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Onboard vs Discrete sound
- Thread starter JCNiest5
- Start date
Same as ever, better quality and more features. As good as onboard might be (and opinions vary) discrete soundcards can (not all do, of course) have much better DACs. They can also have headphone amps to drive better headphones, include virtual surround routines like Dolby Headphone for headphone use, and they can support things like Dolby Digital Live for digital multichannel output.
Whether that is worth it to you depends on what you are doing with the system, and what kind of audio gear you are using.
Whether that is worth it to you depends on what you are doing with the system, and what kind of audio gear you are using.
Godmachine
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Plug any half way decent pair of headphones to onboard sound and you'll hear a nice on going hiss. Unless you use the optical output , on board motherboard sound solutions are awful.
If you don't care about sound in general and you are perfectly content with Skullcandy whatever's then your question doesn't need to have a response. Motherboard sound solutions have hit a wall in the last 5+ years , they all offer the same kind of codec (Realtek) and they all offer the same kind of input/outputs and yet they offer none of the quality of a true , well configured discrete solution. The difference between on board sound with a pair of Skull Candy's and a ASUS Xonar One with a pair of high end headphones (say Sennheisers beloved HD650's) is such that even a laymen would hear it. But everyone hears and see's differently so you may not.
If you are unsure if you would even notice the difference go find a location near you that sells such equipment and judge it for yourself (I'm not talking about Best Buy and a pair of Dr.Dre Beats ..those are not anywhere near what I'm trying to encourage) or if you know a friend with a high quality sound card / external DAC and a nice pair of headphones , ask for a listen. If you can't tell the difference then count yourself lucky and relish the bliss of ignorance (I don't mean that insultingly I actually mean that as a served compliment) but if you can then you understand why some people will spend hundreds , thousands and even more to achieve sonic bliss or the same on display and video equipment.
I don't think there is really any other way I personally could explain it. I hope that helps you understand the difference.
That only helps if the onboard solution supports Dolby Ddigital Live or DTS: Connect, which most don't, otherwise you are just getting 2 channel audio (fine unless you are gaming, I guess). A better option is to use HDMI, assuming your video card and receiver can support it.
OmegaSupreme
Limp Gawd
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I've used an X-Fi for quite a while now. I still have the original Creative Xtreme music (revision 1) that I bought years ago. It STILL works perfectly to this day, I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that it's hands down better audio quality than any onboard I've ever heard. It even sounds leaps and bounds better than the Supreme FX X-Fi that I have with my Asus Crosshair IIi formula.
While sure, onboard is getting better, but it's still nowhere as good as a discreet card. Even with dollar store headphones you can tell the difference. The X-Fi's (even the Supreme FX one) sound crisp and clear. There's no motherboard noise from input devices or other static that comes through ever.
I'm not an audiophile by any means, however, I can't stand static or distortion. It drives me up a wall. I've found that onboard audio can't get as loud with as clean audio as a discreet card.
FWIW, I listened with an Altec Lansing gaming headset (circumaural headphones) and 2.1 Harmon Kardon speakers.
While sure, onboard is getting better, but it's still nowhere as good as a discreet card. Even with dollar store headphones you can tell the difference. The X-Fi's (even the Supreme FX one) sound crisp and clear. There's no motherboard noise from input devices or other static that comes through ever.
I'm not an audiophile by any means, however, I can't stand static or distortion. It drives me up a wall. I've found that onboard audio can't get as loud with as clean audio as a discreet card.
FWIW, I listened with an Altec Lansing gaming headset (circumaural headphones) and 2.1 Harmon Kardon speakers.
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Lots of motherboards now available support DD and DTS:C, but I agree that HDMI via a capable video card to receiver is better. It's what I use: GTX 580 --> receiver.
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A lot of the chipsets do, but I don't know that many of the motherboard manufaturers actually pay the royalties to implement the software piece and really support it.
Just install the Nvidia HD Audio driver (comes with the driver package) and then select that as your audio device in Windows. Hook up the reciever via HDMI and off you go.
Since the AMD 5xxx and nVidia 4xx seires and the inclusion of audio via HDMI I've moved to that. There is no possible better way to send sound out your PC than an HDMI interface.
