You Wont Believe This

Guys, you know im poking fun at the AC crowd. I think its funny how some folks get almost "emotional" when they hear someone put down AC...lol and topcat, dont call me a dumbass bro, its all in good fun man!
 
he called you a "dumbass bro"? Man, you guys musta bin close. :D

Im sure everything is fine now. We can now get on topic once more :)

So, is your neigbor part of this forum?
 
Bbq said:
I meant, AC is no more expensive than Innovatek, or any manufacturer, for that matter. At least, not a particualrly huge amount as mentioned by the big bore people. It seems that they make it seem like OMFG CUPLEX XT $95208702837408230847012837590 2503 and OMFG DD TDX $5. It doesnt' work that way.

And Innovatek is more expensive than AC. The block is 20 more, the retention is 30. Not to mention thats just hte blocks.
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On a thread a while ago I listed a comparisson of a very basic loop using both Innova and Aqua... to be honest I was shocked. On even the most common (CPU/GPU/Res/Pump - no NB or fan controller) loop the Innovatek build was about $60 more expensive.

The Aqua parts look better but I prefer the Innova 8x10 hoses... so I built a bastard of both of them.
 
The Cuplex XT sells for about a $100 and the Swiftech Storm goes for about $85. Both have similar expense involved in them due to lots of machining. I would say that AC pricing is right in there when you figure in shipping from Germany and import duties.
 
madmat said:
How do you figure that Innovatek is big-bore? Most Innovatek kits I've ever looked at either used 8mm I.D. or 10mm I.D. tubing. If any of it was pushing 13mm tubing it was user done.

That's hardly "big bore" that's maybe midi bore or medium-large bore but, hell, the option for running that same sized tubing is there with A-C gear so does that make A-C gear big-bore too now?
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The new AC big-bore :D If they ever decide to make them with G 1/4 threads Swiftech can kiss their biz goodbye.

6mm or 1/4" = small bore

8mm or 5/16" = medium bore

10mm or 3/8" = medium large bore

11mm or 7/16" = large bore

12mm or 1/2" = larger bore

5/8" = Liars size ;)
 
madmat said:
How do you figure that Innovatek is big-bore? Most Innovatek kits I've ever looked at either used 8mm I.D. or 10mm I.D. tubing. If any of it was pushing 13mm tubing it was user done.

That's hardly "big bore" that's maybe midi bore or medium-large bore but, hell, the option for running that same sized tubing is there with A-C gear so does that make A-C gear big-bore too now?
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You could look at it as Inno having G1/4 threads while AC uses G1/8 threads for their fittings.
 
Entire systems compared!

AC:

Cuplex Pro: $69
Twinplex Pro: $43
9 feet Mazzer: $9
Airplex 120: $55
Aquatube: $55
Aquatube mounting: $15
Eheim 1250: $69 (marinedepot)

Total for AC: $315

Dangerden

TDX: $52
Maze 4: $44
BIX: $48
Cylindrical res: $25
Tygon 1/2": $21.15 /9 feet
Eheim 1250: $69

Total for DD: $259.15


Innovatek

XXflow block: $69, on sale from 79
Single 120mm radiator: $82
Graph-o-matic: $15, down from 25
1/4" Tygon: $15 / 9feet
Eheim 1250: $69
Fass-o-matic: $79

Total for Innovatek: $349

Of course, minus coolant, clamps, fittings, etc.
 
Bbq said:
I meant, AC is no more expensive than Innovatek, or any manufacturer, for that matter. At least, not a particualrly huge amount as mentioned by the big bore people. It seems that they make it seem like OMFG CUPLEX XT $95208702837408230847012837590 2503 and OMFG DD TDX $5. It doesnt' work that way.

And Innovatek is more expensive than AC. The block is 20 more, the retention is 30. Not to mention thats just hte blocks.
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That still doesn't alter the fact that Innovatek is not a big bore setup which is the whole thing I was pointing out. To anyone that uses large tubing Innovatek is just another over-priced small tube import which you're verifying right here.

I priced out an A-C setup in another thread that was a CPU only setup and it came to anywhere from $320 to $370 depending upon block and res used. You can purchase an American CPU only watercooling rig for $200-$250 depending upon several things (pump, block, rad, res or T-line, etc...) so at a base of $70 difference on the A-Cs cheapest versus the most expensive American gear to $120 on the most expensive A-C config to $170 between the least expensive quality American rig and the most expensive A-C setup, this hardly denotes a "marginal" increase in price...at $120-$170 that's the price of a full SLI waterblock kit AND a quart of MCT-5 (at $170) and still having some change left over.
 
