Dose No One Make a Consistently Excellent Display Anymore?

[Paragon54]

This is probably the best forum on the net for display information and I frequent it quite often especially when I'm shopping as I am now for a new 27" display. I have been quite frustrated when doing my latest research on what the market currently has to bare. It seems that every display out there currently is the luck of the draw. Even those companies that you use to pay a premium for a reasonable guarantee of a quality product (i.e.; NEC, Eizo, and etc.) have lowered their QC and warranties to a point where there is no real advantage to paying said premium anymore.

I don't mind paying for quality, but I don't want to go through the hassle of as many as 3-4 RMAs to get it. Is there no company that is currently manufacturing a consistently excellent display where you have a reasonable expectation of getting what you paid for the first time?

 

[MJZ]

Apple?

 

[Bluesun311]

This is probably the best forum on the net for display information and I frequent it quite often especially when I'm shopping as I am now for a new 27" display. I have been quite frustrated when doing my latest research on what the market currently has to bare. It seems that every display out there currently is the luck of the draw. Even those companies that you use to pay a premium for a reasonable guarantee of a quality product (i.e.; NEC, Eizo, and etc.) have lowered their QC and warranties to a point where there is no real advantage to paying said premium anymore.

I don't mind paying for quality, but I don't want to go through the hassle of as many as 3-4 RMAs to get it. Is there no company that is currently manufacturing a consistently excellent display where you have a reasonable expectation of getting what you paid for the first time?

They've come up with a whole new tier for that kind of expectation: the $1,700 Eizo CX270 is a pretty likely one-shot buying experience.

The NEC MultiSync 27" 1440p monitors will most likely show up flawless, too: for $1,500.

Particularly in the VA sector (where the blacks are deepest) it seems like the panels are just kinda iffy. Period.

 

[Poordevil]

I think a lot of the QC issues have to do with LCD display being something of a imperfect technology. They replaced CRT display that had 50 years of development behind it. How long have LCDs been on the mass market, 12 years or so?

I have just recently picked up my first LCD monitor, a 27 inch BenQ, and it is problem free as far as everything working as advertised. I didn't have to RMA to get what I expected. Maybe I was lucky.

 

[PornoSatan]

I have just recently picked up my first LCD monitor, a 27 inch BenQ, and it is problem free as far as everything working as advertised. I didn't have to RMA to get what I expected. Maybe I was lucky.

Please tell me you went from a 15" CRT to a 27" LCD.

 

[Poordevil]

Please tell me you went from a 15" CRT to a 27" LCD.

Ha! Naw I "upgraded" from a couple of CRTs I had around. One was the FW900 which is a 24 inch 16:10 and does 2304 X 1440. The other I had was a Viewsonic P225f 21 inch 4:3 that did 2048 X 1536.

I hated to give them up, but both quit on me. So instead of mourning my loss I just figured it was time to switch over to the dark side. This TN Benq XL2720T is not a bad substitute. I PC game so motion blur and input lag are no nos for me. The larger real estate is pretty nice and the colors and blacks are up to snuff as well. The thing I notice most is the lower 1920 X 1080 resolution.

 

[Paragon54]

They've come up with a whole new tier for that kind of expectation: the $1,700 Eizo CX270 is a pretty likely one-shot buying experience.

The NEC MultiSync 27" 1440p monitors will most likely show up flawless, too: for $1,500.

Particularly in the VA sector (where the blacks are deepest) it seems like the panels are just kinda iffy. Period.

I am looking for a solid 27" monitor to be used predominantly for business and some occasional light gaming. I am system administrator for an Oracle based health care data system with around 4,000 users and do a fair amount of work from home. I could afford either the NEC or the Eizo you mentioned but I don't feel that cost is practical for my needs. I'm looking for a display that I can use for 6-8 hours at a time without a huge amount of eye fatigue.

 

[Bluesun311]

I am looking for a solid 27" monitor to be used predominantly for business and some occasional light gaming. I am system administrator for an Oracle based health care data system with around 4,000 users and do a fair amount of work from home. I could afford either the NEC or the Eizo you mentioned but I don't feel that cost is practical for my needs. I'm looking for a display that I can use for 6-8 hours at a time without a huge amount of eye fatigue.