HDMI can transmit a perfect lossless audio signal up to 8 channels and up to 24bits and 192KHz.
HDMI can transmit a perfect lossless audio signal up to 8 channels and up to 24bits and 192KHz.
coolpurplefan
Gawd
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I have a Nvidia GS8800 and Lepai amp: http://www.amazon.com/Lepai-TRIPATH-TA2020-Stereo-Amplifier/dp/B003P534SW
It has an MP3 and RCA jacks in back. I know there are links to 3.5mm male to RCA Y splitter cables on the amazon page but is there a way to hook up the Lepai amp to the HDMI of the video card?
I only have onboard audio at the moment.
It has an MP3 and RCA jacks in back. I know there are links to 3.5mm male to RCA Y splitter cables on the amazon page but is there a way to hook up the Lepai amp to the HDMI of the video card?
I only have onboard audio at the moment.
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IMO, A discrete card is a waste of money unless you have special needs.
Not just one the Optical out case either. At the other end of the scale if you are just running inexpensive speakers it is still a waste as integrated won't introduce any issues.
I do both on the same computer, I run Optical out to my Denon Reciever for HTPC usage (DD/DTS surround). So the DACs in my Denon do all the work. Perfect sound. Also excellent stereo for audio playback.
I also have a second amp running my desktop speakers (which are Old Minimus 7s, not crappy plastic PC speakers). There is no audible hiss or issues that would make me want to upgrade to a discrete sound card for this application.
Now using headphones there is more his out the analog connections, but it is hardly a big deal.
So are you running 1 HDMI from your 580 to your receiver and then another connection from your 580 to your monitor?
Sorry I've just recently thought about trying this but have not found a good source of reference yet.
HardOnForMe
Limp Gawd
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Are you running that Sempron 145 with integrated audio? Doesn't that use some of the cpu?
Yes, but I'm not sure how much it uses the CPU's cycle.
No prob... I had the 580 connected to the monitor via DVI, and connected to the receiver via HDMI.
hmm interesting - so you're still pushing 2560x1600 - do you frame rates take any kind of a hit because of the audio you're pushing out through your vid card?
and I notice in your sig you have an Omega sound card listed - why the sound card when you're handling the audio through the HDMI to your receiver?
I assume it's got some great results?
Yeah, I added the sound card because I have some weird audio problems whenever I try to use a second monitor with my system. Kinda hard to explain, but every time I switch to dual monitors, the HDMI audio shuts off. I asked EVGA about it, but they were at a loss to explain. They did note that the audio drivers have been reported to cause goofy configuration problems for a lot of people. I now just use the 580 for video on my 2 monitors. If I were only using a single monitor I'd have stayed with the 580's HDMI audio.
On a side note, I must admit to being wrong about onboard audio vs. sound card. I always believed there was no difference between the them when running digital out to a receiver. With the sound card, volume is much louder. I was quite surprised by that.
The normal configuration for HDMI is Video Card -> Receiver -> Monitor/TV but alot of receivers won't passthrough a higher resolution than 1080p (1920x1080) which is most likely why Mr. Wolf needs to connect the receiver seperately. Problem with this is that sometimes the receiver will present a nonexistant display to the video card as well assuming there's a monitor downstream from it, which can confuse your multidisplay setup. I don't know how to fix it though 
Not an issue if your monitor is 1080p afaik.
Not an issue if your monitor is 1080p afaik.Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!! That's EXACTLY what was happening. I spent 2 days going back and forth with EVGA trying to fix this problem. We couldn't figure it out, but your explanation makes perfect sense as my main monitor is 2560x1600. Since going with the sound card, I've had no problems running dual monitors and having great audio.The normal configuration for HDMI is Video Card -> Receiver -> Monitor/TV but alot of receivers won't passthrough a higher resolution than 1080p (1920x1080) which is most likely why Mr. Wolf needs to connect the receiver seperately. Problem with this is that sometimes the receiver will present a nonexistant display to the video card as well assuming there's a monitor downstream from it, which can confuse your multidisplay setup. I don't know how to fix it though
The normal configuration for HDMI is Video Card -> Receiver -> Monitor/TV but alot of receivers won't passthrough a higher resolution than 1080p (1920x1080) which is most likely why Mr. Wolf needs to connect the receiver seperately. Problem with this is that sometimes the receiver will present a nonexistant display to the video card as well assuming there's a monitor downstream from it, which can confuse your multidisplay setup. I don't know how to fix it though
that's why I gave up on using HDMI audio, no one could come up with a solution to it...
