Nice to see the same bugs still happen in 8 pro...

D

dnottis

Supreme [H]ardness
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Messages
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picked up a key for $14.99. Some bugs from Vista came back and never got squashed. This used to happen in Vista pre SP's. Never in 7, but happens in 8. Assuming some old Vista code got put back in for file transfers.

Disabling Windows Search fixes this. Astounded this made it through beta into shipping copy though, even after initial Win8 patches. Major fucking bug fail...

1832012101759pm81720128.jpg
 
oh no dont ever say something bad about w8 all the teens and early 20's crowd will come running with torches
 
I've had similar experiences with Windows 7, where the file would stop transferring.
 
copies will just hang, drop to Speed 0 bytes/sec

had this with the previews too. Using raid 0 with 2 x F3's. Same drives on another partition running W7 without an issue. Doesnt matter if it's partition to partition of from another 3rd drive... with Windows Search enabled this happens.
 
dnottis said:
Assuming some old Vista code got put back in for file transfers.

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/7613/1832012101759pm81720128.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Bad assumption, that's not how development works here. You seem to be the only one experiencing this. If you could provide a repro, I'm sure the WinSE team would love to take a look if you had a clear repro that wasn't limited to only your system. As it stands though, I've seen you troll with this issue without providing any clear repro that any of us can make.
Click to expand...
 
I thought you weren't even running Windows 8 anymore. And this is like the third thread you've created on the same issue.
 
This is something unrelated to Win and more likely with your system. I've already transferred about 40Terabytes back and forth among various drives and raid arrays, at times as many as 8 or 10 transfers happening in parallel and never as much as a hiccup.

Transferring stuff back and forth over the network between Win8 and Server 2012 is also noticeably faster on 1GigE, 10GigE and 56Gig Infiniband thanks to SMB3.0 .. its actually faster than any Unix platform is capable of with the same hardware.

So while Metro is a big practical joke being played on desktop users the underlying infrastructure is kick ass,
 
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Did you download that big post-RTM update? Also see if your bios has an update for Windows 8, I know my P9X79 WS did, and it fixed several issues.
 
Interesting I have never seen this happen on any of my systems. 6+ Through Vista, 7 or 8. Just today I moved 40 GB of steam games on a windows 8 machine.

Also different groups code different ways but sometimes when a bug was gone in one version and pops up in a later version, it is because they were already working on the newest version separately, then it if fixed in the current version but somehow is not also patched into the newest version when the fix happens.

See valve and other video games where they spend a bunch of time fixing something then the bug pops up in HL2.
 
rudy said:
Interesting I have never seen this happen on any of my systems. 6+ Through Vista, 7 or 8. Just today I moved 40 GB of steam games on a windows 8 machine.

Also different groups code different ways but sometimes when a bug was gone in one version and pops up in a later version, it is because they were already working on the newest version separately, then it if fixed in the current version but somehow is not also patched into the newest version when the fix happens.

See valve and other video games where they spend a bunch of time fixing something then the bug pops up in HL2.
Click to expand...

Rudy, the windows organization is segmented in such a way to prevent occurrences of cross-team regression. While merge conflict resolution occasionally (very rarely) happens, it's never something like "old code from Vista got put back into win8." At the beginning of a project and at the end of every milestone, all teams end up on a unified code base. Not doing things that way would be insane, so the assumption made by dnottis is asinine and just plain incorrect.

Since nobody else seems to be able to replicate this, and he keeps bringing it up, I have to think he's just trolling. Without a repro on a system that isn't his, it seems to me that there's no point in trying to figure out the root cause of his supposed issue.
 
Tawnos said:
Rudy, the windows organization is segmented in such a way to prevent occurrences of cross-team regression. While merge conflict resolution occasionally (very rarely) happens, it's never something like "old code from Vista got put back into win8." At the beginning of a project and at the end of every milestone, all teams end up on a unified code base. Not doing things that way would be insane, so the assumption made by dnottis is asinine and just plain incorrect.

Since nobody else seems to be able to replicate this, and he keeps bringing it up, I have to think he's just trolling. Without a repro on a system that isn't his, it seems to me that there's no point in trying to figure out the root cause of his supposed issue.
Click to expand...

Actually, as much as I hate to gas dnottis up, I did see this bug on RTM when I first ran it. I have not seen it since august, but I run with Search Indexer disabled, so if it's true that disabling the Search service 'fixes' it, then that might explain why I haven't seen it recently. That's why I was asking if he installed the big patch, and updated his bios, because I've done both since then as well, and perhaps those might have fixed it too (maybe it's related to ASUS bios's)..
 
devil22 said:
Did you download that big post-RTM update? Also see if your bios has an update for Windows 8, I know my P9X79 WS did, and it fixed several issues.
Click to expand...

yep and yep - latest bios. Happened with previous bioses too with RTM build.

