8700g, 8600g, and 8500g Reviews

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OKC Yeakey Trentadue

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Central location for all of AMD's APU reviews.
First up, the 8/16 thread 8700g:
https://www.techspot.com/review/2796-amd-ryzen-8700g/

Over twice the gaming performance in some titles as the previous iGPU chap, the 5700g thanks mostly to the DDR5 memory speed increases. Still, it falls short of even the 6400xt in gaming, which is a problem when this APU costs $330 by itself.

The 6/12t 8600g will likely perform similarly in gaming (my guess) but at a much better $230 price point.
 
KazeoHin said:
Those are impressive iGPU numbers. I'd love to kit out an ITX retro game machine no larger than a paperback book that can play/emulate just about everything from 2015 and older.
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Reviewers don't seem to get the point of an APU. It's not simply 'best bang for your budget gaming setup'. It's a strong cpu in a small box that can do some gaming.

Still, the 8700g is a tough sell at $330. I'm betting the 5700x3d could perform at a similar CPU level at $240 leaving $90 for an SFF gpu such as the AMD 6400. Sure, it would be AM4, but that is still a capable platform.

The 8600g fairs a bit bettter. Looking at some 8600g gaming numbers, it is not far behind the 8700g at $230, at least in gaming. You can get a 7500f for $180, but it is much harder to find a capable SFF card for $50.
 
OKC Yeakey Trentadue said:
Central location for all of AMD's APU reviews.
First up, the 8/16 thread 8700g:
https://www.techspot.com/review/2796-amd-ryzen-8700g/

Over twice the gaming performance in some titles as the previous iGPU chap, the 5700g thanks mostly to the DDR5 memory speed increases. Still, it falls short of even the 6400xt in gaming, which is a problem when this APU costs $330 by itself.

The 6/12t 8600g will likely perform similarly in gaming (my guess) but at a much better $230 price point.
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I disagree that it's a problem. The price of a 6400XT adds a lot to the price and real estate of a build.
 
8700G at MSRP is probably only going into small systems with no room for a GPU. Otherwise, I think 8600G looks like the value choice for systems with cooling. If you have no capacity to cool it, maybe the 8500G, maybe.

Last gen prices are nicer, but these will drop too.
 
toast0 said:
8700G at MSRP is probably only going into small systems with no room for a GPU. Otherwise, I think 8600G looks like the value choice for systems with cooling. If you have no capacity to cool it, maybe the 8500G, maybe.

Last gen prices are nicer, but these will drop too.
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For the 'micro pc' or whatever they call a PC that can't even fit an low profile gpu, the 8600g seems like the way to go. As you would be power constrained anyway, there is not much to gain with the 8700g. You would basically have a PS4 with a faster cpu. 30 fps 1080p low on heavy titles with a lot more 60 fps on lighter titles.

That is likely an even smaller niche than the LP ITX 'mini pcs'. If Nvidia release its 6 GB 3050 for closer to $100, it will be hard for the APUs to compete here when there are plenty of capable CPUs for $200 and under. Otherwise, builders are stuck using the AMD 6400 LP or getting an old 1650/1550ti low profile card.
 
OKC Yeakey Trentadue said:
For the 'micro pc' or whatever they call a PC that can't even fit an low profile gpu, the 8600g seems like the way to go. As you would be power constrained anyway, there is not much to gain with the 8700g. You would basically have a PS4 with a faster cpu. 30 fps 1080p low on heavy titles with a lot more 60 fps on lighter titles.

That is likely an even smaller niche than the LP ITX 'mini pcs'. If Nvidia release its 6 GB 3050 for closer to $100, it will be hard for the APUs to compete here when there are plenty of capable CPUs for $200 and under. Otherwise, builders are stuck using the AMD 6400 LP or getting an old 1650/1550ti low profile card.
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The thing is, there's a market for highest-performance-but-still-upgradeable desktop PCs in tiny, tiny cases such as
1706651518632.png

If you're doing 3D sculpting by day and playing 1080p games by night, Yes, there ARE more powerful options, yes, there ARE smaller options, yes there ARE more upgradable options... But are there more powerful, smaller, more upgradable options?
 
