Your format of choice for TV show archiving?

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xFROSTx

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I've never really given this much thought until recently, so I'm curious what others have to say. Ever since I started tinkering with HTPC's almost 5 years ago, I have always encoded my TV shows I want to save into divx. 300 megs for a 30 min show and 600 for 1 hour. Since I was pretty much only saving animated comedies (South Park, Family Guy, Simpsons), I noticed no real quality loss, even on my 52 inch plasma, and the space saving was nice. Recently I have been getting into saving some other shows (Burn Notice, House) and am wondering if I should save to a better format. I don't believe divx does true 5.1 sound and when it comes to shows with some action, I think the quality may leave a little to be desired. The space doesn't bother me nowadays with hard drives so cheap, so I am curious now what others do. 5 years is a lot in the computer world and I'm sure I'm behind on this one. I was thinking of just encoding the .vobs of the dvd into a dvr-ms file like I do for my dvd's. Definitely quicker than encoding to divx. Are there any other pluses?
 
CrimandEvil said:
H264. Use it.
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I looked into this a little while ago, but gave up because I couldn't find any quality info on it. What's a good encoder to use? Will my 360 support this format? Crim, do you have any links to some how-to guides?
 
I use WHS with PP3 to move them to my WHS. I do not reencode them, but it allows you to change them to various different codecs
 
I'm a converted fan of H.264 either in MKV or MP4 wrappers. Most of my encoding is done to MP4 in iPod resolutions to take to work on my iPhone or Zune.

I played around with Handbrake as well as other options and honestly, trying to find the perfect settings was always a pain. Then I tried out MediaShrink. You can set up the configuration files and then just drag-and-drop the files you want converted and let it do it's thing. Since the majority of stuff I encode is either kids shows (my daughter is addicted to Between the Lions now) I just set the bitrate to 1500, MP4 format, single pass, and resize the horizontal to 320 to meet the iPod settings. These settings seem to work great for SD content as well (History Channel, SyFy, etc.) not only on my phone but also my 27" SDTV and as good as one could expect on my 42" LCD.

Of course I use Dirmon2 to monitor a folder and process the videos, and then just drop the MPG files and their respective VideoRedo commercial cut files in after I manually process the commercials...
 
xFROSTx said:
Any advice on quality settings?
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Everybody is different and it also depends on how you want to play the files. For example, if you want to play them on an iPhone later, you can't use certain advanced features of the encoder. Knowing more about your situation would be helpful. Are you starting with a DVD or an already-compressed file? What will you be playing it on? How much do you care about the filesize? What is your time worth to you (do you need a fast encode with lower quality, or can we do a slower encode for better quality)?
 
sap said:
Everybody is different and it also depends on how you want to play the files. For example, if you want to play them on an iPhone later, you can't use certain advanced features of the encoder. Knowing more about your situation would be helpful. Are you starting with a DVD or an already-compressed file? What will you be playing it on? How much do you care about the filesize? What is your time worth to you (do you need a fast encode with lower quality, or can we do a slower encode for better quality)?
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I'm starting with a DVD and will be playing it on my 52inch plasma. Don't really care about filesize and I'm up in the air about the time issue. Divx was tolerable because I could setup a queue and let it go in several hour chunks (Even though handbreak can do this too). My server has a 3.2 quad core in it so I could encode a file in just about as long as it would take it watch said file (20-40 min per show). I'm half tempted to just encode the vob's into dvr-ms files like I have done for all myy dvd's. I don't notice any quality loss and it's a quick conversion. My only issue is 1-2 gig per episode is a little on the high side...
 
I use my 360's as Media Center Extenders, not sure if that's how you utilizing yours, but I use AutoRipNCompress to rip and convert to WTV format. Works flawlessly on extenders, and it doesn't take a lot of time at all per dvd.
 
If you dont care about file size then in handbrake do Constant bitrate at 18, mkv file with ac3 passthru.

Just use a preset and see how it looks. There are a TON of settings you can set in handbrake so you cant just ask for some. i mean you can but there is close to 50! possibilities.
 
Vader said:
I use my 360's as Media Center Extenders, not sure if that's how you utilizing yours, but I use AutoRipNCompress to rip and convert to WTV format. Works flawlessly on extenders, and it doesn't take a lot of time at all per dvd.
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WTV is essentially the same at dvr-ms. No complaint there, but at 1-2 gigs a file, I'm only going this way if there is no better option.
 
