ZOTAC GeForce 9300-ITX WiFi

praxis1452

n00b
Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
49
Nice pictures.
Are you a professional photographer ?


You mean ...

1st PC from the left = 177W
2nd PC from the left = 149W
3rd PC from the left = 59W

The exact configuration for each PC would have been interesting to know, for us to understand why the different wattages.
As well consumes a PC a different wattage in idle (most economic) than on full load (highest consumption).

I am about to build the same board with the CPU E8400 or Q9550S and only one 3.5 HDD.
No external graphics card and no optical drive.
I would like to know what minimum power the PSU needs to have.

I have chosen the Mini iTX PC case AOpen S 100, which only has space enough for a Pico PSU that comes in either 60W, 95W, 105W or 150W.
Would 150W be enough for me I wonder ?

Has anyone got a Pico PSU in operation and could tell or can I calculate the consumption ? ... but what figures could I use for the board, memory, CPU (idle / load) and HDD ?

Board = x W
Memory = x W
CPU = from x W to x W
HDD = x W
-----------------------------------
Total = x (minimum) to x W (maximum)

I believe quad core not i7 tdp is 95W. 65W for one of the energy efficient quad cores.

125W for i7 cpu's.

Also, hard drive takes like 10W. onboard graphics/motherboard I have no idea. Probably under 20W I would think but I could be wrong.
 

Cov

Gawd
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
917
Alright, so that woud be ...

CPU ~ 65W (is that idle or full load?)
HDD ~ 10W
Board ~ 20W
Memory = (incl in board's consumption)
-----------------------
Total = approx 100 W ?? ...
 

beto

Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
529
Alright, so that woud be ...

CPU ~ 65W (is that idle or full load?)
HDD ~ 10W
Board ~ 20W
Memory = (incl in board's consumption)
-----------------------
Total = approx 100 W ?? ...

If you are going to stick with a 65W TDP CPU then I think you should be fine with something like the 120W PicoPSU with a 120W brick. You could get their newer 150W version but you would still be limited to 120W's because, as I understand it, that is the largest brick they have. There are other, larger wattage bricks out there to be had but, because of the connector, hacking the plug and splicing is necessary.

This post over at AVS Forum (and the thread it comes from) and this build log are worth checking out IMO.
 
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Cov

Gawd
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Dec 3, 2007
Messages
917
Thank you very much beto !!!!!

So ... 42 to 46 Watt (idle) and up to 91W (full load) for the CPU.

I think I'm gonna order a 150W Pico PSU ... that should work.
And regardin the 110V / 220V to 12V transformer brick thingy, I will search for what's available.

Only thing I'm disappointed about is that this kind of PSU cost more than a high quality standard ATX PSU.
The AOpen S 100 Mini iTX case and the PSU is going to cost me approx $320 to $340 (250Euro).
 

burnoutmalle

Weaksauce
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
65
@Cov

Nope, just a hobby.

Is it possible, that the Zotac can´t handle 2x2GB with 4-4-4-12-1T?

If I change the ram-settings, the board won´t boot anymore. :(
 

Cov

Gawd
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
917
Sorry burnoutmalle, I wouldn't know.

I read somewhere that the Geil Black Dragon RAM are bad overclockers.
Actually I have the same in my mATX system (Asus P5E-VM hdmi) but never modified the RAM settings.

Sometimes I still have some serious booting issues (intermittent), and after a while investigating I found my RAM modules to be the trouble maker.
As awesome looking as they are with their red dragon eyes LEDs, I won't buy them again.

For my new Mini iTX system, first I was thinking of getting 2 x 4GB modules, but they cost about 4 x the price of 2 x 2GB !!!!!
That's crazy. So, at the end I have decided now for the G.Skill F2-6400CL4D-4GBHK.


One more question regarding the Pico PSU ... picture here:

1b5z04.jpg


You can see the 20 Pin molex connector (yellow) and the power connector for HDD = PATA (white) & SATA (black) and Floppy.
Don't know what the socket is for on the very right. For power in from the 12V transformer ?
But the cable seems too short, hmm.

Now, what about the 4 Pin power connector for the socket highlighted in the white circle below ?
That's for the CPU, isn't it ? The PSU above doesn't show that connector.