KazeoHin said:
The thing is, there's a market for highest-performance-but-still-upgradeable desktop PCs in tiny, tiny cases such as
View attachment 631542
If you're doing 3D sculpting by day and playing 1080p games by night, Yes, there ARE more powerful options, yes, there ARE smaller options, yes there ARE more upgradable options... But are there more powerful, smaller, more upgradable options?
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I've built about 8 PCs for the office in these cases. All 5600g, one newer 7700 and will continue to use these for the 8600g. These are office PCs, so no need for monster graphics.
 
OKC Yeakey Trentadue said:
Reviewers don't seem to get the point of an APU. It's not simply 'best bang for your budget gaming setup'. It's a strong cpu in a small box that can do some gaming.

Still, the 8700g is a tough sell at $330. I'm betting the 5700x3d could perform at a similar CPU level at $240 leaving $90 for an SFF gpu such as the AMD 6400. Sure, it would be AM4, but that is still a capable platform.

The 8600g fairs a bit bettter. Looking at some 8600g gaming numbers, it is not far behind the 8700g at $230, at least in gaming. You can get a 7500f for $180, but it is much harder to find a capable SFF card for $50.
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The 8700g is damn near as fast as a 7800x3d in productivity. Very close. That equates to a badass cpu indeed. However it can actually game without a gpu where as the the 7800x3d igp is good enough to install an os and not much else. If I wanted a low power super quiet mini itx I'd rock an 8700g.

I've seen that really fast ram makes a big difference in this things performance. Like 7000mt plus territory is where it really shines.
 
Yeah, these are a great specialty combo. As Gamer's Nexus showed... if budget gaming is all that matters an i3-12100 and a RX 6600 or 6650XT are twice as fast for the same money or less. But the 8700G 8 Core is a decently fast CPU and has $150 worth of video bolted on and it does it at stupidly low power and comes with a cooler. It's a great machine for HTPC or any general purpose computer that you might just leave on most hours of the day. Power consumption is going to be minimal all the time.

It fills the niche the 5700G tried to fill but is doing a MUCH better job of it.

I have two 5700G systems and one 5600G. Looking forward to offloading one of the 5700G and trying out an 8700G with some DDR5 6400.
 
These are a nice step forward in a light gaming do it all small PC. Personally every time I try to use something like that for htpc duties eventually I want to play some games on the couch. Every time I end up moving my main PC to the living room for a while. I’m interested in people’s experiences here if you all try these out.
 
tangoseal said:
The 8700g is damn near as fast as a 7800x3d in productivity. Very close. That equates to a badass cpu indeed. However it can actually game without a gpu where as the the 7800x3d igp is good enough to install an os and not much else. If I wanted a low power super quiet mini itx I'd rock an 8700g.

I've seen that really fast ram makes a big difference in this things performance. Like 7000mt plus territory is where it really shines.
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It's not that close, and the 7700 is just at good at productivity as thr 7800x3d for that matter. Comparing its capabilities in productivity to a gaming cpu is a bit disingenuous for showing of its value.

Other than the micro pc fans, the only reason that the 8700g appears viable is the awful budget cpu prices. The 8600g holds its own much better.

https://www.guru3d.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-8700g-processor-review/page-7/
 
A good product with, unfortunately, a bad price imposed by marketing - the die needs to be 8-core to compete in the laptop space, but by having 8 cores, it needs to have a $300+ MSRP to not cannibalize 7800X sales. As the reviews point out, $300 is the same price as a RX 6600 and a $99 CPU, a combo which is more than twice as fast at 1080p. More importantly, the RX 6600 is a vastly better experience at 1080p because it will do 50-60 fps at reasonable settings on most titles, versus the 30-40 fps at 1080p low the APU can put out.

While a nice HTPC combo, once again the problem is you're not getting playable framerates at 1080p - do you really want to game at 1080p low at 40 fps on a 65" screen? That relegates you to "I want an HTPC, are willing to sacrifice performance and cost for size, but don't want to play any new games" which seems...pretty niche.

The old 2200G was different because it was $99. You aren't getting a reasonable CPU for less than $99, so the nice iGPU was effectively "free". Here, the 8700G costs so much more than an i3-12100 that you basically pay $200 for the iGPU (you also get four more cores but most people who are buying an 8700G probably don't care about core count).
 
MrGuvernment said:
This is what is annoying, how long do vendors and MB makers know about this CPU, chipsets, designs, requirements, and yet they still managed to flake out their products to support it?
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Honestly I’m guessing not long. How many years has this been a problem? Really since the days of the internet as a viable option to update a board or os. I feel like in the mid 90’s when internet became more widely available at least enough to download a bios update, we’ve been patching them.

