X370 motherboards?

Dan_D said:
Yes, those are my words and I stand by them. Unfortunately, you are taking them out of context. It was a good motherboard but I still wouldn't put it's quality on par with most of what ASUS, MSI and GIGABYTE offer. Again, you used the word "best" and no motherboard from ASRock I've ever seen would qualify as the "best" in my experience for one reason or another.



ASUS supports XEON CPUs, ECC etc. on some models. That's not the feature set I'm talking about. That's not the feature set that costs money to implement either. I'm talking about audio, SATA ports, USB controllers, overclocking features, voltage check points, etc. You can't tell me that a $250 ASRock board is as feature rich as a $500 ASUS motherboard because it isn't. Even if it was, the quality wouldn't be on the same level.



Specificially, the X99-WS was a fantastic motherboard with the minor problem of the UEFI BIOS settings not being set to what they should be by default for stock operation in our case. That doesn't mean that this is the "best" X99 motherboard out there or a better option than those offered by the competition. It's a good motherboard at a good price but as usual, ASRock doesn't really compete until you get into their more expensive options.
Click to expand...
and you are taking my words out of context and using red herrings by talking about products i never mention. I explicitly stated 2 boards and you keep using a red herring about low end boards.

You claimed flimsy in your post and i retorted by showing your published review states 100% to the opposite. You are double talking.


You also said one of the best, which is a range which i followed same term-age. The ASRock x99 WS and OC formula competes with the best and is a fraction of the price and that is a fact. You keep using red herrings to distract from that.

you claimed i stated best which i didn't. I stated one of the best....jeez.
 
SomeGuy133 said:
and you are taking my words out of context and using red herrings by talking about products i never mention. I explicitly stated 2 boards and you keep using a red herring about low end boards.
Click to expand...

Herrings? What fucking herrings? You linked to a Z77 article I wrote as well as one about the X99-WS. That's TWO out of however many ASRock motherboards I've tested. My statements were general statements concerning ASRock as a brand. Statements I've made about the brand overall, and products that are the exception or fit into the norm are not "herrings" just because you won't acknowledge those statements.

SomeGuy133 said:
You claimed flimsy in your post and i retorted by showing your published review states 100% to the opposite. You are double talking.
Click to expand...

Aside from the X99-WS or some higher end motherboards I've run across from ASRock from time to time, ASRock motherboards are usually flimsy as fuck. Pointing out exceptions to the rule doesn't negate my opinion because one example is built better than that.

SomeGuy133 said:
You also said one of the best, which is a range which i followed same term-age. The ASRock x99 WS and OC formula competes with the best and is a fraction of the price and that is a fact. You keep using red herrings to distract from that.
Click to expand...

Yes, the aging Z77 OC Formula was a damn good motherboard. I never used the words: "The OC Formula competes with the best and is a fraction of the price and that is a fact." You keep repeating this shit but I didn't say that.

I said this:

"I know I’ve bagged on ASRock pretty hard in the past. I always felt that ASRock’ "rep" with me was well deserved. Its more recent offerings have been solid on the bench but not anything I’d actually buy for myself. Certainly those lower tier motherboards are worthy of recommendation with a word of caution about the thin PCBs and some other issues. The ASRock Z77 OC Formula is different. I have no reservations about using this board for anything. It feels and behaves as quality hardware should. It does what you tell it to do and doesn’t skip a beat. The Z77 OC Formula is the best ASRock motherboard I’ve used to date and it ranks among the best Z77 Express chipset boards I’ve reviewed. Try as I might I couldn’t find any serious faults with it.

My experiences with it out of the box, through setup, torture testing, and overclocking were nothing short of excellent and a fine example of what ASRock is capable of building. If you want a powerhouse of a board and you don’t want to spend a small fortune to get it, the Z77 OC Formula should definitely be on your short list."

