Mine does this too. Ugh, looks like these are going back! Why is it so difficult to find a decent monitor?
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BenQ GW2x50(HM) thread.
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Mine does this too. Ugh, looks like these are going back! Why is it so difficult to find a decent monitor?
Outbreaker
Limp Gawd
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Because LCD is a crappy technology. 
Keep in mind that these BenQ's are very low end monitors.
I'm not sure why manufacturers think it is necessary to make such cheap displays when they could charge 100$-200$ more and provide better quality instead of cutting corners to keep the costs down. If they advertised "No light bleeding and no LED PWM Flicker (provide an image showing the effects of PWM like this one)," on the box and charged 100$ more even joe average might consider spending more.
People should try overclocking these, I've used a few displays wich perform better @7xhz and either don't overshoot or smear as much @60hz. Displays which overshoot always have it worse with lower fps sources.
I'm not sure why manufacturers think it is necessary to make such cheap displays when they could charge 100$-200$ more and provide better quality instead of cutting corners to keep the costs down. If they advertised "No light bleeding and no LED PWM Flicker (provide an image showing the effects of PWM like this one)," on the box and charged 100$ more even joe average might consider spending more.
People should try overclocking these, I've used a few displays wich perform better @7xhz and either don't overshoot or smear as much @60hz. Displays which overshoot always have it worse with lower fps sources.
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Namelessme
[H]ard|Gawd
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I've wondered that too. But then again, I think most manufacturers consider consumers in general to be uneducated. How else do you explain dynamic contrast claims, or super bright oversaturated colors, reducing usable screen size (16:10 to 16:9), yet somehow using marketing speak to turn that into TRUE HD, or... well, cheapo TNs in general?
And there is also the fact if they advertised no light bleeding and no PWM flicker, what does that mean about all of their other monitors in their lineup? They have bleeding and flicker? That's a hard sell.
A good company could upgrade their entire lineup, but unfortunately I doubt any will do so. But at the least they should include better adjustable stands ... I think most consumers would pay the extra $5 or so for the ability to raise or lower their monitor.
Is having a different gamma for R/G/B colors a problem? My GW2450HM has (according to gamma calibration page at http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gamma_calibration.php) gamma at 48%: R 2.4, G 2.7, B 2.9, grey 2.6 with default gamma=3 setting in OSD. I lowered gamma in OSD to 2 and adjusted gamma for blue and green in Catalyst control panel, but colors then look a bit more washed out. I don't know if it is normal to have gamma so different for each color...
What experience do you have with e-IPS panels, versus AMVA? I returned Philips 235PQ2EB before buying this Benq, because of high IPS glow in corners when watching from close distance and eye strain that I had from it, but it had nicer colors than this AMVA and no ghosting. What do you think could cause that eye strain there? Benq doesn't cause it so much. I would think that it could be either PWM (it has only 200 MHz in Philips, but Benq has about 240 MHz), or FRC (I didn't see any color tones flickering), smaller pixels, IPS technology, or hard coating... What do you think?
I am thinking about returning GW2450HM and buying LG IPS235P or Dell U2412M, but I am afraid that it will have the same issues like that Philips... Also I didn't find anywhere what PWM frequency is used in U2412M.
What experience do you have with e-IPS panels, versus AMVA? I returned Philips 235PQ2EB before buying this Benq, because of high IPS glow in corners when watching from close distance and eye strain that I had from it, but it had nicer colors than this AMVA and no ghosting. What do you think could cause that eye strain there? Benq doesn't cause it so much. I would think that it could be either PWM (it has only 200 MHz in Philips, but Benq has about 240 MHz), or FRC (I didn't see any color tones flickering), smaller pixels, IPS technology, or hard coating... What do you think?
I am thinking about returning GW2450HM and buying LG IPS235P or Dell U2412M, but I am afraid that it will have the same issues like that Philips... Also I didn't find anywhere what PWM frequency is used in U2412M.
