Redbeard, you gotta love it. This thread, and others in other forums, really shows how much demand there is waiting for this product to be available in retail stores. You are in the enviable position to have a new product just about ready to come to market and have potential buyers even counting the days at sea for the container ship to reach port (I am doing this too). In my opinion, a reputation for well designed high quality products and excellent customer service is now serving you well.
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Corsair Graphite Series 600T mid-tower gaming case
- Thread starter Redbeard
- Start date
Yes, 440 replies and Redbeard is still here answering all of our pesky questions. VERY impressive.
Red - please send it up the chain that the enthusiasts really appreciate your presence on the forums. It's a big part of the reason I'm going to ask for this case come birthday time. There are many options for cases, but brands that are devoted to quality builds and input from the users deserve to be rewarded.
Redbeard
Official Corsair Rep.
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It's possible but there are always possible delays on customs, loading/unloading at the dock, etc. Newegg's pretty well experienced here so that's likely the date it shows up.
cmathews03
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A very detailed and thorough review of the Graphite 600T can be found at the following link: http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/corsair_600t_case_review/1
He hit on exactly what I did earlier in the thread. That is to give more room up top for radiators. If it was one thing I'd want to see in this case to make it perfect it would be a extra 1.5 inches extra room in hight inside the case.
That said I think he was a bit critical on the case in some areas and tended to put too much of his personal feelings of the case into the review.
I still like this case alot though
pwrusr - The review seemed a bit biased to me as well. While he may have brought up some valid points concerning the 600T's utility for water cooling vs it's utility for air-cooling, his comparison of this case to the one he owns came off a bit more personal opinion than objective review. Nothing in the review dampened my desire for the case.
firas
2[H]4U
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the title of that review should be “cases and water cooling”
my thoughts for a triple rad support.
i'm sure Corsair thought about it but I don't know why they didn't do it the top mesh is already covering all that area.
my thoughts for a triple rad support.
i'm sure Corsair thought about it but I don't know why they didn't do it
the top mesh is already covering all that area.
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cmathews03
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I agree that the review was a bit skewed in one direction, and that Tom Logan sort of nitpicked his way around the case. For instance, the "plain black 120mm exhaust fan" is really a triviality, as I'm not even a fan of LED fans. Also, since I had no intention of using this case to watercool my components, it was nice to have him confirm that the cooling within the case is much improved over the 800D/700D model(s), as that was going to either make or break my purchase.
All-in-all, I still want the case. And I want it now! Heh.
All-in-all, I still want the case. And I want it now! Heh.
Looks SWEET when fully build!
600T is not in the same class as the ft02.
Scratch sending this up the chain send them a link to see our posts and let you superiors read it themselves.
I have many cases I plan to buy as well as some tires and various other parts or my car but you have been here answered our questions and mine and personally gave me some really good advise. For this I am buying the case first off and look forward to getting it.
This is very admirable of you and the company.
My uncle john is building a new work station for his work the govt. gave him 5k to spend on his pc he is also buying the case. Even in his line of business he is impressed buy your service.
I have many cases I plan to buy as well as some tires and various other parts or my car but you have been here answered our questions and mine and personally gave me some really good advise. For this I am buying the case first off and look forward to getting it.
This is very admirable of you and the company.
My uncle john is building a new work station for his work the govt. gave him 5k to spend on his pc he is also buying the case. Even in his line of business he is impressed buy your service.
Based on ????
zero2dash
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He owns an FT02?? (he's owned several in fact)
600T isn't really built for high end air with silence, FT02 is.
Cases with all that mesh are not built for silence. Antec, Tt, 600T, CM, LL/Lancools etc. all built the same way. Lots of mesh/holes = lots of noise. Doesn't matter what fans you run, unless you run everything at 7v you will have noise and in that case if you're running at 7v the cooling efficiency of the case is crippled severely.
FT02 has 2 things going for it - obviously the noise dampening on the side panels helps, but the fact that the fans are on the bottom and away from your ears also helps as well.
The original comment was questioning which would be better for noise, Omerta is correct - there is no comparison, FT02 is in it's own class in noise while having temps of high air flow cases that normally are not that quiet.