No where did I say it was a fraction of the price of anything. It wasn't a fraction of the price of an equivalent ASUS motherboard. It was certainly cheaper, but lets not overstate things. Specifically, the higher end offerings I reviewed that you keep bringing up are the Z77 OC Formula and the X99-WS. These two motherboards are somewhat higher end offerings in their respective classes and are an example of what I've been saying for years. ASRock's cheaper motherboards aren't built well. Their cheaper motherboards may be substantially cheaper (not a fraction as that's your word, not mine) than ASUS, MSI or GIGABYTE offerings and while they work well I have concerns about longevity given their questionable build quality. Higher end motherboards from ASRock are often good alternatives to the more well established brands. That said, they are not necessarily on par with those offerings and their price reflects that. This is what I've always said. Those two reviews you want to point out do not change this, in fact that strengthen that statement. The first page of that Z77 OC Formula says exactly that or did you miss this statement:

"One thing that immediately stands out about the Z77 OC Formula compared to other ASRock boards we’ve looked at recently is the use of an 8 layer PCB."

This statement indicates my recent review (at the time) of cheaper ASRock motherboards which failed to impress me with their build quality. Those motherboards that are a "fraction of the price" as you put it aren't the same level of quality as anything from ASUS, MSI or GIGABYTE. Exceptions to this rule to not disprove the rule.

So go ahead, tell me what my opinion is again please. :rolleyes:

SomeGuy133 said:
you claimed i stated best which i didn't. I stated one of the best....jeez.
Click to expand...

O'rly?

SomeGuy133 said:
isn't 150-210 standard for MB? I always pay just over 200 for the best MB for intel.
Click to expand...

You said "the best" not "one of the best." This is the statement that started all of this. The "best" motherboard is relative and that's exactly what I said.
 
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Dan_D said:
Herrings? What fucking herrings? You linked to a Z77 article I wrote as well as one about the X99-WS. That's TWO out of however many ASRock motherboards I've tested. My statements were general statements concerning ASRock as a brand. Statements I've made about the brand overall, and products that are the exception or fit into the norm are not "herrings" just because you won't acknowledge those statements.



Aside from the X99-WS or some higher end motherboards I've run across from ASRock from time to time, ASRock motherboards are usually flimsy as fuck. Pointing out exceptions to the rule doesn't negate my opinion because one example is built better than that.



Yes, the aging Z77 OC Formula was a damn good motherboard. I never used the words: "The OC Formula competes with the best and is a fraction of the price and that is a fact." You keep repeating this shit but I didn't say that.

I said this:

"I know I’ve bagged on ASRock pretty hard in the past. I always felt that ASRock’ "rep" with me was well deserved. Its more recent offerings have been solid on the bench but not anything I’d actually buy for myself. Certainly those lower tier motherboards are worthy of recommendation with a word of caution about the thin PCBs and some other issues. The ASRock Z77 OC Formula is different. I have no reservations about using this board for anything. It feels and behaves as quality hardware should. It does what you tell it to do and doesn’t skip a beat. The Z77 OC Formula is the best ASRock motherboard I’ve used to date and it ranks among the best Z77 Express chipset boards I’ve reviewed. Try as I might I couldn’t find any serious faults with it.

My experiences with it out of the box, through setup, torture testing, and overclocking were nothing short of excellent and a fine example of what ASRock is capable of building. If you want a powerhouse of a board and you don’t want to spend a small fortune to get it, the Z77 OC Formula should definitely be on your short list."

No where did I say it was a fraction of the price of anything. It wasn't a fraction of the price of an equivalent ASUS motherboard. It was certainly cheaper, but lets not overstate things. Specifically, the higher end offerings I reviewed that you keep bringing up are the Z77 OC Formula and the X99-WS. These two motherboards are somewhat higher end offerings in their respective classes and are an example of what I've been saying for years. ASRock's cheaper motherboards aren't built well. Their cheaper motherboards may be substantially cheaper (not a fraction as that's your word, not mine) than ASUS, MSI or GIGABYTE offerings and while they work well I have concerns about longevity given their questionable build quality. Higher end motherboards from ASRock are often good alternatives to the more well established brands. That said, they are not necessarily on par with those offerings and their price reflects that. This is what I've always said. Those two reviews you want to point out do not change this, in fact that strengthen that statement. The first page of that Z77 OC Formula says exactly that or did you miss this statement:

"One thing that immediately stands out about the Z77 OC Formula compared to other ASRock boards we’ve looked at recently is the use of an 8 layer PCB."

