Dell U2412M

Actually it's +46% compared to the luminance of sRGB blue.
I don't know how HCFR has calculated this value, but these are the absolute numbers that can be compeard.

But yes, it does need to be higher luminance to account for our sensitivity to the longer wavelength
Spectrum* and human cone sensitivity are independet from that coherence which just reflects relationships of the additive color mixture (see the matrix calculation).

Compared with the chart on their review page, it's not the same blue:
As I said, this chromaticity chart doesn't reflect the situation accurately. I have just taken the data out of the 2 profiles itself (and adapted them to D65 to have the same reference white for all values). Have a look at the presentation in Lab XoR has posted (you reposted it above the validation chart). The white volume is the sRGB gamut boundary there, the colored solid volume the display gamut boundary. As the display behaves linear enough (see profile validation chart), the changes through the "forced" normalisation of the colorimetric values during profilation are minor.

Best regards

Denis

*
As a precaution, not directly related: All spectral information is lost in the colorimetric values - it is never the aim, possible or necessary to reach a specific spectrum (for example similair to D65).
 
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To save going through the thread, I'm wondering how this monitor holds up in terms of ghosting, I have a 580 and a nice rig, I've been 'coverted' slightly since my last thread of being slated for using a TN monitor and the viewing angles on my current TN monitor are now suddenly niggling me. So yeah, is this a good monitor for gaming/design please? thanks
 
I am running a 4850. Your card is fine in terms of 2D/desktop rendering. No worries. Just make sure you can output DVI, VGA, or DisplayPort.

Thanks for info. :) Perhaps eventually I'll need to get a new graphics card for myself...
 
To save going through the thread, I'm wondering how this monitor holds up in terms of ghosting, I have a 580 and a nice rig, I've been 'coverted' slightly since my last thread of being slated for using a TN monitor and the viewing angles on my current TN monitor are now suddenly niggling me. So yeah, is this a good monitor for gaming/design please? thanks

OH crap not you! ;) J/K

This is a good gaming screen in both input lag which is basically nil, and response time. The overdrive might be a small bit over-aggressive, but you can enter the service menu and turn it off or tune it down to your liking and see the difference.

In terms of high speed gaming I haven't had any issue with ghosting or reverse ghosting.
 
Having read the Prad review and skimming over a longish discussion here about "blue" on the U2412M, I'm left with questions and speculations... and would appreciate some clarifications.

Are the mentioned deviations of the blue color channel actually apparent to the naked eye?
How much "worse" does this display actually perform in comparision to other displays in this respect?
It appears to me that recent IPS displays have comparable dE values out-of-the-box (slightly better, but not significantly) and that this issue is probably a consequence of the backlight used. I'd expect for displays that have the same backlight/panel type to show similar behavior. Am I right in my assumptions?
 
Having read the Prad review and skimming over a longish discussion here about "blue" on the U2412M, I'm left with questions and speculations... and would appreciate some clarifications.

Are the mentioned deviations of the blue color channel actually apparent to the naked eye?
How much "worse" does this display actually perform in comparision to other displays in this respect?

TFT central did not seem to have this issue at all and they measured theirs with a spectrophotometer. Of all the readers who bought one, I only remember sonic having an issue with blue.

So right now I think the is the classic case of mountain made out of a molehill.
 
If you look at it from a few feet back, does that big black oval with the creeping white corners of white "mirrorish" haze disappear or get much bigger? If it does, that is IPS glow and nothing to worry about. Backlight bleed will show up when viewed straight-on from a few feet back.

Again as Dok has also noticed, it's good to wait a few days to let the construction tension loosen before wanting a replacement.

It's been six days and I'm not in a hurry to make an exchange or even displeased at this point, just curious about what I should expect in case one will be necessary. A 8', the corner light stays roughly the same. The center dark oval is no longer obvious close or far, and the screen isn't really pictch black, as what I assume is the LED lightens it up noticeably.
 
TFT central did not seem to have this issue at all and they measured theirs with a spectrophotometer.
How much "worse" does this display actually perform in comparision to other displays in this respect?
Their measured values deviate somewhat from sonic_blues and ours but they have an undercoverage regarding sRGB blue too. This is typical for many screens with CCFL blu too (72% NTSC). In posting #1112 I have explained and processed the different measurements.