I have quite a few systems pre mid 90’s that never required a bios update. All advertised features worked. There were less feature thought.
 
I agree my primary use case for one of these is HTPC or multi-role office system in a really small light case that may stay on constantly. It provides "enough" of everything to do everything at a low power and low heat output.

But if for ANY reason 3D performance is the primary desire that is absolutely correct you are crazy not to just get a $100 CPU and a RX 6600 for $30 less or a RX 6650XT for $20 more than the 8700G.

And yes is does really need to be at LEAST $50 less. That would put it where it truly belongs on the performance hierarchy.
 
bwang said:
While a nice HTPC combo
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Maybe the 8500G will be, but it seem overpowered cpu and too strong while too weak GPU and that price point. What would be the HTPC using that amount of CPU power ? Imac office PC, for work that require more GPU than a 13100k give could maybe make more sense, but that would be rare case of wanting more than a intel iGPU but not want more than this. When a HTPC end up costing more than a PS5/not that bad Laptop/more than twice an appleTV you plug on a tv, do you not want more almost always a bit more gpu humff.

You pay for a GPU probably too strong if you do not play game on that HTPC, Intel iGPU being maybe more than good enough in that case, but not strong enough to play game that well either, it is just a laptop combo that fail in a bit of empty of nothingness in the desktop space.

Being on DDR5-AM5 current options-price does not help to find a use case that it would be good option for the price.

That said SFF is rarely for making sense and being a good price-performance affair but for fun/aesthetic, wanted the challenge to balance, it does not need to make sense necessarily and being the strongest apu that run native win32 could appeal just for that.
 
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LukeTbk said:
Maybe the 8500G will be, but it seem overpowered cpu and too strong while too weak GPU and that price point. What would be the HTPC using that amount of CPU power ? Imac office PC, for work that require more GPU than a 13100k give could maybe make more sense, but that would be rare case of wanting more than a intel iGPU but not want more than this. When a HTPC end up costing more than a PS5/not that bad Laptop/more than twice an appleTV you plug on a tv, do you not want more almost always a bit more gpu humff.

You pay for a GPU probably too strong if you do not play game on that HTPC, Intel iGPU being maybe more than good enough in that case, but not strong enough to play game that well either, it is just a laptop combo that fail in a bit of empty of nothingness in the desktop space.

Being on DDR5-AM5 current options-price does not help to find a use case that it would be good option for the price.

That said SFF is rarely for making sense and being a good price-performance affair but for fun/aesthetic, wanted the challenge to balance, it does not need to make sense necessarily and being the strongest apu that run native win32 could appeal just for that.
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The 8500g will likely fare the worst out of all of them as the 5600g and a cheap b550 seems like a better performer and value across the boats.
Not as good for upgrading or I/O but I doubt HTPC / retro gaming owners care about that as much
 
OKC Yeakey Trentadue said:
The 8500g will likely fare the worst out of all of them as the 5600g and a cheap b550 seems like a better performer and value across the boats.
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True the DDR5-AM5 higher cost will hurt that one even more than the upper scale, maybe in a couple of years when AM5-DDR5 will be what AM4-DDR4 are now.

I also imagine you do not often build those small box with upgrade path in mind, it is for the fun of making them that they are made and will be easy to justify I have many TV in this house or to gift around for the next one.
 
MrGuvernment said:
Likely matching the CPU at the time of the 1060 being around.
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Yes probably a good way for someone that would be in the market for a 8700G for a low budget gaming system, that has a old CPU but no or a very weak gpu, I am better buying a used 1060 to upgrade my old system or a 8700G and no GPU, so interesting data and no one with already a powerful CPU would be interested in a 8700-8600G.

The comment was more, I am not sure it is a good way to judge if the gpu part of the APU match a 1050-1060 type of card, and even playing at low setting making it more possibly CPU important (high fps number after all) it is still quite far in some title.
 
Look at the 8500g performance, though not a top tier reviewer:

View: https://youtu.be/cnxlwBeJtUs?si=N9bQ-sX51d-WHsiv

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R6 and MW2 were the only games that had a benchmark, but I was surprised that the 8500g beat the 5600g in EVERY game. Bump from the 8500g to the 8600g was 40-50+% where going from the 8600g to the 8700g was only 10-15%.

