Question about Returns

Hi all,

Had a disagreement over a recent transaction - we're probably going forward with something we worked out privately, but I think both the buyer and the seller (myself) aren't 100% happy with the outcome. As more of "future reference," I'd like to get the forum's take on this.

Item in dispute (Original post with pictures here):

Samsung Galaxy Tab 8.4" - $---- Bought this a little while back, opened it but decided I'd rather go iOS later on. It's been open, turned on once, but the original wrapping on the device is still on it.

Click to expand...

--- Summary ---

Buyer received the device in "awesome condition" but had concerns with overheating (exact wording was "nothing bad but I'm [expletive] with my things") and screen brightness (also a preference concern). I responded and said that when I first sent it, it was "literally brand new" (see explanation below), and that if he paid for return shipping, I would check it out and, at my discretion, if the overheating was bad, I'd provide a full refund. Otherwise, since the device was brand new, I'd be willing to refund the full price minus a "depreciation fee" of $30.

The buyer responded saying that it was more "open box" to begin with and that Amazon and Newegg would still give a refund for it. My response to this was that I am not a store, and that even Newegg sometimes charges a 15% restocking fee. The fact that it was "open box" was not expressed as a concern and that there were also pictures showing the condition it was in.

We eventually met at a lower "depreciation fee" and called it at that.

----

Anyways, I was always under the assumption that everything is "sold as is" on this forum (meaning no returns), unless the item was DOA or wasn't as advertised. Now, I guess I have to explicitly state that?

Would really get some people's thoughts on whether or not the $30 depreciation/restocking fee was fair or not, or whether I was even obligated to do a return.

Thanks!



--- Edit Update ---

Edit - After the buyer's post, I've updated the original summary slightly to hopefully make the account more unbiased. Edits are as follows:

#1 Overheating - I still stand by my original wording that it's a preference. His exact wording was "nothing bad but I'm [expletive] with my things" - this statement sounds like a preference thing. In addition, I've had my fair share of Android devices, and depending on what you do, they do overheat a bit. Even iOS devices do too.

#2 "Literally Brand New" - In my first response, I did mention that when he got it, it was "literally brand new." I didn't have this in the original item description, but I can see why people may not believe me on this. However, I considered it "literally brand new" because it was purchased from the store, opened to make sure the device was there, turned on once and then turned back off (hence "turned on once" as described). It was never used for its tablet functions, and to me it was in a state where it could still be considered brand new.

General side note on the depreciation / restocking fee - I can see why people are against this, but I'm still firmly for charging this. A full refund would mean that I lose out on the original shipping cost. Given that there was nothing wrong with the device, I'm not sure why the original shipping cost should come out of my pocket. Secondly, now that the device has no longer been fully in my possession, I cannot accurately describe to future buyers what this device has gone through. As a buyer, I would value this less, hence my rationale would be that the fee would help cover this devaluation.

If item worked and he bought it. Its his. If he wanted to do a full refund, I'd understand but a knock off fee is dumb. I'd offered full or none.

If it's not malfunctioning, which it doesn't seem to be, I think the buyer has to eat their decision. Don't like the tablet, that's one thing. But you shouldn't use the FS/FT section as a free preview--or even a paid preview, and decide to return it if you don't like it.

They're more than welcome to re-sell it if they don't like the device. But it doesn't seem to have been sold under false presentation.

Full or none.
Many transactions go over really well. Sticking my head in here reminds me to be cautious. I hope that I don't end up in the OP's situation.

Just because he doesn't like the preference and going back to iOS isn't your fault.

Refund or none.

Frankly, you don't get to return an item unless it's defective or not as described. Your description was quite clear, it's "like new" with plastic wrapping and all. I think it's a tactic to get you to do a partial refund. We've been seeing quite a few of these issues lately.

Also, cut the "restocking/depreciation" fee nonsense. Refund the money if it's defective or tell him to ******** off.

edit: PM me the name of the buyer, would love to have nothing to do with him/her.

I'm the buyer and just wanted to weigh in with my side of the story.


First of all this item is used, not brand new as he suggests. Yes granted it is extremely like new but the fact that he used it does not make it "literally brand new" as he puts it. I'm returning it the same way he sent it to me, with the screen cover from Samsung and all.


