YouTube Gamers Caught In Gambling Row

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by HardOCP News, Jul 6, 2016.

  1. HardOCP News

    HardOCP News [H] News

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    The CSGO gambling saga took an interesting twist over the weekend. It would seem that two of the biggest YouTubers in the CSGO community were promoting a skin gambling site to their millions of followers without disclosing that they were actually the owners of the site. It doesn't sound bad at first, that is until you watch their scammy videos where they faked "winning" thousands of dollars in just a few minutes and pretended they had no affiliation with the gambling site they actually owned. The video below contains NSFW language but does a good job explaining the situation.

    "As crazy as it may seem, some of the skins go for thousands of dollars. Many professional players have that sort of money to splash out." "Their videos showed them winning thousands of dollars very easily, and that invites a lot of questions. They're inviting their fans to put money into a website, and actually they're also behind it.
     
  2. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    I still don't understand why this is such a surprise to anyone. Gambling has been a shady business since it was invented thousands of years ago. Just because the stakes have changed doesn't mean attitudes and motivations have. The love of money is the root of all evil.
     
  3. Tiberian

    Tiberian DILLIGAFuck

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    Every single one of 'em should have their keyboards smashed across their skulls ala the scene in the movie "Wanted" like so:

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Carouselambra

    Carouselambra Gawd

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    I didn't like this guy at first but he grows on you. It's actually quite entertaining
     
  5. Gweenz

    Gweenz [H]ard|Gawd

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    Shady people on the internet doing shady things. World keeps turning.
     
  6. harmattan

    harmattan [H]ardness Supreme

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    "It doesn't sound bad at first..." What??? Those guys are promoting and betting on the site without disclosing, also owned it (potentially controlling the outcome of contests). That's textbook illegality. Not even mentioning they're promoting gambling to pre-teens...

    This is like if Pete Rose had controlled the rules of baseball while he was playing, and was making advertisements for bookies.
     
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  7. fadedlogic

    fadedlogic Limp Gawd

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    As the great Ron Bennington often sez; two kinds of people in this world "Carnies and Rubes".
     
  8. Gigus Fire

    Gigus Fire 2[H]4U

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    Lol. CS GO gambling? Stupid kids deserve to lose their money
     
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  9. v6maro

    v6maro [H]ard|Gawd

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    These guys are going to get hammered - all the gambling and black market selling is a huge issue. You can make a ton of money unregulated (traders can make a LOT of money). All without paying taxes. Uncle sam will soon get involved.
     
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  10. HardOCP News

    HardOCP News [H] News

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    I said that because the average person doesn't know what CSGO is, what skins are, etc. etc. etc. so they have no idea why this is a big deal. Even then, it still doesn't sound like a big deal to them.
     
  11. Beaflag VonRathburg

    Beaflag VonRathburg Limp Gawd

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    I don't see a way that they can get around this. The facts are right there and you can compare it against the cached pages. How do they think editing their descriptions after the fact are going to make this better.
     
  12. VooDooPC

    VooDooPC n00b

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    Even if you completely remove CounterStrike and say, "Two large YouTubers promote gambling site, not disclosing they actually own it", sounds pretty bad. I don't know anything about CounterStrike, but everything before the "It doesn't sound bad at first", sounded pretty bad.
     
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  13. PrincessDie

    PrincessDie Gawd

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    It's just desperate attempts at damage control.
     
  14. Gweenz

    Gweenz [H]ard|Gawd

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    It's easy on the internet to take the truth and bury it under lies and obfuscation, even after being caught.


    As a side note, that Tmartn2 guy has one of the most punchable faces I've ever seen.
     
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  15. rat

    rat [H]ardness Supreme

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    Little bit of trivia, that's a rather young (and to me almost unrecognizable) Chris Pratt getting smacked with the keyboard.
     
  16. Beaflag VonRathburg

    Beaflag VonRathburg Limp Gawd

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    It's almost too late for them with all of the proof being out there. While I agree with you one hundred percent about obfuscation, the eye of the court can usually see through this bullshit. I have a feeling (and hope) they're going to get royally reemed by the FTC.
     
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  17. HardOCP News

    HardOCP News [H] News

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    Don't you know? Gabe Newell says it's not gambling. So the headline is "Two large YouTubers promote skin swapping site, not disclosing they actually own it" which doesn't sound like a big deal to the average person.

    Anyway, I hope these two get what they have coming. They should have their accounts (Steam / YouTube) banned and they should be investigated for fraud.
     
