ZEN 3 performs best when paired with RTX 3000???

Seems like if you configure it right it provides an exceptional upgrade but there are several ways to hold it back. Essentially don't cheap out on memory and GPU if you want the benefit, and get the right speed of memory and make sure there are 4 ranks, ie either 4 DIMMs with 1 rank or 2 DIMMS with 2 ranks and 3600 CL16 and above. Pretty simple
 
I should have made a better title for the post. What I find interesting is that AMD has made a big deal about pairing a ZEN3 processor with an AMD 6k video card and how that offers increased performance over NVIDEA rtx 3000 series. Here we have an article showing AMD beating intel only when paired with an rtx 3000. Good stuff for enthusiasts
 
I'm not sure how creating artificial bottlenecks in a system and then removing them is so ground breaking. where's the AMD 6k cards in the review? Oh, thats right - they aren't released yet.
 
Smoked Brisket said:
Here we have an article showing AMD beating intel only when paired with an rtx 3000.
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Not really. There are graphs showing performance with a 2080ti as well as a 2060. They all tell the same story. In CPU limited situations, the 5900X pulls ahead by up to 20%. In GPU limited situations, they are even, because it's the GPU that is limiting performance. That isn't a revelation, that is how things have worked for a long time.
 
GotNoRice said:
Not really. There are graphs showing performance with a 2080ti as well as a 2060. They all tell the same story. In CPU limited situations, the 5900X pulls ahead by up to 20%. In GPU limited situations, they are even, because it's the GPU that is limiting performance. That isn't a revelation, that is how things have worked for a long time.
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I am not going to deny your technical savvy trumps mine. That does not change the fact that the author said conclusively that upgrading to a ryzen 5000 series is only going to help in gaming if you also upgrade your graphics card to this generation. Only one company has new cards out right now. I am not a fan of colors but I do hope with all my heart that team red's new cpu's perform well with green and red.
 
Smoked Brisket said:
the author said conclusively that upgrading to a ryzen 5000 series is only going to help in gaming if you also upgrade your graphics card to this generation.
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No that's not what the article said. You are trying to oversimplify things. There are many variables that will dictate if you end up being CPU limited or GPU limited. Obviously a faster GPU will decrease the chances of being GPU limited. But using an "older" videocard doesn't automatically mean that you will be GPU limited. It will depend heavily upon the resolution of your monitor and what video settings you use. Someone playing at 1080P will be much more likely to be CPU limited, while someone playing at 4K would be much more likely to be GPU limited. Settings like anti-aliasing can have a huge impact. A situation where you are GPU limited is reasonably easy to fix by lowering your video settings, whereas if you are CPU limited, there isn't often much you can do. In the end, something will always be the bottleneck. I'd rather err on the side of having a faster CPU personally.
 
Smoked Brisket said:
I am not going to deny your technical savvy trumps mine. That does not change the fact that the author said conclusively that upgrading to a ryzen 5000 series is only going to help in gaming if you also upgrade your graphics card to this generation. Only one company has new cards out right now. I am not a fan of colors but I do hope with all my heart that team red's new cpu's perform well with green and red.
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Does he said that or he said that to fully take advantage you need to do so (considering how much GPU gaming tend to be), i.e. to make a difference with a hyper powerful gaming cpu like a 10900 you need all the gpu that exist for sure, but no one will be upgrading from such CPU.

You need for you cpu to be limiting for an upgrade to have an effect is the general rules, and how fast memory/gpu you need for that will need to be faster and faster for that to be the case and not for them to be your bottleneck.

If the 2080ti/3070 would show something really different, maybe there will be something there (pci express 4 maybe to look at), but it seem in close to rounding error that the 10900k was ever faster.
 
johnnysd said:
Seems like if you configure it right it provides an exceptional upgrade but there are several ways to hold it back. Essentially don't cheap out on memory and GPU if you want the benefit, and get the right speed of memory and make sure there are 4 ranks, ie either 4 DIMMs with 1 rank or 2 DIMMS with 2 ranks and 3600 CL16 and above. Pretty simple
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The benefits of Zen 3 do not require exceptional memory. Most reviews tested with 3200mhz RAM. Which is the max official spec from AMD. For comparison, Intel's max official spec for the 10 series, is 2933mhz. But reviewers were usually also putting the same 3200mhz RAM in the Intel system, for as even a comparison as possible.
However, Intel does also in fact benefit from exceptionally fast RAM. I.E. you can pair a 10600k with exceptional RAM and low timings and have it beat a 10900k in many games.

