27" vs 24" and EIZO vs BenQ Vs Dell Vs Nec for color proofing - Adobe RGB

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JargonGR

Limp Gawd
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Well it's been a long time since I am looking into getting a monitor that suits more than one purpose but I have finally given up. I wanted a nice 32" 4K with Adobe RGB, great uniformity and maybe at least 75Hz that also don't suck for games (casual) and could also maybe support HDR.

Anyway the above thing does not exist or what comes close for the professional features still costs over $2,000 and is not perfect (Asus PA32UC) or you need to go for an Eizo/Nec that cost $3.5K or more...

So I decided that I will go for a 2 screen solution to make things easier. I already use a secondary 24" 1080p monitor (Samsung IPS) so I was thinking of replacing this with something suitable for color proofing prints so I need AdobeRGB. I have narrowed it down to the following choices.

First of all I am really torn between 24" or 27" and that depends on what brand I choose to since pricing differs. The prices below are off Amazon.de and are for reference since they can be found a bit cheaper elsewhere. I also buy without VAT so its minus 19%.


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Eizo ColorEdge CS2420 24" 1920X1200 - EUR 629

Dell UP2716D - 27" 2560X1440 - EUR 620

Benq SW2700PT 27" 2560X1440 - EUR 678


With these I stay in the 650 Euros range and the only decision to be made falls into larger vs higher quality category and the most important thing here is Panel Uniformity. In other words and after research going with the EIZO is my best bet for great uniformity. On the other hand going with the BenQ I might be lucky, get a good panel and end up with more monitor for the money. The Dell worries me since it is older and browsing through Dell's forum I read some angry comments along with some negatives in several reviews - it is the best looking style those wise on my desk (you can see it)

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Eizo ColorEdge CS2730 27" 2560X1440 - EUR 1029

BenQ SW271 27" 3840X2160 - EUR 1198

NEC Multisync PA272W 27" 2560X1440 - EUR 1024


Selecting any of these requires more spending and some would argue that I can get a 32" 4K model for less. However, I need Adobe RGB and this will be a SECONDARY monitor used for color proofing. I will get a 32" or larger 4K display to be used as my primary monitor next year when the new models come out. One thing at a time.

So the dilemma here is whether I should go for a 2560X1440 display from NEC or Eizo with great panel uniformity or play the lottery and get the BenQ that is 4K and use it with 200% scaling.

Now if I go for the BenQ I am approaching a price point that makes me wonder whether I should go for the higher end model the BenQ SW320 which is a 32" model and costs 1400 Euros which is only 200 Euros more. It does look to me like a waste of 1200 Euros if not getting the 32" model but then it all becomes a vicious circle (NEC or EIZO 27" very close to the BenQ 27" 4K and so on).

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What would you do?
 
Benq Sw2700pt, ive seen it as low as 599 us. Non grainy coating. Nice. Every monitor is a gamble, even 2k dollar monitors. Spend as little as possible to get the job done.
 
It's hard to recommend something for you. As it's not certain how necessary this purchase is for you. Or how much you're willing or wanting to spend. In your own statements you say you're going to buy, then in a few months buy again. It's also "just" a secondary monitor (and how does one gauge the level of its importance that is for you?).
I'm guessing that the lack of responses here is a combination of not generally being artists that care about fidelity (most here don't calibrate nor do they notice or care about things like true 10-bit or DCI-P3, or AdobeRGB reproduction levels, uniformity, etc). Lastly, even past that, most won't have experience with any of these monitors, let alone multiple of them to be able to compare them for you.

All that said, I think the best bang for the buck monitor is probably the Benq SW320. As it was worked on with Technicolor. It has multiple proofing features built into the display itself. It covers every color profile one generally could want (other than perhaps the ultra wide Rec 2020, which it does an average amount compared to other professional panels). And it is significantly lower in cost to its NEC/Eizo counterparts.
Still, it's $1350 or so, I think stateside new. So it's not exactly cheap. And in addition it seems like (just from inference and looking around) that it has a (relatively) high failure rate. How often that actually means and what percentage that actually is, I have no idea. Just going off of Amazon.com complaints (which of course never gives an accurate picture, as you don't know how many satisfied buyers there are).