TheResidentEvil said:
If you dont care about file size then in handbrake do Constant bitrate at 18, mkv file with ac3 passthru.

Just use a preset and see how it looks. There are a TON of settings you can set in handbrake so you cant just ask for some. i mean you can but there is close to 50! possibilities.
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Yeah, I'm noticing this. I need to rephrase my question into "which preset do you prefer"? Basically, I'm trying to avoid wasting a day or two encoding a bunch of videos with different presets. Narrowing it down to a couple would be ideal.
 
I use Handbrake, x264, into an MKV with AC3 passthrough for all my DVD TV shows. If you're ripping from Blu Ray Ripbot264 into an MKV is the way to.
 
xFROSTx said:
I'm starting with a DVD and will be playing it on my 52inch plasma. Don't really care about filesize and I'm up in the air about the time issue. Divx was tolerable because I could setup a queue and let it go in several hour chunks (Even though handbreak can do this too). My server has a 3.2 quad core in it so I could encode a file in just about as long as it would take it watch said file (20-40 min per show). I'm half tempted to just encode the vob's into dvr-ms files like I have done for all myy dvd's. I don't notice any quality loss and it's a quick conversion. My only issue is 1-2 gig per episode is a little on the high side...
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Personally, I would use the following set up:

Full resolution (shouldn't need to change any settings in handbrake)
MP4 container (or MKV if you want, it doesn't really matter in the end)
2500kbps x264 encode
128-192kbps AAC audio
Subtitles optional
Two pass encoding

You can look at the Advanced features, most of them are well-explained in tooltips. Be careful though, as using some of these may break compatibility with certain players. What are you using to play the files on your TV? One of the built-in presets may fit your needs nicely, so check them out before doing all this by hand.
 
If you have the DVD (and don't care about size) just do a full VOB rip to disc. Plays perfectly in WMC, and since this is TV shows (multi episodes per disk) you get to keep full menus.
 
drgnfang said:
If you have the DVD (and don't care about size) just do a full VOB rip to disc. Plays perfectly in WMC, and since this is TV shows (multi episodes per disk) you get to keep full menus.
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For movies, yes. That's the the best thing to do (but ripping just the movie and leaving the menus and all behind) but for TV shows it's a pain in the ass to do any sort of cataloging unless you rip them into individual episodes. Just try doing this with metabrowser and a ripped DVD vob. Pain in the ass.
 
So many things wrong with that...

First, rather than the ~ 1000 "discs" that I manage, you are managing ~ 4000+ "episodes" (average of 4/disc). That sir is insane.

Second, if you are going to bother keeping it in an archive quality format (the original VOB), why would you strip out the menus, subtitles, languages, etc.. You know, all the stuff that makes the format useful?

Third I organize as such:
\\vault\dvd\tv\Showname\Showname - S##D##\VIDEO_TS\ [For single season shows I use just use D##)
Mount it as a drive @ the "dvd" level
Load into WHS library for each "section" (TV, Movies, etc...)
Like magic all of the discs just show up under "Movies" in WMC.

Every 3 or 4 months I grab the disc images off the net, add a "Disc #" to the image, save as a JPG and drop it into the respective folder. Don't care/need the rest of the meta data.
 
I don't see how there is anything at all wrong with that. I can't speak for what he does but I suspect it's something similiar to the following. I use MakeMKV to rip each episode and then store them as mkvs in the following tree structure \\server\tv\show\season #\. This preserves the media at the exact same quality level, which I prefer to any sort of compression. I then let Metabrowser do its thing grabbing all the metadata for nice presentation in Mediabrowser on my HTPCs. A much nicer experience than the built in browser in my opinion.

I don't see how this is any more insane than ripping the entire dvd structure for features that I do not care for. If I am going to watch an episode of The Office I want to hit play and have the show start, not launch the disc so I can wait at another menu. I also do not need the extra languages or subtitles, etc. In my opinion that is just a waste of precious storage space on my server that can be better utilized by more media.
 