1ajy97.jpg
 

beto

Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
529
You can see the 20 Pin molex connector (yellow)

You know what? I just noticed something - check out this picture:

media.nl;jsessionid=0a0108421f43740b84284ade4906b880d031d6a842ac.e3eTaxePaNqNe34Pa38Ta38OaNz0


Count the pins. That's weird huh? I bet you the 150 PSU has a 24 Pin connector. Your pic definitly showed only 20 unless we are both nuts but the description and this pic say 24. I would email them and ask though.

Don't know what the socket is for on the very right. For power in from the 12V transformer ?
But the cable seems too short, hmm.

Yes that is what it is. Too short for what? Oh I see what you mean. I have to run right now but I think they do have extensions for certain wiring that might give you enough room.

Now, what about the 4 Pin power connector for the socket highlighted in the white circle below ?
That's for the CPU, isn't it ? The PSU above doesn't show that connector.

Here maybe? Or this wiring addition. I think (not at all positive) they will actually add that extra bit of wiring for you upon request. Check around their site or email them. I hear they are fairly responsive to questions.
 

Cov

Gawd
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
917
Aaaaahhhhh, I see ......

media.nl


48mm in length .... there is NO WAY, I can use this PSU out of the box. I need to custom soldier ALL cables .... OMG !!, but ok.

... Check around their site or email them ...
Will do. Thank you :)
 

beto

Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
529
Aaaaahhhhh, I see ......

48mm in length .... there is NO WAY, I can use this PSU out of the box. I need to custom soldier ALL cables .... OMG !!, but ok.

PicoPSU has a great reputation but the aren't the only ones selling these SFF style PSU's.

I haven't really read much of the past few pages and I have not checked on the case you are planning to use but, if there is enough room in the case, there is this Morex 150W PSU (another link - Logic Supply) that looks like it has longer cables and perhaps the necessary 4 pin. There is also this Casetronic 120W PSU. I haven't looked at them too closely but they do appear to only have a 20 pin main connector. But then there is this 20 Pin to 24 Pin ATX Converter - Adapter. I am not entirely sure if all of those components would work well together in terms of supplying enough power through that adapter or not. Best just to get some advice from some experts. The PicoPSU folks should be able to tell you what will work and what won't.

Good luck and let me know what you find out if you have the time. I am curious myself.

Edit: Ok so I checked out the AOpen case you are planning to use - If you aren't completely sold on it and are looking for other suggestions, I am sort of partial to this Morex T3500 case. It is only slightly larger than the one you are looking at and it comes with a 150W power supply kit for around $120. This fellow's build thread is what turned me on to the case.
 
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robaer

n00b
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
20
Hello

I just assembled my htpc using the Zotac9300 and the Morex T3500. I opted for an external Optical Disk Drive even though the case has room for a slim drive because I plan on using this as a PVR and not bluray player. The external USB ODD allows me to load the OS etc and then remove it... but reattach if I want to update or load some other form of media from time to time. I plan on putting the box behind my system as my previous htpc was never touched and just took up valuable shelf space up front. I took some pics of the assembly and final product I will post.

BETO - The Morex PSU works well with this board. All the connectors worked excellent. Since the Zotac uses a SATA ODD as well as SATA HDD I did buy a PATA-SATA converter in case I wanted 2 SATA power connectors (I wasn't sure if I would go with the external drive for a while). The case is super good for keeping things cool. I removed the fan from my CPU heatsync (stock Intel HS) and use just one large ultra quiet 140mm fan on top of the CPU and Northbridge heatsyncs. I haven't pulled temp stats yet but the Intel DG45CF board that runs much hotter than the 9300 is accepaible in this config and I expect they will be well within tolerances.

I had considered other cases and using the Pico PSU as well. There is a lot of other forums that discuss the ability to use a 20 pin on a 24 pin board. Those 4 missing pins provide a cable to power the PCI card (ie if you are putting in a power hungry video card) so you can use the 20 pin molex on the 24 without any hacking as long as you dont intend to power a card like that. They fit.

