guys wanna see the PPU in action? (you will be impressed)

And I thought that the Source engine had kickass physics. Imagine Source with an add-in card....w00t
 
for all of you guys doubting this and thinking you dont need a PPU to do this, think about it this way

we had games with 3D Graphics before we had "3D Accelerators", now commonly known as Video Cards, but it was butt ugly and slow, then came dedicated hardware and the entire PC gaming scene took off, yes, all of this can be done in software or offloaded to a non-specialized piece of hardware, but it will not run anywhere even close to the way this runs

we see large framerate drops in CS:S for instance just when smoke fills the area, or the bomb blows and just a few items are scattered, no matter what system you currently have, the drop is there, it's just more tolerable the better your system is, this is because of the massive sudden computational load placed on the CPU to calculate the physics involved (which are extremely basic even now), but with the PPU and properly coded games, we should be able to have thousands of simultaneous objects that react to their surroundings in real time, with all/most of the complex laws of physics affecting them scatter all at once and not see any significant drops in framerates, etc.......

not to mention the possible future of it all, imagine a grassy field on a wide open space in BF2 or Far Cry, except each blade of grass is being affected by "real" wind and objects in real-time.......when you lay prone and get up the grass is stamped down...and as the breeze blows it gradually stands up again.......following footsteps, real footsteps made by another player in the grass or dirt/sand.......but if you aren't quick enough the real wind effects will blow away or conceal those tracks.......

the difference the modern GPU has made for gaming graphics is the same way the PPU is going to influence gaming physics, no software code, existing CPU, or GPU can do what this thing can do, it's a dedicated Physics Processing Unit


i think some people just have no idea how far this can go
 
So the PPU is the thing calculating where everything goes and what it hits etc. But the graphics card still has to print it to the screen correct?


If so I am not so sure I would want 2000 items flying all over the place.
 
Reagent said:
So the PPU is the thing calculating where everything goes and what it hits etc. But the graphics card still has to print it to the screen correct?


If so I am not so sure I would want 2000 items flying all over the place.
Click to expand...

hahaha it's so funny how everybody want's realism but as we get closer people start to say they actually don't want it

2000 items may not be alot if you consider splinters from wood, shell casings, etc..etc.....

not like the game developers are going to HAVE to put 2000 interactive objects in an area
 
nobody_here said:
hahaha it's so funny how everybody want's realism but as we get closer people start to say they actually don't want it

2000 items may not be alot if you consider splinters from wood, shell casings, etc..etc.....

not like the game developers are going to HAVE to put 2000 interactive objects in an area
Click to expand...


Yeah, or if your person is walking thru a bunch of tree's and the wind is blowing, you'll see the branches and leaves swaying properly in the wind. That is what I'm excited about. I've seen lots of buildings that were rendered lifelike, but I've never seen plants that were rendered lifelike.
 
nobody_here said:
hahaha it's so funny how everybody want's realism but as we get closer people start to say they actually don't want it

2000 items may not be alot if you consider splinters from wood, shell casings, etc..etc.....

not like the game developers are going to HAVE to put 2000 interactive objects in an area
Click to expand...

I think what he means is this: if there is an explosion, and x amount of things go flying about the screen, your vid card is still going to have to render all of that. sooooo, in order to properly enjoy some of this stuff, i think people are going to need quite a bit of gfx horsepower.
 
wow... the videos look pretty kick ass.. I want a PPU. oh yeah, and games which support it. :)
 
quadnad said:
I think what he means is this: if there is an explosion, and x amount of things go flying about the screen, your vid card is still going to have to render all of that. sooooo, in order to properly enjoy some of this stuff, i think people are going to need quite a bit of gfx horsepower.
Click to expand...

yeah, very true, but lets face it, anybody who even knows enough about this stuff to know they want to spend $250 or so on a PPU is going to have a decent system already
 
or will be overhauling their system or building a whole new pc right about the time that this stuff hits the streets and becomes viable. I would expect mid range products *cpu/gpu* to be able to handle these things well enough.
 
Am I the only one who doesn't think that it isn't worth $200-$300? Crap I care more about my sound than I do my physics and I pay only $120 for a kickass sound card. :eek:
 
sign me up (atleast when they make them PCIe, my 7800GTX 512 is choked off as it is)
then we are going to have PPU waterblocks and OCing utilities lol
 
Wow, the physics look amazing. Cant wait for this thing to come out!!
 
