Amazon CEO Andy Jassy threatens employees to return to office or "things are probably not going to work out for you"

[That_Sound_Guy]

I was sent back to work 3 days a week when Covid forced us all WFH. The thing I hate the most is going back to office is all the garbage conversations. Politics, religion, sports, etc etc. Leave me the hell alone. The people who bang on your desk when you have headphones on need to lose a hand. If not work related, lose the whole arm. Send me a message in chat, I’ll at least nicely ignore you there.

Also, personal hygiene collapsed for some people when we came back in. F’n gross.

 

[sharknice]

Companies in Silicon Valley and other super expensive places like Seattle are always going to want workers to come into the actual office.

The reason they're in crazy expensive places is because they think that physical location is important. If it wasn't imprortant to them they would have an office someplace cheaper, or just not have one.

 

[DukenukemX]

There is no doubt that most jobs do not require being in the office. As an employer, there is also no doubt most people are not responsible enough to actually do their job when not in the office. I want my employees to be happy, but frankly their happiness is secondary to their ability to be productive. All of my employees would be happier if we had a 2 day work week - but I don't do that because it wouldn't make the company more money.

If an employee isn't doing their job then you fire them, but that's not the case here. The issue is how much productivity you can extract from said employee. Because there's no rule to firing someone unless they're in a union, so it's easy to make up a productivity requirement. Cities mandate this the most due to the loss of property tax revenue. It's just employers being greedy.

View: https://youtu.be/Yafvra3AN4g?si=ja5uyHzfsRtcknvC

 

[LukeTbk]

Cities mandate this the most due to the loss of property tax revenue. It's just employers being greedy.

It is employer being greedy to pay office rents, parking, etc.. ? versus saving a lot of money by having employee pay for all working space ?

I am not sure I understand this. In the sense, they get much more work from a employee that is on location ? And that make them greedy ?

 

[deepinya]

Amazon needs to cut its workforce anyway. They hired like 800k people since covid.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I’ve worked from home for most of the last 10 years, with a couple of brief stints at companies where I would go into an office most of the time. I agree with most of the comments here. My thoughts:

1. For me, I need to be able to concentrate for long stretches without interruptions. WFH is perfect for me. I do tend to work longer hours from home due to lack of commute and sometimes encountering an issue I’m obsessed with solving. Due to workload, I’ve been having a lot of 12+ hour workdays lately. I will no longer put 12+ hour days in at an office.

2. I’m a consultant so COVID killed travel for client meetings and it has never really recovered since most clients have decided Zoom or Teams works well enough to avoid paying our travel costs. My company gets the added benefit of me being able to juggle more projects since I’m not stuck at a customer site for days on end.

3. Ironically, the two brief stints I had where I needed to go into an office were probably jobs which would’ve benefited more from me working from home. I was really the only person in the particular role so daily, in-person collaboration wasn't necessary. I’d sit at a desk with my earbuds in or go find an empty conference room in the conference center so I could try to have a quiet place to work. Also, my policy is that if I have to go into an office, my day ends at 5 PM - no exceptions. I’m going home because I CAN work remotely in the evening if needed.

4. In my role, it’s super easy to tell who isn’t doing their work and they don’t last long. A couple years ago, we hired a guy who interviewed very well. Once he started, he’d disappear for long stretches or, on multiple occasions, have last second “dental” or “doctor” visits. It was super obvious to everyone except my boss that this guy was working multiple jobs and double/triple dipping. She (the boss) finally pressured him to step up his game after multiple complaints and he resigned, saying it ”wasn’t a good fit.” She still insist it was just a mismatch of expectations, but the rest of us knew what was going on.

5. I think the majority of people probably aren’t suited to work from home. Nothing wrong with mowing the lawn at lunch or putting in a load of laundry during the day, but some of these people treat their job as a hobby or inconvenience getting in the way of their chores. And yes, even “senior leadership“ has people like this. I also want to punch someone when I have a call and there is a screaming kid in the background, dogs barking right next to the phone, or someone not good with mute and they’re having side conversations. And webcams? Turn that crap off - staring at faces is a distraction. Pay attention to my screen share and ask questions.

 

[paradoxical]

If an employee isn't doing their job then you fire them, but that's not the case here. The issue is how much productivity you can extract from said employee. Because there's no rule to firing someone unless they're in a union, so it's easy to make up a productivity requirement. Cities mandate this the most due to the loss of property tax revenue. It's just employers being greedy.