The problem of the U2412 is not the gamut coverage (here again the already posted example for a LCD with CCFL backlight (72% NTSC)) but neutrality and gradation characteristic which should be much better out of the box.

Best regards

Denis
 
Of all the readers who bought one, I only remember sonic having an issue with blue.

The reason I have an issue with it is because the Delta Error 94 of blue on this monitor is 6.2, as confirmed by Prad.de. This is quite a large error, there is no getting around it. And yes, it is noticeable when using the monitor (dE94>6 = very obvious difference in colour).
 
I don't know how HCFR has calculated this value, but these are the absolute numbers that can be compeard.

HCFR is using the formula (Measured Y - sRGB Y) / sRGB Y

In my case, (12.862 - (0.0722 * 121.788)) / (0.0722 * 121.788) = 46%

So it's 46% brighter than the sRGB blue.
 
This is quite a large error, there is no getting around it.
In colormanaged applications, all colors within display gamut will be mapped ideally (if the profile describes the display characteristic correct). Only in the out of gamut area there will be some deviations and slight clipping (because of mapping different colors to the same representative on the gamut boundary). However: Have a look at the posted "72% NTSC CCFL screen" and its gamut volume and intersection with sRGB (there are very few non WCG screens which offer a better match regarding sRGB). For a flexible workflow, including softproofing tasks, one should choose a screen with extended color space anyway.

Tftcentrals measurements* show a (not enormously) smaller undercoverage regarding sRGB in the "blue area". The gamut volume, calculated in Lab (D50), is altogether noticeable smaller (~7%) compared to your and our measurements. Under the same profilation conditions (and same adaptation algorithm**) this is very unusually for a equal panel + blu. The spectral data would be interesting.

HCFR is using the formula
Hehe - oh sry, little mathematical blooper on my side. +30% is the absolute brightness difference for the tftcentral measurement which is correct regarding their actual primary colors.

Best regards

Denis

*
Taken out of the ICC profile. If the display behaved very nonlinear, the profile date wouldn't necessarily reflect the actual characteristic but that's not the case here.

**
The ICC workflow works relative to D50
 
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The reason I have an issue with it is because the Delta Error 94 of blue on this monitor is 6.2, as confirmed by Prad.de. This is quite a large error, there is no getting around it. And yes, it is noticeable when using the monitor (dE94>6 = very obvious difference in colour).

I don't know what you just said. Isn't this a regular office monitor? There must be a $1000 artist monitor that fits your bill.
 
I don't know what you just said. Isn't this a regular office monitor? There must be a $1000 artist monitor that fits your bill.

For a $340 monitor I suppose the error on blue is acceptable. But my previous 2 monitors were better in this regard (a Benq BL2400PT & Dell U2711). They did not exhibit this overly bright appearance of blues. However they had other problems which the U2412 does not have.

In colormanaged applications, all colors within display gamut will be mapped ideally

The problem is I don't trust colour managed applications to perform the conversions correctly, eg. Firefox. I also want accurate colours on all content, not just colour managed programs. The U2412 satisfies this except for colours with blue in them.
 
The problem is I don't trust colour managed applications to perform the conversions correctly, eg. Firefox.
Nothing to fear. The clipping conversions are quite complex (calculating gamut boundary, for example through the segment maxima method, and mapping colors outside display gamut to the segment with smallest distance) but there's absolute no magic. I have never seen a false implementation. Firefox does it right. The programs can also utilize the CMM of the OS to do the transformations.

For a $340 monitor I suppose the error on blue is acceptable
The characteristic is typical for non WCG screens (72% NTSC). I have among other things posted the gamut volume of the NEC SpectraView 231. It's a pity that I haven't finished our new test software in time for the U2412 review. That would deliver a better overview regarding the behaviour in managed and unmanaged applications. However, as already mentioned: From my point of view the main probem is not the gamut volume compared to sRGB, but the unsatisfactory neutrality and gradation characteristic out of the box.

