Digital Foundry: Xbox Series X Complete Specs + Ray Tracing/Gears 5/Back-Compat/Quick Resume Demo Showcase!

Armenius said:
Where are you getting 200% from? I mentioned above that on my PC (in signature) averages around 80 FPS at 4K in game. 100 FPS is +25%, however I think that is the peak framerate they observed, unless there is a DF video I missed showing otherwise.
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Going off of the in-game benchmark, the 2080 Ti FE comes in at 25% over the 2080. Going 25% (your frame rate adjustment from benchmark to real game) brings us to 56% above and beyond a 2080. But that's comparing ultra vs ultra. The claimed performance is from "double super secret ultra++" mode. How do we best account for that? Well, if it's like High vs Ultra, we can call it 25% and that brings us to 195% the performance of a 2080. This is also ignoring any performance benefit your water cooled GPU may have over a stock one (my 2080 Ti FEs saw a ~10% boost from adding water without an OC).

The video doesn't make the "100+fps" claim that has been made in this thread, nor does it make the "120fps" claim...which is also in this thread. But for the 120fps, we're looking at 1.25 * 1.5 = 188% the performance of a 2080 before doing the double super secret ultra++ adjustment, which would put us at 235%.

I have watched the video. I also listened to the commentary. It appears no one else here has done that. The Gears 5 demo is NOT a simple "port" with a few "console optimizations" applied. It's a significant engine update which incorporates the new GI model, and 100% of the changes can be carried through to the PC version. The video shows a clip with Gears 5 running the benchmark the same as it would on a PC with a 2080 without the engine updates applied. So, like I said before, there was obviously some tomfoolery involved. Now we know what it is.
 
XBOX vx RTX 2080.png

Here is a screen grab from same scene in the digital foundry video. This is 4K ULTRA with ray tracing on and extra effects on. A two week RTX port to Xbox to use directX ray tracing is looking pretty good. Are we going to get RTX ULTRA 4K60? Probably not but this is still impressive. Drop any one of those things (ULTRA, RTX, 4K) and a very solid frame rate is looking very promising.
 
ManofGod said:
And yet, by the time this releases, my Sony 1080p 50 inch TV will be 7 years old. Even at that, it will not be worth getting a new TV so I will be playing the Series X at 1080p. (It is a Bravia TV, one of the dumb TV's.)
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You'll really be missing out without 4K and HDR. I would say it's almost not even worth buying a new console without updating your TV. Sort of like when Xbox360 came out, you needed an HDTV to see the full quality.
 
cybereality said:
You'll really be missing out without 4K and HDR. I would say it's almost not even worth buying a new console without updating your TV. Sort of like when Xbox360 came out, you needed an HDTV to see the full quality.
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Not a good comparison since the 360 originally came with composite AV cables. It wasn't til the Elite came out that it got a HDMI port.
 
ManofGod said:
I have not been screwed on accessories and game sales so I do not know what you are going on about. I also have XBox Game pass and Gold for one price, with the XBox game pass on my PC as well with that same price. Sure, back in the 360 days, internal hard drive upgrades were expensive when compared to the actual drive itself but, we have not been there in a long time. Heck, my 360 has an external 1TB hard drive connected with a ton of games installed.

If you are screwed on game sales, that is on you not checking the sales properly. I recently bought Kerbel Space Program and star wars jedi fallen order on the XBox One X for the same sale price as the PC versions. I have PC's as well, however.
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Yes you have and are, if you dont get it thats on you. A controller that is similar to an xbox controller is half the price, every accessory or other items you buy has a console tax built into it. Thats the whole point of a console, lock you in, over charge you for controllers, accessories, and games, now days they even charge you for various features and try to make you feel better about it by throwing in some games to xbox gold that you may or may not want. Thats the whole point of consoles. Think about this for a second a basic wired xbox controller cost $30 it has a shitty joystick, shitty dome switch buttons, loose sloppy buttons, and only a hand ful of them at that. Afterall its every other controller player online now days who cries that they need aim assist to make up for their shitty joy sticks and lack of buttons. For the same $30 you can buy entire mechanical keyboards with 104 keys. if you want a dome switches you can pick up a whole keyboard for $5. Thats the whole trick of these products they try to make things different enough you dont realize how bad they are screwing you over.
 
