The SP-310 has several shutter speeds but it doesn't have one for 1/72. The closest ones are 1/60 and 1/80 so, it looks like I'll be working with the 1/80. I know there will be a substantial margin of error and it will take a lot of trail and error but, it's worth at least exploring in the interim to see if I can get a closer representation. I have a hunch there is going to be a lot of blur and out of focus issues trying to do it without a rig though. I didn't figure it was normally done during a test or review given how spaced out the "multi edge effect/ghosts" are in pictures taken of PixPerAn but, I wasn't positive. In any case, it's worth at least exploring.
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LCD Televisions with 4:4:4 Subsampling and low Input Lag.
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The SP-310 has several shutter speeds but it doesn't have one for 1/72. The closest ones are 1/60 and 1/80 so, it looks like I'll be working with the 1/80. I know there will be a substantial margin of error and it will take a lot of trail and error but, it's worth at least exploring in the interim to see if I can get a closer representation. I have a hunch there is going to be a lot of blur and out of focus issues trying to do it without a rig though. I didn't figure it was normally done during a test or review given how spaced out the "multi edge effect/ghosts" are in pictures taken of PixPerAn but, I wasn't positive. In any case, it's worth at least exploring.
Well that was easier than expected, and I even did it free hand (like a BAUCE). These aren't perfect and I forgot to bump the exposure up so they came out a little dark and I had to clean them up a little in Sketchbook Pro 6 by adjusting the lightness, then contrast and brightness. These are a little blurry, and a tad out of focus but, they show a realistic grouping of the "multi edge effect/ghosts" rather nicely which was the point. I will get some pictures of the "readability test" in PiXPerAn this afternoon as well as pictures using the "Text" preset mode.
Please keep in mind that the car that's supposed to be in focus as well as the text is much sharper in person. these are only meant to show how many "multi edge effect/ghosts" there are and how tightly they are grouped up.
Dell S2440L overclocked to 72Hz at 0 brightnes, 75 contrast, and using the "Custom Colour" preset mode (99/94/97)
Please keep in mind that the car that's supposed to be in focus as well as the text is much sharper in person. these are only meant to show how many "multi edge effect/ghosts" there are and how tightly they are grouped up.
Dell S2440L overclocked to 72Hz at 0 brightnes, 75 contrast, and using the "Custom Colour" preset mode (99/94/97)
Dell S2440L updates concerning overclocking and to increase motion clarity
If I'm interpreting the pictures right, the Dell S2440L isn't dropping any frames at 1920x1080 @ 72Hz. I also don't think the Dell S2440L is dropping any frames at 1920x1080 @ 74Hz but, that's a moot point as motion in PixPerAn looks better at 72Hz. 92Hz (yes 92 not 90) is absolutely dropping frames. The camera was set to an ISO of 400, shutter of 1/10 with an exposure of +2. The brightness on the Dell S2440L was set at 0.
60Hz:
72Hz:
74Hz:
92Hz:
The pictures of the "readability test" in PixPerAn need to be prefaced by saying you will see a different string of of letters in the picture with the camera moving than you will in the picture with the camera remaining stationary. This is because there is a time limit on this test of 60 seconds and, I didn't think about doing the stationary camera picture first. I used the entire 60 seconds to take as many pictures with the camera moving as possible in an attempt to expedite getting the best picture possible.
Here is a picture of the car in PixPerAn with the Dell S2440L using the "Text" preset mode. I was moving the camera at a pace equal to the speed of a car in order to show an "accurate" representation of how closely the "multi edge effect/ghosts" are. What was interesting about both of these shots is the car just happened to be near the stationary image of the car when the camera snapped the picture. If you compare the moving car to the stationary one, you can see where the dark overshoot is. The camera was set to an ISO of 400, shutter of 1/80 with an exposure of +2. Please keep in mind it's a little fuzzy and out of focus. The brightness on the Dell S2440L was set at 0.
Here is a picture of the "readability test" in PixPerAn with a tempo of 16 with the Dell S2440L using the "Text" preset mode. I was moving the camera at a pace equal to the speed of the text in order to show an "accurate" representation of how closely the "multi edge effect/ghosts" are. The camera was set to an ISO of 400, shutter of 1/80 with an exposure of +2. Please keep in mind it's a little fuzzy and out of focus.
Here is a picture of the "readability test" in PixPerAn with a tempo of 16 with the Dell S2440L using the "Text" preset mode. This was done with the camera stationary in order to showcase the sharpness of the text. The camera was set to an ISO of 400, shutter of 1/80 with an exposure of +2. The brightness on the Dell S2440L was set at 0.
If I'm interpreting the pictures right, the Dell S2440L isn't dropping any frames at 1920x1080 @ 72Hz. I also don't think the Dell S2440L is dropping any frames at 1920x1080 @ 74Hz but, that's a moot point as motion in PixPerAn looks better at 72Hz. 92Hz (yes 92 not 90) is absolutely dropping frames. The camera was set to an ISO of 400, shutter of 1/10 with an exposure of +2. The brightness on the Dell S2440L was set at 0.