If you want a screen with an almost perfect representation of sRGB content in managed and unmanaged applications you have to choose a version with extended color space and flexible color space emulation. For example the Eizo CG243W or NEC PA241W to stay in the 24" sector.

Best regards

Denis
 
Hello all,

I just took delivery on a new U2410M yesterday. This is my first post here. I like the size of this monitor very much (was previoiusly working with a 21.5" 16:9 TN monitor). I have no issue with the AG coating. I have found, so far, no stuck pixels.

I have one major problem, and a more minor issue.

First, there is a dark blue/ purple 'blotch' on the left side of the screen, near the bottom. I'd attach two photos, if I could figure out how to do that. (Sorry for my ignorance.)

Second, I find the 'whites' to be a bit off-white: sort of gray. I find this with both the 'standard' preset mode (contrast 75; brightness 38) and the custom color mode where I tried several settings, including those suggested by TFT Monitor Reviews, and by 10e: still the 'off-white' whites.

Finally, could someone suggest to me how to get solid color screens to fill the ENTIRE surface of the monitor for observation purposes? Solid white, solid black, etc. would be useful for test purposes -- I've see photos posted of such, so I know it can be done.

Thanks for reading, and thanks for any help or suggestions.
 
For a $340 monitor I suppose the error on blue is acceptable. But my previous 2 monitors were better in this regard (a Benq BL2400PT & Dell U2711). They did not exhibit this overly bright appearance of blues. However they had other problems which the U2412 does not have.



The problem is I don't trust colour managed applications to perform the conversions correctly, eg. Firefox. I also want accurate colours on all content, not just colour managed programs. The U2412 satisfies this except for colours with blue in them.

Hmm, strange. I had a BenQ VW2420H that they sent me, and two EW2420s and I found the default color calibration of those two screens to be sub-par. I am assuming since they have the same panel as the BL2400PU it would be similar. In fact, I found the blue channel to be far worse on those.

You don't need to use color management in FireFox. You can shut it off and use a LUT loader to keep the profile in your graphics card to perform gamma adjustments. If you want to go "profile-less" and not load an ICM profile into your graphics card, your most cost-effective choices are NEC's LCD2490WUXi2-BK or P241W with SpectraView II.

I also found the U2711's sRGB mode to be oversaturated and a bit between full wide gamut or Adobe RGB mode and sRGB. Not optimal.

I was finally able to update my purchased Lacie Blue Eye Pro to version 4.5.6 and was luckily able to get it to hardware calibrate my LCD2490WUXi2-BK. Earlier I felt the blues were too cyan and in comparing to the U2412M, I felt that even with equivalent color temperature detected by my NEC GammaComp SV sensor (i1D2) that the U2412M's blues were too strong.

After calibrating the NEC with Blue Eye Pro in hardware, the differences are far less, and to be honest, I'd say the blue channel on the U2412M is only a bit too strong.

Having used BasicColor earlier to produce an ICM profile for the U2412M and loading that into the LUT for that particular display, the differences at equivalent 160cdm/2 whites are extremely small. BasicColor did show a small adjustment of "blue gamma" to lower the channel during profiling, but it wasn't anything great. I'll post a screenshot of it later tonight for your perusal.

What I'm saying is not only am I happy with the results, the two monitors are effectively the same in terms of neutral greys, gamma (2.2) and white color temperature. Not comparing the Dell to the NEC in terms of quality, but in terms of "matching up".

So I don't think the blue channel is so far out of whack on the U2412M for it to be an issue for the most part. Your unit may have been an anomaly.

But again, the I1D2 is not necessarily the most W-LED accurate sensor on the market and if you don't have a very accurate sRGB display to compare it to, your eyes may be also telling you something is more wrong than it is.

Not criticizing, just my observations. Cheers sonic_blue and thanks for the great input in this thread and getting Denis to be a "regular" here :)

It's been six days and I'm not in a hurry to make an exchange or even displeased at this point, just curious about what I should expect in case one will be necessary. A 8', the corner light stays roughly the same. The center dark oval is no longer obvious close or far, and the screen isn't really pictch black, as what I assume is the LED lightens it up noticeably.

