Amazon Pressuring Book Publishers?

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According to this article, Amazon is being accused of a "pressure campaign" to get better terms from book publishers by removing 5,000 electronic titles from its store.

"They wanted better margin and we were telling them what our terms were. So they took the titles off," according to Suchomel, who said the two sides had been talking for some time. "It is what it is. We're certainly not talking to them today. I hoped it would be otherwise but am not expecting it to happen anytime soon.
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I don't know about the rest of you, but I am awfully tired of finding paperback and hardback books for less than their e-reader cousins that are chocked full of spelling and grammar mistakes. My suspicion is Amazon would like to change that pricing scheme as well. It just doesn't make any sense for an electronic edition of a publication to cost more than a printed, physical copy.
 
I agree... I was very interested in getting an ereader a few months back, since I'm a religious book buyer to the point I have release dates put into google calendar so i'll get notification on my phone when it's time to go buy a new book. But then I discovered the prices of ebooks, it's bad enough I already pay 3-4$ more for a book just because i'm in canada (10.99 is average for paperback) .. but then they want even more if it's an ebook?
 
There are plenty of ways to get e-books without paying a fortune.

-Project Gutenberg
-Find the Amazon e-books being offered for free on eReaderIQ.com
-Borrow from your local library (if it supports Overdrive, which mine does)
-Borrow from Amazon Prime Kindle Owners Library
 
I believe e-books should be cheaper than hard cover. Amazon's management might want to read up on the book publishing industry but, they'll have to do it in hard cover. As an industry, I can think of no other that is as entrenched and hard nosed regarding publisher rights and profit than book publishers. They have carved their stance in stone for the last several hundred years. They care not one whit how much money Amazon represents.
 
Magnus said:
As an industry, I can think of no other that is as entrenched and hard nosed regarding publisher rights and profit than book publishers. They have carved their stance in stone for the last several hundred years. They care not one whit how much money Amazon represents.
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Same has been said about the music industry.
 
Walmart throws its weight around the same way.

As long as the savings get passed down to us consumers, I see this as a good thing.
 
I actually have prime but I choose to go nook because I don't like the idea of being locked into a (primarily) one-format-one-store ecosystem. I already get enough of that bs from itunes. I don't need the amazon charity one free book a month hand-me downs. I can get a ton of legit free epubs from my library and run them on my rooted nook with cryo. Oh and did I mention sd-card slot and calibre friendly formats. I like amazon but they have a long way to go before I buy any of their e-books.

Zap, the music industry market/audience and the book publishing market/audience with the exception of poor students are vastly different. Ihmo music is what I have on in the background and with the exception of a few jazz greats I feel little connection, hence very little loyalty, to the artists especially with the rise of singles and the death of the concept album. Good authors on the other hand, create an entire world that you can return to again and again and build up a loyal following (that will gladly pay to support their favorite author). Take, for example, the interaction between a fan who goes to a concert and fan who goes to a book signing/reading... when is the last time you heard of a musician sign copies of their cd's personally and field questions from the audience.
 
If Amazon drops major publishers, the authors under those publishers would be fools to not go to independent when the time arises. Far too many independent authors who were previously associated publishers find they make more money, have more control over the content, and generally have happier customers.

Plus one article I was reading says that many of the ebook releases have hardcopy terms associated with them in additional to media fees when the authors receive their royalties. Those percentages are something like 70-80% going to the publisher, with about 80% less fixed costs removing the physical goods. They still have editing costs, marketing, etc. But again on a service like Amazon they do what I would consider marketing of goods just by trying to point you to items similar to what you've shown interest in.

Publishers can keep screwing around like this for awhile, but soon I think they will find they can't hold authors because the author has to go where the audience is....and your audience is going to move to the stores that give them books in the format and price structure they want.

I don't know if we have any authors on this site, but I'd be really interested in hearing from one to weigh in on this. Especially if they're associated with publisher affiliated authors and they are independent or vice versa.
 
I am so fucking tired of big business in our country.

bring back states' rights and mom and pops ability to survive.

That is what made our country great, not walmart, and not fucking amazon.




All that said I am an amazon prime member and love the 2 day shipping.
 
I'm also curious about what writers' perspective is. I would imagine that eliminating one of the two middlemen would get more revenue to the writers, right?
 
fattypants said:
I'm also curious about what writers' perspective is. I would imagine that eliminating one of the two middlemen would get more revenue to the writers, right?
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That is the issue. Before, publishers and labels were required if you wanted to get your work out into the marketplace. That has changed with the internet age and these labels/publishers will do everything they can to try and keep the stranglehold. It's not just books but software, movies, music, TV, and just about any other work of art that previously required a middleman.
 