However, it seems to me, if you're going to buy your "real" monitor next year you might just as easily be able to get away with waiting and using whatever you have now. Properly calibrated, even a monitor with "poor" color reproduction probably has at least 75% AdobeRGB and nearly 100% SRGB. You won't be able to see all the colors, but it will still reproduce more than enough to edge it in 90% of the way. I doubt in a print you'd be met with any real surprises, save for it might seem more vibrant or saturated (however if you ever work with a printing technician, so much goes into a print that can really change the feel of it. From printer and ink choice to paper. Finishing, and printing proofs is an art in itself. And it's likely that if you're trying to do museum grade prints, you should have someone else do that part for you).
 
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UnknownSouljer said:
It's hard to recommend something for you. As it's not certain how necessary this purchase is for you. Or how much you're willing or wanting to spend. In your own statements you say you're going to buy, then in a few months buy again. It's also "just" a secondary monitor (and how does one gauge the level of its importance that is for you?).
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First of all thanks for taking the time to reply. Regarding its importance to me let me clear this up a bit. I am working on Branding Projects / Print Projects (small scale) and web design/development along with other digital media services for small-medium companies and this one part of our workshop (doing Architectural work) that started as a side-project but it is growing steadily because we are ultra competitive and work really hard to meet deadlines. Till now we would not accept print jobs (Booklets, brochures, flyers, catalogues) but customers are requesting it since they want full coverage so I am expanding there as well. Besides our work at the office I also work a lot from my personal space connecting with an assistant graphics designer and some web developers for custom (Javascript & PHP code). It is for my personal space that I want a dual monitor setup (color fidelity on one screen + refresh rate/contrast on the other). I also work with a Pro photographer that takes care of the photo colors but I still need to be able to see what he sees on the screen.

For projects that we create new color schemes (graphics), as part of their Brand Identity, it is important that I can see how they reproduce in printed material (both offset & inkject printers) and the various screens out there. I need this capability in my personal space too so I need sRGB and Adobe RGB (+CMYK) Calibrated Monitors, printers etc.

I'm guessing that the lack of responses here is a combination of not generally being artists that care about fidelity (most here don't calibrate nor do they notice or care about things like true 10-bit or DCI-P3, or AdobeRGB reproduction levels, uniformity, etc). Lastly, even past that, most won't have experience with any of these monitors, let alone multiple of them to be able to compare them for you.
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Fair enough since this is not a specialized photography or digital arts forum. I've browsed several fora specializing in such tasks and the general consensus is NEC/EIZO (the better really expensive models) but BenQs are generally accepted well and by some referred to as "on the verge of becoming respected". There is really not much choice when it comes to Adobe RGB monitors that don't cost $$$$$$.....However, I don't need the $$$$$ monitors in my personal space, these exist in my printing partners space and if really needed will be setup in the main office.

All that said, I think the best bang for the buck monitor is probably the Benq SW320. As it was worked on with Technicolor. It has multiple proofing features built into the display itself. It covers every color profile one generally could want (other than perhaps the ultra wide Rec 2020, which it does an average amount compared to other professional panels). And it is significantly lower in cost to its NEC/Eizo counterparts.
Still, it's $1350 or so, I think stateside new. So it's not exactly cheap. And in addition it seems like (just from inference and looking around) that it has a (relatively) high failure rate. How often that actually means and what percentage that actually is, I have no idea. Just going off of Amazon.com complaints (which of course never gives an accurate picture, as you don't know how many satisfied buyers there are).
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For sometime I had my eyes on the Asus PA329Q then this BenQ came out and then Asus announced the PA32UC-K that is $2K+ and not without compromises too. After digging around in more threads and discussions such as those in DPREVIEW.com I am convinced that the SW320 is worth a shot and it is now well into its lifecycle so one could assume that it has matured (bugs, firmware,etc) so it is worth the risk. Really, if I spent more time looking for a monitor is like I am losing money from lost work hours so the hell with it. If it's not working I am going to return it.

However, it seems to me, if you're going to buy your "real" monitor next year you might just as easily be able to get away with waiting and using whatever you have now. Properly calibrated, even a monitor with "poor" color reproduction probably has at least 75% AdobeRGB and nearly 100% SRGB. You won't be able to see all the colors, but it will still reproduce more than enough to edge it in 90% of the way. I doubt in a print you'd be met with any real surprises, save for it might seem more vibrant or saturated (however if you ever work with a printing technician, so much goes into a print that can really change the feel of it. From printer and ink choice to paper. Finishing, and printing proofs is an art in itself. And it's likely that if you're trying to do museum grade prints, you should have someone else do that part for you).
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Initially I though of getting a 24" Eizo that supports Adobe RGB along with an xRite i-Display Pro and be done with it. However, I really need a better monitor now since a second HP3065 is dying on me (used 3rd hand) and my previous HP3065 died after 10 years of hard use. My secondary display is a Samsung 24" 1080p IPS that I don't even care to look up its model name (decent for workspace only).