60Hz:
72Hz:
74Hz:
92Hz:
The pictures of the "readability test" in PixPerAn need to be prefaced by saying you will see a different string of of letters in the picture with the camera moving than you will in the picture with the camera remaining stationary. This is because there is a time limit on this test of 60 seconds and, I didn't think about doing the stationary camera picture first. I used the entire 60 seconds to take as many pictures with the camera moving as possible in an attempt to expedite getting the best picture possible.
Here is a picture of the car in PixPerAn with the Dell S2440L using the "Text" preset mode. I was moving the camera at a pace equal to the speed of a car in order to show an "accurate" representation of how closely the "multi edge effect/ghosts" are. What was interesting about both of these shots is the car just happened to be near the stationary image of the car when the camera snapped the picture. If you compare the moving car to the stationary one, you can see where the dark overshoot is. The camera was set to an ISO of 400, shutter of 1/80 with an exposure of +2. Please keep in mind it's a little fuzzy and out of focus. The brightness on the Dell S2440L was set at 0.
Here is a picture of the "readability test" in PixPerAn with a tempo of 16 with the Dell S2440L using the "Text" preset mode. I was moving the camera at a pace equal to the speed of the text in order to show an "accurate" representation of how closely the "multi edge effect/ghosts" are. The camera was set to an ISO of 400, shutter of 1/80 with an exposure of +2. Please keep in mind it's a little fuzzy and out of focus.
Here is a picture of the "readability test" in PixPerAn with a tempo of 16 with the Dell S2440L using the "Text" preset mode. This was done with the camera stationary in order to showcase the sharpness of the text. The camera was set to an ISO of 400, shutter of 1/80 with an exposure of +2. The brightness on the Dell S2440L was set at 0.
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EngineChauffer
Limp Gawd
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I have read through many pages of this thread and am a little frazzled.
If someone could help, I am looking at this model (newegg has it marked way down)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889102698
I currently use a approx. 5 yr old Samsung 40" 1080p CCFL backlit LCD (It was their flagship model back in the day) right now. I sit about 3-4 feet away.
I would like to know if it is a good choice for picture quality, text (also important..I'm getting old) and most of all computer gaming. Is the TV native 120hz (meaning I could set the video card) or is it 60 and I would have to use vsync? I don't mind that really, I just want the best performance I can get in gaming. I also have a HD cablebox, and 360 (that never gets used) to hook up to it. Reviews I have seen place the black levels below that of the previous years model, but other than that it seems like a good choice? If it matters, I am also upgrading my gaming rig video card to a GTX680FTW 4GB to hook to this.
Thanks for any and all feedback/links in advance!
If someone could help, I am looking at this model (newegg has it marked way down)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889102698
I currently use a approx. 5 yr old Samsung 40" 1080p CCFL backlit LCD (It was their flagship model back in the day) right now. I sit about 3-4 feet away.
I would like to know if it is a good choice for picture quality, text (also important..I'm getting old) and most of all computer gaming. Is the TV native 120hz (meaning I could set the video card) or is it 60 and I would have to use vsync? I don't mind that really, I just want the best performance I can get in gaming. I also have a HD cablebox, and 360 (that never gets used) to hook up to it. Reviews I have seen place the black levels below that of the previous years model, but other than that it seems like a good choice? If it matters, I am also upgrading my gaming rig video card to a GTX680FTW 4GB to hook to this.
Thanks for any and all feedback/links in advance!
I'm not sure if the panel is native 120Hz or not but if plasma is anything like an LCD, it will use frame interpolation to get to that refresh rate as almost no TV will currently do anything above a 60Hz input signal natively. I saw something recently that mentioned there were a couple of specific makes/models that could do 120Hz natively with a PC but, I do not recall what they were or where I stumbled across it.
Frame interpolation causes an increase in input lag and that's not something you really want. An LCD TV will only be as low 16ms to 32ms (1 to 2 frames) without frame interpolation. To complicate that, not every LCD TV can even get that low and several are substantially higher. I'm not certain about the range of input lag a plasma would typically have.
Since you care about text, you will want an TV that properly supports 4:4:4 otherwise it's going to have fringing. In addition to that, you may need to disable "ClearType" as the pixel pitch of a 32"+ 1080p TV tends to expose the subpixel anti-aliasing that "ClearType" performs.
As far as the Samsung UN40ES6500 goes, it appears to use a LTJ400HV05-V panel but, I couldn't find any data on it. A user over at AVS stated:
but, there was no test data provided to verify that claim and input lag is highly subjective from person to person. Another user at AVS stated:
and that they were likely going to return it. They also mentioned they had issues with flashlighting and clouding
It appears that you can rename the input label to "PC" but, a lot of the settings will be locked out in the TV menu as a result. Renaming the input to PC will also disable the changes in brightness and contrast like switching to game mode will but no one mentioned if it affected input lag. PC modes tend to disable a lot of the processing in the TV so it may bypass everything you need it to.