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  18. Gweenz

    Gweenz [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah if they go to court (which I believe it will) they are completely screwed. I was talking more about how they can keep their "views" coming in, and with views come profits.
     
  19. britjh22

    britjh22 Limp Gawd

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    I really hope these guys get shafted on this, the FTC should take their asses to task. Also, Totalbiscuit has a GREAT rant about the whole thing, to steal from someone else, "John Bain bringing the Pain".
     
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  20. Dwango

    Dwango Gawd

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    Would like it if things worked out that way, but it won't. These guys will delete their promo videos and lose a few thousand subscribers and they'll hunker down until the internet latches on to the next big OMGWTF!!!! moment and they'll be free to continue on like none of this ever happened. As it is only a small subset of YouTube's gaming wing is even discussing this.

    And law enforcement won't do anything because none of them will be able to process that art assets in a game could possibly be worth anything at all.
     
  21. Beaflag VonRathburg

    Beaflag VonRathburg Limp Gawd

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    ^ I have a feeling that the youtube thing is just weathering the storm. I do really hope that the FTC rails them though and investigates to see if the outcomes were rigged in those videos. You'd be surprised at some of their judgements. They railed Trendon Shavers years ago for running a Bitcoin Ponzi scheme and at the time, Bitcoin was something that 99% of the general population didn't know about.
     
  22. Quix

    Quix 2[H]4U

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    1 conviction is the exception to the rule really, considering all of Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme.
     
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  23. Spidey329

    Spidey329 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That's up for interpretation. To me, gambling is gambling. I can't start a casino and claim it's not gambling by calling it "clay-plastic coin shaped object swapping site" if those items happen to be redeemable for real money. In this instance, the skins are acting as the token or "stakes". Gambling requires three components - consideration [risking something of value, a skin], chance [an uncertain outcome is present here], prize [winning something in exchange, e.g. another skin]. They have those here. I'd wager these guys (being the owner of the site) are about to get a government smackdown, the one thing the government doesn't like is not getting a piece of the pie.

    I'm still confused as to why "skins" have any value. I assume we're talking about textures for the models or something?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2016
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  24. Azrak

    Azrak Gawd

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    Skin swapping site sounds like some bad sexual encounters site to me, but I'm old.
     
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  25. Dullard

    Dullard 2[H]4U

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    Raises hand!
     
  26. bizzmeister

    bizzmeister [H]ard|Gawd

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    I've deposited over 2k worth of skins in different pots at csgolotto.com . Tmartn (one of the owners) has come in and swooped in and won the pot numerous times over 7-8k in skins lol.


    I knew some shit was up a longggggggggg time ago.
     
  27. nysmo

    nysmo Gawd

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    It's great, in one of the videos you can watch him shuffling between tabs in chrome when he realizes that he is logged into 2 different accounts at the same time. One is an obvious backend account called "csgolotto BOT #6" or something. You can see a moment of sheer panic come over his face realizing that his viewers can see this, to which he quickly refreshes the page and tabs out so that it comes back up under his normal login. Scumbag was gambling against himself, and I'm sure he rigged it too since I believe he just doubled his bets 7x in a row to go from $50 to $5000 or something.
     
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  28. Inacurate

    Inacurate Limp Gawd

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    I don't see the problem with the advertising aspect. No, am not trolling! (Sad that I feel the need to state that..)

    This is a common practice in the US, where a company/individual owns a conflicting interest via third parties, shell companies, etc. (IMO, this example includes companies that are given the OK to merge when a clearly obvious monopoly or dominance in the specific market would be the result.)

    Why is the advertiser at fault for promoting their own company, affiliations known or not?

    It's my decision if I allow their advertisement to sway any decisions I make.
    They shouldn't be at fault for advertising their business to followers. Who cares if they own it?

    I see no difference between this and a Twitch streamer sitting on a DXRacer chair/using x headset that was given to them for free for advertising.
    Or an athlete who promotes a brand, of which they receive free product.

    Now, if there are any issues as to the validity of who wins what and the owners seemingly walking away with pots more often than not, that's a different matter.
     
  29. sfsuphysics

    sfsuphysics I don't get it

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    Why? Because people are fucking retarded enough to gamble for skins in a game?
     
  30. ccmfreak2

    ccmfreak2 Limp Gawd

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    bool isAnOwner = ownerCheck(UserName);
    if (isAnOwner) {
    WinChange = "85%";
    }


    Yeah, such a placement of code within the site wouldn't be hard at all.
     