This statement indicates my recent review (at the time) of cheaper ASRock motherboards which failed to impress me with their build quality. Those motherboards that are a "fraction of the price" as you put it aren't the same level of quality as anything from ASUS, MSI or GIGABYTE. Exceptions to this rule to not disprove the rule.

So go ahead, tell me what my opinion is again please. :rolleyes:



O'rly?



You said "the best" not "one of the best." This is the statement that started all of this. The "best" motherboard is relative and that's exactly what I said.
Click to expand...

Your level of intellectual dishonesty is staggering. I won't waste mucch more of my time because i have showed clearly to any objective person your full of shit for some reason.

You also said one of the best, which is a range which i followed same term-age. The ASRock x99 WS and OC formula competes with the best and is a fraction of the price and that is a fact. You keep using red herrings to distract from that.
Click to expand...

You originally used the term one of the best in this convo and this quote below supports that the ASRock Z77 OC forumla and ASRock X99 WS falls into that category.

The ASRock Z77 OC Formula is different. I have no reservations about using this board for anything. It feels and behaves as quality hardware should. It does what you tell it to do and doesn’t skip a beat. The Z77 OC Formula is the best ASRock motherboard I’ve used to date and it ranks among the best Z77 Express chipset boards I’ve reviewed. Try as I might I couldn’t find any serious faults with it.
Click to expand...

Z77 (never saw a Z97 review hence why i am using this as a point)
your words and proof falls into line with the english term "one of the best"
No complaints
is of quality
doesnt skip a beat
can't find any serious flaws.
there was more but i am not going to waste my time on you. Anyone can read the previous posts and the entire review and see your BS


X99
pinnacle of stability
integrated features worked flawlessly and met all expectations at the very least
The PCB is thick and straight, the components are all from easily recognized manufacturers and the selection made sense in all cases.
I only had 2 minor complaints (summarizing)
great motherboard
one of the few motherboards I’d consider a worthy competitor to higher priced alternatives from ASUS, MSI or GIGABYTE.
much more support in review but anyone can go read the source for themselves. I am just picking a few things.

You literally just said in the bold it is one of the best but in different words and the X99 is significantly less, which is a fact. All the stuff i pulled form your review and supports the english phrase and range of one of the best.

Stop being intellectually dishonest.

A red herring is something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important issue.[1] It may be either a logical fallacy or a literary device that leads readers or audiences towards a false conclusion. A red herring might be intentionally used, such as in mystery fiction or as part of rhetorical strategies (e.g. in politics), or it could be inadvertently used during argumentation.

I stated 2 boards and you went on a tangent about other boards I never mentioned. That is a red herring. You also changed the meaning of words to fit your argument, which you keep ignoring such dishonesty even though i called you out on it. Hell you even went into lengths to claim i called ASRock the best to distract from what was originally said. Can you be anymore dishonest?

You said some of the best as i quoted and continued that usage, which is a range and your reviews use plenty of words and evidence that would support such a saying qualifying ASRock X99 WS board as one of the best. If you want to claim those 2 boards are not even in the range of one of the best go back and change your review. I would love to see an edit saying these boards are not competitive with the best and are of a lower quality (your review even explicitly stated it was as i showed above). Do it...edit your review. Any person with a bit of honesty would say the words above and the totality of the review would fit the bill of being one of the best boards and a fraction of the cost.

SomeGuy133 said:
isn't 150-210 standard for MB? I always pay just over 200 for the best MB for intel.
Click to expand...

Where did I say ASRock is the best? Right...I didn't. You started the term-age in this post. Again being intellectually dishonest.

Dan_D said:
The best motherboard is relative. One of the best motherboards of the last generation was around $499 for Z170 and over $560 for X99. $200 can buy a solid mid-range motherboard with a nice feature set and great overclocking. Is it the best out there? Well that's leading into somewhat subjective territory but I'd say no.
Click to expand...