I didn't see any mention of what the available refresh rates were when hooked to a PC but I didn't scour the owner's thread at AVS. You may want to see if anyone there can give you any more information on it.
I was lurking over at AVS and found a post by FourWude with a link to DisplayLag (an input lag database). The database was created using the:
They are showing the Samsung UN55ES6500 as having 99ms to100ms and the Samsung UN60ES6500 as having 94ms of input lag. The Samsung UN40ES6500 wasn't tested but, I can't imagine it being much better. Even the Samsung UNxxxx6100 line was almost at 40ms of input lag.
EngineChauffer
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Thanks guys I really appreciate it.
This sucks. Samsung has been what I have had my eye on the last 5 years or so because of the quality of their TV panels.
I have no idea what brand to look at in the 800 range for a 40" TV to use as my primary gaming computer screen.
I was hesitant about VIZIO when they first came out, but it seems their mid to high end TVs are nice too.
I guess what I am asking is what should I be looking at with my requirements and budget?
Any suggestions welcomed.
This sucks. Samsung has been what I have had my eye on the last 5 years or so because of the quality of their TV panels.
I have no idea what brand to look at in the 800 range for a 40" TV to use as my primary gaming computer screen.
I was hesitant about VIZIO when they first came out, but it seems their mid to high end TVs are nice too.
I guess what I am asking is what should I be looking at with my requirements and budget?
Any suggestions welcomed.
Mark Rejhon
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Excellent job on capturing the WYSIWYG blur via a manually-tracked camera.
This is pretty close to my experience.
If my Blur Busters Blog had the budget, I would purchase a commercial MPRT pursuit camera. ($10K+)
This would yield scientifically accurate results.
I am brainstorming a homemade blogger-friendly pursuit rig to do it scientifically as cheaply as possible, via a mechanical means:
1. An Arduino connected to a motorized rig (even a discarded inkjet cartridge sprocket belt/rail with camera attached, or even a motor connected to a piece of nylon string attached to a camera)
2. Put the camera in front of an "X" displayed on the screen.
3. Enter the display DPI (e.g. 110 dpi)
4. Enter the display motion (e.g. 960 pixels/sec)
5. Press a button.
-- On-screen moving object starts moving (e.g. PixPerAn car style object)
-- Camera starts moving
6. After camera finishes accelerating to the same speed as moving object onscreen, the shutter is automatically clicked, taking a photo. Software such as Canon CHDK, can allow software-control of taking photos. Shutter lag wouldn't matter, since the camera is tracking the object; it doesn't matter how early or how late the shutter clicks, as long as it's somewhere within a time window (e.g. 1 second)
I need a tracking accuracy of less than +/- 1 pixel at 960 pixels per second. I think it's doable with a simple Arduino setup, especially if both you and I have successfully done manual pursuit camera tests using our human hands (after several passes). I was even able to succeed occasionally in a +/- 1 pixel error margin after 10 tries.
As you are one who have successfully reproduced my manual pursuit camera tests (at least for PWM artifact capture),
do you have any ideas of a cheap blogger-friendly pursuit camera rig?
My interests include capturing all motion blur effects (ghosting, blur trails, coronas, PWM trails, etc).
There is currently a prize pot for someone who can build a working pursuit camera contraption with a measurable error margin (with open source instructions/HOWTO). It generally doesn't matter what camera can be used as long as the camera is lightweight (less momentum issue), its shutter can be hacked, and it has a 1/60sec shutter speed. Remember, it's a "shoestring" (literally) homemade version of an existing $10K pursuit camera rig; with the bonus of blogger-friendly photographed display motion blur matching eye-perceived display motion blur.
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I think the trickiest part with trying to mimic motion tracking by hand is it goes against what most people are "trained" to do which is stay as still as possible when pressing a shutter button while someone that deals with "film" is trained to keep the camera steady and in focus while moving with the camera or using a rig. I didn't have to hard of a time keeping a steady pace with the car (especially after seeing text at a tempo of 23) but it was hell to make the camera focus at times which is why I had to go through several attempts. Again though, photography isn't really my thing and lighting and settings likely played a role in the focusing issue.
As far as making a rig goes, I really don't have any suggestions regardless of the price involved as it's just not something I have ever looked into doing. The trickiest part sounds like it would be syncing the tracking speed. I would think that just mounting a camera to a sliding mechanism that's on a "rail" and hand-powered would make for better consistency prepared to my entirely freehand method but, obviously something motorized and more "controlled" would be better for removing more variables as the tracking speed would be more in sync with "hard data" to back that up rather than something that "looks" close. Again though, I don't really have any ideas on how to go about actually achieving that.