600T is a nice looking case, but anyone looking for high end air yet silence - FT02, no comparison.
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The mesh can be a pretty big feature. We have two cats and the hair gets everywhere, easily removable mesh intake covers are a huge bonus. It beats cleaning hair and dust out of the damn CPU fan.
I'm looking to replace my current case with a high-end air cooling case, my old one is an xclio that cooled fine until I went with SLI fermis. As you can guess, its basically narrowed down to waiting on this (with a side window), or the FT02.
I'm looking to replace my current case with a high-end air cooling case, my old one is an xclio that cooled fine until I went with SLI fermis. As you can guess, its basically narrowed down to waiting on this (with a side window), or the FT02.
zero2dash
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Thanks for reply. Now i know what case to buy
No prob
I don't recall how the dust filters work on the 600T, they're fairly easy to remove on the FT02.
300 is very easy, I don't like how the front gets caked up though in my house if it's dirty. Same with the K7B. (5 cats / 1 dog in my case
)Even though it didn't have dust filters, I didn't have much dust at all when I had my PC-V1000BW PlusII. Just depends on the case really. I hated my HAF 922, worst dust filter ever. You have to take out the whole front panel (6 screws), they didn't make it easy.
Thanks for the explanation. I questioned how omertà could 'know' that the FT-02 is inheritenly quieter than the 600T without hands on experience with both cases. Your explanation clears it all up.
it's not just that man. The FT02 has BETTER airflow at the same time and is quieter, too. It also has better build quality thanks to the unibody aluminum exterior. The FT02 is what you'd call a high-end case, and I wouldn't say the same for the 600T. Though the 600T has been growing on me and does look like a very nice case.
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Redbeard
Official Corsair Rep.
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I don't mean to be rude or to stifle discussion, but I don't really think it's fair to make declarative statements about a case that almost nobody has reviewed. The 600T still hasn't had any real in-depth reviews with performance numbers, and none of the one or two that are out there compare it to the FT02.
As somebody said before, the FT02 and 600T are in very different categories. The FT02 is an aluminum chassis that costs 50% more than the 600T, so comparing them isn't really fair. It's like comparing a CX430 PSU against a TX750 PSU. They're not designed for the same user.
One of the reviewers said that the 600T offers good air-cooling, but that it is not in the very top bracket when it comes to air-cooling. The FT02, however, is arguably the best air-cooling case on the market. That's what I am basing my statements on.
And yes, I agree. The FT02 and 600T aren't really in the same category when it comes to cases. The 600T is a much more affordable and mainstream case when compared to the FT02. But I would place it in the same category as the RV02, and if I were to pick between the two, I'd get the 600T because I prefer its looks, but the RV02 is the better air-cooling case.
This is what I was afraid of when I made my comment "Based on???". While zero2dash made some good points about the different designs its still speculation until we see some objective reviews; "...the 600T offers good air-cooling, but that it is not in the very top bracket when it comes to air-cooling" comes off more as opinion than objective review. I was not impressed with that particular review as the reviewer never presented any evidence to back up his statements.
I'm not so sure I'd be willing to bet the farm that the build quality of the FT-02 is a cut above that of the 600T. Aluminum does not in and of itself make a case better. While the FT-02 is generally seen as a well built case I have read a few knocks against it. Namely that there's not much room behind the mobo for routing wires, and that the side panels are thin enough that routing cables behind the mobo can cause that panel to bow out.
Admittedly, I've never set hand on either case so everything I've stated should be taken with a grain of salt. The point I'm trying to make is that saying A does one thing or another better than B lacks credibility when there are no substantive reviews of B.
When it comes to air-cooling, the 600T is the same design we've seen before. There's numerous amount of cases (especially from coolermaster) with very similar cooling designs, and they do not outperform the FT02 or RV02. As far as the guy, I'd take his word for it even though he didn't provide numbers solely based on that fact.
No where did I say aluminum alone makes a case better. But trust me, I've dealt with MANY cases. The silverstone cases with unibody aluminum are more durable than any plastic/steel case I've seen. You'd have to see it to understand. The 600T is more plastic, but according to reviews, a high quality plastic, but nothing matches the unibody exterior of the ft02 besides the TJ07 or ft01. The tj07 has thicker aluminum than both of them.