So new projects are popping up so I am going to get a 32" 4K AdobeRGB first, make it my primary display and then after new 32" or larger 4K models come out I will push it to a secondary role (for color proofing only) and get another one for contrast - high refresh rate and light gaming. Or still use it as my main display and use the other (if same space) for extra workspace / gaming. I am not watching movies on my PC.
 
Other entrants into the market are definitely more of a gamble than those that are established. Perhaps not in the areas of color reproduction. But certainly for whatever reason Eizo/NEC have figured out how to make incredibly reliable and stable monitors far more than the Asus/Benq upstarts. That reason alone is probably a good reason to buy an Eizo. It is definitely an investment. But worth it if you're going to be doing this, long term and for business reasons.

Still, I'll stick with my previous answer that the Benq SW320 is probably the best bang for the buck, as a similar Eizo would cost $1500 more I believe for a similar display. The issue, as has been discussed, whether or not it will fail after a short period of time.
The other option is to see whether or not you can buy a 2-5 year old Eizo/NEC locally. I don't know what your used market looks like. Here in the states they are available, but often with idiots on eBay trying to get near retail price for a 5+ year old monitor (resulting in them never selling). Occasionally they pop up open for bids or on Craigslist at more "reasonable" prices. Used of course comes with no warranty. But Eizo/NEC both actually service their monitors unlike most companies in which they are basically just a commodity, should any problem arise. If you're okay with all the "issues" used could entail, that's another option as well.
Basically you'd be looking at a 27"-32" 2560x1440 or 2560x1600 monitor from the previous generation before 4k became prevalent.
 
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Eizos and NECs are the darlings of pros and I am sure they exist at these price ranges for a reason and there has to be something better about them or they would go extinct. They are specialized vendors with displays suitable for applications none of the mainstream vendors can touch of course (e.g. medical).

Unfortunately not much of a "used" market for such monitors in Greece where I live so it seems that for now I will bet on the SW320 and as more projects come into fruition I one day will invest more. Right now I still need to invest in other gear too such as an A3 Printer, calibration device, I need to get a NAS (Thinking of Synology) as data builds up, etc...

On a funny note, I joined a contest for a BenQ Sw320 ending in about 10 days so I could win it....joking. In any case, if it is not good I will return it and will buy from Amazon.de who accept returns in 30 days no questions asked (I know through other European users).
 
JargonGR said:
Eizos and NECs are the darlings of pros and I am sure they exist at these price ranges for a reason and there has to be something better about them or they would go extinct. They are specialized vendors with displays suitable for applications none of the mainstream vendors can touch of course (e.g. medical).
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I have limited experience working with Eizo and some of their vendors over here. A previous boss that I interned for also had the NEC PA271W (this was before 4k screens existed). Solid and robust are words I would definitely use. They scream tank-like quality and razor sharp accuracy. But you pay for it obviously. The big thing is whether or not your workflow would benefit from the diminishing returns they give. 10 years ago I would say they probably had a 15-20% advantage over any competition in regards to color and color management. Now because of software and panel electronics on the whole getting better over time their lead has shrunk down. I'd probably give them a 5-10% edge now. And like I was saying, diminishing returns: does it make sense to pay twice as much for 5-10% more (in terms of color accuracy and proofing features)? I would say though that they still definitely have a huge lead in terms of service/support, QC, and quality of build. In regards to those things like I said in my last post, Asus and Benq can't touch them.

When you're working on a 150 million dollar film, having a display that won't break on you actually matters. And even if it does, having full and immediate support also matters (obviously this also matters a lot in medical imaging). So, that's a lot of what you're paying for. It's just a matter of if that matters to you.