Mark Rejhon
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Appreciated. I'll keep picking other people's brains. I'm willing to pay several hundred dollars for such a contraption with scientifically measurable error margin; I'm pretty darn certain it's possible to do automated/mechanically for less than $1000 with a measurable error margin.
...As for hand-powered tracking, that will not be worth as much but will still be worth something if it's possible to come up with a reliable manner of measuring the error margin (e.g. accurate method of detecting whether my hand tracking motion was accurate or not). I think I may have some rough ideas of how to pull off a semi-scientific method of confirming the error margin of a manual pursuit camera (via reference "tick marks" that lines up with frame steps) That way, several passes can be done, until the "tick marks line up properly" in a photograph. It would be great to trailblaze a "no-cost" pursuit camera method that's compatible with the PixPerAn car (and/or my upcoming Blur Busters motion tests).
I shan't distract this forum thread too much, but wanted to say that your hand-tracked camera is a good demonstration of how a camera can capture the PWM trailing effect that's seen by the human eye.
I've just bought a Sony 32 EX650 and i can confirm it has and supports 4:4:4. You just have to select "graphics" or "game" mode for the hdmi input and that's it ( i currently use a dvi to hdmi cable with a nvidia card). Unfortunately i don't have a good camera to provide proof. I've used the "Belle-Nuit Method" from here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1381724/official-4-4-4-chroma-subsampling-thread and looked at those pixels with a magnifying glass. I could clearly see every pixel and it's just one on each column, as it should be.
The tv is great, i've noticed no input lag and little ghosting, but beware it has a semi glossy surface and the speaker sound is bad, radio-in-bathroom bad, no bass, no nothing. At least it's clear sounding and doesn't hiss at any volume level (my previous tv suffered from this). I know sound from most tvs sucks, but this is below that level.
The tv is great, i've noticed no input lag and little ghosting, but beware it has a semi glossy surface and the speaker sound is bad, radio-in-bathroom bad, no bass, no nothing. At least it's clear sounding and doesn't hiss at any volume level (my previous tv suffered from this). I know sound from most tvs sucks, but this is below that level.
SixFootDuo
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What did you pay? I just did a search for the Sony 32 EX650 and cannot find it listed for sale in the US.
I am looking to replace my LG 42 LD with a LED based Top Brand 4:4:4 compliant set in the 32" - 40" Range.
What model is this set here in the US if it's not being sold? Or any other Top Brand LED sets that are out that support 4:4:4?
I am looking to replace my LG 42 LD with a LED based Top Brand 4:4:4 compliant set in the 32" - 40" Range.
What model is this set here in the US if it's not being sold? Or any other Top Brand LED sets that are out that support 4:4:4?
I think the only 1080p 32" TVs left at retail are going to be the LG 32CS560 and the Samsung UN-32EH5000. The LG 32CS560 is IPS and the Samsung UN-32EH5000.
When I bought the LG 32CS560 at launch, it was a horrible horrible TV that didn't even support 24p video playback properly which is the most basic function of a TV. Damn near everything LG sold in 2012 was advertised as having features like "tru-motion" when they actually didn't have them. Some of the more expensive LG sets that lacked certain features got firmware updates but the "tru motion" they got wasn't actually "tru motion". It was a very poorly implemented black fram interpolation that made judder worse than it already was. This is also what LG is doing for 2013. It's ok you want a cheap 32" IPS panel to use strictly as a monitor but, you may not like the way it handles motion.
The Samsung UN-32EH5000 is hands down better in every way barring the viewing angles since it's an A-MVA panel. If you choose to get one, you need to make sure the product code on the box is TS01 or TS02 since those will be Samsung panels. The other panels available are from CMO and Sharp and they are subpar (especially the Sharp). 360 games looked amazing (for a 60Hz LCD) on the Samsung UN-32EH5000 after changing the input label name to "PC".
Both models should have around 16ms to 32ms of input lag.
You may want to see how things shake out with the 2013 models if you want to have a wider selection.
Tony_Montana
n00b
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are there any passive 3D 55"+ with acceptable input lag?
Mark Rejhon
[H]ard|Gawd
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There are some better motion blur reduction options available already for HDTV's that works great with computers:
1. Use a Sony that has a NON-interpolating "Motionflow Impulse" mode. (e.g. Sony HX950)
This is a special LightBoost-like motionflow mode that does NOT use interpolation. It only uses backlight strobing to improve motion quality (ala CRT-style flicker). Thus, it is more videogame-friendly than other motionflow modes. Alas, there's some input lag, but not as terrible as interpolation. Some people don't like its 60 Hz flicker, but it helps high-speed video game motion (e.g. FPS shooters)
2. HDTV Refresh Rate Overclocking -- Input 120 Hz From a Computer Into HDTV
You need an active 3D TV. There's a method of forcing 1280x720p 120Hz into a HDTV, even though most HDTV's do not support a 120 Hz signal. This is because most 3D TV's supports 720p@60Hz 3D (Add left/right eyes together = 60Hz+60Hz = 120Hz 2D)
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Thanks Racer for the info. I actually bought both of those models last year at the same time from Best Buy with the intention of testing both of them out as monitors to be used mainly for PC gaming and console gaming and returning the one I liked the least.
