New Build Questions price/parts

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Nagstaku

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
169
I am going to do a build for a friend, heres his situation:

He wants large amounts of storage, he is an illustrator and will also be doing potential HD video editing, and he's not worried much about gaming. Price point I think is around 1000$.

I was thinking of going Q6600 (probably because that's what I still use) OC'd to 3.0+
4gb's DDR3 RAM (or 8?)
4x1.5TB HD's put on an onboard RAID 5
GTS 250

i figure i can get all of the above for ~650$

then i just need to know whats a good energy efficient PSU, what CHEAP cooler would work best (my Tuniq runs my Q66 @ 3.2, and i bought it for 10$), and what motherboard would be best for all this in mind (9 out of 10 motherboards I buy are from openbox on newegg and half are ASUS).

I'm willing to hear any advice, maybe I'm going the totally wrong direction, any input is accepted. I'm not set on anything and I haven't purchased anything yet. Just keep in mind budget is going to be an underlying theme.

Gracias! ;)
 
What motherboard are you using? I assume you already have the Q6600 because I think it has been discontinued.
Go with 8gb of ram, the more memory the better for that application. And yeah a quad core or higher would be better.
Also very important - make sure you have a 64-bit operating system so the system can take advantage of all the ram. Win7 64 bit would be best.

To get a good video card for rendering, quadro fx is recommended but they are expensive.
I'd suggest Quadro FX 580 512MB if you want a professional entry level card without spending too much. They will accelerate that type of application MUCH better than a game oriented GTS 250. If you're willing to spend about $100 more, you could go with a quadro fx 1700.
 
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yea, i'll mention the quadro line, i just researched a bunch of info about its ability to render more accurately and faster in design programs.

definitely going to be win7-64.

i am personally using an MSI p35-d3 motherboard w/ 4gb DDR3 and its awesome, bought it for 50$ like 2.5 years ago when DDR3 was brand new and newegg had to sell openbox DDR3 boards cheap cause no one wanted em cause DDR3 was like 300$

I will probably pick some 775 board off newegg openbox with onboard RAID for around 70$. Probably an ASUS because their RMA is untouchable if it ever breaks.

And i haven't considered RAID 10 because thats just 1+0 which would be a waste of drives, although I did consider RAID 6. It will depend on how much budget is left.
 
Unless you actually have a spare Q6600 for your friend or can get it for $70, don't bother with a new socket 775 build. Just a total waste of money since AMD now offers CPUs that perform just as well or better than socket 775 CPUs but at a significantly lower cost. Especially for a $1000 budget, you can easily get a faster AMD Phenom II setup or a Core i5 setup.

Case in point: the $100 AMD Athlon II X4 635 CPU performs just as well as the Q6600 if not better in most situations.
 
Make sure the drives are ok for Raid 5, the WD drives need the RE version, the black and green series and maybe blue will time out in a Raid 5.

Google "TLER"

Here is some discussion about the WD's.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/251076-32-raid-issues-western-digital-hard-disk

Talk to the storage guys in that forum before you decide on drives. My Hatachis have no issue with the Intel onboard raid. It may just be that basically WD has removed a featrue from their less expensive drives to steer raid users to the more expensive drives. Or not. /shrug. Just be careful with WD drives if you use them.

Thats going to blow you budge as the 1TB's RE drives are $139 double the cost of the normal drives.

No clue about Seagate etc. Dont want to scare you I like the onboard raid 5 and plenty fast for what I do. I even has the OS on it, which is not generally recommended.
 
okay, so i got the official budget on it, he says 1400 or 1500.. whichever necessary to get the best/right parts. He also said he would wait on a raid 5 array, save for the later times, so probably just get a 1.5tb storage disk.

now heres what I'm thinking,, should I raid 0 some SSD's for the OS drive?

Also, I was just going to buy a Q6600 for like 100$ off ebay or wherever. Keep in mind I would be OC'ing it to at least 3.0ghz and running it with DDR3.

This is however the bulk of my questioning here: would I be better off going with a more modern chip (like mentioned the X4 635 or some core i5 chip)?

I don't know how well anything overclocks anymore since I only get a couple hours a week to play with electronics and lately thats been photography. I'll probably look into it all now...
 
Nagstaku said:
okay, so i got the official budget on it, he says 1400 or 1500.. whichever necessary to get the best/right parts. He also said he would wait on a raid 5 array, save for the later times, so probably just get a 1.5tb storage disk.

now heres what I'm thinking,, should I raid 0 some SSD's for the OS drive?