View: https://youtu.be/Yafvra3AN4g?si=ja5uyHzfsRtcknvC

For entry level positions if I fired everyone who wasn't doing their job from home I would not have any employees. I don't think you understand how dire the situation is to find people that aren't stupid/irresponsible/have anxiety issues. Pre-pandemic, I was offering $45k for entry level support positions where the only task is to respond to email customer inquiries. I was flooded with candidates and a couple of them were rockstars who worked their way up to $100k leadership positions.

During the pandemic, I was offering $55k for full WFH, 4 weeks vacation, no drug testing, cadillac benefits, 401k, no degree required, and the quality of people just plummeted. It hasn't returned either - I am now offering $60k (bumped it $5k since it's in office) for someone to literally sit in an air conditioned office and answer emails but my God, everyone has "mental health issues" and magically need time off every Friday and Monday. It's absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Och]

For entry level positions if I fired everyone who wasn't doing their job from home I would not have any employees. I don't think you understand how dire the situation is to find people that aren't stupid/irresponsible/have anxiety issues. Pre-pandemic, I was offering $45k for entry level support positions where the only task is to respond to email customer inquiries. I was flooded with candidates and a couple of them were rockstars who worked their way up to $100k leadership positions.

During the pandemic, I was offering $55k for full WFH, 4 weeks vacation, no drug testing, cadillac benefits, 401k, no degree required, and the quality of people just plummeted. It hasn't returned either - I am now offering $60k (bumped it $5k since it's in office) for someone to literally sit in an air conditioned office and answer emails but my God, everyone has "mental health issues" and magically need time off every Friday and Monday. It's absolutely ridiculous.

I don't hire anyone under 35, and much prefer not to hire anyone born in the US. The BS is just out of hand.

 

[paradoxical]

I don't hire anyone under 35, and much prefer not to hire anyone born in the US. The BS is just out of hand.

I am a millennial and used to make fun of boomers all the time for basically ruining the world, but post-pandemic I have come to appreciate that at least the boomers that work for me actually show up to work. They do have issues with technology that is sometimes difficult to overcome, but they are trying at least instead of taking mental health days to get long weekends.

My most recent hire for an entry level position has a military background and he has been a rockstar so far. He is making the rest of the support staff look bad because he plows through tickets so fast, comes up with great ideas in meetings, etc. It's been fun to watch the rest of them get nervous and actually start performing better. Hiring people with military backgrounds may be a new strategy of mine, though that also does come with issues depending on the person's experience.

 

[M76]

I have been working from home since the lockdowns. Upper management tried to coerce me back to the office more than once, but middle management who sees the benefits of working from home always overrule them.
Just in the past 24 hours I saved the company 16 hours in lead time. By logging into my work computer at odd hours to do tasks that allowed the processing to enter its next phase. I started one 8 hour task at 17:00 and another at around midnight. f I was forced back to the office the first task would've remained unstarted until the next morning until after I arrived at the office. After which I'd have spent 8 hours staring at a wall, then went home.

Sure not all tasks are like this, this is an extreme example. But the point is that in the office you can't adopt, you are inflexible. At home you can always adopt to the task at hand, there were projects where I didn't stand up for 6 hours straight from my desktop, something that would be unthinkable in the office.

 

[sc5mu93]

I am a millennial and used to make fun of boomers all the time for basically ruining the world, but post-pandemic I have come to appreciate that at least the boomers that work for me actually show up to work. They do have issues with technology that is sometimes difficult to overcome, but they are trying at least instead of taking mental health days to get long weekends.

WTF are “mental health days?” Never heard of this. Is it like sick days for people with schizophrenia? Might be showing my age here…

 

[Och]

I am a millennial and used to make fun of boomers all the time for basically ruining the world, but post-pandemic I have come to appreciate that at least the boomers that work for me actually show up to work. They do have issues with technology that is sometimes difficult to overcome, but they are trying at least instead of taking mental health days to get long weekends.

My most recent hire for an entry level position has a military background and he has been a rockstar so far. He is making the rest of the support staff look bad because he plows through tickets so fast, comes up with great ideas in meetings, etc. It's been fun to watch the rest of them get nervous and actually start performing better. Hiring people with military backgrounds may be a new strategy of mine, though that also does come with issues depending on the person's experience.

That is a good idea, but the military is also going south.