Well, I'm guessing you aren't against a 1080p monitor, then?

Personally I find higher refresh rates to be less fatiguing and there is a line of low blue-light monitors with zero-flicker that has been released by Benq specifically designed for long hours use. I'm going to hesitantly suggest the new Benq XL2720Z then, since you also said light gaming--but there is a slight problem with the current models so buyer beware. The problem is with the strobing backlight function only (and this is an eye-straining type of function so it may not be useful to you anyway). It's specifically for motion blur while gaming but really only works well at high refresh rates. It's also going to be possible to fix it in the future, and new firmware that allows for adjustments to the function via a 3rd party application has been released on units that are currently deploying for shipment. Updating the firmware is not going to be easy, however, so this is the real concern. Either wait until the new firmware has been confirmed to be shipping in the US, or be prepared for a compromised form of "lightboost" on your monitor.

I like the idea of using a large, fast, non-PWM gaming monitor for your application. You will appreciate the mouse response quite a bit, I suspect. It sounds stupid but it's really satisfying and natural to browse/edit/multitask at 120Hz/144Hz refresh rate, and regular tasks like that don't require any real GPU power to do it. Gaming with vsync at 60/75/96fps should be excellent if you are short on graphics muscle, or you can just dial down the eye-candy to try to maintain 120fps. This monitor isn't exactly cheap or expensive at around 400 dollars, and it's a TN so it's not going to have the prettiest colors you've ever seen, but I am hearing good things about it, aside from the mess with the backlight strobing mode--and QC is less of an issue on TN panels than any other panel type currently, in my opinion. You are unlikely to get a bad unit and the variance between them is low. Sticking my neck out a little bit recommending it, but I'd give it a shot and see if you need to move to a different panel type.

If you would like a recommendation for an IPS/PLS or VA monitor with better colors instead let me know, but this makes things a little bit more of a gamble. I don't think people have yet realized that 120Hz displays aren't just for gaming.

 

[Paragon54]

Yes, I 'd like to hear your recommendations for iPS/PLS and VA. I've always liked a wider viewing angle. I will be building a new rig once the new 800 series of Nvidia Maxwell series of GPUs hit the market.

 

[Bluesun311]

Yes, I 'd like to hear your recommendations for iPS/PLS and VA. I've always liked a wider viewing angle. I will be building a new rig once the new 800 series of Nvidia Maxwell series of GPUs hit the market.

You run the risk of getting dead/stuck pixels with any of these panels, which was basically what the thread started on... You can always return them, but it's a pain in the ass. To give you a frame of reference for worst case scenario I settled on the monitor I am currently using, an Eizo FG2421, after going through 4 of these identical panels--all with random weird issues. The most consistent problem they had is irrelevant for this discussion, but only 2 out of all 5 that have been on my desk were perfect pixel. The one I kept has 1 stuck red pixel, but it's almost completely invisible because it is at the very bezel's edge.

I digress.

My recommendations:
PLS: Samsung S27A850D
ASUS PB278Q
IPS: NEC EA274WMI-BK
Dell U2713H
VA: BENQ EW2740L1080p
Acer B276HUL1440p
ASUS VN289Q1080p 28"

 

[NCX]

My recommendations:
PLS: Samsung S27A850D
ASUS PB278Q
IPS: NEC EA274WMI-BK
Dell U2713H
VA: BENQ EW2740L1080p
Acer B276HUL1440p
ASUS VN289Q1080p 28"

Really? Amazon links instead of review links? Read some reviews before recommending monitors.

Samsung S27A850D-slower pixel response times (Normal) more overshoot ghosting (Faster), worse color presets vs. the BenQ BL2710PT, Eizo EV2736W and Viewsonic VP2770

Asus PB278Q-slower pixel response times (Trace Free 20) or more overshoot ghosting (Trace Free 40+) than the BenQ BL2710PT, Eizo EV2736W and Viewsonic VP2770 and it has a 240hz PWM Frequency

NEC EA274WMi-0 advantages vs. the Eizo EV2736W and Viewsonic VP2770 but costs more than the Viewsonic and is not glow free like the Eizo.

