New Console Games Take 8 to 10 Times The Amount Of Work

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Wait, I thought this new generation of consoles was going to be easier to develop games for? This guy is saying that it takes "eight to ten times" the amount of work compared to last-gen consoles. :eek:

But it's clear that heightened game quality leads to a rise in the number of man hours. The amount of work involved in making games for next-gen consoles is eight to ten times greater than what is required for the current generation of consoles.
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Yeah, if that were the case they wouldn't be making games at the same price point. Their margins would be impossible.
 
Well they had to re-write their entire engine for x86... Coming from PPC based RISC programming...

That's a big deal.
 
it's ok. the 50 bajillion dollars they get selling the game more than covers the cost.
 
Arcygenical said:
Well they had to re-write their entire engine for x86... Coming from PPC based RISC programming...

That's a big deal.
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Capcom releases a lot of their games on PC, they are no strangers to x86 development. Many of their big multiplatform titles for the last gen release on PS3/360/PC:

http://www.g4tv.com/games/publishers/capcom/1050/
 
You've got to take into consideration how next gen business models work.
First, you have to make an entire game, then have you developers cut it up until its at its bare working minimals, charge full price for the core and then release the rest of the game at $2-$10 a pop so it becomes fun to play.
Its a tough balancing act.
 
SGA76 said:
You've got to take into consideration how next gen business models work.
First, you have to make an entire game, then have you developers cut it up until its at its bare working minimals, charge full price for the core and then release the rest of the game at $2-$10 a pop so it becomes fun to play.
Its a tough balancing act.
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Aye. Used to be you could just release a game and call it a day. Now you need to release it + store exclusive DLC + DLC included on the installation media and keeping that locked down so hackers can't access it without paying + future DLC + microtransaction / store setup + DRM schemes and always online activation servers + preparing press releases to blame pirates if the game doesn't sell as well as your shareholders expect it to + everything else. :p
 
Arcygenical said:
Well they had to re-write their entire engine for x86... Coming from PPC based RISC programming...

That's a big deal.
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So then don't develop for one platform and switch, then complain about the work involved in re-writing your engine. No one cares.

Like this is any different than anyone else changing platforms for development.. /eyeroll.
 
Arcygenical said:
Well they had to re-write their entire engine for x86... Coming from PPC based RISC programming...

That's a big deal.
Click to expand...

im not sure making an engine should be considered in the amount of work needed to make games on the new platform unless they make a new engine for every single game.

making the engine is a 1 time ordeal aside from miner updates ect that might be planned but that stuff should be minor compared to converting or making the engine from scratch.

and if making an engine was that big of a deal for them man hour wise they could just license one of the many engines out there already that might fill their intended role.
 
I wish it costed them even more to develop games for a console so the consoles would just vanish off planet earth. Even my kid hates consoles and loves his pc ! He told me about a month ago how much he loves the pc with better graphics and games but most importantly how he can use the internet, do school work etc. I also bought him a very nice laptop which he takes to school and to my amazement he said most children don't have any idea that a laptop could have such cool games and how it makes consoles look like crap.
 
yelsewshane said:
I wish it costed them even more to develop games for a console so the consoles would just vanish off planet earth. Even my kid hates consoles and loves his pc ! He told me about a month ago how much he loves the pc with better graphics and games but most importantly how he can use the internet, do school work etc. I also bought him a very nice laptop which he takes to school and to my amazement he said most children don't have any idea that a laptop could have such cool games and how it makes consoles look like crap.
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How much is said laptop?
 
The current Gen Consoles appear to be much closer to PCs, so should be much easier I'd think than the 360 or PS3.
 
Nobody could afford to make games if that were true except 2 or 3 major studios that could afford those up front costs.
 
Coding is easier, but increased hardware ability allows for sexier textures, smoother shader effects, etc. porting from pc to a new console or vice versa will be more simplified, but making the game in the first place, adding all the flare and fabulous with ultra high texture resolutions and detail simply are more work. but here's a real suggestion for blockbuster game companies or franchises, (eg: COD, GTA, etc), lower the price. if you can rake in 880million on day one, or over a billion in a few days, you could retain those numbers and have a wider userbase who might buy your next game too....if its not the same 70 or 80 bucks as some lesser game that is gambling on making sales. huge franchises like those arent gambling....but growing userbase is more important. make the game 50 bucks, and you'll see hugely more consumers. i only have so much time, so i pick my games according to how valuable my time is, and how much the game will cost that i basically never play. if the game is cheaper, i buy it, play it a few times, and sale is made, and i'm happy.
 
So they admit they haven't been doing shit for the last 6 years, thanks for confirming that Capcom.
 
I think they have a point, but not 8-10 times the work. When it comes to their engines, they have the PC version ready right there. The Xbox One is a Windows machine they need to figure out the esRAM for because the devkit updates still don't cover it well, then they need to do in-house testing and making sure it works with the other two operating systems on the machine.

For the PS4 they can just port things over, add DS4 support and have it running in less than an actual week (indies and some AAA studios have talked of this) if they have a hint of competency and if it runs well enough, call it a day spending the rest of the time is optimizing because there are no layers of OS and drivers between code and hardware compared to PC (I mean Windows) and Xbox One.

I'm thinking this is Capcom being the modern day Capcom and needing to risk going the way of the dodo in order to shape the hell up, unless they just worked themselves into a corner with the engines and porting systems they developed. We'll see when Deep Down PS4 begins testing in February for Japan, hopefully I can get myself in.
 
What he means is that these machines are so powerful that to take advantage of them would require more effort. It's not that x86 hardware is more work, just that adding more models, textures, and physics that he couldn't do before is now more work.