 

[Furious_Styles]

WTF are “mental health days?” Never heard of this. Is it like sick days for people with schizophrenia? Might be showing my age here…

Basically just a rebadge of sick days.

 

[Darunion]

WTF are “mental health days?” Never heard of this. Is it like sick days for people with schizophrenia? Might be showing my age here…

I took one monday actually, night before wife an i were told we would not be getting our embryo transfer done and it might be 6months later than scheduled (so another prolly $5k out of pocket and delay) and house had no power for 4 straight days. We decided fuck work for a day and stayed home.

Mental health day.

My old job would require a doctor note if you called in for a sick day so we started calling them this so we didn't have to deal with that. Basically a none of your business why I wont be in today. Sometimes shit comes up you have to deal with at home, easier to just say taking a mental health day. Same place if you called off sick and someone saw you out and about you would get written up for it.

 

[Westwood]

WTF are “mental health days?” Never heard of this.

I work 38h a week in an 82º enclosed space with all menopausal women and no windows.

 

[1_rick]

It is employer being greedy to pay office rents, parking, etc.. ?

Most offices could probably stand to be out in a suburb of a big city instead of downtown, or even in a smaller city, and save a lot on rent.

 

[1_rick]

everyone has "mental health issues"

The zombie apocalypse will solve a lot of those problems.

 

[A I]

The zombie apocalypse will solve a lot of those problems.

What if we end up with zombies with mental health issues?

 

[Sir Beregond]

Sure am glad my company decided to move my office to wfh 2 years before the Coof.

They closed our local office because nobody and I mean next to absolutely nobody went back in when it reopened. So they said, hey there's lease money we don't need to spend and people working from home has worked really well for us overall. I am sure there have been some exceptions, but we haven't really skipped a beat since March 2020 sent us all home.

Honestly I am sure a lot of it comes down to industry, what you are working on, and whether we are talking main corporate offices or satellite offices that are less important. We were a main office for a segment of the business, but just that, a segment. All the big stuff is two timezones away and I can tell you those folks are being forced back into 2-3 day a week hybrid.

 

[maddude]

My industry was mostly work from home prior to the pandemic. Due to legacy requirements, I still had to go into the home office even though the rest of my team was spread across the country. I haven't had a manager in the same state, let alone in the office, for over a decade. In my experience, if an employee is goofing off at home and doesn't get their work done, it would be the same in the office. They were just able to mask it by appearing busy by scheduling meetings and talking to people at their desks. Talent acquisition has been much easier since switching to an entire work from home model. My talent pool is now nationwide and I don't have to consider relocation costs in the job offer.

As for the generations debate... I am sick of working with older gen x'ers and the remaining boomers who wax poetic about "the way things used to be" even though the workflow, process, and world have changed three times over. They stand in the way of improvements and changes in technology and are generally disengaging to the entire team. I'm all for moving the retirement age to 50 to get rid of them.

 

[socK]

WTF are “mental health days?” Never heard of this. Is it like sick days for people with schizophrenia? Might be showing my age here…

You've never woken up and been like "I think I'm gonna jerk it, go for a fuckin hike, then kill an entire container of moose tracks ice cream when I get back"

that's a mental health day

 

[TheHig]

The tone of your statement is hilariously the same as boomers vs everything. Instead of “those damn kids!” It’s “those damn old people!” *shakes fist at clouds… you have ascended. Lmao.

I’m a Gen Xer two years away from 50 and I would retire right fucking now if I still didn’t have kids to provide for. Got my spot in woods and plans for a small cabin ready to go. I’ll happily hand over the reigns to the next people up…. Unfortunately it’s another decade or two on the hamster wheel for me!

As for the generations debate... I am sick of working with older gen x'ers and the remaining boomers who wax poetic about "the way things used to be" even though the workflow, process, and world have changed three times over. They stand in the way of improvements and changes in technology and are generally disengaging to the entire team. I'm all for moving the retirement age to 50 to get rid of them.

 

[DukenukemX]

For entry level positions if I fired everyone who wasn't doing their job from home I would not have any employees.

Sounds like a problem beyond working from home.

I don't think you understand how dire the situation is to find people that aren't stupid/irresponsible/have anxiety issues. Pre-pandemic, I was offering $45k for entry level support positions where the only task is to respond to email customer inquiries. I was flooded with candidates and a couple of them were rockstars who worked their way up to $100k leadership positions.