This is where the term-age started and where I retorted showing your reviews showing ASRock X99 WS competes with the best at half the price. Again Fact.

Anyways, I am not going to waste any more time on you since you are so ridiculously dishonest
 
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SomeGuy133 said:
Your level of intellectual dishonesty is staggering. I won't waste mucch more of my time because i have showed clearly to any objective person your full of shit for some reason.



You originally used the term one of the best in this convo and this quote below supports that the ASRock Z77 OC forumla and ASRock X99 WS falls into that category.



Z77 (never saw a Z97 review hence why i am using this as a point)
your words and proof falls into line with the english term "one of the best"
No complaints
is of quality
doesnt skip a beat
can't find any serious flaws.
there was more but i am not going to waste my time on you. Anyone can read the previous posts and the entire review and see your BS


X99
pinnacle of stability
integrated features worked flawlessly and met all expectations at the very least
The PCB is thick and straight, the components are all from easily recognized manufacturers and the selection made sense in all cases.
I only had 2 minor complaints (summarizing)
great motherboard
one of the few motherboards I’d consider a worthy competitor to higher priced alternatives from ASUS, MSI or GIGABYTE.
much more support in review but anyone can go read the source for themselves. I am just picking a few things.

You literally just said in the bold it is one of the best but in different words and the X99 is significantly less, which is a fact. All the stuff i pulled form your review and supports the english phrase and range of one of the best.

Stop being intellectually dishonest.

A red herring is something that misleads or distracts from a relevant or important issue.[1] It may be either a logical fallacy or a literary device that leads readers or audiences towards a false conclusion. A red herring might be intentionally used, such as in mystery fiction or as part of rhetorical strategies (e.g. in politics), or it could be inadvertently used during argumentation.

I stated 2 boards and you went on a tangent about other boards I never mentioned. That is a red herring. You also changed the meaning of words to fit your argument, which you keep ignoring such dishonesty even though i called you out on it. Hell you even went into lengths to claim i called ASRock the best to distract from what was originally said. Can you be anymore dishonest?

You said some of the best as i quoted and continued that usage, which is a range and your reviews use plenty of words and evidence that would support such a saying qualifying ASRock X99 WS board as one of the best. If you want to claim those 2 boards are not even in the range of one of the best go back and change your review. I would love to see an edit saying these boards are not competitive with the best and are of a lower quality (your review even explicitly stated it was as i showed above). Do it...edit your review. Any person with a bit of honesty would say the words above and the totality of the review would fit the bill of being one of the best boards and a fraction of the cost.



Where did I say ASRock is the best? Right...I didn't. You started the term-age in this post. Again being intellectually dishonest.



This is where the term-age started and where I retorted showing your reviews showing ASRock X99 WS competes with the best at half the price. Again Fact.

Anyways, I am not going to waste any more time on you since you are so ridiculously dishonest
Click to expand...

You aren't understanding my statements. That's not dishonestly, that's you being obtuse. If you look at my reviews and posts about the brand I've always been consistent with my opinions on ASRock motherboards, while changing them and re-evaluating them as my experiences with the brand have changed over time. There is nothing dishonest about that.

Welcome to my ignore list.
 
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Dan_D said:
You aren't understanding my statements. That's not dishonestly, that's you being obtuse. If you look at my reviews and posts about the brand I've always been consistent with my opinions on ASRock motherboards, while changing them and re-evaluating them as my experiences with the brand have changed over time. There is nothing dishonest about that.

Welcome to my ignore list.
Click to expand...
you literally did the red herring again. God you are dishonest.
 
I seriously hope that Cannonlake would be a major improvement. It is rather disappointing for Haswell users to upgrade to Skylake/Kabylake as there aren't a lot of features aside from efficiency and better overclocking capability. Yes, the newer processors make use of DDR4 rams, but I really don't see much of a benefit to upgrade to the latest Intel processors if you're using a Haswell processor. It is interesting that Cannonlake is using a smaller architecture, though.
 
