Happy Hopping
Supreme [H]ardness
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how often does this happen on your day to day use of this screen?
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List of LCDs with/without "grid-induced color distortion/streaking
- Thread starter xIps
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how often does this happen on your day to day use of this screen?
Just to add my name to the list, I have a Philips BDM4065UC and confirm I am getting this artifact. It can get very distracting, would love to find a fix.
I know the panel is BGR pixel layout. I tried turning off Cleartype on win 7, thinking there may be some sort of pixel tomfoolery going on there, but no dice. Bummed, in all other respects it is a really nice panel!
I know the panel is BGR pixel layout. I tried turning off Cleartype on win 7, thinking there may be some sort of pixel tomfoolery going on there, but no dice. Bummed, in all other respects it is a really nice panel!
I use a lot of dcc software, Maya nd Fusion in particular. This issue shows up in both. They both have fairly neutral dark gray interfaces. In fusion, the viewport will streak over into the grey GUI, living a distinct pinkish band. It gives me the irrits
snakeboxmedia
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Wow im not sure if I should be happy or sad here. I just got the phillips 40" and I love it, how ever this happens on mine too.... of course now I see.
I thought it might be broken, I didn't even know this was a thing, I guess I was too used to IPS panels.
It's really freaking terrible to look at and highly unreliable colour wise, which is my main concern. So it's actually considered "normal" and not much can be done about it?
btw this is what mine looks like:
http://imgur.com/a/wpRoj
I thought it might be broken, I didn't even know this was a thing, I guess I was too used to IPS panels.
It's really freaking terrible to look at and highly unreliable colour wise, which is my main concern. So it's actually considered "normal" and not much can be done about it?
btw this is what mine looks like:
http://imgur.com/a/wpRoj
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In what context did you see it before finding this thread?
I don't think there's much to do other than picking monitors without this "feature".
I'm surprised this sort of thing happens with digital displays. I went around and tested most of the monitors in the house, with the following results:
No artefacts:
Artefacts:
No artefacts:
- Samsung U32E850R (PVA)
- HP ZR2740w (IPS)
- Asus VH222H (TN)
- Innolux AT056TN52V.3 (TN)
Artefacts:
- BenQ V2210 Eco (TN)
It's not an analog artifact, but I assume it's done on purpose to counter something in the analog domain. It would be interesting to find out why it's only present in some panels and not others. Also, when the same panel is used in multiple monitors from different manufacturers, it would be intriguing to see if they all share the same behavior.
Interesting build you have there with that Innolux.
Interesting build you have there with that Innolux.
Daniel_Chang
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I've got 5 monitors to test. I did two tonight. I'll do the rest on Sunday.
No Artifacts:
-Apple 27" Cinema Display (not the Thunderbolt Display) (LG IPS)
Artifacts:
-Monoprice PID 12520 27" WQHD (no longer available, recalled and discontinued within 3 months due to massive defects, mine goes back this week) (AUO AHVA)
TBD (likely by Sunday):
-Samsung S27B550 (Samsung TN)
-BenQ EW2750ZL (AUO AMVA+)
-HP 25XW (LG AH-IPS)
No Artifacts:
-Apple 27" Cinema Display (not the Thunderbolt Display) (LG IPS)
Artifacts:
-Monoprice PID 12520 27" WQHD (no longer available, recalled and discontinued within 3 months due to massive defects, mine goes back this week) (AUO AHVA)
TBD (likely by Sunday):
-Samsung S27B550 (Samsung TN)
-BenQ EW2750ZL (AUO AMVA+)
-HP 25XW (LG AH-IPS)
Is the Apple model A1316? I want to make sure, although I see only one Apple Cinema Display 27" model.
Where did you get the info on the Monoprice being AUO? Their spec page calls it "AH-IPS" which should mean some LG panel, but so far all LG IPS panels didn't have the problem.
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Daniel_Chang
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Correct, A1316. I apologize for leaving that out.