Its definitely Windows Search, I disabled it, rebooted and copied multiple GBs of Steam and Origin games.

I don't know how to report a bug like this so that it gets fixed. Are you running Raid on your machine?

Teracopy fixes it too.
 
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heatlesssun said:
I thought you weren't even running Windows 8 anymore. And this is like the third thread you've created on the same issue.
Click to expand...

We are post RTM now though.

picked up a copy for $14.99, I wanted to see if the post patches fixed it.

Running on my laptop and setup to dual boot on my main / gaming machine. I've said it before I work in a IT technical support industry so unfortunately I've got to have my hands on stuff like this even if I don't want to.
 
Tawnos said:
Since nobody else seems to be able to replicate this, and he keeps bringing it up, I have to think he's just trolling. Without a repro on a system that isn't his, it seems to me that there's no point in trying to figure out the root cause of his supposed issue.
Click to expand...

So I'm faking the screenshot, photo shopping it, wasting my time for what gain?

I mean seriously... if I was just coming here and saying it over and over without proof you might have a leg to stand on. But I posted an effing screenshot showing a copy that died.
 
dnottis said:
So I'm faking the screenshot, photo shopping it, wasting my time for what gain?
Click to expand...

I believe you, I remember your issue from way back when.

Just...we all remember your "eff Win8" replies and threads in vast numbers so we're surprised you went out and got Win8 at all, even before making sure that your issue was fixed with a driver or whatever.

Well, good luck. Besides the,"Try the Win7 drivers" idea I have no clue what to suggest.
 
Numan said:
I believe you, I remember your issue from way back when.

Just...we all remember your "eff Win8" replies and threads in vast numbers so we're surprised you went out and got Win8 at all, even before making sure that your issue was fixed with a driver or whatever.

Well, good luck. Besides the,"Try the Win7 drivers" idea I have no clue what to suggest.
Click to expand...

well for $15, it's worth that.
 
dnottis said:
yep and yep - latest bios. Happened with previous bioses too with RTM build.

Its definitely Windows Search, I disabled it, rebooted and copied multiple GBs of Steam and Origin games.

I don't know how to report a bug like this so that it gets fixed. Are you running Raid on your machine?

Teracopy fixes it too.
Click to expand...

Not running RAID of any kind. Do you think you are technically inclined enough to perhaps poke around in procmon a little, and see if anything strange appears. It may narrow it down enough to make a better case to MS it is indeed a Windows bug if it is, or it may reveal other issues with something like ASUS bioses. That's all I can think of at this point. And have you seen this bug on any system that doesn't have an ASUS bios? (Sorry if I missed this information in a previous thread..) If it was a Windows bug, I think a lot of people would probably see it, so I'm leaning towards an ASUS issue since we both have ASUS mobos..but then lots of people run Win 8 and Asus I'm sure, so I dunno. One more thing, have you tried running at stock clocks? Because I was overclocked as well...
 
devil22 said:
Not running RAID of any kind. Do you think you are technically inclined enough to perhaps poke around in procmon a little, and see if anything strange appears. It may narrow it down enough to make a better case to MS it is indeed a Windows bug if it is, or it may reveal other issues with something like ASUS bioses. That's all I can think of at this point. And have you seen this bug on any system that doesn't have an ASUS bios? (Sorry if I missed this information in a previous thread..) If it was a Windows bug, I think a lot of people would probably see it, so I'm leaning towards an ASUS issue since we both have ASUS mobos..but then lots of people run Win 8 and Asus I'm sure, so I dunno. One more thing, have you tried running at stock clocks? Because I was overclocked as well...
Click to expand...

well you mentioned duplicating this when using Windows Search too. All my machines have an Asus board in them, even my laptop is asus lol. With being able to disable Windows Search and it working ok I think that kinda of rules out overclocking though - although on RP I was able to duplicate it at stock.

I'll poke around procmon and see if I can find anything. I think most people running SSDs are disabling Windows search, this might be why it's not such a huge issue but who knows.