Alright, I've tinkered with this all day and in my opinion, just encoding the .vob's into a dvr-ms file is my best option. I first tried the normal preset to get a baseline (I used the same episode every time, yeah I'm that anal). File size was good (500 megs), but the quality was lacking when I blew it up on the TV. I tried the high profile one next, and while it was an improvement in quality it seemed, it didn't look all that much better then my divx rips. My last test was bumping the constant quality adjustment up to 75% vs. the 60% the presets came with. This gave me similar quality to what I would expect straight off the disc, but the file size was bigger than the dvr-ms rip. Now that I have run myself in circles, A dvr-ms rip takes me 20 min per disk, is much easier than encoding into something else, and has good quality. Yeah the file size is kinda on the steep side, but I would rather have the quality. Plus, 3 years down the road when 10TB hard drives cost $100, I wont be pissed off at myself for encoding so much shit when it doesn't matter now. Disclaimer: I am not some sort of crazy home theater nut here. This very well could be in my head, feel free to call me out.

For those of you wondering why I'm on the dvr-ms bandwagon (I know it's not the most popular option), I'll explain. I used to keep all DVD's in video_ts folders (Menus and shit stripped out), TV shows were divx, and recorded TV (By default) was dvr-ms. As my collection grew, this became ridiculous. Simplicity is the key. I used to have an overly complicated vista setup, which did damn near everything, but required a lot of setup, configuring and adjustments depending on what I was doing. Finally I got fed up with this and converted all my video_ts DVD's into dvr-ms file with a program called video-redo. Only took a min or two per DVD and all of my "Format not supported" issues are gone. (Insert flame here about how I don't know how to setup X system which really caused all my problems). Whatever, if you've been doing this for a while, you know as well as I do that sometimes, shit breaks for no fucking reason. Dvr-ms is nativity supported (I know, so is MKV), DVD quality (I know, MKV can be too) and 2 min conversion from my DVD (Sorry MKV, you lose this one). I'm not bashing MP4 or MKV in any way, it's pretty good actually. Its that I have been doing this long enough, that I believe encoding isn't the best idea for serious users. The hard drive space savings isn't worth my time usually, and having something so simple the girlfriend can operate is a huge plus.
 
drgnfang said:
So many things wrong with that...

First, rather than the ~ 1000 "discs" that I manage, you are managing ~ 4000+ "episodes" (average of 4/disc). That sir is insane.

Second, if you are going to bother keeping it in an archive quality format (the original VOB), why would you strip out the menus, subtitles, languages, etc.. You know, all the stuff that makes the format useful?

Third I organize as such:
\\vault\dvd\tv\Showname\Showname - S##D##\VIDEO_TS\ [For single season shows I use just use D##)
Mount it as a drive @ the "dvd" level
Load into WHS library for each "section" (TV, Movies, etc...)
Like magic all of the discs just show up under "Movies" in WMC.

Every 3 or 4 months I grab the disc images off the net, add a "Disc #" to the image, save as a JPG and drop it into the respective folder. Don't care/need the rest of the meta data.
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Of course I want to strip the menus, subtitles, languages, etc out! That shit is annoying as fuck. I don't know Portuguese, French, Chinese or German so why the hell do I need those audio tracks? Directors Commentary? Yeah, I never once have listened to one of those on any DVD I have ever owned. I know Mr. Director, you put a lot of hard work, time and effort to make this production and I appreciate it. Despite this, I don't give a fuck about your personal back story about every scene in the movie. I mean, it's Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure were talking about here, do you really think I'm sober watching this? Lastly, let's not forget how annoying the previews and FBI warnings are at the beginning. At the movie theater is one thing, I want to know about upcoming movies. On my DVD though, kind of annoying to see a preview for a movie that has been out already for 10 years. What about the FBI warnings you ask? Well, I just like sticking it to the man :). To make a long story short (This was a joke btw, if you haven't figured it out yet). MyTV manages everything quite nicely. Yes, you are correct that managing that many individual episodes is difficult. Overall though, totally worth it IMHO, but your results may differ.
 
I rip 1080i MPEG2 streams and encode with x264 to 720p H264 in MKV containers. MKV is the only container that matters anymore. Its so f%&*#( awesome!
 
lifeinchains said:
I don't see how there is anything at all wrong with that. I can't speak for what he does but I suspect it's something similiar to the following. I use MakeMKV to rip each episode and then store them as mkvs in the following tree structure \\server\tv\show\season #\. This preserves the media at the exact same quality level, which I prefer to any sort of compression. I then let Metabrowser do its thing grabbing all the metadata for nice presentation in Mediabrowser on my HTPCs. A much nicer experience than the built in browser in my opinion.