If it's not a problem to you, no need to rush to return. You can always play with the brightness to see if it improves black levels too. The monitor can go down to 40 - 50 cdm/2 white at zero brightness which is extremely dim. At that point, the black levels are almost competitive with the best displays out there.

Having read the Prad review and skimming over a longish discussion here about "blue" on the U2412M, I'm left with questions and speculations... and would appreciate some clarifications.

Are the mentioned deviations of the blue color channel actually apparent to the naked eye?
How much "worse" does this display actually perform in comparision to other displays in this respect?
It appears to me that recent IPS displays have comparable dE values out-of-the-box (slightly better, but not significantly) and that this issue is probably a consequence of the backlight used. I'd expect for displays that have the same backlight/panel type to show similar behavior. Am I right in my assumptions?

It depends. My earlier posted OSD RGB settings tame the blue channel a bit by lowering it, but also warm up the color temperature turning it a slightly redder/yellower amount versus ideal D65.

It's not normally a big deal, and after viewing a large number of monitors, it's better than most to be honest.

Hello all,

I just took delivery on a new U2410M yesterday. This is my first post here. I like the size of this monitor very much (was previoiusly working with a 21.5" 16:9 TN monitor). I have no issue with the AG coating. I have found, so far, no stuck pixels.

I have one major problem, and a more minor issue.

First, there is a dark blue/ purple 'blotch' on the left side of the screen, near the bottom. I'd attach two photos, if I could figure out how to do that. (Sorry for my ignorance.)

Second, I find the 'whites' to be a bit off-white: sort of gray. I find this with both the 'standard' preset mode (contrast 75; brightness 38) and the custom color mode where I tried several settings, including those suggested by TFT Monitor Reviews, and by 10e: still the 'off-white' whites.

Finally, could someone suggest to me how to get solid color screens to fill the ENTIRE surface of the monitor for observation purposes? Solid white, solid black, etc. would be useful for test purposes -- I've see photos posted of such, so I know it can be done.

Thanks for reading, and thanks for any help or suggestions.

I use UDPixel and CheckEmon to display full colors on the screen.

If the blotch appears on whites as a discoloration it sounds like a defect.

To attach photos you need to upload to a photo service like picasa, flickr, imageshack, etc.... and use URL in the "insert image" icon at the top of the post editor. Let us know.

Here's the link to CheckEMon (only use with Internet Exploder or Chrome, Firefox has issues with the HTML code on the site it seems:

http://www.ykwong.com/download.shtml
 
Thanks 10e.

I only see the blue 'blotch' on a black or dark screen. I downloaded CheckEmon; that will be helpful, Im sure.

I will look into picasa. I wonder if they will allow upload of a full-sized image. I've only ever seen reduced-sized images on picasa, but that could be merely a function of what my friends/ relations choose to upload.

I have also noticed that various software reports my monitor as having a 59Hz refresh rate, despite my having repeatedly reset the refresh rate to 60Hz. It doesn't seem to 'take' or 'stick', despite my selecting 'apply' and 'save'. FWIW, I'm running Win 7, 64 bit, and a GTX 560 Ti.

Dell has agreed to do an advance exchange, so I'm hoping the next one does not have these problems.

Any way to effectively calibrate the monitor without laying out BIG $$ for hardware colorimeter, etc. I gather from 10e's earlier post that a particular sort of colorimeter is necessary to do a proper job with an LED monitor (and I bet even different still for one of the color LED monitors which should come on the scene in a year or three).

73,
-ghoti
 
three photos of 'blotch':

sredir


Thanks again.
 
U2412M is a really bad gamingmonitor because of poorly implemented overdrive which cause horrible reverse ghosting. I would say that U2412M is nearly useless for gaming.

U2412M-reverse-ghosting.jpg

http://www.digitalversus.com/dell-u2412m-p357_11597_88.html

Digitalversus gave it 2/5 in responsiveness.


U2412M also has severe problems with backlight bleed and Digitalversus gave it 3/5 in total so they are not impressed with it overall either.
images

Do you want that to be your next monitor?