These are 4, 8, 12 cu parts so thr 8600g seems to be the sweetspot before being too memory choked again.
 
If the apu can address 32gb of ram and has high ram speed ability (~100GB/s) it could be a really good AI inference machine. Anything else with GPU that can address 32gb of ram is super expensive, comparatively. Cheapest alternative would be a Mac m1 pro, which still isn't anywhere near cheap.
 
I may upgrade my 5700g to an 8600g, but I'll wait for some deals first.
Wish it was a bit better than 8 lane PCIe 4.0, but you get what you get to keep the price somewhat civil.
 
I just ordered an Aurous B650, 64gb of 6000mhz cl30 ram and an 8700G, we'll see how it does. If it can't tackle LLM's at a decent speed, I'll sell it and replace with a 7950x3d for my main rig and retire the 5800x3d.
 
I just finished a build for a daily driver using the 8700G. The goal was decent power, no dedicated gpu and it had to be near silent...mission accomplished. The Noctua P1 heatsink is working great in my semi-passive rig. The only hiccup I have to report is it would BSOD every time I began to play a YouTube video...the solution ended up being to turn off hardware acceleration in Chrome.

daily driver.jpg
 
bobzdar said:
I just ordered an Aurous B650, 64gb of 6000mhz cl30 ram and an 8700G, we'll see how it does. If it can't tackle LLM's at a decent speed, I'll sell it and replace with a 7950x3d for my main rig and retire the 5800x3d.
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8700G scales pretty well with ddr5 7200...
 
Riptide62 said:
I just finished a build for a daily driver using the 8700G. The goal was decent power, no dedicated gpu and it had to be near silent...mission accomplished. The Noctua P1 heatsink is working great in my semi-passive rig. The only hiccup I have to report is it would BSOD every time I began to play a YouTube video...the solution ended up being to turn off hardware acceleration in Chrome.

View attachment 633544
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Never use Chrome or Firefox, just download Brave.
 
OKC Yeakey Trentadue said:
Power consumption requires high end cooling when there is only about 1 in^2 of surface area. This not only increase the price but makes it unusable in a small form factor.
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I disagree, there are decent aio that fit in sff quite well. I'd bet the one in my Dan A4 could keep well within temp specs without worry.

I understand the point about price, however, some PC enthusiast's don't really care.

Yes I believe the 8600G is probably the better deal, but haven't you ever just wanted something to play with?

Point was with my original post is, it has some room to grow and that was but one of a few site that suggested fast ram.

I know my 5700g appreciated ddr5 4000, tho I never tweaked the settings much.

But seeing how it's been retired, maybe I will see what it really can do before I sell it.
 
SamiiRoss said:
8700G scales pretty well with ddr5 7200...
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64gb of that was getting cost prohibitive - and I don't think it'd provide enough boost to where it's the difference between usable and not usable (for AI inference). For gaming (where 32gb would be fine) I could definitely see it being worth it.

I got all the parts over the weekend and got a no boot situation - red ram light on the board. Tried a single stick in each slot, then the other stick in each slot, still no boot. Thinking it's the board but we'll see, replacement should be here today.

edit: Got it working, had to use a different bios (went for the 1st bios that supported the 8000 series). We'll see how it does.
 
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Update - GPU inference is slower than CPU (5 tok/s vs. 14 tok/s). I tested against my 5800x3d and it only got around 9 tok/s, so the ddr5 seems to be making a huge difference on the cpu side for AI inference. This was using a larger model (17GB in ram). For reference, my 4090 gets 80 tok/s. I tested vs. my Asus g14 laptop with a smaller model (4900HS/rtx2060) and it gets around 8 tok/s cpu, 9 tok/s GPU, and even tried the on-board (Vega based) gpu which got 1.5 tok/s. Looks like a good AM5 cpu will perform on par with an rtx3060 or 3070 in terms of AI inference. As another reference, my Mac M1Pro with 16gb ram can do 13 tok/s on metal gpu, 8 tok/s on cpu. Anything over 10 tok/s is pretty usable for what I'm doing.

I'm probably going to return the 8700G and get a 7950x3d and see how it does. I'm guessing it's all going to be ram bandwidth limited, so it might not really go much faster, but should be quite a bit quicker in games.
 
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