I don't see how this is any more insane than ripping the entire dvd structure for features that I do not care for. If I am going to watch an episode of The Office I want to hit play and have the show start, not launch the disc so I can wait at another menu. I also do not need the extra languages or subtitles, etc. In my opinion that is just a waste of precious storage space on my server that can be better utilized by more media.
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Pretty close actually. DVD's are straight rips with no compression using DVDShrink + AnyDVD directly into a folder on one of my movie drives (TVSERVER\Movies 1\DVD\Movie Title). I (Now) convert the vob's into one dvr-ms file because I don't have to use transcoding bullshit anymore for my xbox's and it's the exact same quality. These files are stored on several hard drives (4 1.5TB drives, Movies 1-3 and TV). I use MyMovies and Media Browser for my movies. MyMovies is the best in my opinion, but having to unlock all the features is bullshit. Media Browser is pretty, but runs like shit on an extender. To save TV, I ripped the episodes using DVD Shrink into individual episodes. After I ripped the episodes, I would convert them to divx using AutoGK and put them in a folder structure setup as "TVSERVER\Saved TV\Show Title\Show Title - E01S01 - Episode Title". MyTV manages everything quite nicely since it does everything automatically for me. Since I pretty much only saved comedies such as Family Guy, Simpsons and South Park, I didn't notice any quality loss using divx. Now that I am "collecting" Burn Notice, House, Dexter, etc, I can notice the quality loss of divx and am converting these to dvr-ms instead.
 
*shrug* to each their own, kinda like a Vi vs Emac "discussion". I would love to hear more about converting the VOB's to a single dvr-ms/wtv file though.
 
drgnfang said:
*shrug* to each their own, kinda like a Vi vs Emac "discussion". I would love to hear more about converting the VOB's to a single dvr-ms/wtv file though.
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Video ReDo is what I have recently started using. As far as I know, dvr-ms is really just an .mpeg2 (or is it .avi? Kinda drunk at this point and can't remember...) container. Yeah you can convert this to another format which offers better compression (Resulting in a smaller file size), but, whether your eyes can see it or not, is technically lower quality. Now don't get me wrong, it's come along way, but when you blow those converted shows up on a 52 inch plasma, things become noticeable to the average geek. Because of this, I started just doing straight DVD rips with no compression using DVD Shrink. Yeah, 9 gigs for some DVD's eats up space, but a 1.5TB drive costs $100 nowadays. That is way cheaper than copying it to a DVD. At first, I just ripped the DVD's to video_ts folders. Mostly because it worked just fine and was quick and easy. Add a couple of xbox's in as extenders, and this started becoming an issue. I was on the green button a couple of weeks ago and stumbled onto a discussion about converting movies and noticed several people were using .wtv and .dvr-ms due to the ease of conversion, native support, and uncompressed quality. Video ReDo was the drug of choice and, since it had a free trial, I gave it a shot. Since then I am a believer. I didn't notice any quality loss and I don't have to dick around with transcoding or converting anymore. Yes, the software costs $50 and dvr-ms eats up space. Like I mentioned before, not a big deal IMHO with how low the cost of disk space is these days. To top it all off, it's so simple I taught the gf how to do it so I'm not the only one who can add to the collection. DVD shrink combined with Video ReDo is the perfect blend of simplicity and quality.

Note: DVD Shrink is pretty useless without Anydvd to break the encryption. That's another $50 or so. If you haven't noticed yet, you can get nickeled and dimed here. Either you throw money at the problems and buy the proper software legit, or you have a lot of spare time and don't mind constantly adjusting your workarounds. Your choice.




http://www.videoredo.com/en/index.htm

It looks cheesy as hell, but it's legit I promise. It took me a few tries to get it down, which is because I noticed that it fucks up combining some vob files, but once you get the hang of it you can crank them out. The forums are pretty useful for figuring out any issues (Like in my case where it thought the first chapter was the entire movie for some).
 
One of these days I'll do a thorough writeup, but for now let me give you step-by-step the process I have found to work 100% of the time on my extender (Xbox 360) and about 80% of the time with rewind and fast forward capability.