The Samsung had a nicer overall picture, black levels, etc, plus I liked it's semi-glossy screen. The LG was close as far as picture quality, but not super close. However the LG seemed to handle motion better when gaming, which is a big deal for me. I am not sure which product code was on the box for the Samsung, but I do remember it said it was made in Mexico.
Being that I got the LG for much cheaper at the time (it was on sale), I ended up keeping the LG mainly because I just thought it performed better for gaming, even though the picture quality was not as good as the Samsung.
However after a few weeks the LG formed an incredibly annoying buzzing noise when bright things were displayed on the screen. For example opening a browser window, or you encounter a very bright area in a game. It got way too annoying to handle and I ended up returning the LG as well.
I ended up picking up a 23 inch 120Hz pc gaming monitor that I am using for now. However I still miss the size of a 32 inch.
I have been tempted to give these same Samsung or LG models a try again, but I might just wait until the 2013 models come out.
Does anyone have any info on this bad boy? It looks like a new LG addition for 2013:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/LG+-+32...p?id=1218851196988&skuId=7554051#tab=overview
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/LG+-+32...p?id=1218851196988&skuId=7554051#tab=overview
SixFootDuo
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OH .......... 32LN5300 ......... INTERESTING.
We need to get this set and get it tested. Im still looking for a LED 32" that supports 4:4:4, good input latency from a solid manufacture. This is indeed one of their new 2013 sets.
We need to get this set and get it tested. Im still looking for a LED 32" that supports 4:4:4, good input latency from a solid manufacture. This is indeed one of their new 2013 sets.
SixFootDuo
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Ok, went to Best Buy, they just got the new 2013 LN models in-stock this past week, 32" and 39". I should note that currently, these two sets seem to be on sale. The 32" is $349 and the 39" is $429. There is a 42" model but I did not check the price on it. This set seems to be in stock at Amazon so feel free to save on tax and maybe even get free shipping. The exact model number is LN53. That's on the box. I've seen a slightly different model for the same set as LN5300. I picked up the 39" for $429, or $467 with tax. I had a chance to read the manual online and there was half a page about connecting the TV to a computer so this is very encouraging. It tells you to use HDMI. The manual also stated that the set supports 1 to 1 pixel mapping. Praying the set supports 4:4:4. I'm ready for a much improved contrast experience over my 3 year old LCD.
One thing I am very excited about is the bezel is now much much smaller. I would say 70% smaller than my 42" LD from 2010. It's very thin. Also, the base seems a bit smaller but a bit more bulky. I checked for sway at Best Buy and it wasn't there. Good sign. The sets fit and finish looks fantastic. modern and I cannot wait to get it hooked up.
I won't be able to test the set in-depth like Racer-J but I am hoping he picks up the set, the 32" or 39" and gives it a good work out. I will however be able to confirm that 4:4:4 is supported or not supported. Again, I'm thinking with LG's history, them having to have tech in place for the new consoles and future in general, that 4:4:4 should be baked in.
Here is the product page for this set at Amazon - http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-32LN5300-32-Inch-LED-lit/dp/B00BB0ZTM2
Here is a picture of the box. I may do an un-boxing video but don't count on it.
One thing I am very excited about is the bezel is now much much smaller. I would say 70% smaller than my 42" LD from 2010. It's very thin. Also, the base seems a bit smaller but a bit more bulky. I checked for sway at Best Buy and it wasn't there. Good sign. The sets fit and finish looks fantastic. modern and I cannot wait to get it hooked up.
I won't be able to test the set in-depth like Racer-J but I am hoping he picks up the set, the 32" or 39" and gives it a good work out. I will however be able to confirm that 4:4:4 is supported or not supported. Again, I'm thinking with LG's history, them having to have tech in place for the new consoles and future in general, that 4:4:4 should be baked in.
Here is the product page for this set at Amazon - http://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-32LN5300-32-Inch-LED-lit/dp/B00BB0ZTM2
Here is a picture of the box. I may do an un-boxing video but don't count on it.
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SixFootDuo
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I can say that this set absolutely does have 4:4:4, everything is razor sharp with no bleeding reds with the eyes. I'll grab the test pattern here shortly and double check. Very impressed so far. There are 2 expert modes, 1 and 2. I've not had a chance to calibrate the set but you can go in and from expert turn off edge enhance, noise and a few other things to help with the picture. Latency seems fine. I will report back here shortly perhaps with additional pics.
