It's official, Nvidia will not support Mantle

I guess Eyefinity was a joke also ..but they copied it ..and I am sure they will copy the way AMD does crossfire without the ribbon.

Those two in the podcast remind me of a used car salesman as you can't believe a dam word there saying ...
 
fanboy said:
I guess Eyefinity was a joke also ..but they copied it ..and I am sure they will copy the way AMD does crossfire without the ribbon.

Those two in the podcast remind me of a used car salesman as you can't believe a dam word there saying ...
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gtx 480 was able to run SLI without bridge with drivers 258.96 any newer driver after that forced to use the bridge.. and was well explained by NVIDIA. actual cards like 290 and 290X can saturate PCI-Ex16 3.0 in Crossfire.. so for the upcoming cards that could be a problem.. the AMD eyefinity wasn't a joke AMD was focused in eyefinity since 2009, but Nvidia was focused with 3Dvision and 3D gaming since 2008, of course when you want to promote a technology you have to keep the focus in that for long time and if can i remember well, AMD enabled 3d gaming in 2011? 2012? i cant remember correctly and still its a very inconsistent and few brands are really certified AMD 3D and are very limited, so can we say AMD copied Nvidia? meh.. they have to go towards consumers want, nvidia had almost a monopoly with he 3dvision technology and AMD wanted to do the same, what can do amd? add support for that.. same with nvidia..
 
It's hard to imagine that we live in a world where somebody making an off-the-cuff remark in some podcast somewhere is construed as "an official statement from nvidia".

I guess when any jabroni can go out and buy a domain name for $10 you end up with these rubbish "reports".
 
jwcalla said:
It's hard to imagine that we live in a world where somebody making an off-the-cuff remark in some podcast somewhere is construed as "an official statement from nvidia".

I guess when any jabroni can go out and buy a domain name for $10 you end up with these rubbish "reports".
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any jabroni?

"On MaximumPCMagazine’s latest podcast, Nvidia finally took a stance on AMD’s Mantle. MaximumPCMagazine invited Nvidia’s Distinguished Engineer Tom Petersen and Senior Director of Engineering Rev Lebaradian who shared their thoughts about it, and confirmed that Nvidia is not part of it, will not support it, and there are – at least to them – no big benefits from using it."
 
Might not be a wise choice since there are alot of games coming out that support mantle.

OF course Mantle is in beta testing now, and who the fuck knows when AMD releases it. All I do know is if Intel supports mantle, Nvidia better support it or they will be left behind.

And if anyone wonders. the #1 graphics company in the world is Intel, not Nvidia or AMD.
 
Spazturtle said:
They will do a u-turn in a few months, like they do with everything.
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I doubt it. Despite some saying there's a lot of games that support mantle, I personally don't think there's all that many and even the ones that do often times don't see much improvement, and sometimes even run worse. And with DX12 out in about a year or so, it's not at all surprising or disappointing that they aren't supporting Mantle.
 
They actually are, MS approached AMD to help them.

Its been in more than one article.
 
GotNoRice said:
The two aren't the same thing just because they will both allow more low-level access to the hardware...
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Yeah, I'm quite interested when Mantle gets released on Linux and the portability path this creates for developers, something M$ won't let dx12 do. (on whatever version of windows it gets released in)
 
seanclayton said:
Why would they use something that's already dead when DX12 is coming.
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Nobody even uses DX 11.2

DX12 will require at minimum Windows 8.2

DX is windows only.

DX has a slow update time and is limited to new OS versions whilst Mantel will get yearly updates and only need a driver update.
 
Spazturtle said:
Nobody even uses DX 11.2

DX12 will require at minimum Windows 8.2

DX is windows only.

DX has a slow update time and is limited to new OS versions whilst Mantel will get yearly updates and only need a driver update.
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And usually new DX version also means a new GPU even though most stuff could probably be backported unless it actually requires new hardware.
 
Spazturtle said:
Nobody even uses DX 11.2

DX12 will require at minimum Windows 8.2

DX is windows only.

DX has a slow update time and is limited to new OS versions whilst Mantel will get yearly updates and only need a driver update.
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Windows only = much higher install base than AMD only. You say that like it's a negative, it isn't. Not when we look at the alternative.
 
supporting mantel would mean adopting GCN it will NEVER happen
 
no it does not, more FUD from Elios the nvidia shill.