Outbreaker
Limp Gawd
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I had an LG IPS235V and it was a lot worse than the BenQ GW2450 that i have now.
The IPS Glow was dam annoying especially if you watch dark movies.
And because of this Aggressive AG Coating i had the feeling like watching true a dusty window and it had also more ghosting.
For this price you won't get any better Monitor than the BenQ GW2450 or GW2460 i would even pay 2 times more for a Monitor but i didn't found one that deserved paying 2 times more.
The IPS Glow was dam annoying especially if you watch dark movies.
And because of this Aggressive AG Coating i had the feeling like watching true a dusty window and it had also more ghosting.
For this price you won't get any better Monitor than the BenQ GW2450 or GW2460 i would even pay 2 times more for a Monitor but i didn't found one that deserved paying 2 times more.
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Those impressions don't mirror mine at all. I've found a lot of issues with this panel, especially with ghosting and all this lag type stuff. Someone else posted how when scrolling on pages like hardforum you get the text turning yellow. Happens to me and it's super annoying. I think the AMA setting might've helped a little, but not enough.
I did notice that my firmware seems old, and the build date is back in May 2012, before these supposed fixes in June. Is it worth trying to get the firmware updated or the panel serviced in some way?
I'm strongly considering just going back to plain TN LCD. It's fast enough and the colors were fine for me and what I do (game, browse web, whatever). I just wanted to get some better contrast but not at the sacrifice of response time and going blind (I haaaate LED).
Outbreaker
Limp Gawd
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If you have a bugged firmware then send it back.
TN is simply crap i would take any IPS over an TN and i would take any CRT over an LCD.
TN is simply crap i would take any IPS over an TN and i would take any CRT over an LCD.
If you have a bugged firmware then send it back.
TN is simply crap i would take any IPS over an TN and i would take any CRT over an LCD.
lol. I'm used to TN though. I hear to much about IPS glow to want to gamble with that.
Outbreaker
Limp Gawd
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You could try one of this overpriced IPS or PLS that's the only LCD section i didn't test since my beloved CRT died on me.
We really need OLED so we can put this LCD technology.in the Hall of Fail.
We really need OLED so we can put this LCD technology.in the Hall of Fail.
It was probably me, I reported this scrolling issue with the text turning yellow one or two days ago, and that setting colors to colder tone (blue over 97 in custom color settings) fixes it at least for black text on white background. Did you read somewhere that newer units have no ghosting? Mine is from June 2012, so I don't know. If it should be fixed in newer revision, I can return it, buy a new one and hope that it will be better...
I have TN monitor in the office, it is not so bad, but I would rather have IPS/VA at home. I would be willing to pay 2x more, if it would be monitor with no PWM, 8 bit colors, good response time and good semi-matte coating.
That's only one of my complaints. The other being the backlight and contrast seems no better than my old Asus TN LCD. I had them side by side before doing comparisons.
No, changing AMA/overdrive doesn't solve it. Value High is a bit better than Off, but Premium produces just different color of streaks - e.g. light blue instead of yellow in case of black background. Also cursor leaves a small white trail on dark backgroumd with AMA high, which doesn't bother me much, but with AMA premium it is a black trail, which is annoying more.
Mercalia: that really doesn't solve overal ghosting issues..
Are you using HDMI? In that case it might be the NVidia 16-235 color output problem. That'll destroy contrast.
Long shot, but did either of you could try to use custom refresh rates and go to 75hz and see if that helps? Racer_J found that it improved some properties of S2440L's response times.
Anyhow. Its all about "picking your poision". IPS or 120hz TN might be more your flavour. Its the most common case anyway. There are some people who prefers VA over other types, though.
No DVI. I also only have the GW2450, not the HM or whatever. But from what I found the only differences should be features, not the actual screen.
I tried the Asus VG248QE as well. That monitor was just way to bright for me. Even when tweaking it. The 120hz stuff was nice, but I can't use a monitor that bright. Even in a well lit room. Just burns my eyeballs. I dunno how you guys do it.