JargonGR said:
Unfortunately not much of a "used" market for such monitors in Greece where I live so it seems that for now I will bet on the SW320 and as more projects come into fruition I one day will invest more. Right now I still need to invest in other gear too such as an A3 Printer, calibration device, I need to get a NAS (Thinking of Synology) as data builds up, etc...
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In a lot of ways, you are where I am now. I'm currently in the middle of figuring out what I need to edit 4k footage speedily and have requirements met in terms of storage. 4k footage has changed the way I have to do things completely as the storage requirements are 4x as much as 1080p at a minimum. Not to mention for whatever reason I'm getting way more video projects these days than photography related ones. I was used to filling a 4TB drive in 2 years (2x for redundancy). Now it's 8TB in 6 months. At the rate I'm going, it might soon turn to 8TB in 3 months. Certainly storage is becoming a problem, especially if I want to easily have access to all the storage at once and have it be speedy enough to edit on.

All that aside, I've been researching monitors for some time. And I, like you, would like to buy an Eizo. But it's just out of reach for the time being. It doesn't make sense for me to spend that level of money there. Benq sells refurbed SW320's on ebay over here and I'm strongly considering that.

Additionally I have considered other monitors that are coming like the new Acer Nitro XV273K which is probably going to be out early next year with a rumored MSRP of $900. It does 10-bit (8+2 A-FRC unfortunately), 90% P3, HDR 400, and 4k on IPS. It can even do all of those things at 98Hz with Freesync (higher Hz possible by disabling 10-bit and/or HDR up to 144Hz). Technically it's a gaming monitor, but if it does do 90% P3 and significantly undercuts the cost of buying an Eizo or even the Benq then it must be within consideration. Especially if it can be one monitor that I can do all my work on and then also game on (during the few times I do that... I honestly don't game as much anymore). I notice you're on nVidia, there's a GSync version coming as well, the Predator XB273K. The X27 fits also in this arena, but it costs $2k. So, at that point, might as well just buy an Eizo (which doesn't have the same gaming performance, but if I'm going to spend that much money on a monitor, I'll prioritize work over play).

Because it's not out yet, it's unknown what its AdobeRGB % will be, but it should be pretty darn good because it's using the same panel as the X27 and the X27 has >99% AdobeRGB. I look forward to seeing what the XV273K can do after calibration. (And with that, if you haven't already, I'd highly recommend buying an i1 Display Pro ASAP. It's a color calibrated that changed my life and workflow. I'd also recommend a Wacom Intuos Pro if you haven't gotten one of those already as well).

https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/press/2018/427832


JargonGR said:
On a funny note, I joined a contest for a BenQ Sw320 ending in about 10 days so I could win it....joking. In any case, if it is not good I will return it and will buy from Amazon.de who accept returns in 30 days no questions asked (I know through other European users).
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Good luck! I'd take any half-way decent monitor for free.
 
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Hey thanks for the Wacom Intuos Pro - I added that on my priority purchases basket so after I get the monitor and i1 Display Pro its next on the list. Especially for brush use it will be such a convenience plus I am curious how my little daughter (7Y) is going to do with it since she has some untapped potential talent that I need to test beyond real pencils.

BenQ also announced the PD322OU that also supports AdobeRGB along with a 27" model that is already up for pre-orders. I know the SW line is better but since the PD322OU predecessor (the PD3200U) came out about the same time as the SW320 I was thinking that the latter might get replaced soon given the competition from Asus...I might just wait for about a month longer to see if any announcement pops up.

Let's keep this thread updated with any news regarding 32" 4K Pro monitors...or try to.
 
Now there is a 10% off coupon valid until the 30th of November for this monitor in Amazon.de and my hand is itching......To buy or to wait, to buy or to wait.....LOL...I am tired and just want a nice 4K display....
 
I finally pressed the button and ordered a BenQ SW320 along with an X-Rite i1-Display Pro and will get them next week. I am taking a leap of faith here and hope that the panel lottery turns out fortunate for me.....the alternatives for equivalent specs are almost 3X price....
 
If you can give a review of the monitor after you’ve used it for a few days that would be great. Mini-review is fine of course. Whatever you have time for.
 
Sure! However, please bear in mind that I am also learning "as I go" and will have some work to do calibrating the monitor but will also test it out of the box.
I also got an Epson L1800 A3 Printer and all the chain will have to match.

The main reason I bought this is AdobeRGB so that I color proof print jobs. I am really wondering if it will any good at games but since I am not playing much this was not a requirement. I plan on getting a second 32" (or bigger) 4k that will be more focused on Contrast ration & refresh rate once better/newer panels hit the market @ below $1500.

Now my main worry is whether I will get good uniformity on this. Soon....
 