ANYONE can write a driver for it, it only requires feature parity which nvidia already has.

this nonsense has been debunked a zillion times, why do you insist on repeating this garbage?
 
Well, this Mantle stuff is controlled by AMD. If they get to control a graphics standard, they have an advantage. They could implement it in a way that's biased towards their own hardware, and would be harder for another company to adopt. They might even have to pay AMD to let them figure out how to use it, either with money or with an offer of technology exchange.

If I were in charge of NVidia, I wouldn't support Mantle unless it had already taken over the market and I had no choice. I'd try to fight it and support an alternative standard that I wouldn't have to license from a competitor.

I don't really see how supporting Mantle would benefit NVidia. It hasn't achieved enough market penetration that failing to support it is unacceptable. There's still time to fight it, and then if it does take off... that's when they have to give in and support it. But obviously, that would be a worst-case scenario for them.
 
athenian200 said:
Well, this Mantle stuff is controlled by AMD. If they get to control a graphics standard, they have an advantage. They could implement it in a way that's biased towards their own hardware, and would be harder for another company to adopt. They might even have to pay AMD to let them figure out how to use it, either with money or with an offer of technology exchange.

If I were in charge of NVidia, I wouldn't support Mantle unless it had already taken over the market and I had no choice. I'd try to fight it and support an alternative standard that I wouldn't have to license from a competitor.

I don't really see how supporting Mantle would benefit NVidia. It hasn't achieved enough market penetration that failing to support it is unacceptable. There's still time to fight it, and then if it does take off... that's when they have to give in and support it. But obviously, that would be a worst-case scenario for them.
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I don't think you understand how Mantle works due to your post.
 
DracoNB said:
And usually new DX version also means a new GPU
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This hasn't been the case really since DX10 and feature levels. This is why DX11 games run on DX10 and DX10.1 cards just fine in almost all cases.
 
GotNoRice said:
This hasn't been the case really since DX10 and feature levels. This is why DX11 games run on DX10 and DX10.1 cards just fine in almost all cases.
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Lets not forgot the DX12 teaser featured the Snapdragon logo and the Xbox One, looks like they want it on mobile and existing hardware, hopefully that'll be the case with GPUs.
 
mi7chy said:
DX12 means forced upgrade to Windows 9 or higher. Mantle doesn't require a forced OS upgrade.
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Well everyone here will upgrade to Windows 9 for DX12 no matter how much they complain as it will be the #1 reason to upgrade. :) R.I.P. Win 7 64.
 
mi7chy said:
DX12 means forced upgrade to Windows 9 or higher. Mantle doesn't require a forced OS upgrade.
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I think ms said it will not require a new version of windows to run dx12..

The only thing I find odd about this is nvidia said they won't support mantle. I never really expected them to support mantle. I expected something along the lines of "we are looking into every option to improve our customers experience". Pr crap.
 
Mantle: I'd prefer it over DX12. DX comes with a high cost to developers. DX12 would (likely) mean a new OS and is limited to Windows, regardless. Mantle -should- be OS agnostic. But, to me, the biggest benefit of keeping Mantle away from Microsoft comes back to developers' cost. OpenGL allows independent houses to create great games. DX has a very high entry fee and continuing licensing costs. Mantle seems like a very attractive path. I'd hate to see it subsumed into DX12.
 
DX11 will be according microsoft easily portable to DX12 than Mantle but also it will not require new hardware or OS... any DX11 hardware capable (GPU) will work good with DX12 because the instructions change more at CPU level than any other thing.. so, at most what can require DX12 windows 8.1? at the end of all windows 7 support expire in 2015 right?. its a good moment to upgrade anyway..
 
I listened to that podcast. It would have been better with just Tom Petersen talking. He should have left the other guy at home.
 
If so, poor call on AMD's part. It's definitely in their best interest to have market accept mantle as a standard, but when 70% of cards cant use it, what programming team is gonna bother.
 
GotNoRice said:
This hasn't been the case really since DX10 and feature levels. This is why DX11 games run on DX10 and DX10.1 cards just fine in almost all cases.
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DX10.1 required extra hardware for all of the features, which is why it didn't work on 8000 series.