Anyway. I bought an Asus VH236H which is what my GF uses. So that should be fine. A little bump up in screen size is okay and the price was good (sale).
Maybe one day we'll have OLED screens with great blacks and response times, who knows.
72Hz but, I also had to drop the backlight to 0 and, my Dell S2440L also had PWM. I still think it was a fluke that the 72Hz overclock and the PWM frequency just happened to somewhat "sync" with each other. I'm not sure what frequency the PWM was operating at though. It's certainly worth trying to recreate on other displays with PWM but it may require a different refresh rate and, it may be flat out impossible depending on what the PWM frequency is. I was able to get the Dell S2440L up to 74Hz (lacked a dual link DVI-D cable to try higher) but, 72Hz was the sweet spot as 74Hz had more blur to it. It's entirely possible other displays may be able to take advantage of a similar scenario but, I don't know how probable it is. It's certainly worth trying though.
I think its more likely that 72hz affected the overdrive in some proficient way. PWM should have been 300hz (Prad.de's review).
PWM is already synced by refresh rate in most monitors these days. This is to prevent flicker perception or something. If you read panel-specification they sometimes recommend PWM with frequency above 200hz and synced with refresh. And the way most monitor PCBs seems to work is that the LED driver PWM signals are directly generated by the display driver. That means if you pick another refresh rate it usually regulates PWM properly. For instance: when I tried 75hz on a LG IPS277L I got PWM at 225hz = 3*75 and 240hz = 3*60 at 60hz.
The thing is, with the Dell S2440L overclocked to 72Hz, it was no better than 60Hz with the brightness at 100. Motion clarity did not improve at 60Hz when reducing the brightness down to 0. Motion clarity did improve at 72Hz when reducing the brightness down to 0. Regardless of what refresh rate was running, the strobe effect of whatever was being waved in front of the Dell S2440L became far more pronounced as the brightness was reduced down to 0. In addition to that, the overclock and the brightness reduction had little to no impact on the overshoot of the flag and chase tests in PixPerAn. There was minimal improvement to the overshoot on the car in PixPerAn but, that's simply because the increased strobing at a low brightness setting in conjunction with the 72Hz overclock was breaking up the smearing into a clear and defined "multi edge effect/ghosts". The increased notice-ability of the strobe somewhat "syncing" up to the 72Hz rate was absolutely the catalyst for the increased motion clarity. While a display may recalibrate the PWM for different refresh rates, the strobing of whatever you wave in front of the panel still has an increasingly noticeable level of difference the further you reduce the backlight setting. That increased strobe will also apparently impact image clarity provided you can get your display to the correct refresh rate to take advantage of it.
I wish I had some actual hard/scientific data" for the scenario with the Dell S2440L but, I don't. All I can say is overclocking the Dell S2440L with PWM to 72Hz then reducing the brightness down to 0, allowed me to read the at a tempo of 16 through 23 on the "readability test" in PixPerAn. With the Dell S2440L with PWM overclocked to 72Hz and the brightness set to 100, I could only read at a tempo of 6 to 7 on the "readability test" in PixPerAn. With the Dell S2440L with PWM at 60Hz and the brightness set anywhere from 100 to 0, I could only read at a tempo of 6 to 7 on the "readability test" in PixPerAn. While it certainly wasn't CRT, lighboost2, 120Hz territory, there was an unmistakable difference in motion clarity in both the car and readability tests in PixPerAn despite the overshoot and response times not really improving in the flag and chase tests in PixPerAn.
Right. I forgot that you had to turn it down to 0 brightness for the effect. S2440L also dim rather low, which means short duty cycle for better strobe effect.
You can probably not reproduce it on Benq models then.