The side panels aren't thin. They're thick and made out of steel. The side panels on the FT01 are very thin, yes, but not on the FT02. And yeah, there's not a lot of room behind the mobo tray, but as long as you are organized in your cable management behind the mobo tray (which most people aren't), the side panel will fit fine.
I'm not really trying to say the 600T sucks or anything. All I am saying is that it simply isn't in the same class as the FT02.
zero2dash
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Having never felt or worked with the 800D or 700D (ie any other Corsair case), I can't comment on their build quality, but I've heard their build quality is top notch - I would expect as such from Corsair.
I've owned several Lian Li cases, the FT02 is the first Silverstone case I've owned. I will say that the FT02 is on par with Lian Li in build quality.
No argument there.
Depending on what cables you route and what your psu cables are like, you can run into troubles. Using the HX850 with the FT02, I haven't had any bowing problems with the far side panel as you describe.
Agreed, and Redbeard's viewpoint is sound as well. Hard to make an accurate comparison when the 600T hasn't been released yet. It's really not a fair comparison either to the 600T to lump it in with the FT02; I agree with Omerta, the RV02 is a better comparison based on MSRP alone. I also agree that the RV02 is rather fugly, that's why I went with the FT02 instead.
However: the reason why anyone can safely assume FT02/RV02/TJ11 > 600T regarding better air cooling -
the thermal design of the SS makes it superior. Heat rises, the intake fans are no more than 1" from the graphics cards and no more than 6" or so from the cpu heatsink.
In any other case other than the SS that do not have this design, they all use the same front intake, rear exhaust design. I'm not saying it doesn't work - I'm saying your gpus get colder air when the intake fan is right by them. SLI cards (specifically the topmost card) stays cooler in the SS cases because the cards are oriented vertically and heat rises, instead of the bottom card giving more heat to the topmost card. It really is thermal 101, there is no simpler way to explain it.
Not trying to TC, I think the 600T is a very nice case....I'm just posting to answer the question regarding which would be a better air case. Once you factor in that now the SS cases include the new AP fans, it's even better.
blue whale
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I found the overclock3d.com review impartial and its criticisms valid. It hit upon a crucial factor in deciding to purchase this case: water cooling feasibility. It was known early on that the 600T would not accomodate a 360mm radiator, however, it was hoped that it would allow a 240mm + 120mm rad set up.
I think this problem could have been avoided by eliminating one of the few other critisms I have with this case: its plastic shroud/bezel. Assuming that the measurements of the case were made from its most extended points, it's easy to see that a portion of the 600T's dimensions are spent on aesthetics rather than usable space. The bezel extends a fair amount beyond the IO panel in the rear and the top of the case is domed. Had the decision been made to eschew the bezel and simply make a rectilinear case with the same dimensions, more space for components would be available. Perhaps even a 360mm radiatior would have fit at the top.
I may still buy this case. However, as the review stated, I will have to rethink my cooling strategy. One gain made, as the review also mentioned, is that Corsair is making improvements on case designs.
Regardless if I buy this case or not, I would like to thank Redbeard for answering all our questions and taking into consideration all our suggestions. Your efforts are appreciated.
I think this problem could have been avoided by eliminating one of the few other critisms I have with this case: its plastic shroud/bezel. Assuming that the measurements of the case were made from its most extended points, it's easy to see that a portion of the 600T's dimensions are spent on aesthetics rather than usable space. The bezel extends a fair amount beyond the IO panel in the rear and the top of the case is domed. Had the decision been made to eschew the bezel and simply make a rectilinear case with the same dimensions, more space for components would be available. Perhaps even a 360mm radiatior would have fit at the top.
I may still buy this case. However, as the review stated, I will have to rethink my cooling strategy. One gain made, as the review also mentioned, is that Corsair is making improvements on case designs.
Regardless if I buy this case or not, I would like to thank Redbeard for answering all our questions and taking into consideration all our suggestions. Your efforts are appreciated.