It's been discontinued, and I don't know why that spec page/PDF lists that. Here's the archived page for it:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150919220057/http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=12520
And the text states (bold emphasis mine):
EDIT: I suck with photography. My Monoprice looks EXACTLY like the photo in post #2 (and successive photos by others), whereas the ACD displays no issues.
Anyway, that's it for me for now. I'll report back by Sunday with the other monitors. The Sammy is upstairs, the HP comes in tomorrow, and the BenQ arrives Saturday. Figured if I could get a photo, I'd make it a group shot.
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Maybe they used two panel types in the same model. AHVA indeed seems more likely because there were already such panels reported, unlike LG ones. But then munkle said:
That's unexpected. It uses an LG panel that is a close relative of the one in the U3011, which doesn't exhibit the artifacts. Both are also Dell monitors. The plot thickens.
Daniel_Chang, can you try to see with HWINFO32 which specific panel the Monoprice uses? Choosing your display under "Monitor" shows in the details pane "Monitor Name (Manuf)", which at least on laptops tends to show the panel model. But I'm not sure if it works for standalone monitors.
Daniel_Chang
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Here's the output (created a report). More info than you need, but providing just in case:
I'm leaning towards this being AHVA, but due to the mix up by Monoprice, I can understand the desire to be 100% certain.
Daniel_Chang
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And here's the output from Monitor Asset Manager, which does a hardware query rather than just a registry query. Still not much more to go off of:
All I've found so far is that:
MPLE27QPM is the AH-IPS panel used in the "Glass Pro" model that preceded and then superseded my model. Mine, the MPLE27QPM-R2 model, wasn't on the market very long and was pulled due to high defect ratio, causing Monoprice to relist their old Glass Pro model about a month later.
I think the PDF came out early and perhaps someone assumed they'd use the same panel. But for as long as this version was listed, the description went out of the way to state that it's AHVA multiple times, even pointing out that it was manufactured bu AUO. I'm confident this is an AHVA panel, and the PDF was simply and early release misprint.
All I've found so far is that:
MPLE27QPM is the AH-IPS panel used in the "Glass Pro" model that preceded and then superseded my model. Mine, the MPLE27QPM-R2 model, wasn't on the market very long and was pulled due to high defect ratio, causing Monoprice to relist their old Glass Pro model about a month later.
I think the PDF came out early and perhaps someone assumed they'd use the same panel. But for as long as this version was listed, the description went out of the way to state that it's AHVA multiple times, even pointing out that it was manufactured bu AUO. I'm confident this is an AHVA panel, and the PDF was simply and early release misprint.
Thanks for checking. Too bad desktop monitors don't report the panel model. I've sent a question to Monoprice. A long shot, but can't hurt. If there's indeed both MPLE27QPM(-R1) and MPLE27QPM-R2 it will be interesting to see if the LG one also shows the problem. Anyway, AUO is the working assumption.
I'll count that as positive.
Daniel_Chang
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Tested a new monitor, and also wanted to help fill in the blanks for the monitors you listed earlier.
Panel Year - 2014 (based on the two queries I ran)
Panel Year is 2009, and is in fact the LG LM270WQ1. (Source)
While this is the tear down for the newer TB display, here's the part we're looking for:
That link shows the TB display as being LM270WQ1-SDB3, whereas another person's experience seems to state that the actual panel on the ACD I tested is LM270WQ1-SDB1. (Source)
As for the new monitor that I got to test today, it's the HP 25xw. It does NOT show the artifacts. Stats as I can find them (LG has a tear down page, but the photo was too low res to read the panel tag dammit), so this information is speculated but seems to be from multiple sources:
Panel:
Year: 2014?
Type: AH-IPS (25" 1080p, and confirmed 6-bit FRC by HP's product sheet. AH-IPS most likely candidate as that has replaced e-IPS in this segment)
Manufacturer: LG
Model - I'm struggling here. I suspect that the ASUS MX259H uses the same panel, whatever it may be. There's definitely a 27" cousin to this panel, the LG LM270WF7 (2014) which is used in the 27xw. But the closest that I can find in TFT Central's database are LM250WQ1 (25" 1440p) and LM250WW1-SSA1 (25" ultra wide 2560x1080), so no dice. based on the above model number and some searching, it seems that the panel used is LIKELY an LG LM250WFx (last digit unknown).