SixFootDuo
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Amazing picture. Deep blacks, excellent contrast, colors pop, razor sharp picture and movies just look fantastic. Games, amazing. I will post some screen shots tonight or tomorrow of games, the menu's, etc.
I most likely will not be picking it up nor anything else (TV wise) this year. LG damaged their reputation with me last year and, that's a long steep incline to climb back from when it comes to electronics. The major issue though for me is now input lag after having used a Dell S2440L monitor for a few weeks which makes it impossible for me to use anything over 8ms. In addition to that, there is all the motion clarity talk going on with Nvidia and Lightboost2 (on some 1ms response time TN panels only right now). Given that I am still looking for an all in one solution, I'll be holding off for a while (indefinitely lol) until an A-MVA or IPS display with sub 8ms input lag with CRT/lightboost2 motion clarity comes to the market. Unfortunately, my ever growing list of impossible demands keeps growing . . .
I will be keeping tabs on everything though and will continue posting. Hopefully the LG (or another set) works out for you and others.
SixFootDuo
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You and I both bought that SC model last year. I remember your reviews. I remember my time with the set. And, I returned it. I will say, this new set has made amends with me and I can look past last years model. This set as far as I'm concerned is the new Westy 37". Anyone out there would be proud to own this set. It's that good. Review below.
Original review on AVS Forums - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1466061/2013-lg-ln5300-led-hdtv-review
Just a brief review of the new 2013 LG LN5300 LED HDTV.
The set comes in a 32", 39" and a 42". There might be larger models. I'm unsure.
I'm reviewing the 39" Model ( 38.5 Diagonal ) 20lbs or so with stand attached. The LG 39LN5300.
I currently own the LD, LK and SC models going back each calender year starting in 2010. So I do have somewhat of a PC oriented history with this line of sets.
My primary use is for a PC display. Of course 4:4:4 chroma sub-sampling was important. And this set does have 4:4:4.
The screen is semi-gloss and looks great. The LD and LK had somewhat matte finishes. The SC had a semi-gloss but I think the new LN has a bit more of a gloss over that model. Not over the top as in straight glass.
The stand is a bit smaller and gone is that square look from past models. It is however a bit more bulky / reinforced with a raised lip going around the outside of the stand. Checking for excess wobble and sway, none is present. Very robust and firm. The base is glossy. As far as the bezel goes, they've improved this greatly. The bezel is now at least 50 - 60% smaller than past models. Not Samsung razor thin but still very thin and much welcomed. The over-all fit and finish is excellent and it does take on a new modern look that's fitting of 2013. The overall size of the set is also much smaller than past models. While the back is not razor thin like some of the Samsung's, it's a huge improvment over past models. I would guess 20% smaller over my much larger and heavier 42" LD model from 2010.
unfortunately I cannot speak in-depth to the sets panel or performance other than to state the obvious. We need other experts who are better qualified to pass that information on to us. Over-all, I am very pleased. In fact, this is my favorite new set and it has met all my expectations for 2013. The blacks are deep, the colors bright, the sharpness is there and HD 1080p content looks great. I've checked for jitter / judder and none is present. Very please about that. I've done some basic testing with consoles and there is no noticeable latency. Everything played smoothly and reacted as you would expect. So no lag
Back are expert settings. Here is a list of those settings that may or may not be complete. Dynamic Contrast, Color Gamut, Edge Enhancer on/off, Color Filter on/off, Gamma, Color Temperature, Method settings, Pattern settings, Red Blue Green Settings, Color Management System with saturation, tint and luminance, etc. And of course, Back-light, Contrast, Brightness, Color, Tint, H Sharpness, V Sharpness, etc. There probably is a few other settings present that I missed.
After several hours with set, a few movies, tons of games, I cannot find or see any red-flags, this set is a keeper and I am sure others will be very impressed with this new LG LN model for 2013. This is the new Westy 37" as far as I'm concerned for those of you who knows what that means.
PC monitor, A+
HDTV, A+
Tom
Original review on AVS Forums - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1466061/2013-lg-ln5300-led-hdtv-review
Just a brief review of the new 2013 LG LN5300 LED HDTV.
The set comes in a 32", 39" and a 42". There might be larger models. I'm unsure.
I'm reviewing the 39" Model ( 38.5 Diagonal ) 20lbs or so with stand attached. The LG 39LN5300.
I currently own the LD, LK and SC models going back each calender year starting in 2010. So I do have somewhat of a PC oriented history with this line of sets.
My primary use is for a PC display. Of course 4:4:4 chroma sub-sampling was important. And this set does have 4:4:4.
The screen is semi-gloss and looks great. The LD and LK had somewhat matte finishes. The SC had a semi-gloss but I think the new LN has a bit more of a gloss over that model. Not over the top as in straight glass.