Thunderdolt said:
Going off of the in-game benchmark, the 2080 Ti FE comes in at 25% over the 2080. Going 25% (your frame rate adjustment from benchmark to real game) brings us to 56% above and beyond a 2080. But that's comparing ultra vs ultra. The claimed performance is from "double super secret ultra++" mode. How do we best account for that? Well, if it's like High vs Ultra, we can call it 25% and that brings us to 195% the performance of a 2080. This is also ignoring any performance benefit your water cooled GPU may have over a stock one (my 2080 Ti FEs saw a ~10% boost from adding water without an OC).

The video doesn't make the "100+fps" claim that has been made in this thread, nor does it make the "120fps" claim...which is also in this thread. But for the 120fps, we're looking at 1.25 * 1.5 = 188% the performance of a 2080 before doing the double super secret ultra++ adjustment, which would put us at 235%.

I have watched the video. I also listened to the commentary. It appears no one else here has done that. The Gears 5 demo is NOT a simple "port" with a few "console optimizations" applied. It's a significant engine update which incorporates the new GI model, and 100% of the changes can be carried through to the PC version. The video shows a clip with Gears 5 running the benchmark the same as it would on a PC with a 2080 without the engine updates applied. So, like I said before, there was obviously some tomfoolery involved. Now we know what it is.
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That claim is, specifically, for multiplayer. Which means there will definitely be specific performance and visual optimizations for that mode that won't be in SP. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to push SP beyond 60, but we'll see.

The clip is from DF's own benchmark of the game. Of course it doesn't have all the engine changes because that benchmark was run at launch. I'd imagine the PC release will get the engine updates when the XSX version launches.
 
Derangel said:
I'd imagine the PC release will get the engine updates when the XSX version launches.
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Now that you're in agreement that actual game performance is going to be the same as on a PC a 2080, would you say that your path here was by coming full circle, or by backpedaling rapidly?
 
vegeta535 said:
Not a good comparison since the 360 originally came with composite AV cables. It wasn't til the Elite came out that it got a HDMI port.
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I used component cables on the 360 launch model, which were HD. And it is a good comparison, playing the original Gears of War on a 1080p TV was mind bending back then.
 
Thunderdolt said:
Now that you're in agreement that actual game performance is going to be the same as on a PC a 2080, would you say that your path here was by coming full circle, or by backpedaling rapidly?
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None of the above. Remember, what DF saw was only a couple weeks of work and unoptimized. Gears 5 PC still can't do above 100fps in MP on a 2080. I rather doubt even with engine updates it will hit that. It probably won't be your magical 200% increase however.
 
Derangel said:
None of the above. Remember, what DF saw was only a couple weeks of work and unoptimized. Gears 5 PC still can't do above 100fps in MP on a 2080. I rather doubt even with engine updates it will hit that. It probably won't be your magical 200% increase however.
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The 200% was your number. After inventing a 100fps 4K ultra++ performance, you're backpedaling now that it's clear the video never made the claim and you simply made it up yourself. But, rather than admitting you were wrong, you're going the extra step and saying you never made the claim to begin with.

This is how delusions work.
 
So does this thing support full hdmi 2.1 bandwidth and spec? They didn't really say in the specs. If it doesn't that's kind of disappointing.
 
Thunderdolt said:
The 200% was your number. After inventing a 100fps 4K ultra++ performance, you're backpedaling now that it's clear the video never made the claim and you simply made it up yourself. But, rather than admitting you were wrong, you're going the extra step and saying you never made the claim to begin with.