Panel Year - 2014 (based on the two queries I ran)
Panel Year is 2009, and is in fact the LG LM270WQ1. (Source)
While this is the tear down for the newer TB display, here's the part we're looking for:
That link shows the TB display as being LM270WQ1-SDB3, whereas another person's experience seems to state that the actual panel on the ACD I tested is LM270WQ1-SDB1. (Source)
As for the new monitor that I got to test today, it's the HP 25xw. It does NOT show the artifacts. Stats as I can find them (LG has a tear down page, but the photo was too low res to read the panel tag dammit), so this information is speculated but seems to be from multiple sources:
Panel:
Year: 2014?
Type: AH-IPS (25" 1080p, and confirmed 6-bit FRC by HP's product sheet. AH-IPS most likely candidate as that has replaced e-IPS in this segment)
Manufacturer: LG
Model - I'm struggling here. I suspect that the ASUS MX259H uses the same panel, whatever it may be. There's definitely a 27" cousin to this panel, the LG LM270WF7 (2014) which is used in the 27xw. But the closest that I can find in TFT Central's database are LM250WQ1 (25" 1440p) and LM250WW1-SSA1 (25" ultra wide 2560x1080), so no dice. based on the above model number and some searching, it seems that the panel used is LIKELY an LG LM250WFx (last digit unknown).
I'm trying to list the "first introduced" date of the panel. That Monoprice was manufactured at the end of 2014, and the panel model might very well be new for 2014 because the monitor was introduced in 2015 (I think?), but is there anything else to go by?
I'll mark the Apple 27" as -SDB1, and 2010 since this is what's defined as "mass production" rather than customer sampling. I'm assuming the 2009 references talk about a variant other than SDB1.
Nice find. Interesting that HP provides that disassembly document. Too bad they don't just share the service manuals.
I'll mark the Apple 27" as -SDB1, and 2010 since this is what's defined as "mass production" rather than customer sampling. I'm assuming the 2009 references talk about a variant other than SDB1.
Nice find. Interesting that HP provides that disassembly document.
Too bad they don't just share the service manuals.
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Daniel_Chang
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Here's another one. However, I did something different and I think you're going to love this.
BenQ EW2750ZL
Panel Year - 2014 (source)
Type - AMVA+
Manufacturer - AUO
Model - M270HVN02.3 (source)
So, I wanted to have this and the HP 25xw hooked up side by side for a direct comparison. Problem - they both have 1xVGA and 2xHDMI inputs. My GPU has 1xHDMI, 3xDP, and 1xDVI. So, I use a DVI to VGA adapter and hook up the EW2750ZL, knowing that this isn't a fair comparison.
The BenQ was artifact free! Later on today I remove the HP and make the BenQ the exclusive monitor. I connect it via HDMI. I go to double check before posting, and guess what? Same artifact as many other monitors here.
So, artifact free on VGA, artifacts on HDMI.
BenQ EW2750ZL
Panel Year - 2014 (source)
Type - AMVA+
Manufacturer - AUO
Model - M270HVN02.3 (source)
So, I wanted to have this and the HP 25xw hooked up side by side for a direct comparison. Problem - they both have 1xVGA and 2xHDMI inputs. My GPU has 1xHDMI, 3xDP, and 1xDVI. So, I use a DVI to VGA adapter and hook up the EW2750ZL, knowing that this isn't a fair comparison.
The BenQ was artifact free! Later on today I remove the HP and make the BenQ the exclusive monitor. I connect it via HDMI. I go to double check before posting, and guess what? Same artifact as many other monitors here.
So, artifact free on VGA, artifacts on HDMI.
That's interesting.
I have a theory. VGA, especially at high bandwidth scenarios like 1920x1080@60, cannot send a perfectly clean signal. So the grid becomes blurry or the colors change. I didn't check in detail how it behaves with different colors, especially when there's less contrast, but it's probably a factor.
How pronounced does the discoloration/streaking look with HDMI?