Compilation of relevant information for the above monitors.

Dell U2713H-suffers from really obvious overshoot ghosting, more pronounced IPS glow vs. standard gamut AHVA/IPS/PLS and has 30ms delay except when using the Game mode which uses the wrong color gamut for games and has locked color controls.

Acer B276HUL-30ms delay, suffers from cross-hatching. (Use Google or Chrome to translate)

Asus VN289Q-untested VA panel even though there are plenty of well reviewed VA panels to pick from.

Best Reviewed A-MVA Monitor Thread.

 

[lutjens]

My two NEC LCD3090WQXi monitors have been as reliable as Swiss watches for me. They were fairly pricey when new, but have served with absolutely no issues of any kind for many, many years. I have no issue spending money on components that will last me for years without issue.

 

[Bluesun311]

Really? Amazon links instead of review links? Read some reviews before recommending monitors.

Samsung S27A850D-slower pixel response times (Normal) more overshoot ghosting (Faster), worse color presets vs. the BenQ BL2710PT, Eizo EV2736W and Viewsonic VP2770

Asus PB278Q-slower pixel response times (Trace Free 20) or more overshoot ghosting (Trace Free 40+) than the BenQ BL2710PT, Eizo EV2736W and Viewsonic VP2770 and it has a 240hz PWM Frequency

NEC EA274WMi-0 advantages vs. the Eizo EV2736W and Viewsonic VP2770 but costs more than the Viewsonic and is not glow free like the Eizo.

Compilation of relevant information for the above monitors.

Dell U2713H-suffers from really obvious overshoot ghosting, more pronounced IPS glow vs. standard gamut AHVA/IPS/PLS and has 30ms delay except when using the Game mode which uses the wrong color gamut for games and has locked color controls.

Acer B276HUL-30ms delay, suffers from cross-hatching. (Use Google or Chrome to translate)

Asus VN289Q-untested VA panel even though there are plenty of well reviewed VA panels to pick from.

Best Reviewed A-MVA Monitor Thread.

Hey NCX. Thanks for swooping in and saving the day on this one. If you read the OP he's looking for monitors that aren't likely to need to be exchanged. Maybe he should buy your benq bl2710pt with the dead pixel you've been trying to get rid of for months. Maybe you should go buy some more purple gloves and quit acting like your gods gift to monitor discussions. You are the same guy recommending the benq z series to ppl without mentioning the firmware is broken and motion reduction has bugs.

 

[NCX]

Hey NCX. Thanks for swooping in and saving the day on this one. If you read the OP he's looking for monitors that aren't likely to need to be exchanged. Maybe he should buy your benq bl2710pt with the dead pixel you've been trying to get rid of for months. Maybe you should go buy some more purple gloves and quit acting like your gods gift to monitor discussions. You are the same guy recommending the benq z series to ppl without mentioning the firmware is broken and motion reduction has bugs.

The PB278Q and S27A850D have the same quality control issues (bleeding and pixel issues) as the BL2710PT, EV2736W and VP2770 but are not as good as the BL2710PT, EV2736W and VP2770. The S27A850D used to be notorious for having light bleeding issues...

Not enough people own the EA274WMi or B276HUL to get an idea of how good the qc is or isn't and it is irrational to assume they have much better quality control.

My skeleton gloves are pink and sky fairies do not not exist. I didn't know the BenQ Z series had firmware issues and I've only recommended it a few times...at least I provided a review link.

 

[Bluesun311]

My skeleton gloves are pink and sky fairies do not not exist. I didn't know the BenQ Z series had firmware issues and I've only recommended it a few times...at least I provided a review link.

This post deserves a career in internet marketing. You have partial jargony knowledge that others don't. It COULD be useful, but you needn't be rude about me not including reviews or giving bad advice while slightly drunk in the middle of the night, you could simply come in and politely INFORM. That would be awesome, and make you look a lot more legit.