This is how delusions work.
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https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-tech/

To close out the segment on the power of Xbox Series X, The Coalition’s Technical Director, Mike Rayner, came up to show us how his team is planning to optimize Gears 5 for Xbox Series X. The team showcased a technical demo of Gears 5, powered by Unreal Engine, for Xbox Series X using the full PC Ultra Spec settings, which included higher resolution textures and higher resolution volumetric fog, as well as a 50% higher particle count than the PC Ultra Specs allowed. They also showed off the opening cutscene, which now runs at 60 FPS in 4K (it was 30 FPS on Xbox One X), meaning the transition from real-time cutscenes to gameplay is incredibly smooth.

There were also some noticeable improvements in a few other areas as well. Load times were extremely fast, and the team was able to turn on some features that, while previously implemented, had to be turned off for the Xbox One X version. This included contact shadows (providing extra depth to objects) and self-shadow lighting on plants and grass, making every scene feel more realistic. Rayner also shared that the game is already running over 100 FPS and that the team is investigating implementing 120 FPS gameplay for multiplayer modes, giving players an experience never before seen on consoles. Most impressive of all? The fact that the team was able to get all of this up and running in a matter of weeks.
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vegeta535 said:
Yea I know they existed but the system itself came with composite.
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The Premium came packaged with the cable I posted above. I had to buy one separately because I could only get my hands on a Core, which only came with composite. Both the 20GB and 60GB launch PlayStation 3 models only came with a composite cable, so you had to buy an HDMI cable separately if you went with PS3.
 
Armenius said:
The Premium came packaged with the cable I posted above. I had to buy one separately because I could only get my hands on a Core, which only came with composite. Both the 20GB and 60GB launch PlayStation 3 models only came with a composite cable, so you had to buy an HDMI cable separately if you went with PS3.
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Yeah the pro version came with a component cable. VGA cables were also sold separately and were capable of 1080p.
 
Armenius said:
We were having this discussion in another thread that a modern PC with a 2080 Ti is already a "4k100" machine, more realistically "4k80." 40% more will easily make a 4k120 gaming PC.
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Reality is that performance improvements are usually cut in half or more do to game demand increases. If the 2020 3080ti is 40% faster than the 2018 2080ti, the new card will at best play 2020 games 20% faster than the 2080ti could play 2018 games.

Another way to look at it is the GTX 480 could play everything at 1080 90 fps or better, sans Crysis. The 2080ti is 10x faster, but it is not playing most 4k games today at 4k180 (4x pixels and 2x fps)
 
cybereality said:
I used component cables on the 360 launch model, which were HD. And it is a good comparison, playing the original Gears of War on a 1080p TV was mind bending back then.
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Hell yeah. That first co-op playthrough of Gears of War was just one of those transitional moments, like a baby tasting ice cream for the first time, or skydiving naked into a trump rally. Had to get the green GoW edition 360 because all others were sold out.

I just don't understand how it's already been 14 years since.
 
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ManofGod said:
I have not been screwed on accessories and game sales so I do not know what you are going on about. I also have XBox Game pass and Gold for one price, with the XBox game pass on my PC as well with that same price. Sure, back in the 360 days, internal hard drive upgrades were expensive when compared to the actual drive itself but, we have not been there in a long time. Heck, my 360 has an external 1TB hard drive connected with a ton of games installed.

If you are screwed on game sales, that is on you not checking the sales properly. I recently bought Kerbel Space Program and star wars jedi fallen order on the XBox One X for the same sale price as the PC versions. I have PC's as well, however.
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This is very true. PC games used to be a lot cheaper than console games but that changed some years back. You'll still be harder pressed to find ultra cheap $5-7 games as frequently on PC, but it is much closer than it used to be.
 