Kaldskryke
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You might want to go take "Thermal 101" a second time
Heat doesn't rise. That's a common myth perpetuated by the fact that warm air is less dense than cold air and that people are lazy and generalize warm air as "heat". In all forms of natural heat transfer, net heat flow is from hot matter to cold matter, regardless of the orientation of any local gravitational fields. Furthermore, the density difference between air at 20°C and 50°C is only ~10% edit: that's roughly 0.1kg/m3, and resulting force imbalance is small enough to be fairly easily overcome by fans. It's not impractical to have intakes on the top of a case and exhausts on the bottom, despite many arguments to the contrary that always cite "heat rises"
Yes, it's the vertical orientation of the videocards in the FT02 is beneficial, but not nearly to the extent that most people imply. The big advantage for the FT02 is the proximity and size of the bottom intake fans.
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zero2dash
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You might want to go take "Thermal 101" a second time
Heat doesn't rise. That's a common myth perpetuated by the fact that warm air is less dense than cold air and that people are lazy and generalize warm air as "heat". -snip-
You clearly have more scientific data, I have more anecdotal and firsthand data.
All's I can say is - my 260 SLI setup runs a good 5-6 degrees cooler now in the FT02 than it did in a S-Flex'd out HAF 922. That and if heat/warm air doesn't rise, how come ceiling fans have 2 settings and you run 1 way in the summer (because of cold air staying at the floor) and the other way in the winter (because of heat rising to the ceiling meanwhile the floor stays cold)? Might be anecdotal there, but again I'm just sayin'... You're welcome! and I apologize to everyone for not installing a system and sharing that, but I don't have much time for that. As you could see, the 600T was completely dismantled while shooting the video review and will remain like that for the coming weeks...lol
I've recieved many questions, the most popular has been "Will a 240 rad fit in the front?" Yes, 240 rad fits, height wise, between floor and bottom of 5.25 bay, if 2 HD cages and black box platform they reside on, are removed.
@Redbeard, I would add On/Off switch for LEDs in future...That was another popular question.
I knew while recording that review that CM Sniper comparisons would surface, but felt it wasn't fair to Corsair to bring it up in the review, like Redbeard has already stated, the fan control knob is the only similarity between the two. I've worked on the Sniper extensively. It has overall cheaper quality molded plastic. The internal HD trays and tool-less latches in the Sniper are more susceptible to breaking. I've busted it's tool-less PCI releases not once, but twice! and I'm not hard on cases. The Sniper's top fan control is very flimsy compared to 600T. The Sniper's MB tray is smaller, lacks cable the big holes. It does have perforated side panel and space for tucking wires, but only because of the side bulges. You either love or hate the Sniper's industrial style exterior... I do think the 600T's minimalistic exterior will have more longevity for most people's tastes.
I'm confident that those of you who do purchase the 600T, will be happy! It's definitely my current favorite mid-tower!
You might want to go take "Thermal 101" a second time
Heat doesn't rise. That's a common myth perpetuated by the fact that warm air is less dense than cold air and that people are lazy and generalize warm air as "heat". In all forms of natural heat transfer, net heat flow is from hot matter to cold matter, regardless of the orientation of any local gravitational fields. Furthermore, the density difference between air at 20°C and 50°C is only ~10% edit: that's roughly 0.1kg/m3, and resulting force imbalance is small enough to be fairly easily overcome by fans. It's not impractical to have intakes on the top of a case and exhausts on the bottom, despite many arguments to the contrary that always cite "heat rises"
Yes, it's the vertical orientation of the videocards in the FT02 is beneficial, but not nearly to the extent that most people imply. The big advantage for the FT02 is the proximity and size of the bottom intake fans.
I do not agree with this. You seem to be confusing convection with conduction. Conduction, does not really care about gravity and is the heat transfer mechanism from the various hot surfaces to air that is in contact with these surfaces. Convection, is the heat transfer mechanism that transfers the hot air out of the case and this process certainly is influenced by gravity.
First, hot air certainly does rise, and, as it rises, carries a lot of energy with it. This type of heat or energy transfer is called convection and should not be minimized as an effective form of energy transfer. I grew up in a house very effectively heated in the winter by a combination natural convection (no fans) and (to a much smaller extent) radiant heat, all from surfaces warmed by hot water.