COV - You WILL need the 4 pin molex to power the CPU.... so buy the one shown further down the thread. This is the one you want to get and you will notice the DC feed has an adapter on it so you can extend the cable to the back of your case for input if it doesn't reach. Lots of good things said about this PSU and if my case didn't come with a PSU already I would have gotten one.
http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-150-XT?sc=8&category=981
 

beto

Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
529
Thanks for chiming in with some first hand knowledge robaer. That is truly helpful.

cov - look at this pic:

image2.jpg


That is the 150W PicoPSU from robaer's link. It shows both a 24 pin main connector and the 4 pin cpu/aux connector - you wouldn't need to solder anything. And the wires look decently long - as robaer points out the actual DC feed wires can be extended. I thought that was the setup. I remember researching the PSU a few months back and thinking it was ideal for those reasons. Where are you getting those pics you are posting? They don't seem correct.
 
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Cov

Gawd
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
917
Avalanche of information allert !!

haha ... ok, let me say that all your help is really so much appreciated !!
As you know, researching for computer components takes time but is a great fun.

I'm so excited to build my next "minimalistic" system and for the benefit of getting real small, I will leave the optical drive completely away.
First I got excited for the Lian Li PC-Q07 but the arrangement of the internals just doesn't make any sense.
Full ODD might be still ok, but not a full ATX PSU !! That thing takes about 50% of the case volume away already .... that's CRAZY for Mini iTX !!!!


Then I looked around more and found these tiny Mini iTX cases interesting ...

... Coolermaster TC100A ... 200 mm (w) x 256 mm (d) x 75 mm (h) ... note that the A-version is not available anywhere yet. According to Coolermaster it's still in beta phase despite showing up on their website. In my eyes it's beautiful though.

... M350 ... 192 x 210 x 62mm ... I can't imagine any smaller than that. In fact it might be too small and cause thermal problems ?

... JCP MI-102 ... 180 mm (w) x 242 mm (d) x 65 mm (h) ... It looks ok to me and it comes with a slim DVD bay behind a lid, hmm ...

... A Open S 100 / S 110 / S 120A ... 70.8 x 193.8 x 197mm (S100) ... I like the looks as well the material quality (aluminium) - although quite pricy.

... Morex T3500 ... 92 (h) x 200 (w) x 235 (d) ... This one seems perfect in every way. The size !! The PSU is strong enough AND even included !! The cooling system with all the vent holes is just great !! ... but the only downside is >>> I'm not a fan of the looks, sorry.


... my next reply is gonna be about the PSU ...
 

Dangman

Ninja Editor SuperMod
Joined
Dec 15, 2005
Messages
46,062
Alright, so that woud be ...

CPU ~ 65W (is that idle or full load?)
HDD ~ 10W
Board ~ 20W
Memory = (incl in board's consumption)
-----------------------
Total = approx 100 W ?? ...

Almost right. A HDD can take up to 25W at startup. But it'll take around 10W idling/reading on occasion. You still have to factor in the HDD's 25W startup usage though.
 

Cov

Gawd
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
917
Ok I don't know how you guys work with your computer, but I always thought one PC has to be able to do A N Y T H I N G you wanna do with it.
I have come now to the point where I see that specializing our PCs does make perfectly sense.

My main PC will be kept for playing PC games and maybe for things requiring a powerful PC ... video editing and stuff.
The new Mini iTX system is going to be used for surfing the internet (which I do a lot) and watching movies / listening to music.
It doesn't take a high end graphics card and several HDDs for that, so .. that mini PC will be SPOT ON !!! :cool:

Only thing uncertain is the PSU ... the Zotac has a 24 pin Molex- and a 4 pin (P4) connector.
I want to make sure that the wattage is high enough for peak usage.
Ideal would be to have some head room for example for a secondary HDD or ODD (temporary or permanent).
But then again, once SSD prices come down from the sky for mass imigration, they'd use less power than HDDs.

Another point is heat ... what I have read is that Pico PSUs stay surprisingly cool.

Will research some more. There seems to be people who're enthusiastic with Mini iTX ... silentpcreview is just another source.
There is a lot of reading involved ... so it's gonna take for me a little to report back, but I should start a new thread instead of hijacking this one ? haha :p

Will do ...
 

robaer

n00b
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
20
COV - like you I wanted a very specialized PC. I liked the M350 and Morex3500 (because they were both designed to not be shelf show pieces (ie most htpc cases are intended to look at home under or beside your TV and you pay for that). I wanted mine to be super small and mount out of sight based on my first htpc build which had a great looking Micro-ATX case that never got touched and ate up real estate where I didnt want it
.
If you really want the idea compact mini pc chasis though... this is your baby
http://tsunamitech.webnode.com/smart-pc-chassis/
Over at the AVS forums, there is a user "opentoideas" who has done a sweet job integrating the zotac into this case and has had fantastic results for heat and power. You might want to research that.
The downside is lack of room for any PCI-1 card you might want without getting very creative... but its the nicest case for minimalist htpc I have seen personally.
 