I usually never return stuff but since this was more for my grandparents than me mostly, and because they had trouble reading from it, I want to get a tablet that is easier on their eyes. And to be clear, I don't think overheating is considered a preference as he mentions. I actually have a situation with the device. When I was loading some photos onto the tablet the tablet was getting quite hot where I actually felt heat coming behind the tablet and case. I had other tablets before and never felt such heat from them before. But I will say that although it got hot it didn't freeze/crash or anything -- I was just suprised it got this hot since my Nexus 7 runs much cooler, but maybe it's just the way the device is.


I understand his point of view, because I am a seller too. And I appreciate that he is accepting this return. I also was doing my part as well, I didn't ask for a return label or I didn't disagree on his methods of "restocking fee" I just thought 30 dollars is a too high of a price.


Anyways, so we finally went with an agreement on cutting the restocking fee in half and went with 15 dollars, in addition to me paying for the return label. I even offered to send him a free case for the tablet which I purchased beforehand from Amazon and to include it as a token of gratitude for all his troubles but he declined.


He not really losing anything but I am, with the 15 dollars he deducting from the refund that money is really paying for shipping label when he sent me the tablet and I'm also paying for the return USPS label as well. So financially he good but I am sorry for his lost little time from this. It's really good that we live quite close from one another. He from NJ and I'm from NY. He will get his device within a day and two since I will pay for the better shipping. I'm even adding insurance and signature confirmation to cover both him and me.


All and all, we agree of me returning it and him deducting the 15 dollars. I don't really have the time with dealing with paypal and waiting for a long time to resolve this. Thankfully we agree and we could move along this. Thank you.

@squad, i don't see anywhere in the original thread that the seller describes the tablet as "brand new". He specifically said it was opened and used (assuming at least once).

Edit on the original message to even out the accounts.

@squad (and all the others against the fee) - I actually am losing on this; I would pay the cost of shipping if I were to fully refund the payment. To me, this is the main reason for the fee.

In addition, when I now resell the tablet, I am no longer selling as the original owner. As a buyer, I would definitely be weary of this and be more aggressive in my price negotiation. My other rationale for this was that the fee would help cover some of this negotiation. I'm sure everyone has negotiated pricing at one point or another, so this is just a way to make sure that I'm still getting a fair price for it.

@bail_w - My original post and description did not include this phrasing. I said that it was brand new when he first mentioned that he wanted a refund. My exact wording was "Hey, I'd normally be happy to take it back if it was used already, but given that it was literally brand new when you got it, it makes it difficult for me to take back and sell it as brand new still, since it has now been used for a bit."

In retrospect, perhaps the wording wasn't correct here, but I wanted to stress the condition it was in - specifically that prior to the sale, it had never been used for its tablet functions.

squad said:

I usually never return stuff but since this was more for my grandparents than me mostly, and because they had trouble reading from it, I want to get a tablet that is easier on their eyes. And to be clear, I don't think overheating...

Click to expand...

Your effort is generous. And a commendable reason, indeed. I suggest taking them by Best Buy next time to have a look and test some tablets before buying something from an individual seller.

Shipping isn't cheap. And it could have saved you both the hassle in this case.

As for the "overheating"... Some devices run hot. Others don't. It's not the sellers fault. Nor should he be dinged for something he didn't engineer or manufacture.

My iPhone5s gets hot when under heavy loads. You are dealing with a small device that has quite a bit of computing capability. Some devices run hotter than others.

From your post, you are stating you wanted a return due to the fact that the device was hard on your grandparents eyes. Tough shit man, thats your fault for purchasing an item that they obviously did not research. There is NOTHING you have stated that holds a valid reason for a return. You are returning it because your grandparents did not like the item. The fact that the seller is accepting it is amazing and shows what a truly great seller he is. I personally would never do business with you though.

If you want to try before you buy, goto the goddamn store, hold and try out the items you (or your grandparents) are interested in, then look into purchasing something you find new. Do not screw over a good seller because of your ignorance.

doz said:

My iPhone5s gets hot when under heavy loads. You are dealing with a small device that has quite a bit of computing capability. Some devices run hotter than others.

From your post, you are stating you wanted a return due to the fact that the device was hard on your grandparents eyes. Tough shit man, thats your fault for purchasing an item that they obviously did not research. There is NOTHING you have stated that holds a valid reason for a return. You are returning it because your grandparents did not like the item. The fact that the seller is accepting it is amazing and shows what a truly great seller he is. I personally would never do business with you though.

