Zen 3 CPUs - 500 Series or Newer Chipsets Only

bigdogchris

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Zen 3 CPU compatibility has been released and AMD said only 500 series and newer motherboards will support the CPU due to not enough room for microcode.

EcnjgMBmztwFqocVtU3E8Y-970-80.png

AMD has no plans to introduce “Zen 3” architecture support for older chipsets. While we wish could enable full support for every processor on every chipset, the flash memory chips that store BIOS settings and support have capacity limitations. Given these limitations, and the unprecedented longevity of the AM4 socket, there will inevitably be a time and place where a transition to free up space is necessary—the AMD 500 Series chipsets are that time.
SOURCE
 
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Master_shake_

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Q: What about (X pre-500 Series chipset)?
A:
AMD has no plans to introduce “Zen 3” architecture support for older chipsets. While we wish could enable full support for every processor on every chipset, the flash memory chips that store BIOS settings and support have capacity limitations. Given these limitations, and the unprecedented longevity of the AM4 socket, there will inevitably be a time and place where a transition to free up space is necessary—the AMD 500 Series chipsets are that time.
At least it's a real limitation and not because they said it won't work.
 

bigdogchris

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At least it's a real limitation and not because they said it won't work.
Makes me wonder if AM5 boards (or whatever the socket will be) are going to have much larger eprom's now that they know this is an issue. Thing is it would add cost to every single board years before it would be used. Are people willing to pay for that?
 

Master_shake_

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Couldn't motherboard manufacturer in theory just give up supporting Ryzen 1000 and 2000 CPUs to increase ROM space for Ryzen 3000 and 4000?
While AMD officially says 'No Support' on the matter, there's a slight chance that a few board makers might add BIOS support for Ryzen 4000 CPUs on older AM4 motherboards. Notebook maker, XMG, confirmed that they will enable AMD Ryzen 4000 series compatibility with B450 chipset through a microcode update. So there's still hope that a few manufacturers who had flagship solutions with dual-BIOS design could sneakily add support for the processors which would be awesome for users who paid top dollar for these once flagship and very expensive motherboards.
Maybe
 

pendragon1

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based on source(s), i'll wait and see. but as mentioned above sockets and chipsets are two different things...
 

Azrak

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The Asus Crosshair VII Hero Wifi (and non-Wifi) both have 32 MB BIOS sizes which is twice what most other X470 MBs have, so Asus should be adding support for Zen 3 to them without issue. Unless AMD provides no support for it. That would suck and piss me off.
 

mda

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It is 2020. The new processors and motherboards are AM4. I fail to see the joke.
EDIT: So their official statement sounded like "support THROUGH 2020" afaik.
B550/X570 aside this is like saying that Z170s and Z390s use the same LGA1151...

They get by on a technicality.

I'm not bitter about this since I generally stick with the same CPU/Board combo throughout the life of the computer unit, but statements and actions like that aren't good for the industry.. Unless AMD means it's up to motherboard manufacturers to do as they please like how 3000 series are running on X370/B350 boards.

AMD's statement also seems to me like X670/B650 won't be launched on the AM4 socket. (God knows where A520 is...)
EDIT2: Also seems like they are playing coy about any "AM5" socket.
 
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Mode13

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Glad I splurged on an x570 board... I had a feeling this was coming because it's already been well known space was limited. Maybe custom bioses that remove 1000 - 2000 microcode and add 4000 will be a thing for those stuck on older chipsets.. Everyone was doing that back in the 775 days to add 771 xeon microcode.
 

MaZa

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The Asus Crosshair VII Hero Wifi (and non-Wifi) both have 32 MB BIOS sizes which is twice what most other X470 MBs have, so Asus should be adding support for Zen 3 to them without issue. Unless AMD provides no support for it. That would suck and piss me off.
Well, unless I remember wrong AMD did say that A320 mobo's will not officially support Zen 2 either, but there are models that do if I remember correctly. As long as there is no physical reason why the support cannot be added, I think it will be up to the mobo manufacturers if they want to support their older products.
 

GotNoRice

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Aren't there x370 and B350 boards that support 3000 series? Because according to that picture, that should not work either.

I think that board makers do have a bit of latitude in this. There could easily be "optional" bios versions that only support certain processors in order to free up room. You probably won't see that on most boards, but maybe higher-end boards.
 

SPARTAN VI

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A little disappointed but not a big deal to me. Was planning on handing down the 3700X to my wife, which would require I purchase another AM4 board anyway.

(Edit) I'm reading that the supported CPU slide is leading to a bit of confusion. Is this the minimum "official support?" I.e. If you have chipset and CPU combinations outside of this, then it is up to the motherboard manufacturer to support beyond the "official support?"
 