Cov

Gawd
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
917
Thanks :)

tsunami-2.JPG


Tsunami Smart PC Mini iTX Aluminium Case 80W PSU

Case size: (W) 315× (D) 210× (H) 63 mm
 

robaer

n00b
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
20
Got time this weekend

You can see all the installation photos (posted 13 of them ) showing assembly and final product.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1111996&page=19
(posts 545, 546 and 547)

The System (all prices Canadian $)

* CPU: Pentium Dual-Core E8500 3.16 GHz LGA775, $120.
* CPU Cooler: (used stock intel that came with CPU, fan cut off) $0.
* Motherboard: ZOTAC GeForce 9300-ITX WiFi GF9300-D-E LGA775 GeForce 9300 mGPU Mini-ITX, $145.
* Memory: Patriot DDR2 4GB (2 x 2GB) PC2-6400, $47.
* Graphics Card: GeForce 9300 (integrated in the chipset), $0.
* HDD: Western Digital 320GB Scorpio Black 7200rpm SATA II Notebook, $89.
* PSU: ATX12V 150W brick PSU (included in the case): $0.
* Case: Morex T3500 fanless: ~$200 including shipping.
* FAN: 140mm x 20mm Aerocool chrome fan with BLUE LED
* Tuner: Haupauge external USB ATSC/NTSC dongle: $89.
* Total Cost: ~$680 (including cables and misc parts)

Working and running smoothly... actually too smoothly. I am bored now.
 

fr500

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
1,069
Hi, I'm new, I have assembled like a dozen of atom powered PCs for my friends, using APEX MI-100 cases

... JCP MI-102 ... 180 mm (w) x 242 mm (d) x 65 mm (h) ... It looks ok to me and it comes with a slim DVD bay behind a lid, hmm ...
/QUOTE]

Thats just a rebranded APEX MW-100 it seems, it's a good case but PSU is on the weak
side it works with D945GCLF/2 though, may have some cooling issues though
 

beto

Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
529
Valnar, Yeah that case is great. I really like the look of it, though I would go with the black face myself. Too expensive for my blood though.
 
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beto

Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
529
Got time this weekend

You can see all the installation photos (posted 13 of them ) showing assembly and final product.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1111996&page=19
(posts 545, 546 and 547)


Great build robaer. Really nice and almost exactly what I was thinking of doing. Few of quick questions if you have the time...

To your knowledge, is there a way to shut off the LED's on that AeroCool fan or would you have to find wires and clip them? You said it was quiet - how quiet? I know that is subjective but if you are say 2 feet from the thing - can you hear it? Reason I ask is that I am seriously considering scraping my gaming rig for a while and trying to live life with a build like yours (w/the internal DVD though) and am wondering if I have it sitting on my desk 2 feet from me, if it will be quiet. Also, that is a 20mm thick fan, do you think this 25mm thick Scythe would work or would it be too thick?

You said you tried a LP PCIe card in that slot - this got me really excited - but, dude, is there a slot/opening in the back of that case for the card?? I could have sworn that there was no expansion slot bracket and thus no opening for an expansion card on that case. Am I missing something? Say I wanted, for some crazy reason, to install a LP graphics card in the future - how would I attach the DVI or HDMI cable to the card? Do you understand what I am asking?
 

robaer

n00b
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
20
BETO - Thanks...

The LED's can be easily clipped and is likely the best way to do this. The wires are exposed on all 4 legs (one each corner). It's not a 4 wire fan (only 3.. ie not a variable speed) so I would just snip the LED wires if you don't want them on. I was actually going to do that, but liked the look when I first fired it up so much that I decided to leave it on. the blue on/off light on the switch itself has its own wiring harness so you can just avoid hooking it up and that light is not desired either. These are the only lights on the case.

It is REALLY quiet.... quitest fan I have heard. When its on my table, I stop hearing any noise from about 3-4 feet away. you have to really listen for it. Put it this way, if it wasn't for the light, I would have to put my ear down to the fan or feel for airflow to know its on.