The stand is a bit smaller and gone is that square look from past models. It is however a bit more bulky / reinforced with a raised lip going around the outside of the stand. Checking for excess wobble and sway, none is present. Very robust and firm. The base is glossy. As far as the bezel goes, they've improved this greatly. The bezel is now at least 50 - 60% smaller than past models. Not Samsung razor thin but still very thin and much welcomed. The over-all fit and finish is excellent and it does take on a new modern look that's fitting of 2013. The overall size of the set is also much smaller than past models. While the back is not razor thin like some of the Samsung's, it's a huge improvment over past models. I would guess 20% smaller over my much larger and heavier 42" LD model from 2010.
unfortunately I cannot speak in-depth to the sets panel or performance other than to state the obvious. We need other experts who are better qualified to pass that information on to us. Over-all, I am very pleased. In fact, this is my favorite new set and it has met all my expectations for 2013. The blacks are deep, the colors bright, the sharpness is there and HD 1080p content looks great. I've checked for jitter / judder and none is present. Very please about that. I've done some basic testing with consoles and there is no noticeable latency. Everything played smoothly and reacted as you would expect. So no lag
Back are expert settings. Here is a list of those settings that may or may not be complete. Dynamic Contrast, Color Gamut, Edge Enhancer on/off, Color Filter on/off, Gamma, Color Temperature, Method settings, Pattern settings, Red Blue Green Settings, Color Management System with saturation, tint and luminance, etc. And of course, Back-light, Contrast, Brightness, Color, Tint, H Sharpness, V Sharpness, etc. There probably is a few other settings present that I missed.
After several hours with set, a few movies, tons of games, I cannot find or see any red-flags, this set is a keeper and I am sure others will be very impressed with this new LG LN model for 2013. This is the new Westy 37" as far as I'm concerned for those of you who knows what that means.
PC monitor, A+
HDTV, A+
Tom
Awesome, thanks for posting this review and also picking it up yourself. I am tempted to get one now. Have you done much as far as input lag tests and blurriness for gaming?
I am currently using a 23 inch 120Hz gaming monitor, but would totally give up the 120Hz for a large 39 inch set.
Awesome, thanks for posting this review and also picking it up yourself. I am tempted to get one now. Have you done much as far as input lag tests and blurriness for gaming?
I am currently using a 23 inch 120Hz gaming monitor, but would totally give up the 120Hz for a large 39 inch set.
Agreed, I'm now looking into the LG TV as well. I'm still using my old Westinghouse 37". It's been pretty damn solid for years now, but it's starting to get a little 'blotchy'. I'd like to replace it before it completely goes on me.
So we were having this discussion on AVSForum about the panel lottery for the LN5300 line of TV's. Seems like not all of them are IPS panels. In particular, I went to Best Buy today and I I checked out the demo 32" LN5300. Quoting SixFootDuo:
I can confirm the viewing angles are nothing like an IPS (I use an S-IPS monitor) and also the circle and trail effect you get when putting pressure on the screen. Which means these are most likely VA panels, not IPS. We are pretty sure the panel corresponds to the code on the label of the box. The UB.XXXXXX code. We believe that it is the fourth letter after "UB." that determines the panel. In this particular the case the demo unit's code was UB.AUSYLJM. I also checked all the boxed 32" LN5300's Best Buy had, they're all using this same code.
Best Buy also had several boxed up 39" LN5300's, all with the code UB.AUSJLJM. Since there was no demo unit out, I couldn't tell the type of panel. However SixFootDuo has said on AVSForum that his TV has the same code, so this might be a VA panel as well.
So, to reiterate. I can almost confirm that the LN5300's with the fourth letter being "Y" in the "UB.XXXXXX" code are VA panels, NOT IPS ones. The ones with the 4th letter "J" may also be VA panels.
Seems like LG switches up their panel lottery every year so we can only determine which is what by trial and error. I am posting this to let people know of this, and to also ask if you do get this monitor, if you can specify where you got it from, the "UB." code on the label, and if you can tell what panel your TV is using.
This is not meant to discourage anyone. We've only reviewed the LN5300's which (most likely) use the VA panel and so far this LG as well as the Samsung UNXXEH5000 (North America) and Samsung UEXXEH5000 and their Smart TV variants are honestly the best on the market for an IPS or IPS like display, low input lag for games, 4:4:4 support, and for use as a PC monitor.
You can check out the thread on AVSForum here.
I can confirm the viewing angles are nothing like an IPS (I use an S-IPS monitor) and also the circle and trail effect you get when putting pressure on the screen. Which means these are most likely VA panels, not IPS. We are pretty sure the panel corresponds to the code on the label of the box. The UB.XXXXXX code. We believe that it is the fourth letter after "UB." that determines the panel. In this particular the case the demo unit's code was UB.AUSYLJM. I also checked all the boxed 32" LN5300's Best Buy had, they're all using this same code.
Best Buy also had several boxed up 39" LN5300's, all with the code UB.AUSJLJM. Since there was no demo unit out, I couldn't tell the type of panel. However SixFootDuo has said on AVSForum that his TV has the same code, so this might be a VA panel as well.
