- Apr 28, 2007
I appreciate the time and effort you have put into your replies, if only you had read my earlier posts instead of assuming my stance on AMD.I suspect that the next cards from NVIDIA may be slightly cheaper. Its hard to say given that the complexity of these cards has increased each generation. However, what we are seeing now could be the new normal. Unfortunately, we don't know yet. A lack of serious competition from AMD is part of the reason for NVIDIA pricing. Until that changes, I think this is the new normal. Unfortunately, AMD charges nearly as much as NVIDIA does in many price points for a card that performs worse.
Yes they did. However, you have to examine the reasons behind this. I suspect they moved the "Ti" up to the Titan's old price point as the last few Titan cards have been decent sellers for gamers. Prosumers who really need the compute power generally have bigger budgets, so they've placed the Titan in a price bracket that used to be exclusive to the Quadro family. Those cards are also probably more often sold in OEM channels than through outlets and sites that deal in DIY hardware. NVIDIA's statement as I recall mentioned poor sales of the 2070 and 2080 and not the 2080 Ti specifically. I'll wager the latter did fairly well like the Titan V and Titan Xp before it. The reason why the 2070 and 2080 TI's sold poorly is due to the fact that they aren't really fast enough for ray tracing and because they are barely an upgrade over the cards they replaced. Certainly not enough to justify the replacement of so many 1080 and 1080Ti cards out there already.
As a 1080 Ti owner, the 2080 offered nothing but a small performance boost that wasn't worth the price of admission and a ray tracing feature I couldn't really use right now. Not only are there too few titles to use it with but the card isn't really fast enough for that.
I'm trying to make sense of this, but I am not sure what you are talking about.
Well that is an option and at no point would your money go directly to NVIDIA or AMD. Unfortunately, the last couple years have seen prices on used GPU's at insane levels. I'm not sure you'd be saving enough to offset the pain of buying new enough to justify the wait. That's a personal call for you.
My whole point is that people want to demonize NVIDIA. It certainly deserves that but on the other side of the coin, as a business, AMD has proven to be largely mismanaged and that's putting it nicely. In a sense, your arguing over which company is worse. On one end you acknowledge NVIDIA's wrong doings and are seemingly unaware of how badly run AMD is and how bad it can treat its customers. I know first hand what the darker side of AMD looks like.
NVIDIA may be immoral at times, but how moral is it to mismanage a company so badly that it nearly craters every few years? The executives doing this are still well paid for their "leadership" and ran the company into the ground with ineptitude. Now, obviously Lisa Sue isn't the same as the old guard and things are changing there. However, in the past on the AMD side, they've done some things which are questionable at best. Internally, they ran off many talented engineers over the years leading to worse products. Its had an inability to retain talent for a reason. AMD ignores issues rather than solving them. There was a well known EDID issue with AMD cards that lasted for years. (It could still exist for all I know.) I've gone to them about issues with Crossfire and Eyefinity on some of their cards, or mGPU issues and they've completely blown me off and pretended the problems didn't exist only to fix them with a hardware redesign in its next generation. I've gone to them as a customer and through with Kyle via HardOCP. Those discussions never amounted to anything.
In similar situations, NVIDIA has never been like that. This may sound like personal slights, but it comes down to AMD making a worse product, getting it reported by many customers (not just me), and then ignoring that for years on end. That's terrible customer service on top of being a company that's been largely mismanaged. From a customer service perspective, NVIDIA is vastly superior to AMD on every front. My point is that both companies are guilty of things that many people would boycott them over. The hardware industry evolves and changes more than most and who's worthy of your hard earned dollar today will be the company you'll want to boycott tomorrow and vice versa. People have these preconceived perceptions about these companies and how they work internally, but aren't close enough to them to know anything. They simply think, Intel is huge and therefore evil. AMD is small and therefore its an underdog and a champion of the people. Larger business practices aside, to the average consumer, I can tell you for a fact Intel is far nicer and more caring than AMD is and as a general rule NVIDIA will give you better customer service than AMD will.
Obviously, its your money and you can vote with your wallet however you want. I fully support that, but understand that if you think AMD is some pillar of virtue and a champion of the blue collar gamer, think again. They'd charge you $1,100 for a GPU if they had one that they thought they could sell at that price. Their CPUs are only priced so well because they have to be. If AMD had an IPC advantage, a core advantage and the clock speed advantage to definitively out perform Intel at every turn, their CPUs wouldn't be so cheap. That Threadripper 2990WX would likely be $3,000+. That upcoming Ryzen 16c for AM4 wouldn't see the light of day for under a grand.
Without a doubt. That's something they utterly failed on this generation. The only card worth having was the RTX 2080 Ti, and it was priced like the previous Titan V which puts it way outside of reach for most people. I don't blame anyone who kept what they had from last generation. Unfortunately, I'm in that position with my monitor resolution and my tastes in games and settings that forces me to pay to play. I have to buy the best solutions I can to keep up. The GTX 1080 Ti's were great and I got allot of use out of them. Unfortunately, they still didn't cut it thanks to the game developers failure to support SLI very well. So the RTX 2080 Ti is a card I was foaming at the mouth to buy.
We aren't likely to see eye to eye on all this stuff, just keep in mind that there is dirt on all these companies. The publicly traded ones are the worst as they have a duty to produce results for their share holders. This leads them towards ever greedier behavior. NVIDIA may be the devil, but AMD is far from being a saint. Take that for what you will.
In summary we agree on almost everything.
you have an "I" added at the start of most of the quotes from my post
"If they dont and AMD dont jump on the same train, they will likely be my next purchase."
should be read as
If NVidia keep prices high and AMD dont, I will take a long hard look at what AMD has to offer.
It did read like crap lol.