If you want to try before you buy, goto the goddamn store, hold and try out the items you (or your grandparents) are interested in, then look into purchasing something you find new. Do not screw over a good seller because of your ignorance.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I didn't know because like I said I had other device that didn't had that type of heat and like I said on my previous post " I was just surprised it got this hot since my Nexus 7 runs much cooler, but maybe it's just the way the device is."


I sent him a pm right away not like I kept the device for 3 weeks and decided to just pm him this and we agreed on the terms that I'm willing for him to take out 15 dollars for his troubles and also was willing to give him a case for the troubles.. I took a hit as well, not like I asked him to pay for everything and let him suffer for everything and I come out clean like nothing happen. I have good heatware and good ebay feedback. I would never do anything to make people mad or lie about things that weren't true.


@doz You need to learn how to type/talk to people because just the way you type that you seem extremely rude. You're 33 years old and this is how you communicate with people. I'm happy you will do no business with me just because you seem like a handful just the way you type that paragraph. The way FNtastic wrote is the correct way of explaining/typing something that you just wrote. Learn from him.

@FNtastic Thank you and you are right. Next time I need to do my homework little better on these newer devices. I seriously thought it was a faulty item.


Like I said I feel bad how things went with me and the seller. I packed everything neatly and I even saw a un box video on YouTube for this device and pack it the way the manufacture company packed it. It looks like the same way it came to me neat. I paid for better shipping and also insurance and signature require. So he could get his item faster and put it right up on the FS section.


Bottom line, everything is okay now. Just waiting for him to receive the item. Thank you.

looks like OP and buyer resolved it..

just one to add one thing for all sellers: you should have a return policy in your post, or agree to one before money changes hands

"3 days DOA return policy from delivery confirmation"

"Buyer pays return shipping, original shipping costs not refundable"

Hey fellas, just wanted to jump back in. I really appreciate everyone's responses so far. As I mentioned, the buyer and I have already worked out a resolution, so that is (hopefully) a testament to both of our transactional worthiness.

The purpose of this thread was just to allow other people to weigh in on the resolution itself and propose other ways of resolving conflicts such as these, so let's keep it productive.

I look forward to learning more on how to work these sorts of issues out. Thanks!

paperwastage said:

looks like OP and buyer resolved it..

just one to add one thing for all sellers: you should have a return policy in your post, or agree to one before money changes hands

"3 days DOA return policy from delivery confirmation"

"Buyer pays return shipping, original shipping costs not refundable"

Click to expand...

Not against this (many sellers already have DOA return policies), but in general, isn't it assumed that when you buy on a forum, it's final sale unless there's a defect?

aznfury684 said:

Not against this (many sellers already have DOA return policies), but in general, isn't it assumed that when you buy on a forum, it's final sale unless there's a defect?

Click to expand...

i agree, but it's better/easier to make things clearer (and avoid negative/neutral heatware/feedback)

for example, if you had a DOA policy clearly listed, then you could have pointed to stuff like this and asked the buyer to go away and contact samsung for a RMA , or accept your generous -$30 restocking fee

paperwastage said:

i agree, but it's better/easier to make things clearer (and avoid negative/neutral heatware/feedback)

for example, if you had a DOA policy clearly listed, then you could have pointed to stuff like this and asked the buyer to go away and contact samsung for a RMA , or accept your generous -$30 restocking fee

Click to expand...

Haha, true. Thanks!

Edit - Is the restocking fee really that "generous"? Normally, I'd just asked to have the shipping cost covered, but since this was a "new-ish" item, I felt like I was being left with something of less value.

aznfury684 said:

Not against this (many sellers already have DOA return policies), but in general, isn't it assumed that when you buy on a forum, it's final sale unless there's a defect?

Click to expand...

Yes, buyer remorse is unacceptable.

any item, laptop, phone, etc can get hot while being used. It's the nature of stuffing items in small cases.

I would not accept a return if there is no DOA. But in my opinion $30 restocking fee is acceptable. Tech stuff are time ticking bomb. 2-3 weeks may drop the price more than $30 + Seller also paid the shipping. I sold a ATI video card when IT was booming due to mining. Buyer wanted to return a week later. The market price went down close to $100.

So yea, $30 is generous. I would ask 15% + original shipping cost.