Elory Besus said:
I seriously hope that Cannonlake would be a major improvement. It is rather disappointing for Haswell users to upgrade to Skylake/Kabylake as there aren't a lot of features aside from efficiency and better overclocking capability. Yes, the newer processors make use of DDR4 rams, but I really don't see much of a benefit to upgrade to the latest Intel processors if you're using a Haswell processor. It is interesting that Cannonlake is using a smaller architecture, though.
Click to expand...

We won't know for some time how much of an improvement Cannon Lake will provide in the real world until it's much closer to launch.
 
Elory Besus said:
I seriously hope that Cannonlake would be a major improvement. It is rather disappointing for Haswell users to upgrade to Skylake/Kabylake as there aren't a lot of features aside from efficiency and better overclocking capability. Yes, the newer processors make use of DDR4 rams, but I really don't see much of a benefit to upgrade to the latest Intel processors if you're using a Haswell processor. It is interesting that Cannonlake is using a smaller architecture, though.
Click to expand...

It is only for ULV at first which is nice for people who rely on ULV chips. It will be a big boost to an area that really needs any performance boost it can get. My i7 U6500 or whatever isn't too bad. It still is not desktop but ULVs have come a long way since 5 years ago.
 
SomeGuy133 said:
you literally did the red herring again. God you are dishonest.
Click to expand...
Come on! Are you being honest? Dan made a general statement on ASRock boards since he has direct experience with many of them and I take it you are happy with what you bought. Your experience alone cannot be the sole point for all other ASRock motherboards. I've have had good and bad ASRock motherboards. My last bent like a pretzel mounting a low profile HSF (A75M-ITX), it had good features and did work but talking about cheap ass as hell. Later I bought a not so much more expensive MSI board and it sure did not bend at all with the same HSF. I think ASRock is very good in getting the costs down, just beware of what you are getting.
 
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noko said:
Come on! Are you being honest? Dan made a general statement on ASRock boards since he has direct experience with many of them and I take it you are happy with what you bought. Your experience alone cannot be the sole point for all other ASRock motherboards. I've have had good and bad ASRock motherboards. My last bent like a pretzel mounting a low profile HSF (A75M-ITX), it had good features and did work but talking about cheap ass as hell. Later I bought a not so much more expensive MSI board and it sure did not bend at all with the same HSF. I think ASRock is very good in getting the costs down, just beware of what you are getting.
Click to expand...

The point was not ASRock as a brand but a select set of boards are great and far cheaper. He changed the whole discussion because he had no base.

It is like someone saying Kenmore sucks and is cheap and low quality when you are talking only about dishwashers which is one of the best on the market and mid range priced vs other "premium ones"
 
SomeGuy133 said:
The point was not ASRock as a brand but a select set of boards are great and far cheaper. He changed the whole discussion because he had no base.

It is like someone saying Kenmore sucks and is cheap and low quality when you are talking only about dishwashers which is one of the best on the market and mid range priced vs other "premium ones"
Click to expand...
I think Dan has a very good base for his statement since he has dealt with many ASRock and other motherboards to compare them to. Most brands have at least a few bad apples and some have many bad apples with some good ones. ASRock in general can be cheaper and lower quality but still have some good quality products as well. Dan even indicated it on his review you linked it to. Very consistent as far as I can see.

Your statement: "MY ASRock WS was one of the best and only $250-300 Who pays $500 when the exact same features and quality is 250-300?" What is your bases for comparing it to a $500 board, what board is that? I took that as a general statement as well. Now if you are saying all ASRock $250 boards are as good as all $500 boards that would be very laughable. Now from a subjective point of view if that $200 board does everything I would do with that $500 board since I would not use all the extra features that $500 board offers including a potential longer longevity or lifespan - I could say pretty much the same thing as well.