20 mm is a must with this case, otherwise you have to replace the northbridge heatsync or shave 5 mm's off it. The fan touches the grill and the heatsync when case it closed. I happened to have a 25mm fan on hand and tried that before buying the 20mm unit (it happened to be noisy as well). I could put the lid on... but could not close it enough to screw it on... and it looked goofy because the fan was not parallel with the grate. It fits so perfect that 1 mm more and I think the fan would "clink" on something... 1mm less and I would have had to screw it into the grill so it would not rattle. I also had to adjust the wires in the 24pin molex so that it is lower than the HS... otherwise it pushes the fan to far towards the back.

If you get 140x140mm fan, it fits the width of the grill exactly... and you don't need to screw the fan into the case as it holds it square and tight. a 120mm fan would need to be centered and couple of screws to keep it sliding around.

As for the pci card... first I didnt install the wireless (because my box is using the Gigabit fixed network anyway and it would just create heat and clutter). If you want to use wireless and a PCI card, I dont think this case would have enough room.

As for the back plate, in line with the PCI slot is the 3 punch outs for the i/f shield that are not used by this board (ie next to the 3 audio plugs there are another row of 3 holes you can punch out). You _could_ dremal out the plug opening for your PCI remove the cards bracket (ie card would use the flimsy shield for support)...
I will measure the height from MOBO to case top so you can make an educated guess if you decided hacking your card would still be ok... but the width of this slot (with the HS and SATA plugs right next to it) is super narrow, so I would be concerned about the graphics card heat and airflow impact.
I think the pci slot is best for firewire, mini tuner or less power intensive cards that dont require heat disapation and may even be more LP than usual. Also... I need to refresh my memory about whether the PSU provides a power cable to juice your graphics card.... you might need to bring one of the power cables up from below with an adapter to feed that if it needs it.
BTW, I pinged the vendor before buying and they said "no" but it didn't stop me from tinkering with the idea... since I had the backup of a USB tuner device. I have to admit,, I didnt mod the bracket or card, just looked at whether I could place it in.. so there might have been some other conflict (ie I dont know if a thick DVI cable would have enough room on back to attach... hdmi is thinner and might.)

BTW, I havent tried it.. but both the board can drive multiple monitors with vga, dvi and hdmi options for one or the other.... but I am not convinced the 9300 chipset is future proof enough for you to game on... so I get why you would want the slot to be useable someday if you are gaming.
I remember considering a box similar to the 3500 that had the space to daughter card off the PCI and I think that would be a better option for you as (with a ribbon PCI extender) you could mount below the board and not have the problem... I will see if I still have a link to that case... it was modular... you could buy 1U, 2U etc as add ons.
 

Valnar

2[H]4U
Joined
Apr 3, 2001
Messages
3,748
Valnar, Yeah that case is great. I really like the look of it, though I would go with the black face myself. Too expensive for my blood though.

Yep, I got the black faceplate model. It was expensive.
 

beto

Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
529
Thanks for the info robaer.

If you get 140x140mm fan, it fits the width of the grill exactly... and you don't need to screw the fan into the case as it holds it square and tight.

That's amazing. Almost too good to be true. I bet you had a huge grin on your face when you realized the fit. As an aside, I am considering getting a dust filter or dust filters to cover that top intake - like these DEMCiflex filters for instance - but I am wondering how much that would effect airflow. I am not sure if a filter would even be worth it seeing as there is only one big intake fan creating a positive pressure environment, and hopefully blowing the majority of the dust out the side vents anyway. I guess the only way to find out is, if I think I need them after running the system for awhile, to buy a few of the filters and see. If you wouldn't mind, give me a close-as-you-can exact measurement of the top mesh vent. I am curious what might work.

As for the PCIe slot and card.... yeah I figured it was a pipe dream with this case. I just thought that perhaps one day (relatively soon?) we might see more powerful, lower powered (just using the slot for power), low profile discrete graphics cards and that it would be nice if this case, which I personally think is a winner for many reasons, could accommodate an LP graphics card.