Leon2ky said:
Am I the only one who doesn't think that it isn't worth $200-$300? Crap I care more about my sound than I do my physics and I pay only $120 for a kickass sound card. :eek:
Click to expand...

No, I don't think you are the only person that thinks that it's not worth that. I don't know if it is myself, but It might be in some cases.

I figure I can get this for ~200 in a few months, and then that'll give me a little more money for a gfx card,

lets say 600, instead of 2 $300 gfx cards, I can get a ppu and a little more high end video card. then later on down the road, I can pick up another of those gfx cards at a lower pricepoint. who knows, though. things are bound to change a lot.
 
I wonder how many people in here are rich?

I know I'm not. I'll wait until nvidia gets it itegrated onto the card first.
 
duby229 said:
I wonder how many people in here are rich?

I know I'm not. I'll wait until nvidia gets it itegrated onto the card first.
Click to expand...

the ability to buy a $250 pc part wouldnt make anyone "rich" :D
 
So we want to pay a mongo amount of money to put another card in our system that may cause annoying compatibility problems on top of the ones we already encounter with the video cards we already have? :D

No, seriously though. It looks pretty interesting. But like that other poster, it does remind me a lot of the gravity gun in the Source engine. I guess there were just more things to move in this demo.
 
and next an ai card or a speech card.

i want a card that does more than physics.
 
Adding in a PPU allows for better AI calculations/control by the CPU. If you think of it that way, spending 250 every year or two for a new phsyics card is suddenly much more worth it, at least to me.. Imagine running through a field of grass, seeing your opponants in a glade of trees, dropping to prone position, disappearing into the grass, flipping on a thermal scope on a high-powered sniper rifle, and taking out an enemy, THROUGH a tree.. as the casing ejects, hitting the dirt beside you, and after the bullet has carved a path through each indivdual blade of grass.. Thats what Im talking about.. :)

Or hell.. being unable to hide behind a steel wall to escape a tank shell.. it would just blow the building down.. much more fun...
 
Narisatu said:
Adding in a PPU allows for better AI calculations/control by the CPU. If you think of it that way, spending 250 every year or two for a new phsyics card is suddenly much more worth it, at least to me.. Imagine running through a field of grass, seeing your opponants in a glade of trees, dropping to prone position, disappearing into the grass, flipping on a thermal scope on a high-powered sniper rifle, and taking out an enemy, THROUGH a tree.. as the casing ejects, hitting the dirt beside you, and after the bullet has carved a path through each indivdual blade of grass.. Thats what Im talking about.. :)

Or hell.. being unable to hide behind a steel wall to escape a tank shell.. it would just blow the building down.. much more fun...
Click to expand...

If you see that in real life, lemme know and I'll proceed to unplug you from the matrix.
 
unhappy_mage said:
Since when are Jedi powers realistic? I mean, sign me up! but I haven't seen courses in that yet... What can a Jedi move? How fast can he move it? How far away can he move it from?

Click to expand...


I think he was referring to the actual physics, not the actual force power. Take Jedi Knight and use those force powers. Now add in realistic physics. Things will move a lot more differently.

Cell Factor isn't real. Quake 3 isn't real. But the way things interact in the game can be controlled by physics, which can be done to the human understanding of physics.

If you see that in real life, lemme know and I'll proceed to unplug you from the matrix.
Click to expand...

Someone doesn't have an imagination. ;)

With the whole additional graphics needed to move the objects around, etc... True, that's one reason I don't see NVIDIA's PPU/GPU going too far without some core changes. On the other hand, it's not only for extra objects. It's how those object move and behave in this new physics world.

Half Life 2 was hailed for it's awesome physics (although it had mistakes). The PPU takes this to the next level, and then some. It makes the world that much more interactive and real. It all depends on the developer, though. Do they want to make more dynamic objects (papers on desk require new textures, models, etc. rather than include it on the desk texture; papers would move with the wind, etc). This would require additional GPU power, but as we are progressing, we are getting that power.

