AM2 - 65W X2 4000+ or 89W X2 3800+

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Askanison

Limp Gawd
Joined
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AM2 - 65W X2 4000+ 2x1MB L2 or 89W X2 3800+ 2x512KB for U$380 and U$170 respectively. Which one is more worth it.., or able to overclock better or have better performance? Opinions?
 
Twice as much for a processor with mildly better themrals and more cache is a bit outrageous if you ask me.
 
Or you might try to find one of the newer AM2 3800s that run on 35w...don't know if they are available yet, but they look sweet. Depends on the price they want, and will they OC worth a damn?
 
coldpower27 said:
Twice as much for a processor with mildly better themrals and more cache is a bit outrageous if you ask me.
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Why is that outrageous?

If they rank the chips coming out of the fab, they would normally do it by max speed at a particular reliability and particular voltage. We normally pay a premium for the faster chips with this formula.

What if they change the formula and run the better chips at a lower voltage and lower speed and same reliability? You ought to pay a similiar premium. Maybe the 65W 3800 is the same chip as an 89W 4400, but with different voltage and multiplier.

Personally, I think you should choose the best multiplier for your needs, considering the memory you have and its max speed.
 
venm11 said:
Why is that outrageous?

If they rank the chips coming out of the fab, they would normally do it by max speed at a particular reliability and particular voltage. We normally pay a premium for the faster chips with this formula.

What if they change the formula and run the better chips at a lower voltage and lower speed and same reliability? You ought to pay a similiar premium. Maybe the 65W 3800 is the same chip as an 89W 4400, but with different voltage and multiplier.

Personally, I think you should choose the best multiplier for your needs, considering the memory you have and its max speed.
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It still is way too much, considering Conroe will come in with a 65W TDP for 316US at much greater performance levels.

Not to mention this is moot probably as the 2x1MB chips are on their way out.
 
coldpower27 said:
It still is way too much, considering Conroe will come in with a 65W TDP for 316US at much greater performance levels.

Not to mention this is moot probably as the 2x1MB chips are on their way out.
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What are you basing the performance *or* pricing comparison on?

Why is phasing out 2x1mb chips moot?

What's important is how much performance you get for a given $$, right? Even if conroe is that much better, AMD can still level the playing field by price-cutting everything so the same person can afford a higher-end chip. As can intel. So really, overall there will be very little difference, it's the particular characteristics or advantages in particular scenarios that will vary.
 
Bill Clo said:
Or you might try to find one of the newer AM2 3800s that run on 35w...don't know if they are available yet, but they look sweet. Depends on the price they want, and will they OC worth a damn?
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they are not as sweet as they seem to be i had a 3800 and 4600 of the low watt versions both OC'd about the same nothing impressive from either and both had about the same headroom for OC even once you gave them some volts to work with.

but if you want to run them at native speeds they rock the 3800 is like 1.125 volts
 
venm11 said:
What are you basing the performance *or* pricing comparison on?

Why is phasing out 2x1mb chips moot?

What's important is how much performance you get for a given $$, right? Even if conroe is that much better, AMD can still level the playing field by price-cutting everything so the same person can afford a higher-end chip. As can intel. So really, overall there will be very little difference, it's the particular characteristics or advantages in particular scenarios that will vary.
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They are but they still won't be competitive performance wise after the price cuts, 1 the 2x1Mb parts under 500US are gettingp phase out, only 2.6GHZ 2x1Mb parts or higher will remain. It's unlikely you will be able to buy this processor anyway for too long.

As well Core 2 Duo E6600 is on par with Athlno FX 62 performance and it has a 65W standard at 316US no less, so it will have better value regardless.
 
3800 x2 low power's retail is $323, quite a bit of a hite from the standard $168. last i heard the low powers were not going to be reduced at all.
 