This all started the other day when you refused to elaborate as to how you KNOW "you cannot hurt a monitor by overclocking it" and then proceeded to try to get someone to OC their monitor that you don't know if it can be overclocked or not and it was pretty obvious you just wanted the information. You said something like you would buy one if it could. Then I started to kind of question your advice, which I had blindly followed up to that point. So I asked you, "You don't think there's any possible connection between dead pixels and Overclocking?" which was a legit question I was asking you because I figured you'd give me an in depth technical explanation. Instead your WHOLE reply was "No." K. So after that, I didn't really have as much respect for you or your advice.

 

[NCX]

It COULD be useful, but you needn't be a douche at me for not including reviews or giving bad advice while slightly drunk in the middle of the night, you could simply come in and politely INFORM.

How would I know you were/are drunk? I was questioning your recommendations with 'attitude'

So I asked you, "You don't think there's any possible connection between dead pixels and Overclocking?" which was a legit question I was asking you because I figured you'd give me an in depth technical explanation. Instead your WHOLE reply was "No." K. So after that, I didn't really have as much respect for you or your advice.

I posted that people have been using their overclocked monitors like the Dell 2209WA for years without issue in that thread. The Qnix QX2700 I was encouraging the [H] member to overclock is one of the launch Korean 1440p monitors along with the Achieva, Crossover, PC BANK and Yamakasi, so it could have an oc-able PCB. Also, he was apprehensive about oc-ing his QX2700 but wanted to buy one of the Qnix/X-Star's which need to be overclocked...link to post. If he OC'd his QX2700 he might find out he didn't need to buy Qnix/X-Star.

 

[Bluesun311]

Samsung S27A850D-slower pixel response times (Normal) more overshoot ghosting (Faster), worse color presets vs. the BenQ BL2710PT, Eizo EV2736W and Viewsonic VP2770

Asus PB278Q-slower pixel response times (Trace Free 20) or more overshoot ghosting (Trace Free 40+) than the BenQ BL2710PT, Eizo EV2736W and Viewsonic VP2770 and it has a 240hz PWM Frequency

NEC EA274WMi-0 advantages vs. the Eizo EV2736W and Viewsonic VP2770 but costs more than the Viewsonic and is not glow free like the Eizo.

Compilation of relevant information for the above monitors.

Dell U2713H-suffers from really obvious overshoot ghosting, more pronounced IPS glow vs. standard gamut AHVA/IPS/PLS and has 30ms delay except when using the Game mode which uses the wrong color gamut for games and has locked color controls.

Acer B276HUL-30ms delay, suffers from cross-hatching. (Use Google or Chrome to translate)

Asus VN289Q-untested VA panel even though there are plenty of well reviewed VA panels to pick from.

Best Reviewed A-MVA Monitor Thread.

The truth is, from a purely dispassionate point of view, this advice is completely logical and sound and I have no rebuttal except to say I would buy the Eizo, which is what I did, except I was looking for a lightboost monitor. So my top pick based on NCX's well-informed advice is the Eizo EV2736W. I'm just scared of buying shit from Eizo after my horror story with the FG2421. Can't exactly blame me, and I've read similar stories from obsessive type people who have had to repeatedly exchange the Eizo EV2736W as well.

Like the OP said, the average quality of monitors isn't like it used to be, but it's not because the companies are out to get anyone necessarily, it's that they are pushing technologies that aren't perfected from a manufacturing standpoint, and there is a dichotomous panel manufacturing sector in place as a result. They have to push out many many panels of lesser quality to cherry pick the panels of higher quality, and they often compromise on these subjective characteristics that don't end up matching with end-user expectations. It's a bit like the microchip business in place, too. And it's pure Darwinian economics... it's like this more or less naturally because it makes more money for the manufacturers.