During the pandemic, I was offering $55k for full WFH, 4 weeks vacation, no drug testing, cadillac benefits, 401k, no degree required, and the quality of people just plummeted. It hasn't returned either - I am now offering $60k (bumped it $5k since it's in office) for someone to literally sit in an air conditioned office and answer emails but my God, everyone has "mental health issues" and magically need time off every Friday and Monday. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Part of the reason this is no longer the case is due to people leaving populated areas which demand high rent. Wasn't uncommon to see people losing more than half their pay to rent an apartment they had to share with someone. So they either worked or they became homeless. During the pandemic you see people buying homes like crazy, and the cost of living in some of these homes is 1/5 that of an apartment in major cities. So their income requirements are not as high as before. Willing to bet that a good number of people changed their focus more on themselves than on their work.

It also didn't help that during the pandemic a lot of employers fired people who were once told they are part of a family. So it gave employees a very different perspective in how valuable they are. My cousin a mechanic wasn't getting paid well before the pandemic and he left for another position who also paid him poorly. The previous employer hired new blood and they constantly screwed things up, like hooking a battery charger backwards and forgetting to put motor oil in the engine. My cousin had no idea how many bad mechanics were out there, and I told him ask for more money. He got it. Of the employees you hired to answer emails, how many of them know how to properly type on a keyboard? I bet they all type with their index fingers, and barely even. I bet they need to look at their keyboard while using their index fingers to type. Turns out the stuff we used to take for granted is no longer for granted. The people who know how to do things, know they are worth more, and other businesses agree because someone else hired them. You're upset because increased pay is the only way to get hires. Welcome to capitalism.

 

[StoleMyOwnCar]

You've never woken up and been like "I think I'm gonna jerk it, go for a fuckin hike, then kill an entire container of moose tracks ice cream when I get back"

that's a mental health day

That just sounds like a PTO day. If your manager is a decent, hands off manager, and you work in a task-focused space... taking random PTOs (or even a week with fairly short notice) isn't a big deal, as long as you have vacation allowance.

If your manager sucks, it is a big deal because they're horribly disorganized and probably allocate their work force terribly, so every team is working in a "barely got it done" fashion and you can't be absent

As for the generations debate... I am sick of working with older gen x'ers and the remaining boomers who wax poetic about "the way things used to be" even though the workflow, process, and world have changed three times over. They stand in the way of improvements and changes in technology and are generally disengaging to the entire team. I'm all for moving the retirement age to 50 to get rid of them.

Agree with this. I'm also getting (well no, not "getting", I have been for a long time) sick of people just acting like every new generation is "worse" than the previous because of some *insert some dumb qualifier here*. Let's get something straight. Every generation that occurred before the current one is at least partially responsible for the state of the current one. Trash back then created trash now, and trash existed in every generation. Unless you're saying that every kid just randomly got dropped off of a cliff and had to survive in the concrete jungle by themselves unsupervised and is just wholly responsible for all of their actions throughout the whole time (in which case you're still a terrible parent, just in another way)... every previous generation is in some manner responsible for the upbringing and environment of the current one. You can't just raise your hands and go, "well kids suck these days lol". We're all organisms and we tend to adapt to survive somehow in the environment we're in. Our base needs and wants tend to be similar, as animals. The environment is much different than it was a long time ago. People are dealing with a completely different set of stressors. I doubt any newer gen just woke up and went "Hey I wonder how I can intentionally be less responsible and more useless today".

Like case in point, companies are just coldly and calmly mass cutting workforces (partially with "return to work in another state lol" and partially with other methods) and then also trying to do it in a way that doesn't give severance pay, and they're mainly targeting older individuals (but everyone is at risk, with basically no rhyme or reason to the decisionmaking). I know because I work in a large company that is doing this. You expect younger generations to learn something about loyalty and responsibility from that? No. They learn "this company doesn't give a shit about me and I shouldn't give a shit about it". Why would you actually put in any more than necessary when it doesn't matter? Why would they even stay with the company? When it wasn't a meritocracy to begin with? When they would get more money by simply switching companies?