Eh, I wish Amazon actually had the e-books I was looking for. It sure would be nice not to have hardbacks everywhere.
 
stealthy123 said:
All that said I am an amazon prime member and love the 2 day shipping.
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Whoever thought up the free 2 day shipping idea at Amazon was pretty smart. It encourages customers to buy more shit and they get some upfront money. As a consumer though, it sort of narrows down your shopping options since you already have money invested in shipping.
 
This is actually a good thing. After Apple colluded with publishers to enter into the "agency pricing" model that fixed prices Amazon was no longer able to offer discounts. This of course was what Apple wanted, knowing they could no compete with Amazons clout in the book sector. Apple gets to continue to fuck their customers and dragged Kindle and Nook users along for the ride.
 
annasu said:
In response, most of the Big Six publishers — unhappy with the drastic discounts demanded by Amazon, and the technical limitations of the Kindle compared to other dvices — are pushing back, and urging Amazon to “adopt Apple’s model, which gives them less revenue in exchange for more control over retail pricing.” Some publishers are maintaining only month-to-month contracts with Amazon, waiting to see what develops. And some, “to avoid losing their current subscribers on the Kindle … are considering signing the new Amazon contract now and offering a free, limited application for their content on the iPad. At a later date, when an Amazon product can display richer types of media, publishers could release a paid product that looks and works the same across multiple devices.”
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And that is total FUD/BULLSHIT. For ebooks the kindle and other e-ink devices crush the iPad for actual reading. This has nothing to do with subscription content or rich multimedia. It has everything to do with charging $25 for an ebook to maintain price parity with the hardcover on launch day. By entering into the agency model, forced on them by Apple and their partners in the publishing industry, Amazon has lost the ability to deeply discount titles. That why in the kindle store in big bold letters it says "price set by publisher."

This is nothing more than price fixing and nerfing competition. It allowed apple to sell books through their own portal at prices they found more acceptable (the apple bend over premium) while neutralizing competition.

Fuck Apple.
 
While I agree that the pricing system for eBooks seems crazy, charging the same or more compared to a physical book, and part of me wants Amazon to win this on principle, I can't fault the publishers for charging what the market will bear (after all someone must be buying them at the current price)

That said, for me (and possibly a lot of other people too), even as someone who loves gadgets and technology, eBooks would have to get a lot cheaper for me to buy them over physical books.

Just last week I bought my first book in several years, I'd forgotten how much I love reading, and I finished it already. Because it's a paper book, I can now give or lend it to a friend and know they can enjoy it too. I know the publishers would rather I recommended my friend buy their own copy so I suppose I should be glad they seem to want to stifle the adoption of eBooks.
 
stealthy123 said:
I am so fucking tired of big business in our country.

bring back states' rights and mom and pops ability to survive.

That is what made our country great, not walmart, and not fucking amazon.
Click to expand...

I'd say what made our country great is not the mom and pop stores selling crap but rather having factories/companies building an manufacturing products post the workers-right movements, pre corporate outsourcing to third world countries in the name of 'profit'.
 
I think it's called doing 'business', or something like that... ahh umm, so Amazon squeezes their balls, and they are surprised it hurts.
I bet on Amazon on this one, they seem to be quite agile, and aggressive for such a large company.
 
Well, I meant in the sense of the digital version costs the same as a physical copy when there is no packaging or distro cost (other than server bandwidth).
 
Loudspeaker said:
I don't know about the rest of you, but I am awfully tired of finding paperback and hardback books for less than their e-reader cousins that are chocked full of spelling and grammar mistakes. My suspicion is Amazon would like to change that pricing scheme as well. It just doesn't make any sense for an electronic edition of a publication to cost more than a printed, physical copy.
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You're not alone, the editing for Amazon's e-Books seems to be pretty bad from my experience (~100 books).

Prices are all over the place, some coming down (1984 is now $6-something compared to $8 or $9 a few months back) and some are stupidly overpriced.

Seems like book publishers have squeezed the hardback/softcover model for so long that they're reluctant to let go. There are some authors or copyright holders that are dead set against the format, too, using priceless logic like this:

Sherman Alexie went on the Colbert Report to promote his book War Dances. He spent most of his time railing against e-books, first about the privacy implications of somebody having a record of your reading habits, then about the death of independent bookstores and finally about piracy. His nightmare scenario? What happened to the music industry. “Nobody makes money off their music anymore,” he said.
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Because music artists were treated so well before the internet was around. :rolleyes:
 
eggrock said:
Quote:
Sherman Alexie went on the Colbert Report to promote his book War Dances. He spent most of his time railing against e-books, first about the privacy implications of somebody having a record of your reading habits, then about the death of independent bookstores and finally about piracy. His nightmare scenario? What happened to the music industry. “Nobody makes money off their music anymore,” he said.
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Lol, I saw that interview. I think he is right on about privacy which is why I won't own a kindle even though I have prime. He is dead wrong about indie bookstores and piracy though. One: The problem with indie bookstores is shelf space (and the smell of patchouli, I kid I kid) some forward thinking bookstores in SF and Berkeley use e-books (in store and online) to save shelf space while promoting new authors that couldn't normally otherwise. Two: Piracy, I think most book consumers who read for pleasure don't mind supporting their favorite authors as they get older as opposed to music consumers.