my receiver would show up as a second display and it was impossible to disable the actual display part of it while passing only audio
The normal configuration for HDMI is Video Card -> Receiver -> Monitor/TV but alot of receivers won't passthrough a higher resolution than 1080p (1920x1080) which is most likely why Mr. Wolf needs to connect the receiver seperately. Problem with this is that sometimes the receiver will present a nonexistant display to the video card as well assuming there's a monitor downstream from it, which can confuse your multidisplay setup. I don't know how to fix it though
Yah this is exactly what I was wondering -so does this mean you will see a frame rate hit when using the HDMI out for audio? (I would suspect so...)
not sure, but in my case the gpu temp runs 15-20C higher if you use HDMI for audio
and since it shows up as a second screen... you can easily lose your mouse or drag windows into it and never get those windows back
OP, the question you asked, "why do I need discrete?" tells the whole story. Sound cards are primarily used to make the sound quality better with a high quality DAC section, and they also have good DSPs that can do EAX and other stuff like Dolby Headphone. If the current sound you are getting from your computer is good enough, in other words you can't complain about anything, then don't worry about it. It will be that much less headache for you.
Some of the Nvidia cards will pass audio over DVI, and then you could use a DVI-HDMI cable to connect the receiver. Did you check into that?
With today's CPUs that isn't really much of a factor.
Godmachine
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It isn't a factor at all. In fact it hasn't been for a long , long time (think late to mid 90's).
Bottom line , Onboard is very basic and for analog output inferior by far versus Discrete solutions. However if you use Onboard for digital output (via optical/coax) then it doesn't really matter. There are people of course , that are convinced that there is a difference in sound from a Discrete digital output and Onboard digital output yet there isn't any proof as such. Once information is converted into digital form its 0 or 1 and that's it.
If you want a high end sounding setup , buy Discrete or output Onboard digital to an external DAC (which is the best option). If you don't give a shit and just want audio , use Onboard.
Only thing I'd add about onboard digital is be certain it has DDL and/or DTS capability if you want to run surround sound through an external receiver. Otherwise, onboard just sends stereo (2.0) to the receiver.
Godmachine
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Indeed. If you want surround sound options than there are things to consider. Discrete would be better in that case but in general and under most circumstances it wouldn't matter.
And most don't.
in all cases does an external DAC mean you are talking about a receiver? Would there be anything else to consider using other than a receiver?
I've looked at Mr. Wolf's sig and the equipment listed there and although I want to pursue the hunt for some great audio, there's no way I'm dropping $2,000 for a receiver who's only use would be PC gaming.
That said I truly believe PC gaming audio is more than just hearing footsteps coming up from behind you or stuff exploding - some of the music in Braid for instance is simply fantastic.
Would I really be hamstringing myself capping my budget at even 750 - 1000$? At that price point is the law of dimishing returns in full effect? (meaning I should focus on a decent 200$ 2.1 set up rather than force an 800$ 5.1 ?)
I've looked at Mr. Wolf's sig and the equipment listed there and although I want to pursue the hunt for some great audio, there's no way I'm dropping $2,000 for a receiver who's only use would be PC gaming.
That said I truly believe PC gaming audio is more than just hearing footsteps coming up from behind you or stuff exploding - some of the music in Braid for instance is simply fantastic.
Would I really be hamstringing myself capping my budget at even 750 - 1000$? At that price point is the law of dimishing returns in full effect? (meaning I should focus on a decent 200$ 2.1 set up rather than force an 800$ 5.1 ?)
No, there are plenty of stand-alone DACs (mostly USB). Something like the Fiio E7, for example. They are mostly focused on headphone use though - you could use them for speakers, but I imagine most people go the receiver route for that.