Also, I was just going to buy a Q6600 for like 100$ off ebay or wherever. Keep in mind I would be OC'ing it to at least 3.0ghz and running it with DDR3.

This is however the bulk of my questioning here: would I be better off going with a more modern chip (like mentioned the X4 635 or some core i5 chip)?

I don't know how well anything overclocks anymore since I only get a couple hours a week to play with electronics and lately thats been photography. I'll probably look into it all now...
Click to expand...
Yes - you'd be better off with the I5/i7. Not even a fair question. For video using good editors (Adobe, Vegas, etc) the added instruction set gives the i3/i5/i7 a significant clock-for-clock advantage. Plus they overclock like crazy.

If you can afford it, a small raid-0 array of SSDs for the C drive makes a HUGE difference for video editing. You don't need a special controller for it - just use the on-board Raid to build it (or even Windows software raid, except that you can't use that for the boot drive).
 
ok, so this will sound semi dumb being in the intel forum, but the build i just proposed to fit into a 1450$ budget is as follows:

LG DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model GH24NS50 - OEM
$24.99


Seagate Barracuda XT ST32000641AS 2TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard
$199.99


Open Box: MSI 890FXA-GD70 AM3 AMD 890FX SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD
$150.99


ICY DOCK MB882SP-1S-1B 2.5" to 3.5" SSD & SATA Hard Drive Converter - Black
$19.99


Antec EarthWatts EA-500D Green 500W ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V 80 PLUS BRONZE
$64.99


Mushkin Enhanced Silverline 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666)
$20.00 Mail-in Rebate
$249.99


AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core
$159.99


PNY VCQFX580-PCIE-PB Quadro FX 580 512MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16
$159.99


Micron RealSSD C300 MTFDDAC128MAG-1G1 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
$339.99

Titan Fenrir Universal CPU Cooler - TTC-NK85TZ/V2
$50.00

One of my old cases (still nice thou!)
$50.00

Total Cost: 1470$ with a 20$ Mail in rebate

If anyone can get a better intel lineup with the same cost for mobo/cpu that has 6gb SATA I'll totally take it, but I don't even know if he will be able to make this in his budget as he doesn't have a monitor yet.
 
Yeah that AMD setup sucks TBH. You can do better:
$200 - Intel Core i5 750 CPU
$130 - Asus P7P55D-E LX Intel P55 ATX Motherboard
$168 - 2 x G.Skill F3-10600CL9D-4GBNT 2 x 2GB DDR3 1333 RAM
$180 - PNY VCGGTX260CXPB GeForce GTX 260 Core 216 896MB PCI-E Video Card
$220 - Intel SSDSA2MH080G2R5 2.5" 80GB SSD
$140 - Hitachi Deskstar HD32000 IDK/7K (0S00164) 2TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$25 - LG GH22NS50 DVD Burner
$65 - Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W PSU
$40 - Thermalright Cogage TRUE Spirit HSF
$70 - Cooler Master CM690 II ATX Case
$300 - Viewsonic 23" IPS Widescreen LCD Monitor
-----
Total: $1538 plus tax and shipping.

In case anyone is wondering, I went with the GTX 260 since it's the lowest end video card I could find that could be made to work with Adobe's CS5's MPE feature. Anyway, the Core i5 750 is faster than that AMD setup in video editing. The above setup has a better quality PSU, better cooling HSF, equally performing RAM and hard drive, and a good quality case. And to top off the build, I included an IPS LCD monitor for obvious reasons.
 
GIGABYTE GA-P55A-UD3P LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

$159.99 - 15.00 MIR = 144.99

Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor BX80605I5750

$194.99 + Free Shipping

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL9D-8GBRL

$214.99 + Free Shipping

PNY VCQFX580-PCIE-PB Quadro FX 580 512MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card

$159.99

Corsair P128 CMFSSD-128GBG2D 2.5" 128GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

$375 - $40 MIR = $335

SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

$79.99 + Free Shipping

Prolimatech Megahalems Rev.B CPU Cooler

$62.00

CORSAIR CMPSU-550VX 550W ATX12V V2.2 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply

$79.99 - $10 MIR = $69.99

Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

$99.95 + Free Shipping

ASUS VH242H Black 23.6" 5ms HDMI Full 1080P Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 1000:1 (ASCR 20000:1) Built in Speakers

$189.99 - $10 MIR = $179.99

$1472.88 before shipping, but including a monitor.
 
I wouldn't recommend an SSD personally (but that puts me in the minority). It makes things "snappy," but HDDs in RAID can give him a lot more capacity for the dollar and equivalent read/write transfer rates (depending on the number of drives).