There are ways to make it work right now if that is what I really want. Just not with the Morex T3500. I am seriously considering making some modifications to this guys custom built case and building something similar (albeit not in electric blue..lol) that would house something like this power supply which would be plenty to power a good setup based on the Zotac board with a Radeon HD4770 for instance. Just going back and forth right now on whether or not I really "need" a graphics card anymore. I would like the option but I game less and less these days.
 

robaer

n00b
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
20
I just had the case open and took some measurements of the slot. It would have to be a 45mm card from bottom of pins to top edge of card OR exactly 40mm from top of PCI-e slot housing. The back plate might be offset the wrong way for a PCI to fit (ie the opneing is to the left if looking at the back instead of on the right of the slot).
If you went with a CPU fan alone I could see, a daughter card with it horizontal over Northbridge and pushed back so the connector was inside the case _might_ work.. but to be honest I dont think this is the right case for that. The PCI is really not an option the more I start to look at it.

I'll grab some photos next time of the grill. I am feeling a healthy exhaust of air out the sides and even top by where the PSU sits (because the vvent on top is 140mm wide and 180mm long opening... about 40mm over the PSU circuitry is exhausting air. those filters would be fine, should not impact airflow with a fan this size.

Thats a slick case you linked. I saw a guy on the avs forums (about 4 posts past my photos) fab'd a case out of black plexi that is similar... and he put a 3.5 HDD inside and slim optical with creative mounts.

That PSU is way overkill for this mobo. I dont have a power meter at home but I bet I am barely drawing 70Watts even with the dvd playing externally. Youve got about 200 Watts of power to spare..nothing wrong with that, but the PSU is likely twice as loud as the mobo fan and if its beside you, thats noise to power rating you might not get back.

I throw up the photos once I get the loaded off camera.
 

beto

Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
529
but to be honest I dont think this is the right case for that. The PCI is really not an option the more I start to look at it.

No, it isn't. I really didn't think it was either, which is why I mentioned potentially building a case. I just got excited when you mentioned that you thought a LP card might fit. I thought the case was too short/narrow from jump.

I'll grab some photos next time of the grill. I am feeling a healthy exhaust of air out the sides and even top by where the PSU sits (because the vvent on top is 140mm wide and 180mm long opening... about 40mm over the PSU circuitry is exhausting air. those filters would be fine, should not impact airflow with a fan this size.

So it's 140mm by 180mm then? That's great. And, by the way you are describing the exhaust, I could probably get away with only covering the 140mm fan with one filter. I had thought I would need to cover the entire top vent but I should be able to leave the extra 40mm alone as air is being expelled there too.

That PSU is way overkill for this mobo. I dont have a power meter at home but I bet I am barely drawing 70Watts even with the dvd playing externally. Youve got about 200 Watts of power to spare..nothing wrong with that, but the PSU is likely twice as loud as the mobo fan and if its beside you, thats noise to power rating you might not get back.

Yes, I realize that. I must not have been very clear. I would build a custom case and use that Seasonic PSU if I decided to go with something like the Zotac ITX board, a Q9400 (or perhaps Q9400s), HDD(s), fans, ODD, and a discrete graphics card. The issue is that, to my knowledge, there is no Pico style PSU powerful enough for a rig like that. Primarily because there are no complementary high-powered bricks. The shame of it is that there is a serious lack of truly decent SFF PSU's in the 200w - 300w range. I have researched them a bit and that Seasonic appeared to be the best combo of size and power available. I certainly didn't want more than 300w's.

As it stands, I think I am just going to make the decision to build a rig with the Morex case at some point this Summer. I don't feel like fabing a custom case right now as I have a ton of other small projects coming up. I am just going to go without the graphics card and games for awhile and see if that works for me.

I throw up the photos once I get the loaded off camera.

That'd be great. Would love to see them. It's a big help to have folks with first hand experience with a product showing and telling. Just a suggestion but you might want to consider starting a new thread about your build so your info doesn't get lost in this thread.
 

__Miguel_

Gawd
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
536
The issue is that, to my knowledge, there is no Pico style PSU powerful enough for a rig like that. Primarily because there are no complementary high-powered bricks.
If you can squeeze all that that stuff into 200W peak power output, then you DO have alternatives.

Not that I think it's actually possible to fit a quad (even an "S series") AND a decent GPU (most of them draw at least 75W, unless you only want very basic processing power, in which case the IGP might be enough) in a 200W TDP, but it it fits that power envelope, you can get a PW-200-M or a PM-200-V and custom-mod a 1st-gen XBox 360 power brick, which handles 16.5A on the 12V rail...:eek::D

More than 200W on an Ultra SFF is harsh... If you have that kind of power output, then you'll NEED the extra space for ventilation, and you might as well to with a standard PSU.