Hardware tessellation and Shader Model 5.0 require DX 11 supporting hardware. So while you can use some, you can't use all of the features

Maybe next time please don't misquote me, here was my full quote:

And usually new DX version also means a new GPU even though most stuff could probably be backported unless it actually requires new hardware.
 
Araxie said:
at the end of all windows 7 support expire in 2015 right?. its a good moment to upgrade anyway..
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"Mainstream" support ends in 2015, but "extended" support doesn't end until 2020. Mainstream support ending means nothing to the average user. Mainstream support for XP ended in 2009 but no one cared until Extended support ended earlier this year. It will be the same with 7.
 
DracoNB said:
DX10.1 required extra hardware for all of the features, which is why it didn't work on 8000 series.

Hardware tessellation and Shader Model 5.0 require DX 11 supporting hardware. So while you can use some, you can't use all of the features

Maybe next time please don't misquote me, here was my full quote:

And usually new DX version also means a new GPU even though most stuff could probably be backported unless it actually requires new hardware.
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Nothing needs to be "backported". This is how feature levels work:

featurelevels.png


Features that are not supported aren't used but the game will still run. So no, from the perspective of the consumer at least, a new DX version does NOT typically require a new GPU. If you were just talking about the developer perspective, you should have been a bit more specific.
 
Nvidia will support Mantle if and when they are forced to, like for example when it gets added to Linux and if SteamOS takes off and games start using Mantle. In that case Nvidia will do it. But unless/until that happens they will deem it a waste of time and money.

lol at the repeated claims that Mantle needs GCN or that AMD will collect royalties for it... You guys have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
 
GotNoRice said:
Nothing needs to be "backported". This is how feature levels work:

Features that are not supported aren't used but the game will still run. So no, from the perspective of the consumer at least, a new DX version does NOT typically require a new GPU. If you were just talking about the developer perspective, you should have been a bit more specific.
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That is what I was talking about yes.

Hardware specific features will not work on older GPUs.

What is funny is people are claiming that DX 12 features will work on every GPU yet Mantle won't once it is released...

AMD has stated why Mantle is limited in hardware now and that they will release drivers for more hardware once it is more stable and feature complete.
 
Ill say it again. If Intel adapts Mantle then Nvidia has no choice. #1 graphics company is intel.

Also remember Intel uses AMD's 64 bit code, so I wouldn't be shocked if they adopted it, specially since mantle doesnt require Windows OS.

Means it could work on Linux and even android.

Now of course this all depends if Intel adopts mantle. Guess we will have to wait until mantle is out of beta.
 
Intel wouldn't adopt mantle for the simple reason their architecture is so different from the current dedicated graphics cards. As AMD has pointed out many times mantle was designed for GCN. Low level api's must be tailored to their hardware, that's why it can access these low level functions.
 
Two things:

1. Mantle and DX12 are different things, although superficially both aim to solve the same problems. MS had DX12 in development in parallel with Mantle, and it would be hard to argue that MS wasn't pushed to do that by the announcement of Mantle in 2013. However, they seem to have significant differences in the design of core reusable command lists portion, and in other parts which look inspired primarily by Kepler's architecture (which should also work fine on GCN). It doesn't appear only one GPU vendor helped with DX12. As (mostly) usual, MS seems to have taken input from multiple vendors.

How each works to lower overhead are done via somewhat different approaches, and DX12 of course does not have particular optimization tied to GCN architecture, unlike proprietary Mantle.

2. Nobody could have seriously thought Nvidia was chomping on the bit waiting for AMD to "open" Mantle at the end of the year. It's an API optimized for GCN that *still* remains proprietary right now (as in the specs are not released, which makes sense as AMD continues to work on it). Given AMD's track record on these types of initiatives, Nvidia could simply wait for it to fail until DX12* was released and offer GameWorks as an alternative in the meantime. :p

* no doubt Nvidia and AMD were aware of DX12 long before its release; MS demo'd DX12 on Nvidia hardware and AMD had a separate DX12 demo on the day it was officially announced.

Gee, why didn't everyone adopt MeTaL when S3 made it? /snark
 
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