AMD doesn’t dictate the size of the BIOS roms on motherboards. That is up to the manufacturer. This really just seems like what they did with Ryzen 3000. Say that the chipsets aren’t officially supported because many of the boards won’t be able to support every AM4 cpu easily. The boards with larger roms might get updates, but it will be on the manufacturer to handle it.
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Zen 3 CPUs - 500 Series or Newer Chipsets Only
- Thread starter bigdogchris
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AMD doesn’t dictate the size of the BIOS roms on motherboards. That is up to the manufacturer. This really just seems like what they did with Ryzen 3000. Say that the chipsets aren’t officially supported because many of the boards won’t be able to support every AM4 cpu easily. The boards with larger roms might get updates, but it will be on the manufacturer to handle it.
SamuelL421
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I bet support will come to some b450 / x470 boards. Some of them have a a 256Mb bios, its only the ones with 128Mb that couldn't be updated.
Edit: beat me to it
Edit: beat me to it
Reading the board QVLs is where things get interesting. My X570 board (Asus WS Pro X570 Ace) doesn't support any 1000-series CPUs...but it does support the 2000 G and GE series, which are 14nm. Go figure. (Admittedly, fitting quad- or dual-core processors to that board seems weird, but whatever.)
Hagrid
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So it is possible some vendors might update the bios on older boards if they support it.
Yeah official vs actual don't always line up, so I guess we'll all get the answer a little after the CPUs drop. Honestly though, if the b550's come out at $100 (lower end ones) like mentioned it's not that huge of an ask to upgrade.
Yeah, I was just reading a WCCFTech article about it. The tweet they quoted, in isolation, certainly leaves room for AMD to come back later and say that Zen 2 or even Zen+ support could be added.
At the end of the day, 3 generations of socket compatibility beats 2 generations, even if it's not universal.
On the 3300X/3100/B550 press briefing a couple weeks ago, they showed the slide seen on the first page here and basically said the trade on B550 boards being made is the older chips for the future (yet to be released) chips. At this point, they seem fairly clear about what is and is not supported. They also said they will continue to support the B450 chipset (implying continuing to sell) for compatibility with the 1xxx/2xxx chips. The 3200G type chips are also being held back to the B450 chipset as they're based on Zen+. I suspect in the short run, B450 will be positioned at the lowest price point, B550 a step up and X570 on the top.
Of course, they could always go back and figure out a path for allowing larger ROM sizes for board makers who want to have full support up and down the product stack. Though, someone on a 1000 series Ryzen can upgrade for the cost of a new CPU and board and keep their memory and everything else. Not too bad of a deal as their chip will be close to 4 years old at that point.
Master_shake_
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My x470 board should support them
No problem with 3900x on X370 ASUS C6H, the initial bios's had PCIe 4 as well and worked fine with the Radeon 5700 XT at PCIe 4, bios had a number of other issues which were all worked out but PCIe 4 was solid until AMD cried that they could not support it other than on X570. Chart does not indicate support for X370 with Zen 2 yet works fine for many boards. Not sure I would want to upgrade board (current one is working great) and then upgrade the CPU. Will most likely be running Threadripper, more interested if TRX40 will support Zen 3.
1337Goat
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From AMD's perspective, they've been the underdog for years now. Now they're on top, and whether or not they turn into an "evil empire," I bet they want to make at least one huge lumpsum in pure sales, striking while the iron is hot. If they get more people to buy more *new* CPUs and *new* motherboards with *new* AMD chipsets, then that's easy cash.
Now, do they throw it into R&D as an investment for a benevolent future, where their prices and cut-throat business practices take a backseat to cool technological development, or do they push that money into marketing, and turn into a dark clone of Intel, who sees us as their prey?
Their choices now determine the future. If they turn evil, then good engineers will stay away, and they'll become like Intel, who had a few good products, and then absolute stagnation for years as their business practices became more and more corrupt, pushing those few rare genius engineers away.
Dark futures always await us. Such is life in this technological dystopia.