Companies are hilarious when you have these idiots in senior leadership rambling about this "younger generation is so <something>" bullshit while refusing to get with the times and then turning around and enforcing their layoff policies and then taking stupid risks that tank the company value anyway, and acting like they should be excused from any ramifications because, "Well I'm just taking necessary risks". Okay but if you suck at it, maybe YOU should get laid off instead? You sure are paid a hell of a fucking lot to suck ass at your job, making shitty decisions that get other people axed. I also wonder how many managers could actually learn to more effectively manage their remote workforces, eliminating any real need or excuse for them to slack, rather than going to the old method that wastes tons of gasoline, rents out pointless space, and probably causes more trash buildup and deleterious planetary effects than anything. The only reason I've stuck with my company for 10 years is because I generally like my immediate managers and coworkers, and how I'm free to take days off and slack when there's absolutely nothing going on (which makes sense; I'm task-oriented, and I get my work done much faster than my coworkers). The corporation? I couldn't give two shits about it. It can go fuck itself. Thanks.

I guess that's my rant of the day. I didn't really mean to get incensed while writing it, but I guess this opinion has wanted to come out of me for a while and it ended up a bit heated. I also didn't mean to imply that old people were bad; the boomers and older people that I work with in my immediate org have all been great, reasonable people.

 

[TheHig]

The good things that came out of the pandemic disruptions such as a cleaner environment, less traffic, people really starting to address proper work life balance are slowly being steered back to the old ways all in the name of profits. Same as always. It so if all the Covid shenanigans weren’t enough for lasting change then it’s likely going to take a long time to get some middle ground between the labor the the people that exploit it.

Also look before I get called a commie or worse a socialist .. Profit is fine. The issue is not sharing enough of it worth those responsible for making it happen. At my company —All of the senior leadership worked at home during the lockdowns and insisted the middle management and down kept reporting to the office. We have not forgotten that and loyalty is worthless. Paychecks are king.

 

[maddude]

The tone of your statement is hilariously the same as boomers vs everything. Instead of “those damn kids!” It’s “those damn old people!” *shakes fist at clouds… you have ascended. Lmao.

I’m a Gen Xer two years away from 50 and I would retire right fucking now if I still didn’t have kids to provide for. Got my spot in woods and plans for a small cabin ready to go. I’ll happily hand over the reigns to the next people up…. Unfortunately it’s another decade or two on the hamster wheel for me!

No arguments here. I just got finished taking a company car away due to a drunk driving incident and the employee was a very loud spoken 57 year old who hates millennials. He had the nerve to argue that it used to be ok to have some drinks at lunch but the youth have ruined it.

 

[A I]

No arguments here. I just got finished taking a company car away due to a drunk driving incident and the employee was a very loud spoken 57 year old who hates millennials. He had the nerve to argue that it used to be ok to have some drinks at lunch but the youth have ruined it.

Wolf of Wall Street taught me that anything less than 3 martinis and an 8 ball of coke for lunch are rookie numbers, and I need to pump those things up.

 

[Westwood]

He had the nerve to argue that it used to be ok to have some drinks at lunch but the youth have ruined it.

I worked for my grandfather when I was twelve helping build houses. Lunch time he'd take out me for pizza. I'd have a soda and he's have two Millers before we headed back to the site.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

The good things that came out of the pandemic disruptions such as a cleaner environment, less traffic, people really starting to address proper work life balance are slowly being steered back to the old ways all in the name of profits. Same as always. It so if all the Covid shenanigans weren’t enough for lasting change then it’s likely going to take a long time to get some middle ground between the labor the the people that exploit it.

Also look before I get called a commie or worse a socialist .. Profit is fine. The issue is not sharing enough of it worth those responsible for making it happen. At my company —All of the senior leadership worked at home during the lockdowns and insisted the middle management and down kept reporting to the office. We have not forgotten that and loyalty is worthless. Paychecks are king.

That's exactly the thing.

Profit incentives are a great motivator. That's why capitalism is so good at driving strong economies, and why planned economies - well - eventually fail.

But the side effect of that is, the fight for work life balance and greater quality of life for employees will never just win,= such that it is over and done with, and everyone can move on to think about other things. There may be occasional wins, but the profit incentive doesn't just stop when there are. The immediately continue to chip away at them bit by bit. The profit incentive will incessantly continue to chip away at things night and day for all of eternity, so if you want to maintain balance for those who are not owners/investors you have to be prepared for a constant, never ending tug of war from now until the day you die.

Most people don't have the energy for this, which is why the monied interests usually win in the long term.