Think of it like this. You see a door and try to open it, and it can't open, but hey that's normal. Now I better find a room behind the door, and be able to blow apart the lock with my rocket launcher. Cause wooden doors and explosions don't mix. The work to do all that is not the same and putting some invisible wall that prevents you from going into areas.
 
Wildace said:
im not sure making an engine should be considered in the amount of work needed to make games on the new platform unless they make a new engine for every single game.

making the engine is a 1 time ordeal aside from miner updates ect that might be planned but that stuff should be minor compared to converting or making the engine from scratch.

and if making an engine was that big of a deal for them man hour wise they could just license one of the many engines out there already that might fill their intended role.
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I agree.

This was sort of my point, however convoluted and lost it might be. I feel he WAS including this time in. Additionally, with the engines and hardware we now have, advanced physics (e.g. quoted in the article "fluid" like fire rather than billboards) engine, and game, coding time should naturally be higher.

So, either he was bullshitting, or he WAS including the engine coding time in his quote...
 
I believe it seeing how there are little to no games for the "new" Consoles.
 
Arcygenical said:
Well they had to re-write their entire engine for x86... Coming from PPC based RISC programming...

That's a big deal.
Click to expand...

Since Devil May Cry 4, Capcom has been developing in a PC environment that is designed to compile for each console, for co-development and further tweaking.
 
xX326Xx said:
Dead Rising 3 is one of the only things I like about my Xbox One. That is a pretty blanket statement. Street Fighter, Mega Man anyone?
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Street Fighter - (along with all their fighting games) have turned into absolute DLC and re-release whoring machines. In this day and age you'd expect one or the other, but to do both right behind one another (for crazy prices like $7 for a few costumes, $40 re-releases that are just palette/model swapped new chars, new costumes, and balance fixes)

Mega Man - Effectively a dead series, MM9 and MM10 were just cash-in homages to the older games (same graphics style even). The other MM spinoff series (to include the othewise good MMX series) haven't seen releases in years. Oh and SF vs MM, a one-off they got another crew to make.
 
Bullshit excuses given out because they hope later on we will just shut up and buy when they kick the retail price of games up to $70+.
 
Well, stop designing shitty DLC fests that we're all tired of and refuse to buy and write a REAL game and we'll buy it!
You're saying its harder because the AMD APUs really aren't that powerful running single threaded game engines and you HAVE to write for multithreading in order for anything to look good at 1080p.
Some of their x86 titles have been designed to run on multi cored CPUs, but there's not many.
 
Steve said:
Wait, I thought this new generation of consoles was going to be easier to develop games for? This guy is saying that it takes "eight to ten times" the amount of work compared to last-gen consoles. :eek:
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Interesting.
So why hasnt this complaint been made against the development of 1080p PC games compared to previous gen consoles?
I call BS, especially as they already code PC games.
 
Not sure I buy that. 8 to 10 times MORE? So instead of a new game every ~2 years we'll get one every 16 - 20 years? Lulz
 
>Read article again
>Is including the development of a new graphics engine, which they will use in all their new games, as time "Spent" coding in addition to all these new games

Well SHIIIIIIIIIIIIT that means Epic has spent 10+ years developing every single game they put out since they coded the Unreal Engine themselves! Gotta add all that time together now!
 
MrLonghair said:
I think they have a point, but not 8-10 times the work. When it comes to their engines, they have the PC version ready right there. The Xbox One is a Windows machine they need to figure out the esRAM for because the devkit updates still don't cover it well, then they need to do in-house testing and making sure it works with the other two operating systems on the machine.

For the PS4 they can just port things over, add DS4 support and have it running in less than an actual week (indies and some AAA studios have talked of this) if they have a hint of competency and if it runs well enough, call it a day spending the rest of the time is optimizing because there are no layers of OS and drivers between code and hardware compared to PC (I mean Windows) and Xbox One.

I'm thinking this is Capcom being the modern day Capcom and needing to risk going the way of the dodo in order to shape the hell up, unless they just worked themselves into a corner with the engines and porting systems they developed. We'll see when Deep Down PS4 begins testing in February for Japan, hopefully I can get myself in.
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Yeah, it doesn't make sense that it takes 8 to 10 times more work to make a game for what is essentially a Windows gaming PC and a Linux gaming PC.

The XONE may need a few extra steps because of the ESRAM and customized APU, but it shouldn't be any more difficult than making a Windows game with the same DirectX API and development tools. It'd be like having to add support for an additional piece of hardware for your game, like a developer adding Oculus Rift support to an FPS game.

The PS4 is essentially less customized than the XONE so making a game for it is just doing almost the same thing one would do if making for a Linux-distro. And, not having to use DirectX but a variant of OpenGL.

If that's more difficult than PC gaming, then PC gaming developers probably have it easy making great games that aren't console ports. :D

(Be right back, going to laugh in the corner at that idea.)
 
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I find it interesting that the PC is on MT Framework rather on Panta Rhei, hence I'm calling it bull on 8-10 times the amount of work on next gen consoles
 
Krenum said:
I believe it seeing how there are little to no games for the "new" Consoles.
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I agree and "argh" over how there's NOTHING until March, but I want to say that Sony did the right thing by approaching indies the way I approach a new kind of chocolate bar or new pizza
 
Capcom is in deep financial trouble, I think they have less than 125m cash down to run their company, and the only next gen game that they did wasn't even them, was a team in Vancouver (dr3)
 
Steve said:
This guy is saying that it takes "eight to ten times" the amount of work compared to last-gen consoles. :eek:
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Why is anyone surprised? The new consoles are new and the developers need to get used to them, create new tools etc. Once that's done I expect the amount of work required to drop considerably.
 
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