Do I think ASRock have some good mobo's for the money? I do! So does Dan. Do I think ASRock have consistently high quality mobo's? :LOL: They really don't but they do tend to work with what they use (just know what you are getting is all)

Chill
 
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noko said:
I think Dan has a very good base for his statement since he has dealt with many ASRock and other motherboards to compare them to. Most brands have at least a few bad apples and some have many bad apples with some good ones. ASRock in general can be cheaper and lower quality but still have some good quality products as well. Dan even indicated it on his review you linked it to. Very consistent as far as I can see.

Your statement: "MY ASRock WS was one of the best and only $250-300 Who pays $500 when the exact same features and quality is 250-300?" What is your bases for comparing it to a $500 board, what board is that? I took that as a general statement as well. Now if you are saying all ASRock $250 boards are as good as all $500 boards that would be very laughable. Now from a subjective point of view if that $200 board does everything I would do with that $500 board since I would not use all the extra features that $500 board offers including a potential longer longevity or lifespan - I could say pretty much the same thing as well.

Do I think ASRock have some good mobo's for the money? I do! So does Dan. Do I think ASRock have consistently high quality mobo's? :LOL: They really don't but they do tend to work with what they use (just know what you are getting is all)

Chill
Click to expand...

It's good to know that someone understood what I was getting at.
 
Dan_D said:
It's good to know that someone understood what I was getting at.
Click to expand...
I think most of us do and look forward to yours and other reviews here. What I really love here is the very end of each motherboard review where you get a brief by like from Kyle or others who also verified/tested results. That is very professional and unique here. That second and third view gives such weight or accuracy and catches things that may have been missed that other reviews/other sites sometimes miss by a mile.

I think we very much look forward to and this will be very refreshing, the AMD motherboards reviews.
 
noko said:
I think most of us do and look forward to yours and other reviews here. What I really love here is the very end of each motherboard review where you get a brief by like from Kyle or others who also verified/tested results. That is very professional and unique here. That second and third view gives such weight or accuracy and catches things that may have been missed that other reviews/other sites sometimes miss by a mile.

I think we very much look forward to and this will be very refreshing, the AMD motherboards reviews.
Click to expand...

It will be good to do something different. I haven't done anything but Intel boards for some time now. The Z270 really isn't that different than Z170 in review terms.
 
legcramp said:
*Cough* high-end Ryzen board shoot-out *Cough*
Click to expand...

This.

(Dan_D's statements are internally consistent and easily understood. SomeGuy133, you seem to be purposefully misunderstanding him. Or, there is an emotional element preventing you from rationally discussing ASRock. I'm a disinterested 3rd party observer. I suggest, respectfully, that you re-read what Dan_D has written here, and in the quoted reviews, and take particular note of the qualifying adjectives he has used. This all assumes that you are not an ASRock rep trying to something nefarious.)
 
c3k said:
This.

(Dan_D's statements are internally consistent and easily understood. SomeGuy133, you seem to be purposefully misunderstanding him. Or, there is an emotional element preventing you from rationally discussing ASRock. I'm a disinterested 3rd party observer. I suggest, respectfully, that you re-read what Dan_D has written here, and in the quoted reviews, and take particular note of the qualifying adjectives he has used. This all assumes that you are not an ASRock rep trying to something nefarious.)
Click to expand...

No I simply pointed out clear inconsistency and dishonesty in his words and how he purposely changed the original context of the conversation. "One of the best" to a different standard. Those were his words and he claimed ASRock (OC Forumla/X99 work station) was not one of the best and had flimsy boards and so on. Even though in his reviews he used very different words. If you honestly can't see his flip flop and lack of basic understanding of English that is on you.

I clearly pointed out that an ASRock board was half the price and had important features that many x99 boards did not have which makes it competitive with the best and did not have any of the cons he purported in his post according to his own words in his review.

If you can't see that is a massive amount of intellectual dishonest with his own words thrown in his face you have issues. Hell he even used basic logical fallacies to save face for some odd reason.

Post 43 clearly shows Dan is full of shit and is being dishonest. (used his own words as proof)
 
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legcramp said:
*Cough* high-end Ryzen board shoot-out *Cough*
Click to expand...