----

Buy U2311H if you want a proper IPS screen. Digitalversus gave it 5/5 in total (4/5 in responsiveness which is as good as it gets for an IPS monitor)
U2311H is faster with less ghosting and backlight bleed and a far better screen over all than U2412M.

http://www.digitalversus.com/dell-u2311h-p357_8953_88.html
 
Sorry about my prior post -- can't seem to figure out how to attach photos.

Anyway, here's a link to the picasa album I set up with the three photos:

https://picasaweb.google.com/101947206082028692915/U2410M?authkey=Gv1sRgCKve686FoJDlUg&feat=email#

(select 'full screen')

Oh, and my screen exhibits a bit of backlight bleed, but nothing like the problem shown in the photo posted by Oled. As far as ghosting, I don't play FPS games, but I've not yet noticed any problem with games such as Mass Effect 2. The review on TFT (http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2412m.htm) concerning this issue is at odds with that to which Oled referred.

73,
-ghoti
 
some people says this monitor has ghosting . " What ghosting " I have been playing DX Human Revolution for 10HRS + . I can't tell any difference between this monitor versus the 2ms response time TN Panel.
Also my does not has any backlight bleeding, maybe I'm lucky got a good one
 
Thanks 10e.

I only see the blue 'blotch' on a black or dark screen. I downloaded CheckEmon; that will be helpful, Im sure.

I will look into picasa. I wonder if they will allow upload of a full-sized image. I've only ever seen reduced-sized images on picasa, but that could be merely a function of what my friends/ relations choose to upload.

I have also noticed that various software reports my monitor as having a 59Hz refresh rate, despite my having repeatedly reset the refresh rate to 60Hz. It doesn't seem to 'take' or 'stick', despite my selecting 'apply' and 'save'. FWIW, I'm running Win 7, 64 bit, and a GTX 560 Ti.

Dell has agreed to do an advance exchange, so I'm hoping the next one does not have these problems.

Any way to effectively calibrate the monitor without laying out BIG $$ for hardware colorimeter, etc. I gather from 10e's earlier post that a particular sort of colorimeter is necessary to do a proper job with an LED monitor (and I bet even different still for one of the color LED monitors which should come on the scene in a year or three).

73,
-ghoti

If the blue-black blotch is there when viewed from further away, it's back-light bleed. If not, it's IPS glow. From the sounds of it, it's the former.

Give it a few days to "settle" and if it's there and you don't like it, exchange it with Dell's pretty good warranty.
 
Sorry about my prior post -- can't seem to figure out how to attach photos.

Anyway, here's a link to the picasa album I set up with the three photos:


That is one strange blue glitch. Clearly your screen is defective. Get it replaced.
 
some people says this monitor has ghosting . " What ghosting " I have been playing DX Human Revolution for 10HRS + . I can't tell any difference between this monitor versus the 2ms response time TN Panel.
Also my does not has any backlight bleeding, maybe I'm lucky got a good one

Those people consider videos and cherry-picked pictures of the screen as being definitive, and they don't seem to know what they are talking about.

All owners (including me) have said that there is either no ghosting/reverse ghosting, or extremely minimal ghosting.

Let them cry while we enjoy our screens :)
 
U2412M is a really bad gamingmonitor because of poorly implemented overdrive which cause horrible reverse ghosting. I would say that U2412M is nearly useless for gaming.




Digitalversus gave it 2/5 in responsiveness.


U2412M also has severe problems with backlight bleed and Digitalversus gave it 3/5 in total so they are not impressed with it overall either.

Do you want that to be your next monitor?

----

Buy U2311H if you want a proper IPS screen. Digitalversus gave it 5/5 in total (4/5 in responsiveness which is as good as it gets for an IPS monitor)
U2311H is faster with less ghosting and backlight bleed and a far better screen over all than U2412M.

http://www.digitalversus.com/dell-u2311h-p357_8953_88.html

do you enjoy spreading bs :)? just wondering you seem to do it so often.

I had 4 u2311s, each one had issues from backlight bleed, to color shift or w/e it's called. one end was yellow the other end was blue on a white background.
 
do you enjoy spreading bs :)? just wondering you seem to do it so often.

Oled's already lied about owning monitors he doesn't actually have just to try to convince people of his crap, LOL.