 

[Paragon54]

Thanks Guys! I think everyone's opinion on this question should be valued unless it's proven to be malicious or BS. I published over 200 products over a 3 year span a few years ago (never did displays). In the process I became somewhat opinionated and often questioned why others didn't always see what I believed to be blatantly obvious. After being away from the review world for this time frame and more into the corporate scene I have mellowed quite a bit and learned respect what almost everyone has to say. This is due in no small part to a change in my perspective coupled with the loss of the "edge" I felt I had when I was writing.

 

[NCX]

Maybe he should buy your benq bl2710pt with the dead pixel you've been trying to get rid of for months.

Excellent advice

Also, everyone needs 4 of these: http://shop.benq.us/lighting/table-lamp/coral-reef-table-lamp-silver.html

In the process I became somewhat opinionated and often questioned why others didn't always see what I believed to be blatantly obvious.

I am aware some of my posts have 'holier than thou' tones. Often knowledge and arrogance go hand in hand, most people, myself included either need to re-analyze their behavior or get 'humbled,' to become better people.

 

[Paragon54]

Would I be any less likely to run into panel issues with a 24" 1980x1200 IPS/PLS PWN free display? My current HP2424W has been a decent monitor with no dead pixels and only a slight back light bleed, it is however somewhat tiring after 2-3 hours work. I'm assuming it is not PWN flicker free. I'm looking for a display that lessens or eliminates that element and am not sold on it having to be a 27" panel. If so any recommendations?

 

[Bluesun311]

Would I be any less likely to run into panel issues with a 24" 1980x1200 IPS/PLS PWN free display? My current HP2424W has been a decent monitor with no dead pixels and only a slight back light bleed, it is however somewhat tiring after 2-3 hours work. I'm assuming it is not PWN flicker free. I'm looking for a display that lessens or eliminates that element and am not sold on it having to be a 27" panel. If so any recommendations?

I really have absolutely no idea... We're mostly talking about displays that I haven't seen, and I was giving off suggestions that I thought were less likely to show up with dead pixels... That's the panel defect that annoys me the most. Ghosting and lag stuff... all the review stuff NCX has researched to really differentiate one PLS panel from another, that is obviously not my strong suit.

I'm really liking the looks of this 1080p VA 27" Benq EW2740L, though and I think that was sort of where I was leading you with my recommendation list above, although I don't know if you are married to going with a higher res or not. I think this monitor is pretty unlikely to show up with dead pixels at least, though I cannot tell you much else about it other than it has low blue light for less eye strain and it is PWM free. Also, NCX didn't rip it to shreads, if you notice. He actually has a link to it in this review from PCmonitors.info on the Best reviewd AMVA panels thread. Well, I found a video that displayed some drawbacks, bit of ghosting and smearing, looked pretty typical of VA but the panel seems pretty uniform to me.

 

[Deleted member 273615]

It depends on what you want the monitor for - something specific? All at once? You will have to make sacrifices in the monitor world, but with TVs there far fewer sacrifices.

 

[kasakka]

I'd say this forum also paints a different picture about displays in general because many here are VERY anal about their displays.

I've been using my 30" Dell 3008WFP for years now. By this forum's standards, it's "unusable":
- Input lag supposedly around 30ms
- Matte antiglare coating that is grainy
- Response time of a typical IPS display
- Mine even has two dead pixels: one black and one that shows red on light backgrounds.

But do you know what is the only thing that truly bothers me with it? The slow resolution switching. It takes roughly 8 seconds for you to get any picture on the display after resolution is changed. My computer has almost booted before the display shows anything. Games that have that "do you want to keep these settings" dialog leave me about 2-3 seconds to answer when changing graphics options.

I've tried it side-by-side with TVs that were supposed to have a very low input lag and in gaming personally couldn't tell a difference. I'm sure there are people unlucky to be more sensitive to issues like this.

What I'm saying is that despite all displays having their bad parts, they are often not as big deal-breakers as reviews or forums might make them to be.

That said, if I were OP I wouldn't buy 1080p displays larger than 24" unless you plan to have the display further away from you (like you would a TV). The larger pixels do become noticeable at some point. If you can, wait for the upcoming 27" 1440p Asus that looks to combine many of the things people here want in displays.