7950X3D - AM5 frame (Thermalright / ThermalGrizzly), offset mounting, delidding and other ancillary upgrades?

[RanceJustice]

Hello all. It seems like there are some upgrades to the AM5 platform that may make the cooling and overall performance of a higher-end CPU better. I'd appreciate if anyone would care to weigh in on the use of any of these and in some cases, which particular variant is worthwhile.

AM5 replacement frames w/ guards to protect the open notches in CPUs - Thermalright's Secure Frame and Thermal Grizzly 's Contact and Sealing Frame seem to be of note. Apparently the Intel LGA1700 platform REALLY benefits from the replacement of the lever based hold down mechanism, but though AM5's is not so dramatic it apparently seems to provide a number of benefits to securely holding down the CPU and allowing for a good cooler fit to the IHS, plus blocking all the notches from thermal paste spread (useful) or especially liquid metal (important). Thermalright's option seems to be a little less expensive and the whole thing seems to be aluminum, right up to the notches and the like - I am guessing this does not cause any issues electrically?. It seems to get solid reviews especially for the inexpensive price and the option to purchase a red version is a nice nod to AMD's signature color. Thermal Grizzly's is a bit more expensive but seems to be a two piece setup where the internal component butting right up against the notches is a "silicone foam"; I'm unsure if this is fundamentally different from some of the cheaper foam insert/protectors made to stop paste spillage or if it material is preferable to the full aluminum setup of the Thermalright? The few reviews I've seen lean towards the Thermalright but granted that was often back before Thermal Grizzly released the single product with both parts; others thought that TR's value over TG didn't show the latter favorably.

Offset Mounting - Given the hotspot profile of modern AM5 CPUs , especially higher end ones, it appears that there is some benefit from mounting the CPU cooler slightly offset downward, to address the chiplet structure and how components are placed under the IHS. THermal Grizzly seems to have an adapter screw kit made to do this, but I am wondering how necessary it may be and if many other coolers, heatsinks, AIOs, or custom blocks maintain their own way to do so. For instance, Arctic Liquid Freezer II specifically mentions the capability for an offset mounting so that's nice that its included.

Delidding - There seems to be a bigger..interest in this now? Or perhaps simply more tools and components made for the platform? Waterblocks made directly for on-die cooling, a "delid-mate" tool etc; Thermal Grizzly even seems to have a "replacement IHS" that is supposed to have better surface area, for those who don't wish to cool directly on die. Though perhaps less risky than it used to be given the amount of purpose-built tools and components for delidding or to interface with a delidded CPU, it still seems to have a relatively modest benefit for the risk involved unless you're pushing your proc to the limit with a custom liquid cooling system or better and thus isn't likely worth the trouble for most?

At the moment I'm thinking of grabbing once of the AM5 hold down/protection frames given the cost is incidental and use the offset mounting option on the Liquid Freezer II , but lean away from delidding at this point? Are there any other ancillary upgrades that are worthwhile for a 7950X3D?

 

[vxspiritxv]

I dealt with exactly this. Tho with 7950X non 3D. Everything thermal throttled with -10 curve until I got an optimus signature water block (non de-lidded it is build for both). That Included liquid freezer 2. That said my benchmarks were over what most reviewers benchmarks were getting. So it's not like it was costing much performance. Once non thermal throttled I was getting maybe 3% higher numbers. Ice Giant worked better than artic freezer for me, but it was also way louder. Delidding is a lot more risky, but if your going for numbers, that's the way to go. Personally I feel new processors come out often enough, not worth the time or effort vs risk involved. 8950x is right around the corner; Why buy specific hardware that might not work on the next processor (die height might change), and then also you have to risk delidding future upgrades. If I had to do it all over again with what I know now. I would prob stick with Artic Freezer; It's simple easy and cheap, and gets you 97% of the performance on the table using stock boost settings while being very quiet.

 

[LigTasm]

I have the Thermalright frame, one thing I note is the AM5 socket seems WAY more sensitive to torque of the screws than the Intel one that I've used half a dozen of - I tried tightening it more than the recommended amount just to see and it wouldn't even make it to the desktop without a blue screen. I didn't notice any real temperature difference, but it could be down to the coolers I used too.

I don't use paste any more, but I assume it would keep it cleaner in the gaps. I use it because I have heavy air coolers and I like the extra support.

 

[RanceJustice]

I dealt with exactly this. Tho with 7950X non 3D. Everything thermal throttled with -10 curve until I got an optimus signature water block (non de-lidded it is build for both). That Included liquid freezer 2. That said my benchmarks were over what most reviewers benchmarks were getting. So it's not like it was costing much performance. Once non thermal throttled I was getting maybe 3% higher numbers. Ice Giant worked better than artic freezer for me, but it was also way louder. Delidding is a lot more risky, but if your going for numbers, that's the way to go. Personally I feel new processors come out often enough, not worth the time or effort vs risk involved. 8950x is right around the corner; Why buy specific hardware that might not work on the next processor (die height might change), and then also you have to risk delidding future upgrades. If I had to do it all over again with what I know now. I would prob stick with Artic Freezer; It's simple easy and cheap, and gets you 97% of the performance on the table using stock boost settings while being very quiet.