Besides, "pirates gonna pirate" Alexie. What's next? Are you gonna waste valuable air time railing against xerox as well instead of talking about your book.
Stick to writing sophomoric hyper-masculine text you ass and leave the tech to people who know what they are doing.
 
Loudspeaker said:
I don't know about the rest of you, but I am awfully tired of finding paperback and hardback books for less than their e-reader cousins that are chocked full of spelling and grammar mistakes. My suspicion is Amazon would like to change that pricing scheme as well. It just doesn't make any sense for an electronic edition of a publication to cost more than a printed, physical copy.
Click to expand...

It insane...I finally got an e-reader, spent about $50 over the past week on some books...and the amount of spelling and typographical errors are embarrassing. And at higher cost than paper!!! Some reading revolution. So far, I am not impressed.
 
Monkey God said:
It insane...I finally got an e-reader, spent about $50 over the past week on some books...and the amount of spelling and typographical errors are embarrassing. And at higher cost than paper!!! Some reading revolution. So far, I am not impressed.
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Not that I don't believe you, and I understand how annoying that can be to a reader.. but why? I mean you would think that paper book is electronic before anything else, especially in this day and age.
 
Monkey God said:
It insane...I finally got an e-reader, spent about $50 over the past week on some books...and the amount of spelling and typographical errors are embarrassing. And at higher cost than paper!!! Some reading revolution. So far, I am not impressed.
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I love my Nook, but I still buy hardcover books instead of ebooks. The price-fixing scheme by the Agency 6 is atrocious...and the DRM. Ugh. I like to loan my book to a friend or my wife...

The few times I buy ebooks (rarely) I immediately strip the DRM, but I hate supporting DRM.

And as far as typos? Backlist titles are indeed kind of terrible. It's ironic, but a lot of times, the DRM gets stripped, and the pirate communities have corrected (or at least better) copies than the retail releases.
 
I think it is just crazy. Amazon is getting rid of 90% or more of their overhead so they can run basically all profit and royalties, but they want higher prices. They need to understand this is a new erra and stop thinking of things the old way. Amazon, Apple, and Google are creating a market where these companies can get products directly into the market at a fraction of the cost they normally take, but they still want full retail prices. Think... a soft cover might cost $2 to make, and another $2 in shipping, warehousing, distributing... and they sell it to Amazon for $6. They make only $2. The retail is $10, but Amazon sells it for $8 and also makes $2. Now you get a digital book that sells for the same $8. Amazon says you sell it to us for $4 and we make 2x as much and you make 2x as much. No they still want their $6 and they make 3x as much, but the author of the book still gets their fixed commission of likely $.25 This means the greedy publisher wants all the money. The same thing happened in the music industry with MP3 sales... except 100% was going to the RIAA to sue people and the musicians were getting no money.
 
Todd_a said:
This is the way it's always been, in America at least, and probably the world over. Business will take every cent they can, and screw over their employees and customers as much as they can. Nothing new under the sun.
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Read an article recently where a guy who was formerly a published author through a big 6 went self published....has been for 3-5 years now. And he sells more books than many of the NY Bestseller's according to his numbers and what they claim as the list sales.

He figured that off the retail price authors get about 14.9 percent of the sale price. That's when their contracts claim they will get 25% or something around there.

When he went self published, he was getting 70% of each sale, so if he lowered the price to sell more..he was still making a dollar or two MORE than he was under a publisher per sale.

The fixed cost of getting an ebook professionally covered, formatted for kindle/whatever and formatted for print (to go through Amazon print services) was $2000 on the high end. That is not counting the cost of actually writing the book, but otherwise covers the art work and formatting of the cover, formatting, and usually editing. He was selling something like 1200 ebooks a day, and 120 print versions of his 6-10 books he had on the market at the writing of the article.

And he was discussing this with a publisher house author who had just turned down half a million dollar deal because he figured he would make more, make it faster, with less wait time between finishing the book and releasing it if he self published.

Link to the discussion for those interested...it's really informative considering it covers both sides of the discussion more or less and why more authors are turning to self-publishing.....and why the publishers are doing all this crazy stuff.
http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2011/03/ebooks-and-self-publishing-dialog.html
 
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