Cheers.

Miguel
 

beto

Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
529
Miguel,

Yes, I knew about the 200V and 200M. And like I said earlier up thread there would be issues with both modding bricks and the connectors supplied by the PSU itself. 200W, even if you got and modded the brick you wanted, you would be pushing it because if the system runs near 85% - 90%+ peak PSU capacity consistently, well, as I understand it, that could be an issue.

As for "needing extra space" for ventilation... What do you mean by "Ultra" SFF? Does 10" x 10" x 5.5" qualify? Cause if it does, I am confident I could cool the components I listed earlier just fine with a custom case of those dimensions. In fact, I bet I could cool it better than your standard or mid-tower. Extra space can be a hindrance also. Airflow/airspeed to and on the components is what is important. Proximity of fans to the components is important. For instance, I have a CoolerMaster Centurion and the thing sucks ass IMO. It is completely open in front (all mesh), louder than hell with 3 "quiet" case fans running and too spacious to maintain good airspeed/flow over the components. The fans are simply too far removed - things in the case are too widely spaced. Yes I could have louder, higher CFM fans but who wants the noise?

So what is "Ultra" SFF? I would submit that any case that allows for even a reference Radeon HD4770 could never be considered "Ultra SFF" in the first place. That's not what I think of as Ultra SFF anyway.
 

__Miguel_

Gawd
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
536
Yes, I knew about the 200V and 200M. And like I said earlier up thread there would be issues with both modding bricks and the connectors supplied by the PSU itself. 200W, even if you got and modded the brick you wanted, you would be pushing it because if the system runs near 85% - 90%+ peak PSU capacity consistently, well, as I understand it, that could be an issue.
I must have missed that post, or I've forgotten it already.

But you're right, the cables might melt. The XBox 360 brick has 6+1 (3xground, 3x+12V, 1x+5VSB) connectors for a reason, right? AND 85% peak constant PSU load is just asking for it. That's why I said "If you can squeeze". It's not wise to tax the hardware that much, and for that much time.

What do you mean by "Ultra" SFF? Does 10" x 10" x 5.5" qualify?
If my math is ok, that's about 9 liters. That's too large to fit that bill, that's more of a rather small SFF, you can pretty much fit anything you want/need in that volume. USFF shouldn't be much larger than an M350 by mini-Box, or an Apex MI-100 (this on the "large" side of USFF, probably anything big enough to fit a 3.5'' drive should be out of that form factor). But that's just me compartimentalazing things, others might disagree.

In fact, I bet I could cool it better than your standard or mid-tower.
Yes, most standard-sized boxes are horrible to keep things cool with low noise. And I totally understand where you come from, I've got a Centurion 5 myself...

The thing is, the smaller the case, the harder and more expensive it is to build (everything overlaps at some point, and more bits and crannies are needed to fit everything) AND to assemble. Your IT DIY guy might love a case like that if it was a build-and-forget thing (which seldom is in the first place, us IT DIYs are known for constant rebuilding machines), but OEMs would HATE that kind of case, productivity on the assembly line would plummet.

The Centurion 5 only really needs about 10-15 minutes of assembly time, plus 5-10 minutes more of cable management hassle (if you care about that); an Asus TM-210 takes the same 15 minutes just to figure out the correct order in which to take the bloody thing appart and back up again... motherboard placement is HELL, and you actually need at least three hands with fingers that bend both ways to properly navigate the case...

So, yeah, I'm with you, but there IS a reason for ATX (and even plenty of uATX-based OEM PCs) still existing even after only one or two expansion slots being used on most of-the-shelf computers...

I would submit that any case that allows for even a reference Radeon HD4770 could never be considered "Ultra SFF" in the first place.
Agreed. If you want to use a full-height expansion slot, USFF is out. That rule of thumb can probably be bent a little if you're talking about short HDD controllers and you fit them paralel to the motherboard (I'm thinking Chenbro's 4-drive NAS case here, though that also doesn't fit USFF).

Cheers.