Profit incentive is critical to a successful economy, but it does come with some unpleasant side effects that in many parts of the west we havn't quite figured out how to counter-balance effectively yet. They do better in some parts of western Europe, but even there it is a constant fight to maintain what they have achieved and protect it from the constant chipping away over time. They seem to be better at the protection part though, possibly because the working classes there have achieved better balance through regulation over the years, and thus have more free energy to carry out the fight.

In conclusion. Capitalism is awesome. It is one of the biggest reasons why life in the west is better than most other places, but just about anyhting can exist in states of being "too much", which is why a balance must exist, and there must be people with the energy to constantly fight for that balance or it will be lost.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I worked for my grandfather when I was twelve helping build houses. Lunch time he'd take out me for pizza. I'd have a soda and he's have two Millers before we headed back to the site.

You know. I don't know how people did this in the past.

I'm a big guy, and I can drink most under the table, but if I have just 1 to 3 drinks and then stop drinking for several hours, I'll be dozing off in no time. Once I start, I need to keep nursing on that booze until bedtime, or bedtime will come find me wherever I am.

It doesn't exactly sound like a recipe for productivity. (or great decision-making)

 

[Westwood]

In conclusion. Capitalism is awesome. It is one of the biggest reasons why life in the west is better than most other places, but just about anyhting can exist in states of being "too much", which is why a balance must exist, and there must be people with the energy to constantly fight for that balance or it will be lost.

Capitalism, God's way of determining who is smart, and who is poor.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Capitalism, God's way of determining who is smart, and who is poor.

I tend to think of it as the best way ever devised to grow wealth, but that sometimes there is more to life than just working oneself to death maximizing profit.

As such I see capitalism not as an "all or nothing" proposition, but rather something you utilize in balance with other measures to create a happy, productive and well rested population that can also enjoy life in addition to maximizing profit.

It would take some level of extreme autistic obsession to want to maximize profit all day and night at the expense of everyone and everything else in ones life. Striking that balance is the difficult part.

Also, where that balance lies is where most political/economical arguments take place. Very few want 100% capitalism, or 100% planned economy, but we differ wildly on where the proper balance of the two lies.

 

[Westwood]

You know. I don't know how people did this in the past.

I'm a big guy, and I can drink most under the table, but if I have just 1 to 3 drinks and then stop drinking for several hours, I'll be dozing off in no time. Once I start, I need to keep nursing on that booze until bedtime, or bedtime will come find me wherever I am.

It doesn't exactly sound like a recipe for productivity. (or great decision-making)

I'm the same way. I never drink. One beer and I'm done for. I have a lot of strict rules for drinking too.

Pepere was 6'6 and 310lbs. He'd have lunch and two beers at Lou's then go back to work.

There are...12(?) full neighborhoods and something like 85 houses in my home town that were built because of him. Built his first house at 15. He was still roofing at 81.

 

[sfsuphysics]

There are some interesting parallels here, where customer service jobs were largely all pushed to call centers, and then off shore to call centers because hey "it's the same level of effectiveness" (it really wasn't) and you dont need the office space and other things like insurance for your workers so working outside the office for that job was completely acceptable. Now there are workers who want to work outside the office and they are being threatened to come back, now whether or not they do the same exact amount and quality of work is up for debate but it seems that of that's even close to being true they should close down the office space and all the costs associated with it, get a fucking big billboard of you need to advertise your company name

 

[sc5mu93]

I worked for my grandfather when I was twelve helping build houses. Lunch time he'd take out me for pizza. I'd have a soda and he's have two Millers before we headed back to the site.

gramps was missing a few fingers too.

 

[Joust]

Capitalism, God's way of determining who is smart, and who is poor.

Yeah, but actually no.

I know VERY wealthy people that aren’t that bright, but had other advantages; I know very modest wealth people that are brilliant.

One can be, but is (significantly) not always related to the other.

 

[sharknice]

Yeah, but actually no.

I know VERY wealthy people that aren’t that bright, but had other advantages; I know very modest wealth people that are brilliant.

One can be, but is (significantly) not always related to the other.

IQ has around a .4 correlation coefficient to wealth according to most studies.

Someone's drive is a much bigger factor.
If you don't put the effort in it doesn't matter how smart you are. And sometimes if you put in enough effort it doesn't matter how stupid you are.

 

[Vermillion]

I'm a tad indifferent to what Amazon is doing because I understand why and I can't disagree in some ways. Now I'll fully admit I didn't read all of the comments on the thread. However, here's my two cents on how I see things here in the DC Metro area.