Does a white grid look any different between HDMI and VGA?
BTW, funny inputs on these monitors. 2 HDMI but no DP, VGA instead of DVI.
I have a theory. VGA, especially at high bandwidth scenarios like 1920x1080@60, cannot send a perfectly clean signal. So the grid becomes blurry or the colors change. I didn't check in detail how it behaves with different colors, especially when there's less contrast, but it's probably a factor.
How pronounced does the discoloration/streaking look with HDMI?
Does a white grid look any different between HDMI and VGA?
BTW, funny inputs on these monitors. 2 HDMI but no DP, VGA instead of DVI.
Daniel_Chang
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It's the standard input configuration on many of today's budget monitors. Look at any 1080p monitor available at BB/Newegg, and that's the common configuration it seems. I chose these two as potential upgrades to my Samsung, as the Monoprice didn't work out, but aimed for under $200. I'm hoping to spend between $1,000-$1,500 on a GPU/monitor combo in mid-2017 that features GSYNC/FreeSync, so didn't want to spend a lot today.
It looks the same as my Monoprice, so the photo in post #2 is a prime example. On VGA, there was no artifact of this nature. However, there was a horizontal moving band in Diablo 3 that went away with HDMI.
I'll report back if I can, but I may not get time to test this or the Samsung today. I stupidly did a firmware update on my Nighthawk router, and it's been giving me issues. My first real day off, and instead of gaming I'll be doing network troubleshooting. Seems the 1.0.6.28 FW thread over at Netgear indicates many problems. Lesson learned - look before I leap.
Daniel_Chang
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I may or may not get the time/interest to report back on the VGA cable test, but here's my last monitor.
Samsung S27B550v
Panel Year - Unknown
Type - TN
Manufacturer - Unknown, Samsung? (I don't know if they use TN panels from other manufacturers)
Model - M270HVN02.3 (source)
This monitor does NOT display the artifacts as shown in the photos in post #2. Works fine.
Samsung S27B550v
Panel Year - Unknown
Type - TN
Manufacturer - Unknown, Samsung? (I don't know if they use TN panels from other manufacturers)
Model - M270HVN02.3 (source)
This monitor does NOT display the artifacts as shown in the photos in post #2. Works fine.
jbltecnicspro
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Whatever panel is in my old Dell Precision m4500 does not have any issues displaying the second picture in the OP. It is the 1920x1080 monitor.
Daniel_Chang
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Shae,
I got a DVI-HDMI adapter. Plugged in the EQ2750ZL via HDMI-HDMI, and the HP 25xw via DVI-HDMI. I cloned the displays, opened the image that causes the artifact, and neither did it.
I removed the HP, and I'm running just the 2750ZL now. It's not doing it anymore. I can't get it to reproduce the artifact right now. Weird.
I got a DVI-HDMI adapter. Plugged in the EQ2750ZL via HDMI-HDMI, and the HP 25xw via DVI-HDMI. I cloned the displays, opened the image that causes the artifact, and neither did it.
I removed the HP, and I'm running just the 2750ZL now. It's not doing it anymore. I can't get it to reproduce the artifact right now. Weird.
Daniel: It is weird. Maybe depends on monitor settings? You didn't imagine it, so for now I'll leave the monitor in the "affected" group.
Got a reply from Monoprice. They say the monitor is AH-IPS and not AHVA. But it wasn't a detailed answer. Considering they had both types listed in their official specs, and considering LG panels usually don't have the artifacts while AUO's do, I think the best assumption is still that it's AHVA.
I think laptops frequently use a variety of panels. Can you check with HWINFO32 the panel model? It might be listed in the "Monitor" page as "Monitor Name (Manuf)":
Got a reply from Monoprice. They say the monitor is AH-IPS and not AHVA.
But it wasn't a detailed answer. Considering they had both types listed in their official specs, and considering LG panels usually don't have the artifacts while AUO's do, I think the best assumption is still that it's AHVA.I think laptops frequently use a variety of panels. Can you check with HWINFO32 the panel model? It might be listed in the "Monitor" page as "Monitor Name (Manuf)":