**Gamers Nexus with a new video, showing exactly this.

It even shows in some games, a stock 5600x is as good or better than a 10600k with both an overclock and fast RAM.
 
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Smoked Brisket said:
I should have made a better title for the post. What I find interesting is that AMD has made a big deal about pairing a ZEN3 processor with an AMD 6k video card and how that offers increased performance over NVIDEA rtx 3000 series. Here we have an article showing AMD beating intel only when paired with an rtx 3000. Good stuff for enthusiasts
Click to expand...

Huh? So how is a Zen 3 supposed to beat an Intel CPU because of an nV GPU?

There is no possible way anyone can assume that AMD with nV is better than using an rx6000 series because they are not even out.

Im not understanding this?
 
tangoseal said:
Huh? So how is a Zen 3 supposed to beat an Intel CPU because of an nV GPU?

There is no possible way anyone can assume that AMD with nV is better than using an rx6000 series because they are not even out.

Im not understanding this?
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I did not say that. I implied that it it could be that Zen 3 is better with both red and green GPU's. There has been some variance among reviewers with Zen 3. Not about whether Zen 3 had finally taken every performance crown but by how much. AMD is claiming that Zen 3 paired with Navi 2 offers a boost in performance over Nvidia cards. I thought it was interesting that this author found that Zen 3 paired with Nvidia's newest offered a boost over Intel.
 
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johnnysd said:
Seems like if you configure it right it provides an exceptional upgrade but there are several ways to hold it back. Essentially don't cheap out on memory and GPU if you want the benefit, and get the right speed of memory and make sure there are 4 ranks, ie either 4 DIMMs with 1 rank or 2 DIMMS with 2 ranks and 3600 CL16 and above. Pretty simple
Click to expand...
I haven't build a computer in a while (2013) and I haven't kept up to date that much but what's this rank thing? Back then as long as you used dual channel you were fine :p
I guess I better start reading on things since as soon as 5600x are in stock somewhere in Canada I'm buying.
 
I feel like hardly any people read the article and saw what they found....
Basically, yes Ryzen beats Intel 100% in low rez, low GPU load gaming, usually by 20%.
Once you dial in max settings, they even out and are equal, because you are GPU limited.

What they found it that there are weird shenanigans in the MIDDLE.
If Ryzen is 20% faster in gaming in CPU limited scenarios , then it should be faster across the board until you are 100% GPU limited, but it isn't.
There is weird stuff going on in the middle that lets the Intel CPU take the lead every time and the results are obviously reproducible.
The article mentioned that it could be Ryzen's aggressive power gating or idle states kicking in.
Next test would be to find a way to disable those power saving settings and test and see if the results change.
Also I guess with the RTX 3000 series, it somehow doesn't do it....
 
Rockenrooster said:
I feel like hardly any people read the article and saw what they found....
Basically, yes Ryzen beats Intel 100% in low rez, low GPU load gaming, usually by 20%.
Once you dial in max settings, they even out and are equal, because you are GPU limited.

What they found it that there are weird shenanigans in the MIDDLE.
If Ryzen is 20% faster in gaming in CPU limited scenarios , then it should be faster across the board until you are 100% GPU limited, but it isn't.
There is weird stuff going on in the middle that lets the Intel CPU take the lead every time and the results are obviously reproducible.
The article mentioned that it could be Ryzen's aggressive power gating or idle states kicking in.
Next test would be to find a way to disable those power saving settings and test and see if the results change.
Also I guess with the RTX 3000 series, it somehow doesn't do it....
Click to expand...
It was a text wall article but I read enough to feel informed but probably not as much as I should be. Im not sure if its even an issue to be honest. Everyone knows that high res 2 plus K gaming is going to load a gpu more than a cpu. If intel is overtaking AMD at mid load scenarios where gpu is not full nor is cpu then its simply Intel holding a boost clock longer or AMD is just saving a little power and scaling back. A change to AGESA microcode will probably make AMD more aggressive in this middle ground region. I find this kinda newsy neato but it doesnt change my opinion that Zen 3 is curb checking Intels face, at least this gen.

Once we can see this little experiment tested on rx6x00 cards maybe it will provide enough data to see whats happening better.
 
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