rudy said:
Yes you have and are, if you dont get it thats on you. A controller that is similar to an xbox controller is half the price, every accessory or other items you buy has a console tax built into it. Thats the whole point of a console, lock you in, over charge you for controllers, accessories, and games, now days they even charge you for various features and try to make you feel better about it by throwing in some games to xbox gold that you may or may not want. Thats the whole point of consoles. Think about this for a second a basic wired xbox controller cost $30 it has a shitty joystick, shitty dome switch buttons, loose sloppy buttons, and only a hand ful of them at that. Afterall its every other controller player online now days who cries that they need aim assist to make up for their shitty joy sticks and lack of buttons. For the same $30 you can buy entire mechanical keyboards with 104 keys. if you want a dome switches you can pick up a whole keyboard for $5. Thats the whole trick of these products they try to make things different enough you dont realize how bad they are screwing you over.
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Wait, a controller that is similar to an xbox controller is only $22.50? That is some cheap piece of crap that will not last, that is for sure. I bought external hard drives that work on my PC's and both my XBox 360 and One X consoles. Not my fault you bought something that was branded XBox and paid extra, if you did. Still trying to figure out where I am locked in, since I can pay once for many game I own and play it on my One X or PC's. You may not like the reality of the situation but that does not make you right. Also, why would I want to pick up a cheap ass junky keyboard for $5 when mechanical keyboards are far better for typing and last far longer. (No, lets make it clear, you cannot buy a good mechanical keyboard for $30 that will last very long.)

I have 2 XBox One controllers on 2 PC's and they are solid and problem free. I also have my XBox 360 controller with wireless adapter that is at least 6 or 7 years old and still works great on my third PC.. You make claims that like, why buy a good reliable Honda Civic new when you can just buy a crappy, non reliable and junky Nissan Versa brand new instead. After all, Honda is screwing you over and you should not put up with that! LOL! :D
 
ManofGod said:
Wait, a controller that is similar to an xbox controller is only $22.50? That is some cheap piece of crap that will not last, that is for sure. I bought external hard drives that work on my PC's and both my XBox 360 and One X consoles. Not my fault you bought something that was branded XBox and paid extra, if you did. Still trying to figure out where I am locked in, since I can pay once for many game I own and play it on my One X or PC's. You may not like the reality of the situation but that does not make you right. Also, why would I want to pick up a cheap ass junky keyboard for $5 when mechanical keyboards are far better for typing and last far longer. (No, lets make it clear, you cannot buy a good mechanical keyboard for $30 that will last very long.)

I have 2 XBox One controllers on 2 PC's and they are solid and problem free. I also have my XBox 360 controller with wireless adapter that is at least 6 or 7 years old and still works great on my third PC.. You make claims that like, why buy a good reliable Honda Civic new when you can just buy a crappy, non reliable and junky Nissan Versa brand new instead. After all, Honda is screwing you over and you should not put up with that! LOL! :D
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I have had $5 keyboards last 15 years..... And $15 controllers do the same, there is nothing worth any money in an xbox controller, they are just cheap with a markup. You seem to be forgetting RROD. And you are completely ignoring that you have to pay $30 a year to access multiplayer for no reason other than they can. Thats the real point of a console and a locked ecosystem. Make things non standard and then trick people into thinking they are worth it. Even their GPU and CPU in this case of course have to be non standard parts. Gee I wonder what other company is famous for making billions of dollars off similar strategies, oh its apple.
 
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Xbox controllers are absolutely solid. Excellent build quality. A $30 mechanical keyboard is probably garbage. But they're apples to oranges. A keyboard isn't a controller, and isn't a direct competitor even if you can game on both. $30 Xbox controller is an absolute steal. My 360 controller has survived more game hours than many $60-80 mechanical keyboards to.
 
Thunderdolt said:
The "mountain of salt" is that 4K Ultra @ 100fps in that game would put it at 65% faster than a 2080 Ti. The 5700XT, for comparison, comes in at 40fps in that dataset.

Does nobody have a functioning nose any more? Or is bullshit just so pervasive that nobody can tell the difference?
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No, optimizations from first party included VRS which is not on the current version and maybe some acceleration for the RT global illumination, this is why it is a mountain of salt. Depending on the vrs the load could go down a lot, add the extra hardware acceleration instead of regular shaders and that's how I see their showing as a possibility. Being a first party studio they will optimize the crap out of the game, while the game being on the end of current gen's life may be less optimized on pc with the expectation of brute forcing it.
 