Of course with all monitors that you order on the web safety isn't guaranteed, but the chances with the U2412M look good.
 
Oled's already lied about owning monitors he doesn't actually have just to try to convince people of his crap, LOL.

Of course with all monitors that you order on the web safety isn't guaranteed, but the chances with the U2412M look good.

So far this has been one of the less problematic debuts of a new LG panel, so I hope this is a sign of improving quality and the 23" W-LED panels are good as well.

Don't worry about Oled. It's only a matter of time 'till he gets banned again, and hopefully for good.

If that happens look out for a guy named hydros. I hear they have a lot in common ;)
 
Hey all,

Finally got this monitor. I really like it, except I noticed one issue when putting a white image across the whole screen. Along the bottom where the taskbar normally is, it's slightly darker and has a subtle yellowish tint. The discoloration goes along the whole bottom and is about the height of the taskbar.

I think I read somewhere earlier in this thread where someone left a white image across their screen for a couple days and that helped fix their color issues. Should I try something like that to get rid of this tint? Or should I just get it replaced? Any suggestions would be most welcome. Thanks!
 
Just hooked up my replacement monitor. Nothing on the packaging or monitor indicated it was refurb so it seems like it's new. It has less backlight bleed than my original and now dead pixels so I'm happy. It looks like it's a keeper.
 
Hey all,

Finally got this monitor. I really like it, except I noticed one issue when putting a white image across the whole screen. Along the bottom where the taskbar normally is, it's slightly darker and has a subtle yellowish tint. The discoloration goes along the whole bottom and is about the height of the taskbar.

I think I read somewhere earlier in this thread where someone left a white image across their screen for a couple days and that helped fix their color issues. Should I try something like that to get rid of this tint? Or should I just get it replaced? Any suggestions would be most welcome. Thanks!

You can try the LCD conditioning built-in to the screen, or as you suggest, displaying an all white image.

LCD conditioning flashes solid colors on the screen to get rid of image retention. You get to it by going into the OSD and Menu > Other Settings > LCD Conditioning > Enable

Also that link posted earlier www.doihaveadeadpixel.com, select white and hit F-11 to go full screen.

Try that for a few hours or a day. If the problem doesn't disappear, exchange it.
 
Just received my screen today, gonna set it up later. :)
I must say the stand is much bigger than I anticipated, but it might just look that way without the screen attached.

Does anyone remember what page 10e's settings were posted? Things get buried real quick in these giant threads.

Nevermind, found a link some pages back. Posting again if more are interested:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1037603902&postcount=547
 
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You can try the LCD conditioning built-in to the screen, or as you suggest, displaying an all white image.

LCD conditioning flashes solid colors on the screen to get rid of image retention. You get to it by going into the OSD and Menu > Other Settings > LCD Conditioning > Enable

Also that link posted earlier www.doihaveadeadpixel.com, select white and hit F-11 to go full screen.

Try that for a few hours or a day. If the problem doesn't disappear, exchange it.

Thanks a ton! I'll definitely try that stuff, much appreciated.
 
I just received a U2412M today and the backlight bleed is pretty bad:

vuIH7.jpg


I'm going to give it a few days to break in, but it's probably going back. Are other models like the HP ZR24W less prone to this problem? I'm trying to decide if I should exchange or get a refund.
 
Just got mine today. Looks pretty much perfect. No stuck pixels, very little backlight bleed.
 
I just received a U2412M today and the backlight bleed is pretty bad:
vuIH7.jpg


I'm going to give it a few days to break in, but it's probably going back. Are other models like the HP ZR24W less prone to this problem? I'm trying to decide if I should exchange or get a refund.
I'd give it 10-14 days. Although mine didn't start nearly as bad as your right side, ten days in the corner bleed has almost disappeared (at least tonight). What's left is the LED background effect, something like your far left side.
 
I'd give it 10-14 days. Although mine didn't start nearly as bad as your right side, ten days in the corner bleed has almost disappeared (at least tonight). What's left is the LED background effect, something like your far left side.

The upper-right corner looks worse in the picture than in person. It's not noticable in typical use. But the lower-right is horrible. I can notice it when playing full-screen games in normal room lighting.
 
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