The price cuts havent even happened yet. We don't know whether or not the low voltage x2 3800 will be reduced as well.
 
last i heard is that they were not going to be reduced

AMD7-24pricing.png
 
Those price cuts just make me want Conroe more, what with it still holding price:performance:power crown after them.
 
coldpower27 said:
They are but they still won't be competitive performance wise after the price cuts, 1 the 2x1Mb parts under 500US are gettingp phase out, only 2.6GHZ 2x1Mb parts or higher will remain. It's unlikely you will be able to buy this processor anyway for too long.
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You do realize that cache size hardly matters with the A64 chips, right? :rolleyes:
cr0w said:
Those price cuts just make me want Conroe more, what with it still holding price:performance:power crown after them.
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I'm ready to roll with a Conroe setup but the lack of any sort of decent mobo (as well as the CPUs themselves) really sucks. I'm not only waiting for a decent board I'm also waiting for a decent uATX NV board or maybe an SLI board.

Honestly, I'm thinking of just going AM2 after the price cuts just so I can get what I want out of the system, I could always upgrade later when Conroe is actually ready.
 
CrimandEvil said:
You do realize that cache size hardly matters with the A64 chips, right? :rolleyes:

I'm ready to roll with a Conroe setup but the lack of any sort of decent mobo (as well as the CPUs themselves) really sucks. I'm not only waiting for a decent board I'm also waiting for a decent uATX NV board or maybe an SLI board.

Honestly, I'm thinking of just going AM2 after the price cuts just so I can get what I want out of the system, I could always upgrade later when Conroe is actually ready.
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You don't understand the nature of what I am getting at do you, I was talking about how the 4000+ at it's price is going to stay there and it's uncompetitive anyway to Conroe with that kinda price.

Even with the price drops on the 89W 2x512KB parts, the models 4200+, 4600+ and 5000+ will still indeed be slower then the Conroe models they will face.

Considering Conroe isn't slated for availability till the 27th I am not surprised there is no stock.
tongue.gif


A 4000+ is certainly not worth it's price premium over the x2 3800+ with such a minor power and performance improvement, you said so yourself cache does little for Athlon 64's.

Well we will have to see how the motherboard issue plays out. Hopefully intel will play it well this time around and have good availability on the 27th.
 
coldpower27 said:
You don't understand the nature of what I am getting at do you, I was talking about how the 4000+ at it's price is going to stay there and it's uncompetitive anyway to Conroe with that kinda price.

Even with the price drops on the 89W 2x512KB parts, the models 4200+, 4600+ and 5000+ will still indeed be slower then the Conroe models they will face.
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No, I understood that. Seeing the "lowend" Conroe play in the same sandbox as AMD's highend X2 chips makes that pretty clear but you're making it sound like theres this huge difference between 512 and one meg cache A64s when there isn't.
Considering Conroe isn't slated for availability till the 27th I am not surprised there is no stock.
tongue.gif
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Yes, yes that does indeed explain things. :p
A 4000+ is certainly not worth it's price premium over the x2 3800+ with such a minor power and performance improvement, you said so yourself cache does little for Athlon 64's.
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Hell, I just wish they would get those EE version out there (too bad they're not going to have a lower price tag too).
Well we will have to see how the motherboard issue plays out. Hopefully intel will play it well this time around and have good availability on the 27th.
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Yeah, so far this is the only thing that really pisses me off about going Intel this time. I really wish I could get a 6150 mobo that supports Conroe but my choices are probably going to be limited to Intel's IGP. :rolleyes:
 
have you checked out hardocp.com's front page lately? the real world conroe tests show that conroe isn't a huge arse improvement over a64's at the same price point/performance levels. check it out.


cr0w said:
Those price cuts just make me want Conroe more, what with it still holding price:performance:power crown after them.
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JediFonger said:
have you checked out hardocp.com's front page lately? the real world conroe tests show that conroe isn't a huge arse improvement over a64's at the same price point/performance levels. check it out.
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The problem with HardOCP's benchmarks are that if they had done those benches with the Athlon 64x2 3800+ and Pentium D 945, it would have result in the same thing occuring.

GPU bottlenecking occurs much earlier then Athlon FX 62.
 