Thanks. I Hear those Optimus Signature AM5 blocks are amazing - pretty much the block I'd choose so far for a custom water situation, even without delidding. As far as Ice Giant, I just looked that up and its....some sort of hybrid design? Not an AIO, but has some sort of media inside for phase change or the like? I'm surprised to hear your Arctic Liquid Freezer II got you thermal throttling on a 7950X - what size rad did you use? I'm also wondering if it worth replacing the Arctic fans on one of them with something else - some other user I saw mentioned it made a sizable difference but I don't recall what they used. I know the Arctic fans (to get the latest AM5 compatible setup, I grabbed the A-RGB cooler) version are decent, but there may be some (Noctua, some of the mag-lev Corsair , etc) that a lead to a meaningful improvement. GIven what I read about how current AIOs stack up , I came to the same conclusion as you that the LF2 was pretty much still the best of AIO's more or less thanks to its unique design, and should take me the vast majority of the maximum performance one can expect from a day to day used boosted 7950X or 7950X3D.

I have the Thermalright frame, one thing I note is the AM5 socket seems WAY more sensitive to torque of the screws than the Intel one that I've used half a dozen of - I tried tightening it more than the recommended amount just to see and it wouldn't even make it to the desktop without a blue screen. I didn't notice any real temperature difference, but it could be down to the coolers I used too.

I don't use paste any more, but I assume it would keep it cleaner in the gaps. I use it because I have heavy air coolers and I like the extra support.

Do they give you an accurate "recommended" amount of tightening in the install instructions? I see they mention using the diagonal-cross alternating screw down technique moving from screw to screw, but especially if it is as sensitive as you say I hope it is documented what exactly the amount should be. I don't want to end up with BSODs or doing any pin damage, nor do I want it too lose that proper contact ins't made prohibiting RAM compatibility, OC and other issues.

 

[LigTasm]

Do they give you an accurate "recommended" amount of tightening in the install instructions? I see they mention using the diagonal-cross alternating screw down technique moving from screw to screw, but especially if it is as sensitive as you say I hope it is documented what exactly the amount should be. I don't want to end up with BSODs or doing any pin damage, nor do I want it too lose that proper contact ins't made prohibiting RAM compatibility, OC and other issues.

Theres a tool for it, but it should be 5 in-lb. I have a torque driver that I use for them, but you can just tighten them to finger tight with a normal driver and its about the same - just take note of how tight they are when you take them off and try to do that, not really a big deal.

 

[chameleoneel]

Hello all. It seems like there are some upgrades to the AM5 platform that may make the cooling and overall performance of a higher-end CPU better. I'd appreciate if anyone would care to weigh in on the use of any of these and in some cases, which particular variant is worthwhile.

AM5 replacement frames w/ guards to protect the open notches in CPUs - Thermalright's Secure Frame and Thermal Grizzly 's Contact and Sealing Frame seem to be of note. Apparently the Intel LGA1700 platform REALLY benefits from the replacement of the lever based hold down mechanism, but though AM5's is not so dramatic it apparently seems to provide a number of benefits to securely holding down the CPU and allowing for a good cooler fit to the IHS, plus blocking all the notches from thermal paste spread (useful) or especially liquid metal (important). Thermalright's option seems to be a little less expensive and the whole thing seems to be aluminum, right up to the notches and the like - I am guessing this does not cause any issues electrically?. It seems to get solid reviews especially for the inexpensive price and the option to purchase a red version is a nice nod to AMD's signature color. Thermal Grizzly's is a bit more expensive but seems to be a two piece setup where the internal component butting right up against the notches is a "silicone foam"; I'm unsure if this is fundamentally different from some of the cheaper foam insert/protectors made to stop paste spillage or if it material is preferable to the full aluminum setup of the Thermalright? The few reviews I've seen lean towards the Thermalright but granted that was often back before Thermal Grizzly released the single product with both parts; others thought that TR's value over TG didn't show the latter favorably.

Offset Mounting - Given the hotspot profile of modern AM5 CPUs , especially higher end ones, it appears that there is some benefit from mounting the CPU cooler slightly offset downward, to address the chiplet structure and how components are placed under the IHS. THermal Grizzly seems to have an adapter screw kit made to do this, but I am wondering how necessary it may be and if many other coolers, heatsinks, AIOs, or custom blocks maintain their own way to do so. For instance, Arctic Liquid Freezer II specifically mentions the capability for an offset mounting so that's nice that its included.

Delidding - There seems to be a bigger..interest in this now? Or perhaps simply more tools and components made for the platform? Waterblocks made directly for on-die cooling, a "delid-mate" tool etc; Thermal Grizzly even seems to have a "replacement IHS" that is supposed to have better surface area, for those who don't wish to cool directly on die. Though perhaps less risky than it used to be given the amount of purpose-built tools and components for delidding or to interface with a delidded CPU, it still seems to have a relatively modest benefit for the risk involved unless you're pushing your proc to the limit with a custom liquid cooling system or better and thus isn't likely worth the trouble for most?