I say just wait until we get some games that really show it off, then make your decision. Right now, for the most part, people are just coming up with blind conclusions. Without a good application to acutally showcase the technology, hands on, we are just guessing at what this thing can do.
 
nobody_here said:
for all of you guys doubting this and thinking you dont need a PPU to do this, think about it this way

we had games with 3D Graphics before we had "3D Accelerators", now commonly known as Video Cards, but it was butt ugly and slow, then came dedicated hardware and the entire PC gaming scene took off, yes, all of this can be done in software or offloaded to a non-specialized piece of hardware, but it will not run anywhere even close to the way this runs

we see large framerate drops in CS:S for instance just when smoke fills the area, or the bomb blows and just a few items are scattered, no matter what system you currently have, the drop is there, it's just more tolerable the better your system is, this is because of the massive sudden computational load placed on the CPU to calculate the physics involved (which are extremely basic even now), but with the PPU and properly coded games, we should be able to have thousands of simultaneous objects that react to their surroundings in real time, with all/most of the complex laws of physics affecting them scatter all at once and not see any significant drops in framerates, etc.......

not to mention the possible future of it all, imagine a grassy field on a wide open space in BF2 or Far Cry, except each blade of grass is being affected by "real" wind and objects in real-time.......when you lay prone and get up the grass is stamped down...and as the breeze blows it gradually stands up again.......following footsteps, real footsteps made by another player in the grass or dirt/sand.......but if you aren't quick enough the real wind effects will blow away or conceal those tracks.......

the difference the modern GPU has made for gaming graphics is the same way the PPU is going to influence gaming physics, no software code, existing CPU, or GPU can do what this thing can do, it's a dedicated Physics Processing Unit


i think some people just have no idea how far this can go
Click to expand...
exactly

I cant wait for those days of gaming.
 
i think many are forgetting that the PPU also has its own dedicated memory...




...


doesn't it?

in which case its a whole 'nuther subsystem, so for everyone thinking about just utilizing a second CPU core for the physics work, there is a lot more to one of these cards than just another CPU... its got RAM (with probably a crapload better bandwidth and latency then your system RAM, but if nothing else, certainly less congested interconnect) and also a super fast link to that RAM...

also with the idea of integrating onto video cards, i don't see that happening, gotta fit 2 CPUs and 2 sets of RAM and 2 interconnects then, but the most likely reason it'd never happen is because the last thing the video card manf. wants is something else to suck up the bandwidth of its expansion slot...

i'd be a lot more inclined to think it would be builtin to the motherboard before the video card... and since these things are just for enthusiasts/gamers theres no way that would happen... if a big OS started making use of it (read: vista) for who know what reason, maybe... but it won't
 
kemist1117 said:
Ageia's estimated cycle is IIRC 2-4 years depending; they want a relatively stable development platform (think Creative with audigys). If ati and nvidia get seriously involved though who knows what will happen.
Click to expand...

i hope i dont have to wait 2-4 years for a pci-e x1 ppu!
 
"Thanks for your feedback regarding the PCI slot compatibility.
The first OEM and retail boards will be exclusively PCI.
We will have PCIe boards which will be compatible with the PCIe slots on the A8N32 , we are currently not disclosing the full details of these problems or timeline – but it will be before the end of the year."

This was the response I received from AGEIA Technologies.
 
*yawn*

It looks like HL2 grav gun with a few dozen more things being effected at once. We could probably get something close to that with dual-core processors. Wake me when someone comes up with something NEW.

The boxes are desctructable. YAY. The models can be thrown about. YAY. You still can't blow up arbitrary parts of the map.
 
I think it's been mentioned numerous times, destructible environments don't gain much from physics acceleration. That is limited more by memory (host has to keep track of environment changes), and you have to make sure game play isn't adversely effected. If you want to see what its like, go play Red Faction.
 
defaultluser said:
It looks like HL2 grav gun with a few dozen more things being effected at once. We could probably get something close to that with dual-core processors. Wake me when someone comes up with something NEW.
Click to expand...


Few dozen more? :rolleyes:
You show me another game that can do what cellfactors does?
I dare you :cool:

The boxes are desctructable. YAY.
Click to expand...

And I like it.
The models can be thrown about. YAY.
Click to expand...

So you didn't like that in HL2 either? :rolleyes:

You still can't blow up arbitrary parts of the map.
Click to expand...

Show me a game that does that?
But that will be the future...

Terra - I bet you where one of those that said..oO(GPU...why would I ever need one?...)
 
the new cellfactor video looks good, and I think thats just scratching the surface. We didn't go from the quake 3dfx patch to far cry in a week.
 
Its new in the fact that it isnt scripted. All physics in any game right now are scripted and act in a certain way...

The PPU expands on this by adding waaay more objects and having them calculated on the fly.

And GRAW supports the PPU, just adds eye candy but I think it looks awesome/more realistic.
 