It's the higher end Ryzen boards that interest me the most. I'm curious as to what the motherboard manufacturers are doing with the design, High end Ryzen boards should be pretty inexpensive compared to Z270 or X99. They may be more relevant to the average enthusiast.
 
Dan_D said:
It's the higher end Ryzen boards that interest me the most. I'm curious as to what the motherboard manufacturers are doing with the design, High end Ryzen boards should be pretty inexpensive compared to Z270 or X99. They may be more relevant to the average enthusiast.
Click to expand...
Did they say anything about ECC? Are you going to review opterons? I am curious about how the 16 core opterons will do and if they are unlocked.

I might dump my Xeon for my server in that case.

16 core server chips could be pretty interesting especially if they are priced well. 8 core isn't really worth it when i have 6 as is. 12/16 has me interested for my server.
 
What i would like to see is actual stock of motherboards :( CPU showed up today but no motherboards for 2+ weeks
 
Yeah looks like the only real stock left anywhere are a couple of B350 boards from Asus and MSI
 
Manufacturers were probably going on stock based from the last AMD release... yeah we'll sell maybe a few hundred of these... Ryzen comes along.. oh crap Bert we need more power!
 
I think one of the reasons why AR has lower pricing is because they have a way lower cost structure, distribution, support and I think specially on marketing costs, which allows them to run on very tight margins. I'm pretty sure the quality is there.
 
MadOver said:
I think one of the reasons why AR has lower pricing is because they have a way lower cost structure, distribution, support and I think specially on marketing costs, which allows them to run on very tight margins. I'm pretty sure the quality is there.
Click to expand...

No they don't. Building a motherboard costs each company similar money. Selling those motherboards in the same parts of the worlds costs them similar money. I'll give you the fact that ASRock has a smaller PR / Marketing budget or even technical support costs but the costs of building the motherboards should be pretty much the same. Believe it or not, everyone uses the same suppliers for building their products. In fact, I'll tell you a story. ASUS designed the LGA 2011v3 "OC Socket." ASUS had these produced by Foxconn or one of the other socket suppliers. The socket supplier asked why they wanted the socket built that way and were basically told: "For R&D purposes" or something like that. Before you know it, those sockets were in the hands of ASUS' competition. MSI and GIGABYTE all have their own pet names for the socket design but the pin count and actual parts are the same across every brand. Why? Because the suppliers will pick up the phone and tell the other guys what company A is doing. This way they can sell products to company B, C, D, E and F. It's in their best interests to do things that way. Motherboard manufacturers have a hard time keeping secrets. The isolated PCB design of all the modern motherboards was first featured on ASUS' Republic of Gamers motherboards. Now every company builds their audio implementations that way.

When ASRock sells a higher end motherboard for less, they still cut some corners on the hardware to do it. On the cheap side of the house they cut a lot more corners. Show me any ASRock motherboard and I can give you at least one or two ways they cut costs over MSI, GIGABYTE or ASUS. I've seen a wide range of ASRock motherboards. The quality is there on some models, but not across the entire product stack. ASRock still plays by the same rules as everyone else. ASRock, like most companies doesn't produce their own PCB's either. This is where ASRock primarily cuts costs. On cheaper models its in the VRM components and PCB's that costs are cut. Even on the higher end of the spectrum such as with the Suppercarrier, that board uses cheaper audio than ASUS or GIGABYTE does on their higher end boards. Assuming everything else is the same, they still cut costs over their competition.

Some stuff boils down to negotiated prices with someone. If I tried to buy a dozen PLX chips alone they could cost me roughly $70 each. If I went to them with an order for 10,000 then I might pay a third less. I have no idea what the real numbers are but I'm just throwing out an example. The same goes for PCB's and other things. ASRock may target a higher volume of its high end boards because it knows they will charge around $100 less for them. As a result of some careful cost reduction in the PCB, audio and other components they can hit their target price. Cost cutting in some areas doesn't necessarily mean that the product is worse off for it. People associate lower costs with cheap shit but that's not always the deal. A thinner PCB costs less but then again a given design might need 6 layers. ASUS might need 8 for their design but it doesn't make it better. There are some very specialized and very expensive VRM's on the market as well as chokes etc. Using older, simpler designs doesn't mean the product is worse. It could be less efficient or not as pretty but being able to generate 2000 amps on a motherboard that only needs 200 is an exercise in dick wagging, not producing a better product.