Miguel


P.S.: beto, are you portuguese by any chance? Your nickname is rather popular among the many "Alberto"s in Portugal. Not to mention the soccer player :p
 

beto

Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
529
The thing is, the smaller the case, the harder and more expensive it is to build (everything overlaps at some point, and more bits and crannies are needed to fit everything) AND to assemble. Your IT DIY guy might love a case like that if it was a build-and-forget thing (which seldom is in the first place, us IT DIYs are known for constant rebuilding machines), but OEMs would HATE that kind of case, productivity on the assembly line would plummet.

Great point. You are absolutely correct and I had not given it enough thought in that regard. Perhaps there will never be a day when Dell or eMachines is heavily invested in truly SFF systems. Just too labor intensive. And the average Joe user isn't even aware of the potential really. They buy systems based on avoiding tinkering and hassles.

P.S.: beto, are you portuguese by any chance? Your nickname is rather popular among the many "Alberto"s in Portugal. Not to mention the soccer player :p

Nope - American of primarily Franco/Northern European descent though I have been told that there is a Portuguese Corsican forefather somewhere in my past. Beto is a nickname from a Spanish speaking former girlfriend of mine. I am Robert(o) and she called me Beto. I loved that woman :) I have also grown into being a futbol fan these past few years but I confess I am not familiar with Alberto. I know of Figo and C. Ronaldo but not Alberto.

Totally off topic but it is interesting being a outsider to European football. I am not sure if mine is an average American's perspective but I am having trouble finding a club to support. I find the level of play in the EPL and La Liga to be amazing but, at the same time, I find the play of certain top level players in European leagues to be frustrating. All the diving and whining and crying - it's irritating.
 

AP2

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
1,541
anyone use windows 7 with this motherboard?

ive installed windows 7, but powerdvd insists that my graphic card driver is not compatible to for bluray playback. im using onboard graphics.

any work around this?
 

beto

Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
529
anyone use windows 7 with this motherboard?

ive installed windows 7, but powerdvd insists that my graphic card driver is not compatible to for bluray playback. im using onboard graphics.

any work around this?

Not sure that it matters but Win7 64 or 32 bit? Have you tried getting the drivers directly from nvidia's site? The Zotac site only has drivers for XP, Vista and Linux but the nvidia drop down search does have Windows 7 drivers listed.

NVIDIA Driver Downloads
GeForce/ION Driver Release 185 WHQL
Version: 185.85
Release Date: May 06, 2009
Operating System: Windows 7 (64-bit)
Language: U.S. English
File Size: 99.5 MB

Under "Products Supported" it lists Geforce 9300. That is the same 9300 correct? I mean there is no discrete 9300 only a 9300 IGP no? nvidia confuses the crap out of me.
 
Last edited:

RVWinkle

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Messages
173
The easy way to get PowerDVD to work without dealing with DRM and HDCP is to use the software AnyDVD HD by slysoft. I personally consider it a must have for any HTPC.
 

cre3d

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Messages
487
Just wanted to report that my previous SPDIF audio skipping issue is completely gone after replacing the motehrboard with a new one from newegg. I'm gonna chalk it up to a freak audio/northbridge chipset fault.
 

Cov

Gawd
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
917
@ cre3d ... that's good to hear and thanks for letting us know !!
I remember that you mentioned that before but I couldn't think of any reasonable explanation.
Guess newegg have replaced the board as part of the warranty ?
 

cre3d

Limp Gawd
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Messages
487
I just ordered a new board because I am impatient but the old one was rma'd back last week. I still have to call and see if they will refund the restocking fee of $30. I buy thousands of dollars in parts from them every month so hopefully they hook me up considering the headache that this board was to diagnose!
 

beto

Gawd
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
529
I still have to call and see if they will refund the restocking fee of $30. I buy thousands of dollars in parts from them every month so hopefully they hook me up considering the headache that this board was to diagnose!

If you spend thousands a month with them and they don't waive the restocking fee, there is something seriously wrong with them.
 

robaer

n00b
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
20
BETO - Did a quick measurement while taking photos of the inside of the T3500. The top grill opening 140mm x 167mm to be exact. I'll post the photos of the grill later this evening for you.
AP2 - I have Windows 7 installed but I am not using a blu-ray drive so I don't know about those drivers, but I am running 64bit and had no problems with the drivers so far for non-bluray stuff. I did install the HD Audio drivers when I realized the headphone jack line out wasn't showing up as a device (ie showed the hdmi audio pumping out the tunes though which surprised me). Other than that, no other issues so far.
 
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