Rhitick said:
Its new in the fact that it isnt scripted. All physics in any game right now are scripted and act in a certain way
Click to expand...
Actually, that's not exactly the case. Their have been a few games that have added more calculated physics, but only primarily for stuff like rag dolls (UT2003 and UT2004 primarily, Doom 3 and Quake 4 has it, but not that noticeable). Also Doom 3 had the basic interaction stuff with a few pieces (such as the boxes), but nothing too drastic.
PhysX is making it actually usable on a large scale. You could have a platform on 4 posts, knock a post out, and have your player slide on their side as it topples over. Having vehicles react to different surfaces by driving differently, denting buildings due too excessive force, and even having the suspension react when you hit a speed bump (the guy you just ran over).

Imagine you pulling off a rocket jump, and having wind blow you off course.
 
Xipher said:
Actually, that's not exactly the case. Their have been a few games that have added more calculated physics, but only primarily for stuff like rag dolls (UT2003 and UT2004 primarily, Doom 3 and Quake 4 has it, but not that noticeable). Also Doom 3 had the basic interaction stuff with a few pieces (such as the boxes), but nothing too drastic.
PhysX is making it actually usable on a large scale. You could have a platform on 4 posts, knock a post out, and have your player slide on their side as it topples over. Having vehicles react to different surfaces by driving differently, denting buildings due too excessive force, and even having the suspension react when you hit a speed bump (the guy you just ran over).

Imagine you pulling off a rocket jump, and having wind blow you off course.
Click to expand...

I think a physics calculated "rocket jump" would kill you..or leave you in a very bad state ;) *L*
I hoppe some will making bullets bounce of walls like IRL...
Meaning you could hit someone hiding...or aim before target and still hit as the bullets gets deflected of the ground...IRL army way :D

Terra - I miss that in games, compared to IRL...
 
Terra said:
Terra - I bet you where one of those that said..oO(GPU...why would I ever need one?...)
Click to expand...
Yea, and sound cards; those will never catch on....
 
The Cell Factor demo was alright, but for me, I feel like there's a lot of hype. Hey, it's new technology, so CF is probably a start, but for right now, color me unimpressed with PhysX.
 
I'd want to see a game where your trying to escape a city as it is destroyed around you by...something interesting :p . I think that could showcase the physics engine better than throwing alot of barrels around. Imagine being IN a building as it collapses around you, and stuff is flying around, and etc...
 
I gotta agree that I don't find watching barrels flying around all that exciting ...even if it is like thousands of em. Every physics demo I've seen just had stuff flying around. (i'm probably just missing the better physics presentions I'm sure :( )

What I want to see is when the games start coming out with buildings actually collapsing as their individual building materials come appart...now that will be something. Or I saw an article where the author mentioned that if you could have each blade of grass or falling snowflakes as real physical structures then with the weight of someone walking on it, you could have FPS's where you could actually track each other based on changes to the snow/grass/foliage. THAT would be awesome!

Here's my question though...I don't know much about PPU's and physics but if lets say your gonna have every building, blade of grass, tree, leaf, snowflake etc. all as physical interactive objects then you're going to have to change the way an entire gameworld is programmed. Wouldn't there be like hundreds of thousands of physical objects in an area rather than just 10's of thousands like they say these PPU's are gonna push?

If any of you are programmers perhaps you can enlighten me since I really know nothing about this stuff. :)
 
silentsammy said:
Here's my question though...I don't know much about PPU's and physics but if lets say your gonna have every building, blade of grass, tree, leaf, snowflake etc. all as physical interactive objects then you're going to have to change the way an entire gameworld is programmed. Wouldn't there be like hundreds of thousands of physical objects in an area rather than just 10's of thousands like they say these PPU's are gonna push?

If any of you are programmers perhaps you can enlighten me since I really know nothing about this stuff. :)
Click to expand...

You would only need to apply physics to objects that change state/get influenced some how
A house that is standing still and not getting hammred by rocket wouldn't require any physics calculations.
It's just standing there...doing nothing..."nothing" beeing the keyword here ;)

Terra...
 
Despotes said:
"Thanks for your feedback regarding the PCI slot compatibility.
The first OEM and retail boards will be exclusively PCI.
We will have PCIe boards which will be compatible with the PCIe slots on the A8N32 , we are currently not disclosing the full details of these problems or timeline – but it will be before the end of the year."

This was the response I received from AGEIA Technologies.
Click to expand...

dont tell me ageia is skipping pci-e x1 and going straight to pci-e x4/x16! or the pci-e x1 ppu,s to be released this year will only run on that particular mobo...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top