Z690 DDR4 Speed Question

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Elgato748

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For most of the Z690 DDR4 motherboards 3200 is listed as the highest speed memory without overclocking. Some reviews have
said that the faster memory actually hurts performance? What is the ideal memory for Z690 DDR4 boards?
5200(OC) / 4800(OC)/ 4600(OC)/ 4400(OC)/ 4000(OC)/3200(JEDEC)/ 2933(JEDEC)/ 2666(JEDEC)/ 2133(JEDEC) MHz
Is it simply selecting an XMP profile for the faster memory?
 
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Most will do 3600 gear 1 but a few can reach close to 4000 gear one with some tweaking.
CPU IMC\MB\RAM amount & ranks will all affect this limit.

Going higher will need gear 2 to be stable which will increase latency a fair bit so programs that are latency sensitive will perform worse but you also get higher bandwidth with higher frequency which can help other programs.
 
Historically, Intel is less prone to memory latency performance issues than AMD.

Personally, I have a set of DDR4 3600 memory running Gear 1 and have had no issues.


Edit: Now I have issues after a bios update. My AMD setup was actually more stable. I have to run 2T command rate with Intel, but I could run 1T with AMD with the same memory. Go figure.
 
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kirbyrj said:
Historically, Intel is less prone to memory latency performance issues than AMD.

Personally, I have a set of DDR4 3600 memory running Gear 1 and have had no issues.
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Same here. I have used a GSkill set and currently a Corsair Dominator set of DDR4 3600 with no issues.
 
Any recommendations for the MSI Z960 DDR4 board? I was looking at the G.Skill Royals...
 
Krenum said:
Any recommendations for the MSI Z960 DDR4 board? I was looking at the G.Skill Royals...
Click to expand...

Realistically, you're going to have to move from Gear 1 to Gear 2 if you go much over 3600Mhz, and Intel isn't super picky about Cas latency compared to Ryzen. I have a set of 32GB 2x16GB Cas 18 3600 sticks that I bought for $110 and it works plenty fast at 3600Mhz, Gear 1, 1T.

Edit: It only works at 2T now after a bios update. But I was able to drop the Cas to 16 and Gear 1.
 
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kirbyrj said:
Realistically, you're going to have to move from Gear 1 to Gear 2 if you go much over 3600Mhz, and Intel isn't super picky about Cas latency compared to Ryzen. I have a set of 32GB 2x16GB Cas 18 3600 sticks that I bought for $110 and it works plenty fast at 3600Mhz, Gear 1, 1T.
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Thanks for the info.
 
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OFaceSIG said:
What is the Gear 1 vs 2 stuff? Is that link an XMP profile?
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No. It's basically just a memory divider. You can leave it on auto and your MB will take care of it or you can adjust it manually. The only caveat I've found is that if I manually set it to 1:1 (Gear 1 in Asus Bios), I also have to set the memory to its actual speed. Might just be a quirk of the bios though.

CPU-z.png


That's what my RAM looks like with setting XMP, setting Gear 1, and then the Command rate to 1T. I can go in and manually adjust the timings on the memory so they are tighter also (just forgot to do it last time I updated bios).
 
kirbyrj said:
The only caveat I've found is that if I manually set it to 1:1 (Gear 1 in Asus Bios), I also have to set the memory to its actual speed. Might just be a quirk of the bios though.
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That seems to be the norm so far. At least it is with my Maximus Z690 Extreme which is a DDR5 board. I had to set the ratio to 1:1 and then set the memory clock to 6000MHz in order to get it to do that. Otherwise, it would default to 4800MHz if I just set the ratio to 1:1.
 
Elgato748 said:
For most of the Z690 DDR4 motherboards 3200 is listed as the highest speed memory without overclocking. Some reviews have
said that the faster memory actually hurts performance? What is the ideal memory for Z690 DDR4 boards?
5200(OC) / 4800(OC)/ 4600(OC)/ 4400(OC)/ 4000(OC)/3200(JEDEC)/ 2933(JEDEC)/ 2666(JEDEC)/ 2133(JEDEC) MHz
Is it simply selecting an XMP profile for the faster memory?
Click to expand...
3600 Mhz and CL18 look like the ideal speed and latency to me (I am looking at the prices, too). I dunno if you can overclock that - it depends on the board you get, BIOS and RAM chip - but, that's my impression. I will look at a mobo and the memory support list - and that is what often shows up on most of the Z690 DDR4 boards. I would go with that because going higher than 3600mhz requires a lot more tweaking (I believe) - as mentioned in the thread.
 
pavel said:
3600 Mhz and CL18 look like the ideal speed and latency to me (I am looking at the prices, too). I dunno if you can overclock that - it depends on the board you get, BIOS and RAM chip - but, that's my impression. I will look at a mobo and the memory support list - and that is what often shows up on most of the Z690 DDR4 boards. I would go with that because going higher than 3600mhz requires a lot more tweaking (I believe) - as mentioned in the thread.
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When overclocking memory, your primary limitation is generally going to be the RAM itself. I've got some G.Skill stuff with Samsung B-Die that can do 4200MHz and is only rated at 3600MHz. I also have some G.Skill DDR4 3600MHz stuff based on Hynix memory that can barely make it to 3700MHz if that.
 