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Derangel

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Aren't there x370 and B350 boards that support 3000 series? Because according to that picture, that should not work either.

I think that board makers do have a bit of latitude in this. There could easily be "optional" bios versions that only support certain processors in order to free up room. You probably won't see that on most boards, but maybe higher-end boards.
Yeah. This is basically about "official support". AMD seems to be going down the route of "unless all/the vast majority of boards can support it we won't call it officially supported", which does make sense.
 

bpizzle1

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The Asus Crosshair VII Hero Wifi (and non-Wifi) both have 32 MB BIOS sizes which is twice what most other X470 MBs have, so Asus should be adding support for Zen 3 to them without issue. Unless AMD provides no support for it. That would suck and piss me off.
Man, I sure hope so. I’ve been holding strong not going with a 3900x to upgrade my 2700x because I figured I’d just wait until the new gen. This was all based on the assumption that my x470 crosshair would support the chips.
 

bpizzle1

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Ding ding. The problem won't be Asus.
I mean, ASUS is just as likely to say “fuck it, buy one of our new boards.” The Crosshair series is super overkill, so there’s zero reason it couldn’t support the new chips of ASUS lets it. It may just be a matter of ASUS making a business decision.
 

tangoseal

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"We will support AM4 Until 2020" suddenly feels like a joke.
Technically theyre right
A 2021 car model is released in the second half of the 2020 year.

Same thing, zen 3 a 2021 model is released on the tail end of 2020. So they are not lying.

Anyways im probably about 99% right in thinking those that dont even own a zen chip are the ones bitching. Maybe they planned to try and get a zen 3 chip and think they were gonna get a b350 board for a $1.50 used or something. Sorry but these chips are extremely complex and the features that everyone DEMANDS to be implemented cant be retroactively engineered into a finalized solution. Its like buying a scooter with a 250cc motor and the demanding 2 years from now that they let you change the engine to a Hyabusa motor. Its retarded af to think am4 can last 10 generations or some awkward expectation.

As a threadripper owner, 3960x, will I get angry because zen 3 has higher single thread performance and AMD will not let me plop a Threadriper 4th gen in the board, possibly deoending on the actual tech changes and if its justifiable, but I wont be mad if they dont allow a 5th or 6th in it. Because by that time tech will demand more tha the board is wired to support.
 
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Verado

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I'm pretty sure my msi mortar max would have room for the microcode :( :(
 

GotNoRice

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I'm pretty sure my msi mortar max would have room for the microcode :( :(
There are already examples of CPU support on boards beyond what is shown in that graphic. There are people running 3000 series Ryzen chips on their X370 boards right now, even though that is not shown as supported.
 
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Sindalis

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I just bought a B450M Mortar Max, had to bloody get the thing imported from Europe because they don't sell in the US and I was tired of waiting for B550 for ANY DECENT mATX options.

If the performance was there, I was expecting to upgrade my 3700X to a 4000 series processor, OR at least a 4000 series APU if this board was to go to say the wife.

Right now though this is really disappointing.
 

1_rick

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"We will support AM4 Until 2020" suddenly feels like a joke.
Well, they DO support AM4. Just not all the cpus, because of that BIOS issue. I realize that's splitting hairs a bit, but at the end of the day, even if all motherboards won't work with all chips, at least there's not no combinations that work. It's not like how no LGA 1151 processor will work on any LGA 1151-2 board.
 

Ranulfo

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I just bought a B450M Mortar Max, had to bloody get the thing imported from Europe because they don't sell in the US and I was tired of waiting for B550 for ANY DECENT mATX options.

If the performance was there, I was expecting to upgrade my 3700X to a 4000 series processor, OR at least a 4000 series APU if this board was to go to say the wife.

Right now though this is really disappointing.
Writing has kinda been on the wall for micro-atx and mini-itx this gen my friend. Even Intel side doesn't have too many options these days.
 

Starfalcon

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Considering what a lot of boards cost now, I do not see why they can not quadruple the size of the bios/UEFI chip for little to no cost. They are putting crazy high end VRMs, cladding the boards in aluminum, and putting huge waterblocks on them...why not a bigger bios chip? Will not an extra $10 for the chip really break the cost of the board?
 

Sindalis

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Writing has kinda been on the wall for micro-atx and mini-itx this gen my friend. Even Intel side doesn't have too many options these days.
This side of the pond, yes.

It's a shame though. I honestly do not want a giant ATX system, but ITX is too small. I want something mid-sized. mATX suits me perfectly.

Oh well. Hopefully they can have some decent mATX options in B550 (or B650) that will be worth the upgrade.
 