Flogger23m said:
Xbox controllers are absolutely solid. Excellent build quality. A $30 mechanical keyboard is probably garbage. But they're apples to oranges. A keyboard isn't a controller, and isn't a direct competitor even if you can game on both. $30 Xbox controller is an absolute steal. My 360 controller has survived more game hours than many $60-80 mechanical keyboards to.
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You guys are unbelievable even if it was so solid it doesn't change the fact it has maybe 20 buttons max and you can make an entire mechanical keyboard which has hundreds of parts for a similar price. Or you can make a dome switch keyboard which has similar buttons to an xbox controller but has over 100 of them for $5. Your anecdotes don't mean much, I throw out dome switch keyboards simply because they are too old and I want a new one for features not because they fail, I still got like a 15 year old one I keep around just for PS2 compatibility. But lets just say that you are right, it doesn't change the fact that the shit is still unbelievably garbage from a performance standpoint. And that is something you have no argument on. The little junk joystick on those things is simply unacceptable in accuracy and that leads to companies being forced to implement aim assist in order to make it passable for FPS games.
 
WTF, the specs on this thing is insane. Depending on the exclusives and 4k bluray support, this or the new Playstation will probably be my first console purchase (for myself) since the original Playstation.

Auer said:
120fps 4K is just around the corner for PC's.....just saying..
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Psh, I don't know about that... I can't even get 120fps (or 100fps for that matter) at 2560 x 1440 in Red Dead Redemption 2 with an overclocked 2080 Ti and an 8700k @ 5ghz.
 
Armenius said:
The Premium came packaged with the cable I posted above. I had to buy one separately because I could only get my hands on a Core, which only came with composite. Both the 20GB and 60GB launch PlayStation 3 models only came with a composite cable, so you had to buy an HDMI cable separately if you went with PS3.
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Hmm really? I swore my launch PS3 came with a HDMI cable. I stand corrected.
 
vegeta535 said:
Hmm really? I swore my launch PS3 came with a HDMI cable. I stand corrected.
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I remember it being a big deal too since cheap HDMI cables weren't as prevalent back then. So you were most likely stuck shelling out for whatever was on store shelves.
 
rudy said:
You guys are unbelievable even if it was so solid it doesn't change the fact it has maybe 20 buttons max and you can make an entire mechanical keyboard which has hundreds of parts for a similar price. Or you can make a dome switch keyboard which has similar buttons to an xbox controller but has over 100 of them for $5. Your anecdotes don't mean much, I throw out dome switch keyboards simply because they are too old and I want a new one for features not because they fail, I still got like a 15 year old one I keep around just for PS2 compatibility. But lets just say that you are right, it doesn't change the fact that the shit is still unbelievably garbage from a performance standpoint. And that is something you have no argument on. The little junk joystick on those things is simply unacceptable in accuracy and that leads to companies being forced to implement aim assist in order to make it passable for FPS games.
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The joysticks work perfectly, you'll never get the precision you do with a mouse for an FPS game. But that has nothing to do with price/build quality. And keyboards don't have gradual pressing, which is something sorely missed when you're not using a gamepad for many games. You're going to have to cite the cost differences because unless you have industry experience you're likely not accounting for something. Obviously they're making a profit, but $30-60 isn't exactly breaking the bank either. Your typical gaming keyboard costs the same or more. And those crappy $10-15 keyboards do suck. I've used them and with heavy use keys break, stop clicking, get stuck, you name it. Both desktop and laptop. I've yet to have any controller break save for the N64 (loose joystick), but the build quality of those are nowhere near the quality of modern controllers.
 