Dan_D said:
When overclocking memory, your primary limitation is generally going to be the RAM itself. I've got some G.Skill stuff with Samsung B-Die that can do 4200MHz and is only rated at 3600MHz. I also have some G.Skill DDR4 3600MHz stuff based on Hynix memory that can barely make it to 3700MHz if that.
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How old is the hynix one? I think the hynix chipset was originally frustrating for overclockers but isn't there more revisions now - it's improved? There's hynix and hynix M - then I read about hynix CJR and DJR. I don't know the differences - too confusing. Maybe you can point me towards a chart or really detailed explanation? :) As for Samsung B-die, I don't even think you can find it anymore? The two choices for current memory - at least, for what I would look at - either 3200 mhz and 3600 mhz speeds (either cl16 or cl18) - are hynix and micron.

I looked at a memory support list for a Gigabyte Z690 board I am interested in (to get realtek 8125 LAN) and it listed mostly Micron/Micron E and Hynix/Hynix M so 4 choices, total. I have no idea what that means - or which ones are preferable. I guess I will research it more when I am actually in the market and trying to buy a pair.

It seems that there's more choices if you go with 3600mhz? That is, if you are trying to find a brand and certain model from the memory support list?
 
pavel said:
How old is the hynix one? I think the hynix chipset was originally frustrating for overclockers but isn't there more revisions now - it's improved? There's hynix and hynix M - then I read about hynix CJR and DJR. I don't know the differences - too confusing. Maybe you can point me towards a chart or really detailed explanation? :) As for Samsung B-die, I don't even think you can find it anymore? The two choices for current memory - at least, for what I would look at - either 3200 mhz and 3600 mhz speeds (either cl16 or cl18) - are hynix and micron.

I looked at a memory support list for a Gigabyte Z690 board I am interested in (to get realtek 8125 LAN) and it listed mostly Micron/Micron E and Hynix/Hynix M so 4 choices, total. I have no idea what that means - or which ones are preferable. I guess I will research it more when I am actually in the market and trying to buy a pair.

It seems that there's more choices if you go with 3600mhz? That is, if you are trying to find a brand and certain model from the memory support list?
Click to expand...
Yes, there are different revisions of Hynix memory. I don't recall which ones mine are. I'm not using that system at present. My point is that when overclocking RAM, the limitations are generally going to be the memory IC's themselves not the motherboard or the IMC of the CPU. I simply used my Hynix based modules as an example of modules that do not overclock well and contrasted that with the ones that I have that do.
 
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Dan_D said:
That seems to be the norm so far. At least it is with my Maximus Z690 Extreme which is a DDR5 board. I had to set the ratio to 1:1 and then set the memory clock to 6000MHz in order to get it to do that. Otherwise, it would default to 4800MHz if I just set the ratio to 1:1.
Click to expand...
Your setup runs gear 1 at 6000 mhz?
 
Dan_D said:
Yes, there are different revisions of Hynix memory. I don't recall which ones mine are. I'm not using that system at present. My point is that when overclocking RAM, the limitations are generally going to be the memory IC's themselves not the motherboard or the IMC of the CPU. I simply used my Hynix based modules as an example of modules that do not overclock well and contrasted that with the ones that I have that do.
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I was helping a relative with a build - getting parts and we settled on 3200 mhz - I don't think he will want to tweak things whereas I might try.

However, he still doesn't have memory yet. I am looking at memory - and it's really difficult to figure out what chip/chipset is in the sticks let alone the revision.

Also, the mobo QVL are often called 'outdated' and they do look it - I usually can't find the sticks that are online for sale - on it. It's not surprising as the motherboard manufacturer (Asus, Gigabyte, MSI etc.) only tested a sample of the memory out there - often popular memory that people rushed to buy - the RAM BRANDS/manufacturers often switch chipsets so the most recent memory is often a different model or at least, the chipset provider/manufacturer changed.

With that all said, the common chipsets seem to be SK Hynix and *sometimes* Micron. I think you just pick one and hope for the best? Even when sk hynix is listed in the QVL - the version/revision # isn't always listed.

Even when I am able to buy (get my build) - I suspect, my options for OC of the Ram will be limited - probably won't be getting Samsung - any die version. :)
 
I was just dealing with this same issue. I would guess that a lot of the DDR4 3200 and 3600 are exactly the same ICCs. 3200 has a Cas 16 and 3600 has a Cas 18.

What I've found to be at least marginally helpful is to look at the user review pictures in Amazon. At least some of the time you get either a Taiphoon screenshot or at least a screenshot of the SPD tab in CPU-Z. Should be able to find out at bare minimum who the manufacturer is.

My personal opinion of the ADL memory controller with DDR4 is that it is a pathetic attempt for Intel. I would say it's about equivalent to Zen2. Zen3 runs circles around it. Realistically, a Comet Lake memory controller runs circles around it.