Now, do they throw it into R&D as an investment for a benevolent future, where their prices and cut-throat business practices take a backseat to cool technological development, or do they push that money into marketing, and turn into a dark clone of Intel, who sees us as their prey?
Their choices now determine the future. If they turn evil, then good engineers will stay away, and they'll become like Intel, who had a few good products, and then absolute stagnation for years as their business practices became more and more corrupt, pushing those few rare genius engineers away.
Dark futures always await us. Such is life in this technological dystopia.
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If they are going to continue to push more cores with better memory speeds they need more pins. I am mostly surprised they managed to cram what they did into the 3000 series and still keep it on the AM4 platform. Seriously their engineers must have worked overtime to make that work, I wouldn’t be totally surprised if some of the performance gains advertised from the 4000 series weren’t from socket improvements alone.
kirbyrj
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The "lumpsum" you're talking about is from the sales of CPUs. I would be surprised if they do little more than break even on their chipsets as most of them are 3rd party anyway. Intel is totally different in that their chipset business is more robust. Hence, they have a legitimate financial reason for planned obsolescence of their boards for no good reason for the consumer (see Coffee Lake running on Z170/Z270 with bios and pin mods).
kirbyrj
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But you're not getting a new socket yet or any socket improvements. They are talking about the 4000 series running on existing AM4 boards with X570 chipsets that have been out since July 2019.
I've bought 3 AMD cpus in the last year and a half. (Two in the last month.) My last intel chip was purchased 4 years ago. No, I'm not a powerful force in the market. 
The last two AMD chips, 3700x's, were both purchased with X570 mobos...specifically to increase the odds of my system longevity. Will I swap in a Ryzen 4000 series? I don't know. But I do know that I like the option. Intel...well, they've been pushed deep into second place on my list of "go to" cpu manufacturers.
Like others here, I keep one or two machines at the top of the heap, and try to use their cast-offs to keep the other machines relevant. AMD lets me do that far more easily (and cheaply) than intel.
The last two AMD chips, 3700x's, were both purchased with X570 mobos...specifically to increase the odds of my system longevity. Will I swap in a Ryzen 4000 series? I don't know. But I do know that I like the option. Intel...well, they've been pushed deep into second place on my list of "go to" cpu manufacturers.
Like others here, I keep one or two machines at the top of the heap, and try to use their cast-offs to keep the other machines relevant. AMD lets me do that far more easily (and cheaply) than intel.
kirbyrj
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I think you'll see boards with "Beta" bioses that allow the CPU's even if they aren't officially supported. I think part of the problem is the bios ROM size for sure as even a lot of B450 boards will tell you to stay with an older bios unless you need 3000 series support or they get stripped down features. The other part of the problem is the VRM quality on older boards documented in places such as this reddit post. Newer X570 boards were designed for everything up to the 3950x and have beefier VRMs even on lower end boards. I don't think AMD would like to tell the consumer that only an 8C/16T part will work on older boards either even if it is practical based on the hardware limitations, but with a beta bios, you can blow up your motherboard at your own risk.
If nothing else, it will help with the resale value of 3000 series parts as they will be the fastest CPUs available for older chipsets (assuming a hard lockout of 4000 series parts).
If nothing else, it will help with the resale value of 3000 series parts as they will be the fastest CPUs available for older chipsets (assuming a hard lockout of 4000 series parts).
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Hardware Unboxed apparently got clarifying information from AMD regarding compatibility. Supposedly AMD won't be providing the necessary code required to support Zen 3 on older chipsets. So board manufacturers won't be able to add support to 300 & 400 series boards whether they want to or not.
Source (starts around 3:30):
Source (starts around 3:30):
In the end it should make it easier from a support side and help motherboard makers sell more motherboards. For me, if it is only a 15% performance increase, not really affecting game experience that would be a hard sell buying a new processor, motherboard, installation etc. Just has to see what is offered. Now if the 3950x price is dramatically reduced then that would be a better option which would mean 3 machines get updated with one new processor change.