Over building your VRM's looks good on paper. GIGABYTE is perhaps the king of this. However they use Killer NICs which I believe are much cheaper than Intel NICs. An ASMedia 1142 USB controller is far cheaper than an Alpine Ridge controller the same as Realtek audio is much cheaper than ESS Saber DACs or Creative Sound Core 3D processors plus Creative's licensing costs. The moral of the story is this: ASRock isn't your hero because they run their business leaner. ASRock is competing against virtual giants in their industry and they have to be aggressive with its pricing in order to do that. If you think this can be done without compromising quality in some area I've got some prime Arizona beachfront property I'd lick to talk to you about.

Keep in mind, ASUS, GIGABYTE and MSI all cut costs in various areas too. They just don't cut them in the same places ASRock does. Different brands use different tactics to accomplish the same thing. What I try to do for you guys is to tell you where those cost cutting measures are and let you decide which features or cost cutting measures are acceptable to you. If you aren't using LN2, does 2,000 amps of power output matter to you? If you aren't going to use onboard fan controls do you really care about ASUS' Fan Xpert4? Specialized IC's run that and raise costs. ASRock and ASUS use socketed BIOS ROMs. Those cost more money. No one else does this. Do you care? MSI doesn't usually bother with feature bloat on its current Titanium XPower line. You don't have the PLX or wireless controllers. Does that matter if you aren't going multiGPU and using wired LAN?

ASRock, MSI, GIGABYTE, and ASUS all make pretty damn good motherboards. There are models from each company I wouldn't recommend and plenty that I would. What truly differentiates these motherboards is normally features above all else. This is why we examine these in detail and pass the information along to you. You can then decide what motherboard fits your build needs or upgrade needs the best. Some people have certain biases towards one brand or another. That's fine. I get people all the time who get mad at me for trashing their favorite brand or because I said something about it that they didn't like. It's par for the course and just another day at the office for me.
 
gigaxtreme1 said:
I thought Asrock was an arm of Asus.
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Essentially, ASUSTek restructured in 2007 into three companies. ASUS, Pegatron and Unihan. In 2010, Pegatron spun-off completely from ASUS and acquired ASRock and Unihan. So while there is a connection through Unihan and Pegatron, ASRock and ASUS exist completely independently today.

If anything, ASRock has benefited greatly from the perceived connection to ASUS. Many people think that ASRock and ASUS make the exact same motherboards with some cosmetic differences, and that ASRock simply charges less because they don't carry the ASUS name. This couldn't be further from the truth as the two produce entirely different designs.
 
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Pegatron. Contract manufacturer originally? I forget but do remember board factories at one point in China.
 
Dan_D said:
Over building your VRM's looks good on paper. GIGABYTE is perhaps the king of this. However they use Killer NICs which I believe are much cheaper than Intel NICs.
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Intel 1Gb PCIe cards are ~$30 new and last forever. Gotta use those 1x slots for something (matters more for SFF I guess)
 
Let me rephrase: As far as I know, Pegatron, ASUS and likely ASRock actually contract out much of their motherboard manufacturing specifically. This is more common than you think. Very few companies have the ability to produce their own PCB's. That's not to say they don't build anything, they obviously do but a lot of it comes from outside sources like Foxconn and I think Flextronics. As far as I know, there isn't and never has been a "Pegatron" branded motherboard. They have subsidiaries that manufacturer motherboards in whole or in part, but Pegatron itself does not build them.
 
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Dan_D said:
They are even cheaper when integrated into the motherboard.
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You only have to buy one the one time usually. :)
Discrete NICs are cheaper to replace if they get fried. Anybody run surge protection on their cable/phone lines?
 
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