We have quite a few "major" cities around here, so we're definitely seeing the office buildings take a serious hit. This certainly is on the mind of a company when they're paying out the yin yang for real estate and nobody there working. They want butts in the seat to justify the cost of that lease which is typically minimum 5 years around here. If you're lucky maybe you can get out early after 3.

WFH has it's place. I was working fully remote even before COVID hit. I've been pretty much fully remote since 2019. Recently I'm in a more hybrid approach after I switched jobs back in October, but I only go into the office generally once a week.

That said there are big differences in how the two jobs compare when you look at the work from home mentality. The first job never used cameras. So you just stared at a shitty, grainy picture of the person or the persons initials. That was horrible. You develop ZERO relationship with those people. When I left I was happy to see it go because I was honestly pretty lonely while at work. I didn't really have anybody I would call a "friend" at that place. I simply stared at a screen all day.

The current job requires cameras when possible. If you don't use it one day because you just rolled out of bed they don't mind, but it's night and day in terms of the relationship with these people. Seeing their faces and reactions to things makes a world of difference.

A company can find a happy balance. They just need to put forth the effort to find that balance.

Oh, there's on other reason why companies are requiring butts in seats more and more and it's never really talked about. More and more people are now working multiple full time jobs. They're not really working 16 hours a day but they're getting paid for it. I have heard quite a few stories from friends about how they've found that at their jobs. We've found this situation where I work now at least 3 times already. We've fired all 3 and I know 2 of the 3 were also fired from their other job. Just last week we fired a 4th person. They were working 3...yes THREE full time jobs.

As always asshats who take advantage are why we can't have nice things.

 

[DukenukemX]

We have quite a few "major" cities around here, so we're definitely seeing the office buildings take a serious hit. This certainly is on the mind of a company when they're paying out the yin yang for real estate and nobody there working. They want butts in the seat to justify the cost of that lease which is typically minimum 5 years around here. If you're lucky maybe you can get out early after 3.

Their problem, just like it was the employees problem when they had no work during the pandemic. City life for a lot of people sucks and it generally costs more than living in a house.

That said there are big differences in how the two jobs compare when you look at the work from home mentality. The first job never used cameras. So you just stared at a shitty, grainy picture of the person or the persons initials. That was horrible. You develop ZERO relationship with those people. When I left I was happy to see it go because I was honestly pretty lonely while at work. I didn't really have anybody I would call a "friend" at that place. I simply stared at a screen all day.

This is fine for some people. You may not want to develop a relationship as it can get you fired. I don't mean like having a sexual one, but like you say something to someone and they take it the wrong way, and then you're fired for it. Especially if you switch jobs often for better pay or less work, you really don't care to develop relationships. The whole mentality of "you're in a family" and learning to develop bounds with people so you're less likely to leave this job, is a crutch.

The current job requires cameras when possible. If you don't use it one day because you just rolled out of bed they don't mind, but it's night and day in terms of the relationship with these people. Seeing their faces and reactions to things makes a world of difference.

A camera on the entire time working? I don't see how that helps an employee at all, nor do I see anyone actually looking at the footage.

Oh, there's on other reason why companies are requiring butts in seats more and more and it's never really talked about. More and more people are now working multiple full time jobs. They're not really working 16 hours a day but they're getting paid for it. I have heard quite a few stories from friends about how they've found that at their jobs. We've found this situation where I work now at least 3 times already. We've fired all 3 and I know 2 of the 3 were also fired from their other job. Just last week we fired a 4th person. They were working 3...yes THREE full time jobs.

I don't see a problem with this. If they did their jobs, as in completed their tasks, then what's the problem? The problem is you can make them do more work. When I do a job quickly then that's not to your benefit, but mine. That's years worth of experience at play. You go by hours, not work done. This is the reason why employers hate work from home, because they don't know you have a script that does the task instantly when they expect you to take hours. If they knew, they just put more work onto you. Also, if they're working multiple jobs then that means you aren't paying them well enough. You see a Doctor or lawyer working multiple jobs? No, because they get paid very well. Chances are your company is so disorganized that they don't know their employees are working multiple jobs. How long did it take for anyone to figure this out? I'm sure it took a while.

 

[Och]

As a 45yo genXer, I generally can't stand US born boomers and millennials, and zoomers are a lost cause whatsoever.