CrimandEvil said:
No, I understood that. Seeing the "lowend" Conroe play in the same sandbox as AMD's highend X2 chips makes that pretty clear but you're making it sound like theres this huge difference between 512 and one meg cache A64s when there isn't.
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Then you have misinterpreted, I didn't say anything about 2x512KB making a huge performance difference over 2x1MB for Athlon 64.
 
JediFonger said:
have you checked out hardocp.com's front page lately? the real world conroe tests show that conroe isn't a huge arse improvement over a64's at the same price point/performance levels. check it out.
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When did I say anything about any gaming, high resolution or otherwise?

Conroe wrecks X2 in all areas, for less money, with less power usage, with more overclocking headroom. What's there not to like?
 
cr0w said:
What's there not to like?
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That there are at most 2 decent mobos for overclocking and they cost almost twice as much as the lowest end chip (which is the only one you should buy for serious overclocking on a budget)

That and I'd have to get new Memory and a new video card to even be able to use said new psychotically expensive motherboards, which if you're doing it right would be another half a grand. So what's there to like about it?
 
I think I trust the people that used the actual board versus your 'knowledge' about the Gigabyte board.

Even so, the abit AB9 can be had for around the same price at various places on the web.

All in all, your point is moot.
 
cr0w said:
I think I trust the people that used the actual board versus your 'knowledge' about the Gigabyte board.

Even so, the abit AB9 can be had for around the same price at various places on the web.

All in all, your point is moot.
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My knowledge of the board is nil. Your condescending attitude is not required, either. Your understanding of the word "moot" is incorrect. As is my point. Tool.
 
Those are distributer prices, price you can get from place like Newegg and ZipZoomfly are very unlike to reach those levels.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...&description=&srchInDesc=&minPrice=&maxPrice=

The Athlon 64x2 3800+ is 297US now on Newegg, on AMD's price List 303US
,on the new roadmap they are supposed to be 277US.

The Athlon 64x2 4200+ is 359US now on Newegg, on AMD's price List 365US
,on the new roadmap they are supposed to be 339US.

The Athlon 64x2 4600+ is 568US now on Newegg, on AMD's price List 558US
,on the new roadmap they are supposed to be 522US.

So please keep in mind you need to add in a bit of a price premium to really relate to the prices we are going to get.

Though that aside, I like the new prices of the Athlon 64x2 4600+ and 5000+ as they are still lower then the prior rumors as well as the price drop on the FX 62.
 
mwarps said:
My knowledge of the board is nil. Your condescending attitude is not required, either. Your understanding of the word "moot" is incorrect. As is my point. Tool.
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adj.

1. Subject to debate; arguable: a moot question.
2.
1. Law. Without legal significance, through having been previously decided or settled.
2. Of no practical importance; irrelevant.

Sigh.
 
cr0w said:
adj.

1. Subject to debate; arguable: a moot question.
2.
1. Law. Without legal significance, through having been previously decided or settled.
2. Of no practical importance; irrelevant.

Sigh.
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It wasn't irrelevant, braintrust, it was wrong. ZOMG.
 
mwarps said:
The Gigabyte link is a joke. I have bought them before and will never *ever* buy them again.
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Wrong, or irrelevant?

But yes, I agree, you were wrong too.
 
cr0w said:
Wrong, or irrelevant?

But yes, I agree, you were wrong too.
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No, my statement on Gigabyte was fact. I will never buy from them again, unless they prove themselves to not suck ass, break, blow caps and kill hardware. Don't like that? Too damned bad.

As far as the the main point, that you have to spend a shit pot of money on a good mobo to OC conroe, I'm still waiting (and really, the rest of the enthusiast crowd is) for a nice long list that doesn't burn holes in our wallets. Feel free to give us one.

So far we're at the Abit AB9 and the Asus board. Again, 2.
And really, the AB9 is a basic board with one PCI-E x16 slot, and does not deserve to fetch that sort of coin. Asus has amazing SLI boards for about that much cash on s939.

Sooo. Waiting. Really.
 
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