So, to reiterate. I can almost confirm that the LN5300's with the fourth letter being "Y" in the "UB.XXXXXX" code are VA panels, NOT IPS ones. The ones with the 4th letter "J" may also be VA panels.
Seems like LG switches up their panel lottery every year so we can only determine which is what by trial and error. I am posting this to let people know of this, and to also ask if you do get this monitor, if you can specify where you got it from, the "UB." code on the label, and if you can tell what panel your TV is using.
This is not meant to discourage anyone. We've only reviewed the LN5300's which (most likely) use the VA panel and so far this LG as well as the Samsung UNXXEH5000 (North America) and Samsung UEXXEH5000 and their Smart TV variants are honestly the best on the market for an IPS or IPS like display, low input lag for games, 4:4:4 support, and for use as a PC monitor.
You can check out the thread on AVSForum here.
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My LN395300 has J as the 4th letter. I did your test of putting light pressure on the screen and indeed I got that circle with some pattern in the circle. I did the same test on my IPS pc monitor and that behavior does not happen. Guess I have a VA panel. I bought it from BB.
I don't know where we got this assumption, but I'm pretty sure these TV's are supposed to have IPS panels. But it seems no one with this TV has got one with an IPS panel... Did we assume wrong or is LG trolling us?
I suspect a panel lottery like the 2007FP is going on.
What's disconcerting is not a single person that has reviewed this TV seems to have an IPS panel. I think most people got it at Best Buy because it's on sale, and all Best Buy seems to have in stock are the VA panel ones. I will try another Best Buy and even Microcenter today, and report back. I'll look specifically for a LN5300 that doesn't have the fourth letter in that code being "Y" or "J" and if I do find one, I'll take it home and let you know what I got.
I think people assumed wrong and, said assumption was likely based off the fact that the 2012 xxCS560 line were all IPS.
Bummer, I really want an IPS panel, something similar looking to my 27" 1440p Korean IPS. I want a bigger screen and this is going to be used for my PS3 so I can't go with another one of those monitors. Do the Samsung UNXXEH5000 TV's have VA panels as well? Maybe the LN5700 and EH5300 (smart TV versions of these two TV's) have a different panel? I doubt it though.
The LG and Samsung still might be my best bet though. Although the colors won't look as good as an IPS, they're still leaps and bounds better looking over TN. This also has low input lag, fantastic blacks, and 4:4:4 support. And it also makes a great monitor.
Can anyone else think of something better or is this the best I'm going to find at 32"? I'll keep an eye out for a different code.
I went to Microcenter today, they actually had the smart TV version of the LN5300, the LN5700, which I haven't seen in stores. Unfortunately, they both had "Y" as the fourth letter in the code, so they're not IPS either. I really don't know, I've tried 3 different stores to no avail and LG tech support has no clue what I'm talking about, so I'm starting to lose hope. I really wanted a TV like this LG with an IPS panel I may have to just accept the fact that there probably aren't any IPS TV's with low input lag, 4:4:4 support and look good as a PC monitor. I already have a feeling that this TV and the Samsung EH5000 TV are probably our best bets.
So, I'll be picking one up tomorrow and I'll post a write-up when I have made my conclusion. I am not going into this purchase looking to be disappointed, I'm actually quite excited to see how a VA panel compares to my IPS. I am only disappointed that it looks like these TV's having IPS panels were a pipe-dream.
I may have to just accept the fact that there probably aren't any IPS TV's with low input lag, 4:4:4 support and look good as a PC monitor. I already have a feeling that this TV and the Samsung EH5000 TV are probably our best bets.So, I'll be picking one up tomorrow and I'll post a write-up when I have made my conclusion. I am not going into this purchase looking to be disappointed, I'm actually quite excited to see how a VA panel compares to my IPS. I am only disappointed that it looks like these TV's having IPS panels were a pipe-dream.
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SixFootDuo
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2004
- Messages
- 5,825
I've purchased 3 of the LG 39LN5300 and love them to death. Absolutely hands down the best monitor I've ever owned. The thin bezel, the small foot print and the all around performance makes this monitor a no brainer. It's the new Westy 37"..... no questions.
It's just slightly larger than a traditional 30" pc monitor.
I have about $1,300+ dollars into my new eyefinity setup and if people could see this setup in person it would make them go wow.
It's just slightly larger than a traditional 30" pc monitor.
I have about $1,300+ dollars into my new eyefinity setup and if people could see this setup in person it would make them go wow.
4BwlNvvHufcy
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2003
- Messages
- 149
I guess I can chime in and note that I did pick up the LG 32LN5300. My reasons for purchase was actually unrelated to computer usage, but I won't need it for that until September. It seems to be an okay display for PC use, and seemed to do fine in gaming. I calibrated it with this combo, and it seems to match up quite well with the color checker. I can post my settings and display profile later if people are interested.
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