The "dimness" wasn't an issue for me given I primarily have very little to no ambient lighting but, that is something I should have stressed in the conversation here as that can obviously be a fairly negative drawback if a lot of light is involved. Given that it's edge to edge glass and glossy though, I can't imagine anyone using it in an non controlled light environment. The ViewSonic VX2770SMH-LED got fairly dim as well at a brightness setting of 0 with a similar looking strobe but, I just could not get it to "sync" with a refresh rate. It looked like progress was getting made at 74Hz but, I lacked a dual link DVI-D cable (I really need to order one) to try higher. I have read that the ViewSonic VX2770SMH-LED will go up to 82Hz but, artifacts will appear. There is a chance the ViewSonic VX2770SMH-LED could have improved with a higher refresh rate but, it had some panel issues and the IPS glow required me to sit at least 3 to 4 feet back which I had no desire in doing.
I just pulled up the brightness levels for the BenQ GW2450HM at TFT Central and I have to agree with you that I don't think anyone can get a "sync" on it. I didn't realize the BenQ GW2450HM only went down to around 93.5 (cd/m2) at a brightness setting of 0. The Dell S2440L (non PWM) has around 91.44 (cd/m2) at a brightness setting of 30 and around 30.01 (cd/m2) at a brightness setting of 0. Based on that, I doubt anyone could get the full effect on their BenQ GW2450HM but, there was still improved motion clarity in PixPerAn on the Dell S2440L at a brightness setting of 30. It wasn't as good as a brightness setting of 0 but it was a clear improvement from a brightness setting of 100. This actually makes me wish that I still had it so that I could relay what the clarity actually looked like at a brightness setting of 30.
It still may be worth experimenting with the BenQ GW2450HM to see if any improvements could be made given that it already has better overdrive/RTC than the Dell S2440L does. I think it's really going to boil down to what the PWM duty cycle is, if a refresh rate can be found to "sync" with it, and if the brightness is "acceptable" for the usage conditions. Those are a lot of variables though and again, I think it was a fluke that the Dell S2440L was able to align those.
With Nvidia, you can do it via the video card control panel. With AMD, there is a program called CRU custom refresh utility)ToastyX wrote that will allow you to do it. There are also driver patches to bypass the pixel clock limits that AMD and Nivida have but, you won't get anywhere near those limits as they are around 330MHz (148.50Hz @1920x1080).
The process is pretty straight forward as you are really just filling in the blanks. However, what to put in said blanks can be a bit of a guessing game. I'm not sure about Nvidia but, if you use the CRU program, you will need to unplug the video cable from your monitor or the video card (it doesn't matter which) for 10 to 15 seconds to get the custom refresh rate to show up in the AMD CCC. Don't panic if your screen goes all black or an error message pops up on the monitor. Eventually the timer to confirm the change will count down and the selected refresh rate will switch back to it's default since you didn't click OK that you were fine with the changes.
The following video "tutorials" that HyperMatrix did are for overclocking the Korean monitors so don't use the numbers in them to fill in your blanks. You do not need to download anything in the video description as the files provided will be of no use with the GW2450HM. These are just to give you a general idea of what you will be doing:
AMD
Nvidia
On AMD, I've not had to alter the actual driver ".inf" file. I'm not sure if you will need to on Nvidia.
Thanks, I did it using CRU on my ATI. I was able to get my GW2450HM only to 71.4Hz. Also 48 Hz works fine (for smooth movies playback).
I found that the limit is 165 Hz on pixel clock and if I go higher, screen has artifacts and moving horizontal or vertical lines.
If I just copy and edit default settings, I can get max 66.6 Hz:
If I use "Automatic - Best for LCD", I can get 71.4 Hz:
I tried some values from other people that they used to get 72 or 75 Hz on different monitors, which I found on some forum, but I had horizontally moving white dots in the screen with those.
What values do you use for 72/75 Hz?
I also tried using a DVI cable that looks like dual-link (has all pins), but no improvement.
AMA (overdrive) seems to work fine on non-default frequency (means in the same way like on 60 Hz).
I found that the limit is 165 Hz on pixel clock and if I go higher, screen has artifacts and moving horizontal or vertical lines.