Software:
  • AnyDVD - Break the protection. DVD43 is pry the closest equivalent
  • DVD Shrink - Strip and ripper. Note: Uncheck Split VOB files into 1GB size chunks (recommended)., we WANT a single VOB for the feature.
  • VideoRedo - Cleaner. Have not found an equivalent as easy as this one, sorry no freebie and trial is super short so good luck getting your library ripped before the period is over.
  • DVRMSToolbox - Final WTV conversion. You'll need to make a custom profile: Tools > Settings > New Profile
    Create a new profile, I have the description "_Convert to WTV" so it's at the top of the list and I don't have to look for it.
    Add > Durrant.Plugins.FWThrottle > OK
    Add > Durrant.Plugins.RunExternal >
    Code: 
    Process: todvrms.exe
ArguementsContext:"%InputFile%" "%InputFile%" -wtv 
ContinueOnFail: Checked
    > OK
    Note: Yes, "InputFile" is twice cause I don't need to change the filename, just the extension and since I'm going from MPG to WTV, the app is smart enough to change it for me. This allows me to leave Output File blank when Queuing; If you want to Run and see the magic then you will need to fill in Output File even tho it's not being used - ultra-small program bug, no biggie.
Steps:
  1. Insert DVD and let AnyDVD perform its magic. I have Autoplay set to load in Shrink. Here's a howto guide.
  2. Reauthor the DVD by selecting only the feature (look for the largest file on the DVD)
  3. On the compression settings tab for the selected feature, I select: "No Compression" and the best audio track (usually AC3 5.1, I've only had a few DTS to cross my path and hadn't bothered with it and still stuck with what I knew worked). You can shrink the movies down if you want to, but I wanted to preserve the DVD to its best quality possible.
  4. Backup! I have two folders: \Movies and \Movie Rips; therefore, I shrink to \Movie Rips\[titlename]
  5. Once the movie is finished, I fire up VideoRedo selecting Tools > Quickstream fix...
  6. Select the feature VOB from the rip and output it with MPG extension. I follow this naming convention: \Movie Rips\[titlename]\[titlename].mpg This will correct any issues with the rip occasionally caused by the [now missing] protection.

    You may stop here. The movie will play in WMC and extenders along with pretty much anything else that plays standard MPG files; unfortunately, having the rew/ff is still pretty much non-existent. However, if you want to take the jump to WTV and increase your success with the coveted rewind/fast forward, continue on.
    .
  7. Fire up DVRMStoMPEGGUI and select the profile "_Convert to WTV" and if you don't have that profile then you didn't created it as indicated above.
  8. Enjoy your WTV goodness. You may ditch all the files of the rip and keep just the WTV in the folder. (I move the folder to the catalog \Movies) I recommend only keeping a single playable [in WMC] file in the directory so it doesn't show up duplicates, etc.. in your Library especially if you use My Movies which I do.

My Library is breaching the 600 mark filling 3TB (4x1tb RAID 5). I have a handful of BD rips to MKV, but stopped there cause I'm not sure what I want to do and while my XBox will attempt to play MKV, it pukes out in buffering madness cause the network is streaming a 25gig file - not gonna happen.

NOW, before you go out and start ripping the crap out of your vids to WTV I have to step on my soap box and make known the crap I'm dealing with now.

I feel like I'm experiencing early adopter blues with WTV.

WMC sucks... period! Yeah, it's purdy and slick and all that for HTPC - but don't ever actually "build" a library with like more than a dozen movies and expect sifting through it to be a breeze or for that matter, even LOAD the catalog. Sometimes, WMC will just sit there looking for movies and never bother to load, so I have to cancel [on the host] or return to dashboard [xbox] and restart. As for the Xbox, I'll get file errors multiple times on occasions with the movie not even starting; however, if I keep trying it will eventually play. WTH is that?? The interface is slick, I just wished it was reliable. My tank is robust enough to handle the load, quad-core amd with 8gigs of ram.

I will say MyMovies is a must and, let me say, just pay the $40 to get enough points to unlock pretty much everything you'll ever need, it's worth every single penny!!!!!!!! Remember, the model is based on point level, not points you spend, so when you reach 1000 you can have the background fanart and online collections. DVD transcoding is at 1250 point level, which I have; but I haven't messed any further with this cause my Transcode360 days gave me nightmares after giving up on it, I'll table that for later.

The last 50 movie rips, I sacrificed the rew/ff and kept them in MPG and awaiting WD Live TV I purchased - going to try that and see if the interface is slick enough to retire using the 360 as an extender. I've been playing around with MediaPortal and XBMC. I can get MPGs to play in XBMC just fine, but no live TV. I can get live TV in MediaPortal, but I only get audio when playing MPGs... messed up.