I managed to find an article referring to this on Winsupersite. He asked for feedback at the end was updated with:

Update: Thanks to everyone that's written in. I'm about 250 emails into this so far and what's now clear is that these problems are both very real and very widespread. I've got a query in with Microsoft and will report back as soon as I can.

http://www.winsupersite.com/article...ues-windows-8-release-preview-unusable-143515
 
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dnottis said:
well you mentioned duplicating this when using Windows Search too. All my machines have an Asus board in them, even my laptop is asus lol. With being able to disable Windows Search and it working ok I think that kinda of rules out overclocking though - although on RP I was able to duplicate it at stock.

I'll poke around procmon and see if I can find anything. I think most people running SSDs are disabling Windows search, this might be why it's not such a huge issue but who knows.

I managed to find an article referring to this on Winsupersite. He asked for feedback at the end was updated with:

Update: Thanks to everyone that's written in. I'm about 250 emails into this so far and what's now clear is that these problems are both very real and very widespread. I've got a query in with Microsoft and will report back as soon as I can.

http://www.winsupersite.com/article...ues-windows-8-release-preview-unusable-143515
Click to expand...

Actually the OC could affect the Search as well as anything, I would think, no? But anyway if it's such that lots of people are reporting it to winsupersite, then it's probably not that. Well since they got a response from MS, they'll hopefully get it patched soon, until then you might as well just keep the search indexer disabled..
 
dnottis said:
So I'm faking the screenshot, photo shopping it, wasting my time for what gain?

I mean seriously... if I was just coming here and saying it over and over without proof you might have a leg to stand on. But I posted an effing screenshot showing a copy that died.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying you faked any of that stuff. I'm simply saying that it's most likely a problem with your system, possibly some driver or software incompatibility or bios setting, etc.

What's trolling is coming in here, repeatedly, in multiple threads, and saying "oh ho ho look at the bug in windows, stupid microsoft can't ship anything right" when we haven't even established that the bug, indeed, originates in windows! Without a clear, cross-box reproduction (or hell, even an intermittent one, the point is that it needs to be the same issue and thus provide a basis for investigation), all you're doing is flinging shit to no avail. In my significant experience, many so-called windows bugs are caused by third party drivers or software. Until we establish that is not the case (by running on a clean install on entirely different hardware) or that the bug is definitely a windows bug (by isolating a set of steps which can reproduce across similar configurations and are always fixed by disabling windows search indexer), I have to wonder why you create so many threads/posts with such trolltastic headlines and or bashing content.

Seriously, if this is a windows 8 bug, I'd love to be able to get you in contact with the people who would have the resources and inclination to fix it. But let's establish that as a fact, first, rather than jumping in and saying the people who work here "suck" or are "major fucking bug fail". I notice in another thread you're running Asus motherboards. By any chance have you installed the AISuite or any of the other Asus tools? I ask because I just had a win7 box that was having intermittent and significant network issues, where my upload speed would drop to 10kb/s (from 5 megabits/s) and download would drop from 33Mb/s to 3. I'd reboot, and it would be fine for a while, so I thought there was some issue with the realtek driver or with the network stack scaling algorithm. Turned out it was the Asus network QOS software, which was silently installed with the AISuite.

The point? Microsoft is a big and easy target to blame for problems, but may not (or may, I'm not excluding that possibility!) be the source of this issue. However, when you come out of the gate swinging, calling people failures and sarcastically mocking their ability to deliver a product, it significantly diminishes my desire, and the desire of other employees in the same situation, to help. When you do it repeatedly, across multiple threads, I think you're trolling, and almost as big of an asshole as wonderfield (apparently I have to say that, because it's my modus operandi. Thanks for the reminder!).
 
Tawnos said:
By any chance have you installed the AISuite or any of the other Asus tools? I ask because I just had a win7 box that was having intermittent and significant network issues, where my upload speed would drop to 10kb/s (from 5 megabits/s) and download would drop from 33Mb/s to 3. I'd reboot, and it would be fine for a while, so I thought there was some issue with the realtek driver or with the network stack scaling algorithm. Turned out it was the Asus network QOS software, which was silently installed with the AISuite.
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No, I dont have any Asus software installed.

I mean it's pretty clear cut.

Windows Search = enabled = copies hang, speed drops to 0 kbytes time just keeps going up.
Windows Search = disabled = copies work

Clearly Windows Search is the fault, not an app.

This happened in CP and RP. It could be the bios, but I've had 3 different updates of bioses through the Win8 dev cycle. I did have this issue on another computer not running Raid 0. I've reinstalled multiple times to see if it was the intel RST drivers, again, it's not. I've done quite a bit of troubleshooting to isolate the issue already. Simply disabling indexing fixes it.
 
dnottis said:
No, I dont have any Asus software installed.

I mean it's pretty clear cut.