The last two kits I tried were both rated at DDR4 3600 Cas 18 for 32GB (2x16GB). I have a set of Timetec basic stuff that is Dual Rank Hynix CJR and a set of Teamgroup T-Force Dark which is single rank Hynix (unsure of exact die). The Timetec version will run Cas 16, 19, 19, 38 like a lot of more expensive 32GB kits. It used to run 1T command rate (and still does in a Zen3 build), but a subsequent bios update killed that. It will attempt to boot into Windows but it blue screens now. The Teamgroup kit won't make it out of the bios if I adjust the Cas to 16 or the speed above 3600 (Timetec is cheaper also ;) ). Teamgroup appears to do a pretty thorough job binning leaving nothing on the table for the end user (or I just got a dud sample). I bought the Teamgroup Dark because I saw that some people were getting Micron E die ICCs. I did not. G.Skill is pretty much the only brand that makes it easy to know what ICCs you're going to get because they change the model number when they change the ICCs.

To test, I've been using TestMem5 v0.12 using anta777's config which I just found yesterday. I'm actually testing my Timetec kit at the tighter timings right now using it so maybe I was premature with my conclusion.

https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/oc-guide/DDR4 OC Guide.md

Good information there about memory OCing in general. Also voltage curves depending on the die, etc.
 
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kirbyrj said:
I was just dealing with this same issue. I would guess that a lot of the DDR4 3200 and 3600 are exactly the same ICCs. 3200 has a Cas 16 and 3600 has a Cas 18.

What I've found to be at least marginally helpful is to look at the user review pictures in Amazon. At least some of the time you get either a Taiphoon screenshot or at least a screenshot of the SPD tab in CPU-Z. Should be able to find out at bare minimum who the manufacturer is.

My personal opinion of the ADL memory controller with DDR4 is that it is a pathetic attempt for Intel. I would say it's about equivalent to Zen2. Zen3 runs circles around it. Realistically, a Comet Lake memory controller runs circles around it.

The last two kits I tried were both rated at DDR4 3600 Cas 18 for 32GB (2x16GB). I have a set of Timetec basic stuff that is Dual Rank Hynix CJR and a set of Teamgroup T-Force Dark which is single rank Hynix (unsure of exact die). The Timetec version will run Cas 16, 19, 19, 38 like a lot of more expensive 32GB kits. It used to run 1T command rate (and still does in a Zen3 build), but a subsequent bios update killed that. It will attempt to boot into Windows but it blue screens now. The Teamgroup kit won't make it out of the bios if I adjust the Cas to 16 or the speed above 3600 (Timetec is cheaper also ;) ). Teamgroup appears to do a pretty thorough job binning leaving nothing on the table for the end user (or I just got a dud sample). I bought the Teamgroup Dark because I saw that some people were getting Micron E die ICCs. I did not. G.Skill is pretty much the only brand that makes it easy to know what ICCs you're going to get because they change the model number when they change the ICCs.

To test, I've been using TestMem5 v0.12 using anta777's config which I just found yesterday. I'm actually testing my Timetec kit at the tighter timings right now using it so maybe I was premature with my conclusion.

https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/oc-guide/DDR4 OC Guide.md

Good information there about memory OCing in general. Also voltage curves depending on the die, etc.
Click to expand...
If you want good Micron-----a couple of weeks ago I would have said to get Crucial Ballistix. But then they went and cancelled Ballistix.

I have a 2x16GB set of the most recent Ballistix Cas 16 3600mhz. Its great stuff. But its been sold out.

However, it looks like Newegg found a box of the Red ones and aren't jacking up the price
https://www.newegg.com/ballistix-32...ix 32gb-_-20-164-186-_-Product&quicklink=true
 
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chameleoneel said:
If you want good Micron-----a couple of weeks ago I would have said to get Crucial Ballistix. But then they went and cancelled Ballistix.

I have a 2x16GB set of the most recent Ballistix Cas 16 3600mhz. Its great stuff. But its been sold out.

However, it looks like Newegg found a box of the Red ones and aren't jacking up the price
https://www.newegg.com/ballistix-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820164186?Description=crucial ballistix 32gb&cm_re=crucial_ballistix 32gb-_-20-164-186-_-Product&quicklink=true
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that the Micron is that much better than the Timetec CJR I have now for 32GB. Might clock a little higher, but I'm not sure it's worth $150 when I already have the other memory, and the next kit of RAM I buy is probably going to be DDR5 :D. I have a set of Ballistix in another computer I have. It's only 2x8GB though.
 
kirbyrj said:
I'm not sure that the Micron is that much better than the Timetec CJR I have now for 32GB. Might clock a little higher, but I'm not sure it's worth $150 when I already have the other memory, and the next kit of RAM I buy is probably going to be DDR5 :D. I have a set of Ballistix in another computer I have. It's only 2x8GB though.
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It may not be better. The point was that Crucial's Ballistix were guaranteed to be the higher quality Micron. So, if someone wanted quality Micron, that was an easy target.
 
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