Wow....that was a mouth full. ;)

How about comparing apples to apples? Your comparing crappy looking plastic or injection molded components with precision machined components. If you don't care about the quality or looks then get the cheap shit. If you value craftsmanship and stuff that looks good then pay more. AC gear is definitely more expensive than American (err...Chinese?) watercooling gear because of the worthlessness of the dollar and shipping expenses in addition to the aforementioned issues.

BTW, to the OP I would suggest you OC the piss out of your rig and have the air boy back for some more salsa. Watch him fart when his air cooling smokes your processor. :D
 
I guess that all depends on your definition of "crappy looking" personally I think the DD blocks are pretty nice looking along with the current generation of D-Tek blocks. Clear plexi tops on american blocks generally look no different than the clear Plexi tops on A-C blocks or do you consider those blocks to look like crap as well?

Personally I think 10 feet of tubing (irregardless of size) running around inside a PC looking like some kind of plumbers nightmare is crappy looking.

As to comparing "apples to apples" are you trying to say that the A-C gear is somehow inferior? I'm comparing a CPU only WC loop by A-C to a CPU only WC loop by American makers (plural, not just one maker) that's not pegging it down to DD or Swiftech or D-Tek, each one of the latter three can supply a loop for around the prices I listed: $200-$250. Just because A-C fails to meet the same pricing doesn't mean I'm comparing apples to oranges.

The systems I spec'ed all feature a block, a res or fillport, a dual 120mm rad and a 12v pump plus 10ft of tubing. I really can't get more "apples to apples" than that without just comparing imported gear to imported gear. Hell, as to the whole tubing hoopla even things up by equiping both loops with 3/8" (or 10mm) tubing so that the only real difference is the MFG country of origin.
 
He could have gotten false readings if the temp probe happens to be located in the downwind of an air cooler. Some temp probe are not directly under the cpu. Stagent air would actually make a watercooling system in this case seem hotter.
 
I'm trying to get rid of my brand new Storm block so I can play with more air cooling options

XP-90 is lame, I have one of the AMD X2 coolers on the way. Ninja will likely be next.

someone buy my freaking Storm dammit!
 
TheToE! said:
Guys, you know im poking fun at the AC crowd. I think its funny how some folks get almost "emotional" when they hear someone put down AC...lol and topcat, dont call me a dumbass bro, its all in good fun man!
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fair enough, it does get a bit old with the trolling i've seen between both hi-flow/low-flow camps. I'm not emotional about AC, although I'll be using their stuff. I'd rather gone MITS, simply cuase i don't like plexitops on WB. but it just gets irritating that we can't have a thread that doesn't get trolled with lame comments. That's really what i was railing against ;)
 
topcat989 said:
fair enough, it does get a bit old with the trolling i've seen between both hi-flow/low-flow camps. I'm not emotional about AC, although I'll be using their stuff. I'd rather gone MITS, simply cuase i don't like plexitops on WB. but it just gets irritating that we can't have a thread that doesn't get trolled with lame comments. That's really what i was railing against ;)
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I am selling all of my AC gear if you have any intrest?
 
Try not to sell outside of FS/FT.

how much, and what do you have?
 
What cpu where you running? I think that a modern single core 90nm cpu doesnt require water cooling to get low temps. Now, If you tested my 130nm clawhammer @ 1.85 volts @ 2.77, there should be a HUGE difference betweeen water and air, if the air would even run it.

i might also be interested in some ac gear....
 
True high end AIR can give GREAT results . . . when everything is stock. If you stuck with water and OCed those puppies you would definitely see that with water it would allow you to OC higher and keep your temps cooler on load (while OCed).
 
topcat989 said:
but it just gets irritating that we can't have a thread that doesn't get trolled with lame comments.
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This is true, there is enough flaming going on without my instigation, so.. sorry bout that. I just could'nt resist!!!
 
Just like it's iritating to not be able to discus any other brand W/C gear without being slammed with A-C ads. Honestly I'm just pointing out that to claim that A-C gear is no more expensive as other brands is just straight up incorrect, it might be no more expensive than one or two other brands but it is more expensive than quality continental brands. I'm not slamming the brand nor am I making fun of who does what with what sized tubing, you're free to use whatever makes you happy. I'm just tired of the A-C fans that call people that don't follow their ideology "idiotic".
 