Windows Search = enabled = copies hang, speed drops to 0 kbytes time just keeps going up.
Windows Search = disabled = copies work

Clearly Windows Search is the fault, not an app.
Click to expand...

Not clear to me. You're saying that disabling windows search removes the symptom of a problem. That doesn't indicate that it is the cause of the problem. Many pieces of software (and I believe indexer is one of them) rely on communicating with hardware drivers to know the system power state, alert them to upcoming software activities, etc. If a driver or another piece of software says "sure, I can handle <activity x>" but does so incorrectly, it can cause cascading issues or issues in unexpected places. That's not to say windows search _isn't_ causing this, but your description doesn't mean that it _is_. That's like saying "well, I took some pseudoephedrine and now my nose isn't runny and my sinuses aren't blocked, so my cold is gone."

However, if you have the system in that state again, open up process monitor and attach it to explorer and see what's blocking it. You can analyze the wait chain and see why it's not progressing.
 
dnottis said:
No, I dont have any Asus software installed.

I mean it's pretty clear cut.

Windows Search = enabled = copies hang, speed drops to 0 kbytes time just keeps going up.
Windows Search = disabled = copies work

Clearly Windows Search is the fault, not an app.

This happened in CP and RP. It could be the bios, but I've had 3 different updates of bioses through the Win8 dev cycle. I did have this issue on another computer not running Raid 0. I've reinstalled multiple times to see if it was the intel RST drivers, again, it's not. I've done quite a bit of troubleshooting to isolate the issue already. Simply disabling indexing fixes it.
Click to expand...

ASUS has had "unique" issues with their hardware that other brands don't exhibit. This could be a firmware issue. I've never experienced this "bug"... ever ... But, I've never owned ASUS motherboards or GPU's either... Just saying..
 
I have all the post-RTM updates and yes, Win 8 has tons of bugs from Win 7. Unavailable network resources still hang Explorer, killing a task still leaves its icon in the status bar, there are still freezes in the entire UI for no reason, the useless 'disk is in use by a program' dialog without bothering to tell the user what's locking it, etc.

All of these are long standing bugs. Whether MS considers them bugs is a different story. It's obvious most of the effort went into WinRT/Metro so I'm not surprised none of this was even looked at. But this stuff is the core of an OS and should have been fixed.
 
Tawnos said:
Not clear to me. You're saying that disabling windows search removes the symptom of a problem. That doesn't indicate that it is the cause of the problem. Many pieces of software (and I believe indexer is one of them) rely on communicating with hardware drivers to know the system power state, alert them to upcoming software activities, etc. If a driver or another piece of software says "sure, I can handle <activity x>" but does so incorrectly, it can cause cascading issues or issues in unexpected places. That's not to say windows search _isn't_ causing this, but your description doesn't mean that it _is_. That's like saying "well, I took some pseudoephedrine and now my nose isn't runny and my sinuses aren't blocked, so my cold is gone."

However, if you have the system in that state again, open up process monitor and attach it to explorer and see what's blocking it. You can analyze the wait chain and see why it's not progressing.
Click to expand...

yes disabling it fixes it. I dont have any software installed, brand new clean install still.
 
dnottis said:
yes disabling it fixes it. I dont have any software installed, brand new clean install still.
Click to expand...

I feel like we're having a language barrier here. It fixes the symptom, which is a stalled file copy. That, alone, does not determine the source.

Have you looked at the wait chain of a stalled copy yet to see what it's halting on?
 
Do you happen to have any NTFS Junctions in your Origin folder to move games to another drive?

I experienced this issue when moving Steam games from one drive to another.

I added a new disk prior to installing Windows 8, and then after installing Windows 8, I swapped the drive letters around. (drives connected to the Marvell controller are now showing as being removable so I wanted to separate them)

When moving my Steam games from the old drive to the new one, transfers would stall whenever they encountered an old NTFS junction. (that had been created in Windows 7 with Link Shell Extension and now presumably point to the wrong directory)
 
Tawnos said:
I feel like we're having a language barrier here. It fixes the symptom, which is a stalled file copy. That, alone, does not determine the source.

Have you looked at the wait chain of a stalled copy yet to see what it's halting on?
Click to expand...

No, I've disabled Windows Search and moved about 180GB without further issue. I don't feel like enabling it and intentionally breaking copies again.
 
odditory said:
So while Metro is a big practical joke being played on desktop users the underlying infrastructure is kick ass,
Click to expand...

I know. Improving the boot process is what I need the most. Yes, I reboot my system at work often. Don't ask.
 
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