If I just copy and edit default settings, I can get max 66.6 Hz:
If I use "Automatic - Best for LCD", I can get 71.4 Hz:
I tried some values from other people that they used to get 72 or 75 Hz on different monitors, which I found on some forum, but I had horizontally moving white dots in the screen with those.
What values do you use for 72/75 Hz?
I also tried using a DVI cable that looks like dual-link (has all pins), but no improvement.
AMA (overdrive) seems to work fine on non-default frequency (means in the same way like on 60 Hz).
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This is what I was using on the Dell S2440L (via SL DVI-I>HDMI) and, am still using on the Dell U2311HM (via SL DVI-D>SL DVI-D):
You may need to change the actual refresh rate after the decimal though as monitors can be rather picky down to the 100th decimal place. The program will often round the decimal places as well. IIRC, I had to type in 71.925 in order to get it to be 71.927 as tping in 71.927 rounded up to 71.932 (or something to that affect). The timings may also not work since it's a different make/model. I used the same timings for 74Hz on the Dell S2440L. Those timings worked for an actual 72Hz as well.
There are also times when my Dell U2311HM wakes up and tosses up a "timing not supported" error which turning it off and back on fixes so, take that into consideration as you can have some "hiccups" despite it working fine in the OS.
You may need to change the actual refresh rate after the decimal though as monitors can be rather picky down to the 100th decimal place. The program will often round the decimal places as well. IIRC, I had to type in 71.925 in order to get it to be 71.927 as tping in 71.927 rounded up to 71.932 (or something to that affect). The timings may also not work since it's a different make/model. I used the same timings for 74Hz on the Dell S2440L. Those timings worked for an actual 72Hz as well.
There are also times when my Dell U2311HM wakes up and tosses up a "timing not supported" error which turning it off and back on fixes so, take that into consideration as you can have some "hiccups" despite it working fine in the OS.
It seems that this one doesn't work for BenQ too - I got horizontally moving white dots in the image too. Perhaps Benq is not able to handle so high refresh rate and max is 71.4 Hz...Which is still better than 60 Hz
It seems that this one doesn't work for BenQ too - I got horizontally moving white dots in the image too. Perhaps Benq is not able to handle so high refresh rate and max is 71.4 Hz...Which is still better than 60 Hz
Yea, sounds like it's going to artifact at anything higher.
Have you had a chance to look at the text and car in PixPerAn while overclocked with a reduced brightness to see if the motion clarity improves any?
I tried the moving text and car with brightness set to 10 (what I normally use), it was a bit more smooth because of the higher refresh rate, but I didn't observe any movement clarity improvement that could be caused by PWM strobing - I ended up on speed 10-11 on the moving text, like with 60 Hz.
So I returned GW2450HM back to the shop - it had too much ghosting, non-homogenous backlight and gamma shift in different colors.
I bought HP 23xi for about 150 €, I will see if I will get used to IPS glow So far no ghosting and more vivid colors than on Benq, design is quite nice, with thin frame (like LG IPS237L). It also runs at 75 Hz witout problems. OSD menu is easy to use, overdrive can be enabled/disabled in there. It has PWM too, but I don't know which frequency.
I bought HP 23xi for about 150 €, I will see if I will get used to IPS glow
So far no ghosting and more vivid colors than on Benq, design is quite nice, with thin frame (like LG IPS237L). It also runs at 75 Hz witout problems. OSD menu is easy to use, overdrive can be enabled/disabled in there. It has PWM too, but I don't know which frequency.Outbreaker
Limp Gawd
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The HP 23xi has more ghosting in every test that i saw.
I think you got a broken Monitor.
I think you got a broken Monitor.
Well, I saw other people on this and also another forum having the same ghosting with GW2450HM as I had. Moving a black object or text on warmer white color background produces noticeable yellow ghost, moving black object on skin color (e.g. head with black hair in a movie) makes red ghost. Just moving mouse over dark tone background (except pure black) produced also a little ghost. It is possible that different revisions of this monitor with different firmware behave differently (and I got a bad one), but I am definitely not the only one who experienced it.