In the end, I'll pry give up and stick with WTV all the way in hopes that WD puts out an update to play WTV then I'll put it in the kids room so they can have access to the movie library and I'll stick with the MediaTank/XBox360 pairing.
 
Since this thread is all about opinions...

bLiTzJoN said:
WMC sucks... period! Yeah, it's purdy and slick and all that for HTPC - but don't ever actually "build" a library with like more than a dozen movies and expect sifting through it to be a breeze or for that matter, even LOAD the catalog.
Click to expand...

I have about 300+ 1080p BD rips, all with complete images and XML metadata aggregated by metabrowser and my CoreDuo machine can sort through them fine with 7MC + MediaBrowser... You're doing something wrong.

I will say MyMovies is a must and, let me say, just pay the $40 to get enough points to unlock pretty much everything you'll ever need, it's worth every single penny!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Despise that software.. Completely useless IMO. Horrible UI.

7MC + MediaBrowser + metabrowser is MUCH easier to use and looks a hell of a lot better.
 
criccio said:
Since this thread is all about opinions...



I have about 300+ 1080p BD rips, all with complete images and XML metadata aggregated by metabrowser and my CoreDuo machine can sort through them fine with 7MC + MediaBrowser... You're doing something wrong.



Despise that software.. Completely useless IMO. Horrible UI.

7MC + MediaBrowser + metabrowser is MUCH easier to use and looks a hell of a lot better.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. His diatribe only makes sense if your stupid enough to use a crappy extender (not saying the 360 is a crappy extender, I'm saying all extenders are crappy) otherwise there is no reason to use WTV for DVDs. It's actually a godawful idea.
 
I've actually been going back through and re-ripping my movies and TV shows. I've decided that space wasn't an issue, as I was encoding into mp4 format. Now, I'm ripping my TV shows, then using MakeMKV to make individual episodes minus the menus and languages/audio I don't need.

It's the easiest for me, and works great with MediaBrowser/MetaBrowser, and depending on how MyMovies comes this summer with their TV show stuff, it should work for them.
 
Hey, I'm definitely open to criticism and alternatives. I'm, by far, no expert in this field by any means. Someone on this thread asked about converting to WTV, so I shared an almost foolproof method of getting a working WTV from a DVD that will play on an extender that I put together after weeks of research almost a year ago.

At the time I put together the system it seemed like it would be the simplest solution to put together, and found out very quickly its shortcomings. Since I have family members using it, I would say it's been the easiest for them when it works. The user experience isn't that great with the MyMovies client when managing the collection but it gets it done; however, I am pleased with responsiveness of the WMC addin compared to MediaBrowser and there are enough settings to get the look I want. I played with MediaBrowser before MyMovies when I was trying to get Transcode360 to work on my [then] VMC media tank, but when I upgraded with Win7 I chose MyMovies over MediaBrowser and ditched my transcoding efforts altogether and decided to pick a known working format to work on my "crappy" extender with all the bells and whistles - thus WTV.

Mistake? Perhaps. Please pursuade me to an alternative format that preserves the quality of the original & enables rew/ff on my 360. As a bonus, will also work on a WD TV Live (arriving this week).
 
I guess what it comes down to is extenders of any kind are worthless. Soley because of the hoops you have to jump through just to make media compatible with them. 1080p capable HTPC's are cheap and easy to build and have ZERO limitations.
 
And that is what I'm discovering. The WD TV Live supports the following:
Video - AVI (Xvid, AVC, MPEG1/2/4), MPG/MPEG, VOB, MKV (h.264, x.264, AVC, MPEG1/2/4, VC-1), TS/TP/M2T (MPEG1/2/4, AVC, VC-1), MP4/MOV (MPEG4, h.264), M2TS, WMV9

So if you have a choice and still play in 7MC on the host (with scanning) would you go with MKV or leave them in MPG (some movies don't scan even on the host), or...? Also, has anyone converted from WTV to .... and with what?

I looked on WD's forums to see if they plan on supporting WTV (would certainly save me from having to painstakingly convert 3 terabytes of movies). And it would appear there is hope based on pre-release firmware release notes: Added Play To support for Microsoft Window 7.

We shall see. Tracking says in transit.
 
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