rudy said:
You guys are unbelievable even if it was so solid it doesn't change the fact it has maybe 20 buttons max and you can make an entire mechanical keyboard which has hundreds of parts for a similar price. Or you can make a dome switch keyboard which has similar buttons to an xbox controller but has over 100 of them for $5. Your anecdotes don't mean much, I throw out dome switch keyboards simply because they are too old and I want a new one for features not because they fail, I still got like a 15 year old one I keep around just for PS2 compatibility. But lets just say that you are right, it doesn't change the fact that the shit is still unbelievably garbage from a performance standpoint. And that is something you have no argument on. The little junk joystick on those things is simply unacceptable in accuracy and that leads to companies being forced to implement aim assist in order to make it passable for FPS games.
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Ultra cheap keyboards are utter fucking garbage. There is a reason they're so cheap. I can't stand using that crap to type or game on. Same with those cheap-ass garbage controllers you were talking about earlier. You couldn't pay me to use them.

I don't think you quite understand the engineering that goes into actually designing something nor the cost of some of the tech involved.
 
vegeta535 said:
Not a good comparison since the 360 originally came with composite AV cables. It wasn't til the Elite came out that it got a HDMI port.
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You mean component?

FYI component video DOES support 1080p, and the xbox 360 WOULD output 1080p via component connection. So what are you referring to?
 
Verge said:
You mean component?

FYI component video DOES support 1080p, and the xbox 360 WOULD output 1080p via component connection. So what are you referring to?
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He's probably thinking of the Xbox 360 Core, that included only composite cables. The Premium had the component and sweet Chrome highlights included.
 
Flogger23m said:
The joysticks work perfectly, you'll never get the precision you do with a mouse for an FPS game. But that has nothing to do with price/build quality. And keyboards don't have gradual pressing, which is something sorely missed when you're not using a gamepad for many games. You're going to have to cite the cost differences because unless you have industry experience you're likely not accounting for something. Obviously they're making a profit, but $30-60 isn't exactly breaking the bank either. Your typical gaming keyboard costs the same or more. And those crappy $10-15 keyboards do suck. I've used them and with heavy use keys break, stop clicking, get stuck, you name it. Both desktop and laptop. I've yet to have any controller break save for the N64 (loose joystick), but the build quality of those are nowhere near the quality of modern controllers.
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It actually has everything to do with it being cheap because its perfectly possible to make accurate joysticks, I knew people who played with them. But if you sick a tiny cheap plastic one in there then you trick people into thinking that is acceptable, then you just make up for it by giving them aim assist it tells you everything you need to know. We also know how bullshit your anectodes are, lol the shitty broke controller no one wants to use is literally a staple stereotype in the console world. https://www.google.com/search?q=the....69i57j33l4.9153j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 And yet here you defenders are claiming you havent had one broken controller. Shit my parents have a PS3 they only use for blu ray and even that has 2 / 4 controllers that have issues. The difference is simply that console players have a much lower bar for what they accept.
 
Derangel said:
Ultra cheap keyboards are utter fucking garbage. There is a reason they're so cheap. I can't stand using that crap to type or game on. Same with those cheap-ass garbage controllers you were talking about earlier. You couldn't pay me to use them.

I don't think you quite understand the engineering that goes into actually designing something nor the cost of some of the tech involved.
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If you are so enlightened be a champ and tell us. also i find it hilarious that you seem to have such a problem with low end keyboards but think that controllers are acceptable? Have you even used the mushy loose keys on an xbox elite controller?
 
rudy said:
If you are so enlightened be a champ and tell us. also i find it hilarious that you seem to have such a problem with low end keyboards but think that controllers are acceptable? Have you even used the mushy loose keys on an xbox elite controller?
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I don't use an Elite Controller (way too many quality control issues for me to spend that much money on it) but, yes, I find good controllers acceptable. I grew up playing on both PC and consoles, have zero problem with good controllers.

Here's a hint for cost: Higher quality parts (including plastic) cost a lot more. Plus, design and engineering is neither a quick nor cheap process. The ultra cheap controllers and keyboards simply use pre-existing molds and buy the cheapest stuff they can find to slap together at the factory that offers the lowest prices. This is why they feel like crap.
 
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