  31. Pringle

    Pringle 2[H]4U

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    As fucking retarded as these two are, nothing negative will come from this (in regards to their income/popularity). The majority of their fanbase is 12-17 year olds who spend hundreds of dollars on .jpg's.
     
  32. Pringle

    Pringle 2[H]4U

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    Because what these two did was literally illegal o_O
     
  33. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    Yes, they are textures for gun and knife models. That is it. Yet there people out there willing to regularly spend hundreds of dollars a piece on such things simply due to RNG-induced rarity.
     
  34. Insula Gilliganis

    Insula Gilliganis [H]ard|Gawd

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  35. Tiberian

    Tiberian DILLIGAFuck

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    No, of course not. They should have the keyboards smashed upside their heads because they willfully chose to do something on purpose that's not only illegal but also just a fucking scumbucket thing to do to others. I don't care if people are fucking stupid on their own, it's whenever other people decide that because people are fucking stupid they're going to manipulate them because they're fucking stupid and do things to take advantage of their fellow stupid fucking humans that really irks the fuck outta me on multiple levels. It's one thing to sit around knowing people are fucking stupid, it's another thing entirely to go out of your way as a bystander watching them be fucking stupid and decide "You know, I can find a way to make money from this..." and actually follow through with it.

    Does that adequately answer your condescending question? :D
     
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  36. westrock2000

    westrock2000 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    WAIT WAIT WAIT.

    You are saying people play Counter Strike and bet on the outcome. And for the wager they use graphic skins?

    And there is money somehow involved in this?

    Do these skins have some type of DRM on them? Can you not just copy them?

    Someone needs to explain this shit, and do it fast.
     
  37. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm pretty sure by law, and I could be wrong ( link me proof ) that they do not have to disclose anything legally. Ethically? Sure, maybe.

    There is a whole gray area out there of gambling. While gambling directly with money for a chance to win money is a highly regulated industry, there are several businesses that bypass these laws. Some states have very strict rules on this where you can't pull a dime out of your pocket for anything other than to buy a piece of candy or throw it in a fountain.

    Again, this could fall in that arena, I'm not sure, I would have to be linked proof, but you can bypass these laws by removing the money directly and instead of saying, I will wager 3 quarters per pull in this slot machine for a chance at the jackpot, you instead buy tokens and could possible win an iPhone or whatever the case may be. Not an exact comparison but something along those lines.

    I travel a lot. I see all sorts of this shit at truck stops. pull tabs that are not regulated by the feds or the state, those push / pull quarter machines you drop quarters into hoping to knock coins into the collection bin, other weird shit on occasion.

    Also, it sounds like kids are involved. Well, the law allows this, doesn't? Once you're a certain age you can on your own ( maybe with a parents permission ) order diamonds or gold eagles or credits or whatever they are calling it for that particular app and then of course, use that 'in-game currency' to wager for whatever whatever.

    I admit, I don't know the full circumstances here because I personally am just not interested in this game but I wouldn't be so quick to judge. Some of these people are soap-boxing and doing a lot of hollering, maybe just to hear their own voice. So, I dunno. I would keep an open mind about it. The biggest red flag here against the people doing all the finger pointing is ....... they are still doing this, and apparently, legally. Valve has a ton of highly paid attorneys through which-ever lawfirm they are contracted with to rep them. I am positive they've had at some point an army of ex-state attorneys, judges and hundreds of years of combined experience lawyers over everything they do or associated with.

    Sometimes the peanut gallery can make A-LOT-OF-NOISE. And If I am way off base here, I'm fine with that too.
     
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  38. Beaflag VonRathburg

    Beaflag VonRathburg Limp Gawd

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    No offense intended here, but I didn't read your whole post. You can find the FTC regulations regarding endorsements here: The FTC’s Endorsement Guides: What People Are Asking | Federal Trade Commission . They were knowingly endorsing a product without disclosing that they were indeed the owners of the business. This is morally wrong, but to the larger extent illegal in the US under FTC regulation. Now, the fact of the matter is they were endorsing a product that has to do with chance where they could manipulate the outcome for purposes of enhanced profit and marketing. I'm sure all those times where they were streaming and hit some magical win streak on their own website winning prizes of $10,000+ had everything to do with probability and there was no outside influences...
     
  39. buhbuhfet

    buhbuhfet Limp Gawd

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    look i found this cool site, and i'm winning so much, you can too! lol, what a bunch of sleazebags
     
  40. lcpiper

    lcpiper [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Can't get profits off a site that been seized as evidence and delisted.