drier.
g) Corresponding oil for compressor vs gas.
h) Last but not least... gas. (r404a, r402a is readily available and quite decent)

There is a lot of over head invovled in making your first unit actually...
Click to expand...

Great write up. That is one way to do it. A person certainly doesn't need to start out with a setup that expensive. Really, phase-change refrigeration is not complicated. A first project does not need some expensive gas... well designed propane systems can reach low temps, propane is cheap, and you don't need any certifications or expensive recovery equipment. Also, propane is compatible with whatever oil is already in your compressor. Also, if you braze everything together (I don't personally like flare-compression fittings) you don't need any of the flaring or bending tools. A tubing cutter is a must though.
 
Yeah, Im thinking about getting a water chiller, and trying to build it into something I can use. Im not exactly sure how cold the water will get, but its gotta be better than air temp.. Water chillers usually run about 100 dollars here.. So we shall see if i can find a good one. I'd really like to build my own tho. Just to say I did it. Im really thinking about doing a water chiller over a direct die. That way I can cool my GPU, CPU, and Chipset.

~Mike
 
arisythila said:
Yeah, Im thinking about getting a water chiller, and trying to build it into something I can use. Im not exactly sure how cold the water will get, but its gotta be better than air temp.. Water chillers usually run about 100 dollars here.. So we shall see if i can find a good one. I'd really like to build my own tho. Just to say I did it. Im really thinking about doing a water chiller over a direct die. That way I can cool my GPU, CPU, and Chipset.

~Mike
Click to expand...

Curious, but what sort of chiller can you get for $100, and where are you?
 
any old AC or dehumidifier and a copperline bender, where you reroute and remount the evaporator into a reservior. My first chipchiller was an Ingersol Rand compressed air drier

http://www.energysolutionscenter.org/Learn/Air_Compressor_Tutorial.htm#Air Dryers

Refrigerated air dryers remove moisture from the compressed air through a mechanical refrigeration system to cool the compressed air and condense water and lubricant vapor. Most refrigerated dryers cool the compressed air to a temperature of approximately 35EF, resulting in a pressure dew point range of 33EF - 39EF. Keep in mind that this range is also the lowest achievable with a refrigerated design since the condensate begins to freeze at 32EF.
Click to expand...

didnt get all that cold, but was already plumbed :p

http://www.air.irco.com/IS/product.asp/id/50,188,56,87,67
the old one I used was quite small and R12
 
the link you have above would work like crap.

The compressors in those units are tiny and if your wanting to cool not only a CPU, but NB and GPU, you will need something larger than that. I would suggest at least a GOOD 1/3hp and prob a larger 1/2hp compressor.

If you build it porperly, you could make it compact and effecient and get some target temps of around -30 C.

I would research this more and read about "water cooled condensers," you can use this part for the heat exchanging device b/t the evaporator and the chilled liquid.
 
gclg2000 said:
the link you have above would work like crap.

The compressors in those units are tiny and if your wanting to cool not only a CPU, but NB and GPU, you will need something larger than that. I would suggest at least a GOOD 1/3hp and prob a larger 1/2hp compressor.

If you build it porperly, you could make it compact and effecient and get some target temps of around -30 C.

I would research this more and read about "water cooled condensers," you can use this part for the heat exchanging device b/t the evaporator and the chilled liquid.
Click to expand...

What he said. :p

Plus, the condensors usually are the craptastic passive jobs you often see on old fridges.
 
LOL.. Hey, Im trying to learn. I dont know everything. But I know some basics about phase-change process. Do you guys have any good diagrams on the setup, with all the parts included. Also Gclg2000 i noticed you sold alot of parts, and you build. what would you suggest for parts? to reach my goals. I dont really want to spend 800 dollars on a system, Just want to play around. w/o blowing anything up.

Thanks
 
arisythila said:
LOL.. Hey, Im trying to learn. I dont know everything. But I know some basics about phase-change process. Do you guys have any good diagrams on the setup, with all the parts included. Also Gclg2000 i noticed you sold alot of parts, and you build. what would you suggest for parts? to reach my goals. I dont really want to spend 800 dollars on a system, Just want to play around. w/o blowing anything up.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Well you really don't need a whole lot. I don't have alot of time at the moment, but i'll give ya a better idea of what you need to make a GOOD system your FIRST time. Rather than a whole bunch of trial/error (although that contriburtes alot to how i learned),
 
I learn best from going in and doing it correctly the first time. I get frusterated when i go in an fail, time after time. Im sure everybody is like that. LOL I just like to know what im getting myself into before I get myself into it. So if you have any suggestions. I can even buy the parts from you.

~Mike
 
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