The Phenom 965 is a fine choice. For a build in this price range, I think a 1055T is worth considering.

I'd suggest the Rosewill RG630-S12 over the Antec EA-500D. Before anyone says "Rosewill is junk," read the review.

Just things off the top of my head. The rig you have configured would be a fine machine as well.
 
TIGR said:
I'd suggest the Rosewill RG630-S12 over the Antec EA-500D. Before anyone says "Rosewill is junk," read the review.
Click to expand...

HWSecrets tends to be very very liberal with their awards. In addition, looking at the OScope shots, the Rosewill's ripple is a bit worse than the EA-500D's OScope's shots.

It's not junk but it's still not something I'd recommend for a $1500 PC. Maybe for a $500 PC.
 
I don't recommend the Rosewill based on any awards HS gave it; I recommend it based on price and the test data shown.

Ripple may be a bit worse, but besides the fact that unit-to-unit variance could eat up that difference fairly easily, the Rosewill's ripple and voltage regulation are more than "good enough." It's downright impressive how good the voltage is on some of the latest PSUs, but we must also recognize that there's no practical benefit from improvement past a certain point.
 
TIGR said:
Ripple may be a bit worse, but besides the fact that unit-to-unit variance could eat up that difference fairly easily, the Rosewill's ripple and voltage regulation are more than "good enough." It's downright impressive how good the voltage is on some of the latest PSUs, but we must also recognize that there's no practical benefit from improvement past a certain point.
Click to expand...

While I agree that there are some cases and situations where the higher quality doesn't necessarily provide a practical benefit to justify the costs, the PSUs recommended so far (except for the Corsair) are only a mere $15 more than the Rosewill. IMO, the higher quality, the likelier higher chance of longevity, and lesser degradation rate is worth the mere $15. It's a drop in the hat for a $1500 build.
 
While it does seem trivial to debate about something that makes a $15 difference out of $1500, I have learned over time to consider each component carefully and respect the way these small things add up. I consider the Rosewill to be a solid unit. Sure, if any of its equivalents in output from Corsair, PC Power and Cooling, Seasonic, Silverstone, etc. were cheaper, I'd get them instead. But I wouldn't consider it worth paying 30% more (you said $15 and the RG630-S12 is $50) for them.

30% is the difference between a $1500 system and a $1950 system.

That all said, do you have non-anecdotal data showing a measurable difference between the RG630-S12 and other suggested units, in terms of longevity and degradation? That could definitely change my opinion. BTW I really am all ears and objective—if there are problems with the RG630-S12, I'd sincerely like to know.
 
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TIGR said:
Consider what 30% means if you take that approach to selecting all the components. That's the difference between a $1500 system and a $1950 system.

That all said, do you have non-anecdotal data showing a measurable difference between the RG630-S12 and other suggested units, in terms of longevity and degradation? Evidence of a significant difference could definitely change my opinion.
Click to expand...

Yes, but we're not taking that approach. We're taking the actual costs approach.

No, I do not have non-anecdotal data showing a measurable differenece, That statement was based on my opinion on the quality of parts used in the Rosewill PSU.
 
If it's not the right approach for the rest of the system, it doesn't seem any more wise to use it here.

However, I shall humbly bow out of this debate at this point to allow the thread to stay more on topic! I don't want to beat this one small part to death.
 
vertex 2 ssd 60gb can be had for 130 bucks after 10 dollar rebate and 20 in bing cash back. its one of the best ssd out with the sandforce controller. oh the site is tiger direct
 
does anyone know if 2x vertex 2 60gb SSD's in raid 0 will outperform the C300? Statistically wise i see yes, but reality wise i don't know. I tried googling anyone who had a raid 0 of them and couldn't find anything.

Obviously it would be significantly cheaper and that much technologically more awesome. Also, would the onboard "raid" from the p55 board be able to accomplish the speeds? I wouldn't be worried about it leeching CPU cycles to run the raid setup but I would want to be sure it was faster in the end than a C300 SSD. hmmmm.........