Top Nurse said:
Wow....that was a mouth full. ;)

How about comparing apples to apples? Your comparing crappy looking plastic or injection molded components with precision machined components. If you don't care about the quality or looks then get the cheap shit. If you value craftsmanship and stuff that looks good then pay more. AC gear is definitely more expensive than American (err...Chinese?) watercooling gear because of the worthlessness of the dollar and shipping expenses in addition to the aforementioned issues.
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So if I think an orange looks better than an apple, and you like the look of an apple....does that make the orange inferior? Both are sweet fruits which will nourish your body, who really cares which one looks better?

Arguing looks and trying to use that as comparing "apples to oranges" is pretty pointless IMO. Also, please dont typecast all American watercooling companies as Swiftech. Dtek and DD are both quality companies and neither use injection molded plastic and both have very good quality control. If there was a guy in germany who made crappy watercooling gear (there probably is somewhere) you would scoff at anyone who tried to typecast AC under the same boat.
 
Dtek and DD are both quality companies and neither use injection molded plastic
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dsc019224je.jpg


:eek: what a suprise! Injection molded! :eek:
 
well I like pears and those injections molded. Looks good to me.
 
Bbq said:
dsc019224je.jpg


:eek: what a suprise! Injection molded! :eek:
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I don't think he was refering to the barbs (which can be swapped out by the end user) but about the actual parts of the blocks such as the top and/or accelerator nozzles.
 
madmat said:
I'm just tired of the A-C fans that call people that don't follow their ideology "idiotic".
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Now I wonder how that got started, heh? It sure as hell wasn't AC users. :rolleyes:
 
As a newcomer to the world of watercooling, I feel my point of view might be of interest to some, though all of you are more than welcome to dismiss it as mere naivete. It would appear to me that A-C makes cool looking stuff that's very 'spensive. But I have to say, that beyond the 'gee whiz, it'd be sweet to watercool all that shit' factor, there isn't much pragmatism in watercooling hard drives and memory modules and the like -- Especially if they add unwelcome restrictions to the flow of water throughout the system. Furthermore, the insistence on using 1/4" hoses, even though the laws of physics clearly correlate flow and heat dissipation, betrays a sense of 'form over function' on the part of AC, which is fine. But this doesn't jibe with the original ideology: watercool everything for the maximum overclock. So is it pretty? Yes it is. Is it sweet? Hellz yea. Practical/effective? Not so much...

Flame on.
 
sonnybobiche said:
But this doesn't jibe with the original ideology: watercool everything for the maximum overclock. So is it pretty? Yes it is. Is it sweet? Hellz yea.
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I thought the "original ideology" was "Freak'n sweet" and to keep things cool with minimal noise or atleast thats what first got me interested in watercooling.
Practical/effective? Not so much...
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And you think WCing really is? Then again I believe Intel has proven that WC as "necessary." ;)
 
Quote from Modsquad2 = "Let's face it, we are watercooling to say we are watercooling and Aqua Computer is the best looking stuff on the planet. It's your call..." :cool:
 
Ominous Gamer said:
You need a grammar class then. Your lack of said grammar made your post refer to WC as saving money, as another post also pointed out.
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That is "...resulted in your post refering to...," a little grammar help.
 
BarneyGumble said:
That is "...resulted in your post refering to...," a little grammar help.
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Actually the post is fine, his action created a product; "made" is appropriate.

 
Top Nurse said:
Quote from Modsquad2 = "Let's face it, we are watercooling to say we are watercooling and Aqua Computer is the best looking stuff on the planet. It's your call..." :cool:
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Thats all very subjective. Personally I was a bit dissapointed in the looks of the Cuplex XT in person. It looked a lot better in pictures. Sitting side by side with a TDX, I sort of prefer the TDX to the Cuplex XT.

AC has some great photographers....I'll give them that much...that or good at photochop.
 
WOW another interesting thread devolving into a pro-ac/anti-ac pointless mudslinging fest. Is it me or is the watercooling forums starting to look like the video card forums.
 
To think it all started with this. :rolleyes:
BellaCroix said:
Not using AC gear. :D
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Erasmus354 said:
understatement of the year ;)
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All you have to do around here is mention watercooling and you usually get the anti-ac crap from the same people long before TN or any other pro ac person shows up. :rolleyes:
 
madmat said:
I don't think he was refering to the barbs (which can be swapped out by the end user) but about the actual parts of the blocks such as the top and/or accelerator nozzles.
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I know. The entire top, is injection molded Delrin. the barbs are PVC, IIRC, and I have them swapped out for brand new brass ones.
 
Top Nurse said:
Now I wonder how that got started, heh? It sure as hell wasn't AC users. :rolleyes:
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Well it sure as hell wasn't me either! As a matter of fact I've NEVER had any disparaging CRAP in my sig about anything nor anyone, can you say that?? Hell no.
 
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