Second, sufficiently strong fans will indeed cool anything in any direction but at the expense of a lot of unnecessary noise and wasted energy needed to drive the fans (albeit not much for relatively small case fans). It is much more efficient to let mother nature at least help with the work and use fans to simply enhance what mother nature naturally does. This means colder air supplied at the bottom of a case and warmed air vented from the top of the case. The fans, ideally, do nothing more than enhance this natural flow.
Third, air has mass. That means the fan has to impart energy to the air to get the air moving. If the fan is used to change the direction of air flow, more noisy energy is needed just for the change of direction that contributes nothing to the rate of flow. In other words, fans are most effecient if they are not being used to change the natural direction of flow (which is of course up when the air is being warmed). Fans can easily be used to change the direction of air flow and move air horizontally but they will do this at the expense of a lot more noise.
I looked hard at the F02 before I made the decision to go with the 600T. The 600T appeals to me because it 1)uses only large 200mm fans. The large fans are quieter (than smaller fans) for the same amount of air flow. 2) The front lower intake fan and top mounted exhaust fan should allow me to take advantage of the natural flow of air and have a mostly silent well cooled machine. The H50 radiator will exhaust horizontally just below the top mounted exhaust fan but this appears to be the best compromise short of the impractical solution of mounting it outside the case.
One last thought. There is a lot to be said about the old adage "less is more". I think this applies to fans. My goal is a computer cooled only sufficiently well to assure 100% reliability using the least amount of fans possible for the least noise. The F02 simply seemed to need too many smaller fans to provide sufficient air flow through the case and I was concerned it would end up noisier than the 600T. I also felt the bottom mounted intake fans, forcing air flow across the carpet, would be a dust magnet and a better compromise is a lower front mounted supply fan.
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The ft02 has filters on all the intakes so dust won't be a problem. You'd have to clean them more often. I certainly prefer it to the front intakes with mesh as on most of the cases because the front ends up getting dusty and looking ugly cause of the dust showing, so it needs to be cleaned more often than I'd like.
Second of all, there's only one 200mm intake fan, unlike the FT02 which has three intake 180mm fans in much closer proximity to all your components that need cooling. The air penetrator fans that all the new ft02 are shipping with also have MUCH more focused airflow than any other fan on the market. And these fans really aren't audible at the low setting and will push more air that's also much more focused. I suspect that the 600T stock fans will be very quiet, too, but no way will it cool as well as the FT02, and the noise differences, if at all, will be negligible because you can't even hear the FT02's fans at the low setting , and there's also hardly a difference in temps (in my experience) with the ft02's fans at the low or high setting.
Also, if your main goal with a pc was completely silent computing, I wouldn't be looking at the FT02 or 600T anyway.
I am not trying to achieve a completely silent machine but only a machine that is mostly not audibly noticeable unless the room is very quiet and one listens for it.
I want a very high quality case and I perceive the 600T to be a high quality product. This was also a significant part of my ultimate decision. I am a little concerned about the extensive use of plastic but this may be OK as many plastics, if properly applied, are of very high quality. I guess I am putting my trust here in Corsair's reputation.
I felt the 600T had much better provisions for cable management. I want a proffessional and orderly cable installation that also easily lends itself to revisions later. I think this should apply to both sides of the case and the 600T appears to have more room on the back side. It is not so important to me that the cables be hidden but that they are neatly installed and easy to remove/replace/rerout at some later time when upgrades are made.
The larger interior of the 600T was a large influence on my decision.
I do not particularly like the appearance of the FT02 but I do like the 600T. The F02 is boxy/kludgy whereas the 600T has elegant understated lines but is still not flashy or gaudy. This was certainly not a deciding factor but it did influence my decision.
Bottom line: I shot the dice and I will know at the end of this month if I made the right decision. I am not sure I can lose too badly even if it does meet all my expectations. I do intend to post something once I have everything assembled and in service.
Yeah, the only three things the 600T have over the FT02 are the easier cable management, bigger cut-out for swapping out cooler, and more room for graphic cards. It will definitely be easier to build in.
But I don't really think you can judge the FT02's looks till you see it in person. I thought it was really ugly, too, before I saw it in person.