Setting up the display won’t take much time. I1’s software is very easy to use. And the Benq is capable of flipping through modes in hardware. Should be a breeze.

Calibrating the printer is another story though.
 
I got notice from UPS that the monitor will be delivered today (that was fast!) but due to social obligations with friends & wife I won't be able to get it till tomorrow from our office downtown...
The X-Rite is coming next week maybe Monday...In any case I will be able to play with the monitor during the weekend even without calibration.

The printer will take some more time though but that was needed too since I am sick of sending files to clients and having to explain..."your screen & colors, and CMYK, etch.....I need to be able to see it my self fast & EPSON had a 60 Euor cashback + 3 Years Warranty locally so I got it.
 
The monitor is here next to me in its box! I will unpack and plug it later tonight since I also need to check three more packages with watercooling stuff.
 
I installed the monitor and everything seems great at first glance. In short since this is my first 4K monitor I am impressed with the crispness in everything.

One note: Initially I thought I was not going to need any scaling but I was wrong. Windows 10 automatically set the scaling @ 150% and this is where I am leaving it. It works fine @ 125% but since I am doing a lot of reading on screen 150% is more comfortable. Without scaling I find everything TOO SMALL for reading. For the moment all my applications seems to be working fine with 150% scaling.

I need to finish installing the driver and software and then make several profiles since although everything seems fine and crisp, out of the box it is quite bright for general tasks or anything with white backgrounds (not too much light in this room and windows are behind the screen @ 8 meters with trees and grass not reflecting big amounts of light inside. During the night I use 2 Desk Lamps behind the monitor and 3 other floor/desk lamps spread across the room.

I will try and do some testing as soon as I finish all the adjustments and use it a bit and of course perform a calibration next week when I receive the X-rite.
 
I am still playing around with the monitor and so far I am pleased with my purchase. I think I have a good panel and there are no apparent issues so far.

1) There are no green, pink, blue, magenta or any other tints on any part of the screen when projecting a full screen white background. Pure white.
2) Not any serious bleeding or clouding and very decent blacks for an IPS panel.
3) No serious issues with uniformity with the worst being 13% top right corner on a 5X5 grid. DisplayCal "Nominal Tolerance" achieved and still playing with calibration profiles to see what is best.
4) I have no issues with Palette Master software & i1Display Pro (which is X-Rites custom version for BenQ). It works although not the richest in features.

In short I am keeping it and not going to risk returning it since for my scope of work it works great. I am not doing color critical Photo Editing and I mostly care about AdobeRGB coverage so that I know how some of my projects are going to look when printed.

I also got an Epson L1800 A3+ printer with the SW320 and I am glad to say that without having printer calibration equipment I am still able to match the colors on screen with the printers outpout close enough.

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Now my experience with 4K was zero and I have to say that it was a revelation coming from a 1080p screen after my 30" 2560X1600 panel died (twice) several months ago. I just can't get enough of how crisp everything looks and how easy it is to read even smaller fonts now. I begun with 150% scaling because I was shocked but I am already at 125% at a viewing distance of 70cm and I am comfortable.

I also tried it with games and of course I was pleasantly surprised since it was also a bit step-up from 1080p. It's 60Hz of course but I don't care as I also don't game much anyway. I really enjoy the graphics though and how detailed and crisp everything looks. Framerates is not an issue since after 10 years without gaming I have a huge backlog of relatively old titles (2013-2016) that play great on my overclocked + watercooled Asus Strix 1080Ti OC (2063/12100).

My only problem now is that I have a secondary 24" 1080p screen and things ain't that nice there now. I have some issues with windows scaling on the second display that leads me to believe that having two different resolutions is not ideal.

The next step is to get a second 32" 4K monitor (tuned for contrast) so that I can have equal resolution on both and avoid scaling issues. The final plan is to have 2X 32" 4K displays and a 3rd 1080p just to be able to check what many people see. I might do the latter on a second PC though as well.

For more "serious" gaming, since I am building a dedicated gaming machine based on a 9900K or the upcoming Ryzens (if good) I will resort to a 4K TV + Gaming monitor there and be done with it. This PC will be placed in an adjacent playroom to my "man-cave/home-office" so that my kids or all of us in the family can get the most of it as well. And this concludes my experience so far with the BenQ SW320.

A word of caution though! Panel lottery is intense with this monitor and you might have to return several units before you get a decent panel. Read the reviews and buy from a store with good return policy.
 
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