IdiotInCharge

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Considering what a lot of boards cost now, I do not see why they can not quadruple the size of the bios/UEFI chip for little to no cost. They are putting crazy high end VRMs, cladding the boards in aluminum, and putting huge waterblocks on them...why not a bigger bios chip? Will not an extra $10 for the chip really break the cost of the board?
They're not sexy?
 

IdiotInCharge

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This side of the pond, yes.

It's a shame though. I honestly do not want a giant ATX system, but ITX is too small. I want something mid-sized. mATX suits me perfectly.

Oh well. Hopefully they can have some decent mATX options in B550 (or B650) that will be worth the upgrade.
I used to run two GPUs. I used to run sound cards. I used to have spinning disks.

About the only two things I care about now inside the case are CPU cooling and GPU cooling that can handle top-end components quietly.
 

Red Falcon

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Considering what a lot of boards cost now, I do not see why they can not quadruple the size of the bios/UEFI chip for little to no cost. They are putting crazy high end VRMs, cladding the boards in aluminum, and putting huge waterblocks on them...why not a bigger bios chip? Will not an extra $10 for the chip really break the cost of the board?
...and this is where the questions "Was this a true limitation of hardware BIOS/UEFI flash storage memory addressing?" or "Is this heavily camouflaged artificial obsolescence?" need to be asked.
I'm not saying it is either at the moment, especially since that has yet to be seen and officially proven.

However, I have said from the start that Intel needs to become competitive again, otherwise AMD will turn back into what they were circa late-2006, or will turn into what Intel has been for the last decade.
While a lack of competition is good for these megacorps, true competition is the only winning option for the customer and the advancement of technology.

AMD has done an excellent job from 2017 up to this point, and I'm hoping this is a true technical limitation that is preventing these new CPUs from working on the older chipsets.
But if not, I am not going to be surprised in the least.
 

Starfalcon

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They're not sexy?
Sure they are, but running out of space on your bios chips isnt. It is just like the early UEFI days when they were trying to get massive UEFIs to fit in super small bios chips. At least they finally were forced to increase the size, but we are now back again to the same problems.
 

Starfalcon

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...and this is where the questions "Was this a true limitation of hardware BIOS/UEFI flash storage memory addressing?" or "Is this heavily camouflaged artificial obsolescence?" need to be asked.
I'm not saying it is either at the moment, especially since that has yet to be seen and officially proven.

However, I have said from the start that Intel needs to become competitive again, otherwise AMD will turn back into what they were circa late-2006, or will turn into what Intel has been for the last decade.
While a lack of competition is good for these megacorps, true competition is the only winning option for the customer and the advancement of technology.

AMD has done an excellent job from 2017 up to this point, and I'm hoping this is a true technical limitation that is preventing these new CPUs from working on the older chipsets.
But if not, I am not going to be surprised in the least.
I think a lot of it is due to PCIe 4.0, there may be issues with chips on the old boards, or they dont want old boards competing with their new ones. Who knows for sure, as AMD wont tell the real reason.
 

Comixbooks

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Buy it with your stimulus check the only problem I have switching out boards is reloading all my programs switching it out is fun but making sure everything works software wise is a pain.
 

Red Falcon

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I think a lot of it is due to PCIe 4.0, there may be issues with chips on the old boards, or they dont want old boards competing with their new ones. Who knows for sure, as AMD wont tell the real reason.
Those are good points, and I do give them credit for making those chipsets, and not just the physical socket itself, last for three generations.
Really hoping Intel is willing to do the same, though their wording is making it sound like it will just be the socket itself lasting for three generations (allegedly), and not the chipsets themselves.

Oh well, either way, competition is good, and it gives us lots of options to choose from, either way.
 

Geforcepat

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Aren't there x370 and B350 boards that support 3000 series? Because according to that picture, that should not work either.

I think that board makers do have a bit of latitude in this. There could easily be "optional" bios versions that only support certain processors in order to free up room. You probably won't see that on most boards, but maybe higher-end boards.
Yeah, My Asus prime 370 is running my 3600. I believe asus will release an bios update late summer to support zen 3 or Ryzen 4000 on X370
 
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Ready4Dis

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"For pre-500 motherboards, vendors could easily weed out support for the older Ryzen 1000 or 2000-series lineups to make space for Zen 3 via an optional firmware update.". From toms hardware, meaning everything is just speculating. But according to that chart no x370's support zen 2, but we know some do. I guess it'll be a waiting game, but I'm hoping ASRock decides to support it on my b450, if not I'll probably pass my rig down to my son and get a b550 when zen 3 drops.
 
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