But other than all of that, the two cases aren't really in the same category. One is an expensive high-end aluminum case (you can say what you want about aluminum, but it does increase the price of a case) and the other (600T) is a very reasonably priced mid-tower case with much broader market appeal thanks to its lower price.
But as far as getting a case that has very good airflow with very limited noise, I do think you are indeed making a mistake, as the FT02 is THE case for people that want high-end airflow with limited noise. Cooling designs of the 600T have been done before, and they don't beat the FT02 when it comes to noise or airflow. And that's not just thanks to the fans of the FT02. But it's also thanks to the limited mesh throughout the ft02.
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All this discussion on the science of airflow and heat transfer has been facinating. There is one point which still eludes me that has not been covered. Why does the first pull on the cord ALWAYS sends the drapes in the wrong direction? Seriously though I've enjoyed the discussion.
A bit disappointed there is not a switch to turn the fan LED's off. Any one know of a convenient way to disable (peremently is OK) the LED's while leaving fan operation intact.
A bit disappointed there is not a switch to turn the fan LED's off. Any one know of a convenient way to disable (peremently is OK) the LED's while leaving fan operation intact.
That may be true but I think that RhoXS's point that if both cases are sufficiently quiet and keep the components sufficiently cool then being THE case for quiet cooling doesn't add a lot of value. Any cooling beyond the point of what is sufficient is overkill and in a sense a waste. Everyones definition of what is sufficient is going to differ but RhoXS and I are hopeful that the 600T will meet our definition.
It depends on the person. If you're running a gtx 480, trust me, it makes a big difference. The FT02/RV02 are actually known for silencing the gtx 480.
http://www.hardocp.com/news/2010/06/25/gtx480_silencer
cmathews03
n00b
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The recent debate about the FT02 and the 600T has definitely made me scratch my chin. Visually, I much prefer the 600T's look (I've seen the FT02 in person, and while it's aesthetic appeal is easily more discernible when placed before me, I still find myself wanting more from it [from a design standpoint]). However, the cooling of the FT02, from the many reviews I've read regarding its performance, is incontrovertible: it pushes a ton of air while remaining surprisingly quiet. Both looks and cooling potential are large factors in purchasing decision for me, as well (I'm sure) for others--I don't typically purchase new cases all that often.
I still have my pre-order with Amazon (I didn't want to lose the $143 price tag at which I secured a case), but I'm admittedly waiting for some performance reviews of the 600T to push me in one direction or the other. I agree with a previous statement that was (and I'm paraphrasing) people have differing opinions about what is means to be "sufficient" at cooling; so hot as the 600T has push enough air to keep my components happy, I'll be sold.
I think.
I still have my pre-order with Amazon (I didn't want to lose the $143 price tag at which I secured a case), but I'm admittedly waiting for some performance reviews of the 600T to push me in one direction or the other. I agree with a previous statement that was (and I'm paraphrasing) people have differing opinions about what is means to be "sufficient" at cooling; so hot as the 600T has push enough air to keep my components happy, I'll be sold.
I think.
I remain hopeful that a pair of GTX 460's will not require the awesomeness of THE case (One case to rule them all?
)All this talk of the FT-02, air flow, and thermal efficiency has piqued my interest. I'd assume that given the 600T's layout it would be considered a negative pressure case while the HT-02 is from what I have read a positive pressure case. How does negative pressure vs. positive pressure enter into our airflow debate?
The design I anticipate for the 600T will probably be only slightly positive. The supply and exhaust fans will balance each other out but the H50 will use a 120mm fan blowing air through the radiator into the case. However, the mesh will probably allow air to bleed out as fast as it tries to pressurize. I am not sure how this will effect the efficient removal of energy from within the case. I am betting that it will enhance it as the net effect will be to have a relative large amount of supply air with excellent removal characteristics, ie. it will breath well. I also think that warm air that rises to the top of the case will be efficiently removed by the 200mm exhaust fan. However, we all know the saying about the plans of mice and men....
BTW, the FT-02 unconventional mounting of the mother board with the external connections at the top of the case was, by itself, a no-go decision. Forgot to mention this before.
BTW, the FT-02 unconventional mounting of the mother board with the external connections at the top of the case was, by itself, a no-go decision. Forgot to mention this before.