Which tests of HP 23xi did you see? I didn't find many, it is still quite new monitor. In my case, I have almost no ghosting with HP 23xi with overdrive enabled (by default it is off) and moving objects in PixPerAn look much better than on Benq.
darkryoushii
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So guys, I gotta know. Should I or should I not buy two GW2460HM and chuck them on a VESA mounted arm.
I am a casual FPS gamer, casual RTS. Would go as far as to say 40% of my computer usage is gaming and 60% is general usage browsing, chatting etc. Nothing over the top that REQUIRES a nice screen but I do like vibrant (Samsung Galaxy S III kind of colors) saturated colors.
I currently have an AOC LED something something. It's not bad I like it, I haven't got ANY visible ghosting and would keep it if it had a vesa mount but alas it doesn't.
Also run a Retina Macbook Pro as my main laptop - have even taken it places and used it for gaming purposes without any noticeable ghosting though I wasn't looking for it and when I purchase these new monitors I definitely will be.
My two options are two GW2460HM's or two RL2450H FPS LED gaming monitors.
So guys, take your pick. This is probably biased but keep in mind I prefer performance over picture quality so if the TN option is slightly worse color reproduction for much faster response times/less ghosting, I will probably pick that one overall.
Thanks for your help!
I am a casual FPS gamer, casual RTS. Would go as far as to say 40% of my computer usage is gaming and 60% is general usage browsing, chatting etc. Nothing over the top that REQUIRES a nice screen but I do like vibrant (Samsung Galaxy S III kind of colors) saturated colors.
I currently have an AOC LED something something. It's not bad I like it, I haven't got ANY visible ghosting and would keep it if it had a vesa mount but alas it doesn't.
Also run a Retina Macbook Pro as my main laptop - have even taken it places and used it for gaming purposes without any noticeable ghosting though I wasn't looking for it and when I purchase these new monitors I definitely will be.
My two options are two GW2460HM's or two RL2450H FPS LED gaming monitors.
So guys, take your pick. This is probably biased but keep in mind I prefer performance over picture quality so if the TN option is slightly worse color reproduction for much faster response times/less ghosting, I will probably pick that one overall.
Thanks for your help!
darkryoushii
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you don't personally notice any ghosting? what about Portal 2 where if you strafe side to side while staring at the start level signs, the text trails very badly.
(sorry I just use that as my reference for ghosting whenever I look for monitors)
Ghosting? none. They have a very very very slight overdrive trailing which is barely noticable. And the're backlight bleed free too. Another VA plus.
Don't hold back. Get them. In my eyes VA is far better than IPS at this point and price range. Just look at the problems Dell users are having i feel sorry for them. And they pay premium!!!
Don't hold back. Get them. In my eyes VA is far better than IPS at this point and price range. Just look at the problems Dell users are having i feel sorry for them. And they pay premium!!!
darkryoushii
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alright I'm convinced.. getting them ASAP, possibly next week.
So if you will go for them, please report how does GW2460HM work for you. I bought GW2450GM about 2 weeks ago and I returned it because of quite bad ghosting/trailing issues, backlight uniformity (darker spots on the white screen) and gamma shift in different colors. Maybe I got some bad revision and hopefully they fixed those problems in GW2460...
But anyway, I would recommend rather some IPS screen (e.g. LG IPS235P) - it has more vibrant colors than A-MVA, better viewing angles, no ghosting if you choose a monitor with well implemented overdrive. You just need get used to IPS glow (black is really not black from angles), but MVA has gamma shift from angle, so nothing is perfect.
I have now HP 23xi for couple of days and I am more satisfied with it than with Benq (more vibrant colors, better response time). I played Counter Strike GO on it for a few hours in 1920x1080/75Hz and response time is very good. But it has no VESA mount holes.
If you do a lot of gaming and you can spend a bit more money, I would recommend you EIZO FS2333, which is really good gaming IPS monitor.