Then I am even more surprised. I thought the 4000 series was supposed to start supporting DDR5 or was that only a rumour. I can’t keep it all straight anymore.
The 3000 series is not likely to see much of a price change. AMD’s reports say they have sold something like 90% of all the 3000 series chips they made, they are in dwindling supply and I have to imagine they would be shifting all manufacturing to the 4000 series parts sooner than not unless this is going to be another October launch with April availability.
Hagrid
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Not a huge deal since a 3950x is still pretty good if you need that much HP on an older board.
Unless everyone involved was willfully blind, they knew it was coming. This was a massive mess with Intel's very long lived LGA775 socket; not wanting to have to deal with it in the future was why they went to a two generation/socket model afterwards.
pendragon1
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ummm we're a good chunk through 2020 and its still supported. also, they said AM4 socket, not all chipsets.
AMD defence force in da house.
Not to mention these chips probably won’t see the light of day till November, actually arriving for the most of us in April.
Well somebody’s marketing team is gonna have a bad day right there.
BinarySynapse
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MSI is not AMD.
I feel like everyones marketing team are in hell right now, because the "reason" is bullshit, and a lot of people bought B450 because B550 was "delayed".
Well shit, there goes all my upgrade plans. It even fucks my backup plan of buying a 3900x on the cheap because now those chips are going to retain a much higher value due to being the best for anyone with a 400 series board. Damnit, this sucks.
defaultluser
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You're not an idiot for buying a B450 chipset, unless you somehow think that you're missing out on something critical by not having 10-15%higher IPC from the 4000 series.
Core counts will be identical on Zen 3, and you will still need two chiplets to construct a 4950X
You can't expect support forever there -every time AMD adds a new set of chips, they get closer to hitting up against a wall. Corner case motherboard with twice the flash space aren't worth AMD's time to support.
AMD is clearing the way for Zen 3, and then he later release of Zen 3 APU on AM4 (supposed to be the last chips released for AM4, early next year).
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It occurs to me all they have to do is call it AM4+ and legally they are covered. Then all they have to do is launch a mid to low end part under the 4000 series name which is essentially just a rebranded 3000 part under the new 7+ node. That covers them from all their legal marketing about AM4 support for 2020.You're not an idiot for buying a B450 chipset, unless you somehow think that you're missing out on something critical by not having 10-15%higher IPC from the 4000 series.
Core counts will be identical on Zen 3, and you will still need two chiplets to construct a 4950X
You can't expect support forever there -every time AMD adds a new set of chips, they get closer to hitting up against a wall. Corner case motherboard with twice the flash space aren't worth AMD's time to support.
AMD is clearing the way for Zen 3, and then he later release of Zen 3 APU on AM4 (supposed to be the last chips released for AM4, early next year).
defaultluser
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Right, I'm sure you're going to find success, in your pointless civil case?
You don't see a class-action over AMD abandoning the original Threadripper chipset, do you? Folks understand when you hit the physical limits of a motherboard (poorly-designed memory controller on one, limited flash space on the other.)
You can buy a motherboard with more flash space, but that's the exception to the rule. AMD would rather cut the extra support costs supporting corner cases like yourselves. This is part of the reason Intel only supports a socket for two generations now.
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I don’t care, my 3900x is more than enough CPU for me but they have put out a lot of materials that say they will support the AM4 platform for all future releases. There are enough people out there with free time who would be more than happy to try to sue them and there are lots of bored lawyers out there right now who would take them up on it. Simple name change and a new G series CPU and they are set they will need something in the sub $100 range anyways.
pendragon1
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covered for what? they said am4 socket, not chipset and in 7 month we'll be out of 2020. they kept their word as far as im concerned.
Auer
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By the time Zen3 is a few months old you can get them so cheap the price of a new motherboard wont matter.
Mode13
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I don't really know if this is going to be true anymore if AMD gets to parity with intel in single core performance. 3700x appears to still be right around the $300 mark after almost a year.
I'm expecting 3000 series parts to be cheap(er) not long after 4000 series release though.