Also, I'm assessing the following change to the build order based on an intel now:

LG DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model GH24NS50 - OEM
$24.99


HITACHI Deskstar HD32000 IDK/7K (0S00164) 2TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
$139.99


ICY DOCK MB882SP-1S-1B 2.5" to 3.5" SSD & SATA Hard Drive Converter - Black
$19.99


Antec EarthWatts EA-500D Green 500W ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply
$64.99


Mushkin Enhanced Silverline 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model 996770
$249.99


Open Box: ASUS P7P55D-E LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
$114.99

Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor BX80605I5750
$194.99


PNY VCQFX580-PCIE-PB Quadro FX 580 512MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card
$159.99


Micron RealSSD C300 MTFDDAC128MAG-1G1 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
$339.99

+$50 for one of my old cases and 50$ for the Thermalright CoGage HSF from frozencpu.com

(EDIT: total cost being $1409.91)

monitor still up in the air, i will try to persuade him into getting a 300$ 23" IPS monitor but who knows. I think he was originally hoping to not peak 1500$.

I kept the RAM cause I wanted 8gb, and the SSD for the superior App loading speed. I should specify that those are more important than video editing, he will primarily (90% of the time) be doing work in photoshop and illustrator.
 
Nagstaku said:
Mushkin Enhanced Silverline 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model 996770
$249.99
.......

I kept the RAM cause I wanted 8gb, and the SSD for the superior App loading speed. I should specify that those are more important than video editing, he will primarily (90% of the time) be doing work in photoshop and illustrator.
Click to expand...
Do note that my list did include 8GB of RAM:

Danny Bui said:
$168 - 2 x G.Skill F3-10600CL9D-4GBNT 2 x 2GB DDR3 1333 RAM
Click to expand...

$82 cheaper and same real world performance.
 
Jelokin1 said:
Buy nothing rosewill please, its neweggs in house brand
Click to expand...

It can be an in-house brand of whatever company it wants; that has no bearing on the quality of its products. It is never wise to select a component based entirely upon brand (though this should be one factor in many cases). Components must be chosen on their own merits, product by product, not brand by brand. All brands have varying levels of quality throughout their product line.
 
TIGR said:
All brands have varying levels of quality throughout their product line.
Click to expand...

Ahh yes, it is true. You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar! ;)

Danny Bui said:
Do note that my list did include 8GB of RAM:
...
$82 cheaper and same real world performance.
Click to expand...

Oh! I didn't catch that. And I did have the question btw of what kind of trouble I might be asking for using 4 sticks of ram verse 2 sticks when it comes to overclocking. I know obviously I can limit how much the memory actually gets overclocked but I'm from the days of OC'ing my opty from 2.0 to 3.0 with a 300mhz 1:1 FSB running mushkin BH5's (at 2-2-2-5) :D:D

(i laughed when i sold that system for 150$ to my brother in law 2 years ago)
 
Nagstaku said:
Oh! I didn't catch that. And I did have the question btw of what kind of trouble I might be asking for using 4 sticks of ram verse 2 sticks when it comes to overclocking. I know obviously I can limit how much the memory actually gets overclocked but I'm from the days of OC'ing my opty from 2.0 to 3.0 with a 300mhz 1:1 FSB running mushkin BH5's (at 2-2-2-5) :D:D

(i laughed when i sold that system for 150$ to my brother in law 2 years ago)
Click to expand...

4 sticks of DDR3 Ram should run fine. The memory just needs to run at a speed to match the frequency of the CPU OC. I like tighter timings, but I don't think they would make a huge difference. So you can potentially save some money there by going for say CL8 memory.

As for the Raid 0 SSDs. From what I've heard, when you put SSDs in RAID, they lose TRIM support. TRIM is a windows7 feature that makes sure that SSDs don't lose performance over time. So imo RAID SSDs is not worth it yet.

Also, ditch the icydock. Get a silverstone 2.5" SSD adapter bracket instead. Not only is it a ton cheaper. But I have seen loss of performance when installing an SSD through the icydock interface. The SSD just ran much more sluggishly. Connecting the SSD directly to the motherboard's SATA port eliminates the chance of slowdown. That's just been my personal experience with icydocks. If you still want an icydock, I can send you the one I'm not using for like half retail price. ;-)
 
Nagstaku said:
Oh! I didn't catch that. And I did have the question btw of what kind of trouble I might be asking for using 4 sticks of ram verse 2 sticks when it comes to overclocking. I know obviously I can limit how much the memory actually gets overclocked but I'm from the days of OC'ing my opty from 2.0 to 3.0 with a 300mhz 1:1 FSB running mushkin BH5's (at 2-2-2-5) :D:D
Click to expand...
Theoretically, you do have a lower chance of a higher OC with 4 sticks of RAM. Not always the case but not out of the question either. However for a moderate OC, 4 sticks of RAM should be fine. If you're trying to break world records for an OC or have the shittiest luck in the world, go for 2 sticks of RAM.
 
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