At the moment I'm thinking of grabbing once of the AM5 hold down/protection frames given the cost is incidental and use the offset mounting option on the Liquid Freezer II , but lean away from delidding at this point? Are there any other ancillary upgrades that are worthwhile for a 7950X3D?

I use the AM5 frame. But I don't really recommend it to most people.

There isn't thought to be a flex problem for AM5/Zen4, like there can be with Intel's LGA 1700. So, it's less likely to be any notable benefit, if any at all.
And installing them otherwise gives you a whole lot more chance at damaging the socket pins.
That said, I have seen tests which suggest you can improve temps a couple of degrees.

Noctua offers offset mounts for most/all of their coolers. They claim up to 3c improvement. So, it's not huge. And because it moves the mount downward, it can introduce compatibility issues with some SSD heatsinks, GPUs, GPU power cables, etc.

I use a noctua offset mount. It prevents me from using 180 degree adapters for the 8 pin power connections on my GPU. I had to buy a very specific low profile 8 pin cable from MODDIY, to get my ITX side panel to close.


I use these things because I am a very experienced builder. And for an ITX build, scraping back a couple of degrees with mods which add zero extra noise: well its alright for me, I suppose.

 

[sk3tch]

I've swapped CPUs a couple of times with my AM5 frame in place from Thermalright. Only benefit that I see is less paste mess, but it's still messy, lol. I use Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut FWIW with AIOs FWIW.

I have 3 other AM5 rigs that do not have a frame. I just don't see the benefit. Seems purely cosmetic. That said, I don't hate on it for that. Looks nice and clean and the price is right.

 

[Furious_Styles]

I've swapped CPUs a couple of times with my AM5 frame in place from Thermalright. Only benefit that I see is less paste mess, but it's still messy, lol. I use Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut FWIW with AIOs FWIW.

I have 3 other AM5 rigs that do not have a frame. I just don't see the benefit. Seems purely cosmetic. That said, I don't hate on it for that. Looks nice and clean and the price is right.

Yeah that was my take on it. Only really important if you're using liquid metal and that's not really worth it when running stock. I contacted them about a DD frame for the 7800x3d, they don't have one yet but they're working on it.

 

[Teenyman45]

If you're not de-lidding, the best options to really push and cool a 7950x are either a Techn block, an Alphacool Core 1, or an Optimus Signature block. The Techn was originally an AM4 block, but is fully compatible with the AM5 backplate, and marginally outperforms an Optimus Foundation block. Alphacool's block is in the same spot as the TechN. The Signature block is truly superior, though at a price premium almost on par with an EK specialty product. I would avoid actual EK blocks like an overpriced plague: Absolute top of the market pricing for median to sub-par performance.

No need for a contact frame if you are using the Optimus Signature block based on how it is designed and mounts. With the CPU pulling 225 watts and a -30 offset in Cinebench R23, my setup in transitioning from TechN with Noctua NHT1 paste to Optimus and Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme in a 20C room dropped from 89-91C to 83C. I'd attribute 2-ish degrees improvement to the change in paste and the rest to the block. Optimus includes an exceptionally tiny tube of Kingpin KPX that contains almost, but not quite, enough paste for two applications.

Noctua's plastic paste guard can slide around when trying to mount a water block, smearing some paste about and partially negating its potential usefulness. Thermal Grizzly adhesive CPU Guard works great from my direct, personal experience. Just be careful if you want to remove it and peel it back very slowly as a some people who pulled fast ripped those little capacitors off.

On the off-chance you intend to delid, then get the Thermal Grizzly Mycro block as it incorporates a direct die mounting system (in place of the stock retention system) as part of its design. The Optimus Signature explicitly allows for direct die cooling, but you would still need a Thermal Grizzly or equivalent direct die replacement retention system and regardless the Mycro should perform within about a degree or two of the Optimus for a LOT less money.

EDIT TO ADD because I forgot: the Thermal Grizzly replacement IHS only works as a post-de-lidding replacement for those who want to use regular air and water coolers without having to worry about fully direct contact between the die and the block or cooler. You would still need to de-lid and then add liquid metal to the CPU before adding the replacement IHS.

 

[jarablue]

Intel had the temp problem requiring a frame. AMD does not have that issue hence not needing the frame at all. I just use the stock lever. No issues with temps.

 

[Sumanji]

Not saying this is a legit source () but quite a few Amazon reviews mention a few degrees temp improvement with the Thermalright socket frame. So if you believe that plus Noctua's claims about offset mounts, then the temp reductions would seem pretty worthwhile for a couple of small tweaks...

 

[vxspiritxv]

what size rad did you use?

It was the 280 (think they are 28mm thick).
With my custom, I'm using a 240, but I think its 30mm thick alphacool.
Radiator doesn't matter so much when it goes to 95c instantly.
So never mount the pump like this, but this is my current setup; As ya can see, I was a wee bit limited on space.
I'm taking apart within the next week. Moving to Thailand.