You know.... I thought I wanted a 3080. But. If AMD comes through with stock...

bigbluefe

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The problem with that is that 90% of the economy is "scalping"; buying something you have a price advantage on, marking it up and reselling it.

It'd be tough to legally define, much less enforce laws against this kind of behavior. The difference between supply and demand drives price. It is the way of the world.

Like I said, scalping tickets is already illegal in a lot of states. If Amazon bought up every other store's inventory of items and then artificially inflated the prices of those goods on Amazon.com, it'd take all of 2 milliseconds for governments to go after them. This is the same thing. And given the limited distribution channels (Ebay, Craigslist), I think it'd actually be pretty easy to enforce.
 

zandor

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Worried about Linux drivers?? This is the one place AMD is leaps and bounds better than nvidia. Their windows drivers are typically not as good, but their Linux stuff is solid, much better than nvidia. If you run Linux AMD is a no brainier honestly. Heck, Intel drivers are much better than nvidia as well in Linux. If I could stand Linux as a desktop I would only run AMD (unless you needed a specific feature).
Are you talking the open source NVidia drivers or the proprietary ones NV releases? I've always just run the proprietary ones with NV cards. Never had a good experience with the open source NV drivers and a newer card. The proprietary NV Linux drivers seem to work about as well as the Windows ones for what I do. If you insist on keeping your machine pure open source AMD or Intel integrated is the way to go.

I dual boot and pretty much just use Linux on my desktop for programming. I prefer it for that, particularly for Java development. For a general purpose desktop I prefer Windows or MacOS.
 

Gideon

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Like I said, scalping tickets is already illegal in a lot of states. If Amazon bought up every other store's inventory of items and then artificially inflated the prices of those goods on Amazon.com, it'd take all of 2 milliseconds for governments to go after them. This is the same thing. And given the limited distribution channels (Ebay, Craigslist), I think it'd actually be pretty easy to enforce.
Scalping concert tickets and their like are only illegal because of Ticketmaster greased some politicians pockets, otherwise this is capitalism, if you can resell it for more then good for you.
 

Ready4Dis

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Are you talking the open source NVidia drivers or the proprietary ones NV releases? I've always just run the proprietary ones with NV cards. Never had a good experience with the open source NV drivers and a newer card. The proprietary NV Linux drivers seem to work about as well as the Windows ones for what I do. If you insist on keeping your machine pure open source AMD or Intel integrated is the way to go.

I dual boot and pretty much just use Linux on my desktop for programming. I prefer it for that, particularly for Java development. For a general purpose desktop I prefer Windows or MacOS.
Yes, open source mostly, but even their closed source stuff isn't as good in Linux.
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/use-amd-nvidia-gpus-linux/amp/
Even their proprietary stuff doesn't work properly with things.
"AMD and Intel graphics both work with Wayland using open source and proprietary drivers. Nvidia is a different story."
"As Nvidia's proprietary driver uses a different API (EGLStreams), things are different. Many compositors don't support for this, the GNOME desktop being the major exception.". So if you happen to use gnome/wayland... I guess Nvidia is ok,.or you don't care for tesselation in games as that's still broken. Or if you don't want to use proprietary drivers (aka, use open source) then Nvidia is horrible as well. I just don't see compelling reasons for Nvidia on Linux unless you need something specific (like some cuda stuff). Anyways, this is getting way off topic, just wanted to clarify that there are reasons for my statements. On windows, I give Nvidia the thumbs up, but on Linux it's not so rosey.
 

TwistedMetalGear

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I don't understand the urgency to get a new card so quickly. Is the card you currently have preventing you from playing games? I'm waiting for a 3080 myself and when it comes in stock then I'll get it. I just don't understand the extreme urgency to get these new cards.
HDMI 2.1. Can't take full advantage of these new displays (like the CX48) without it.
 

bl4d3runn3r

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I still rock my 1080ti... I guess that was the best purchase I've ever made. I was even able to get one during the mining craze in 2017 for MSRP. But to be honest, I finally want something new, not because the 1080ti is too slow, but it's just time.
I also was a little hyped about the 3080, but I wasn't able to get one and I gave up on it after 2 weeks.
Yesterday I found a folder with all my PC hardware receipts and I even found the one of my first PC ever, which was a K6 233 with an ATI 3D charger, I think that was the closest I was to an all AMD system ever.

I will try to get a RX6800XT or RX6800, I actually don't care anymore if it is the non XT. I just want a new GPU to play around with. I will try to get one at Microcenter, but I might fail, because I won't camp there, will just go there two hours before they open.
 

Krenum

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Don't worry OP, they will be out of stock faster than you can say "Checkout". All the bots are going to buy them for eth mining.

But I agree. Good luck!
 

vjhawk

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I'm also strongly considering going with a 6800XT and I'm in a somewhat unique predicament. I sold my launch-day 3080 (to a co-worker and at cost) since I was in the middle of a move and crunch-time at work i.e. no time to play. I have another 3080 preorder that will be arriving literally, it looks on or around Nov 18.

All things considered, 6800XT and 3080 looks like they will be neck and neck in rasterization. And while feature support will be better on 3080 e.g. RT, DLSS while 6800XT will have more VRAM -- neither points really make a difference for my use. Should I kill my 3080 preorder and try for a 6800XT? Is there some golden feature/spec on the 6800XT that makes it better than the 3080? What to do, what to do?
A card in the hand is better than one in the bush. Make sure you have a 6800XT in hand before you cancel your other order.

Fair disclosure, I’ve only used Nvidia products for the past 10 years because they’ve simply been faster a d worry free in terms of driver support. I’m open to switching to Team Red this go round because nvidia botched product availability.

however if 3080s. Suddenly show up in stock mid November I’ll probably order both and just keep the card that actually arrives. Getting a hold of new hardware is just too luck based to risk committing to a “brand” loyalty. The available product is the best product when performance is roughly equal while stock is extremely low.

Im also betting that Nvidia will “suddenly find” 3000 series stock on or around when the 6000 series launches! 😜
 

harmattan

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Well, it does look like my 3080 preorder will ship on or around the 18th, so I'll likely hold on to that and go for a 6800XT.

As for brand loyalty, I've graduated so far past that ping ponging back and forth over the past 25 years that the idea is comical. I've had both green and red cards, even very recently, that have been absolute champs or absolute duds. There have been driver issues on both sides; there have been "misstated" specs and support on both sides (more nV here than AMD).

And yes, I also think that 3000-series stock will turn up like a miracle next week. They've been no doubt stockpiling some chips to flood the channel next week.
 

noko

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I don't understand brand loyalty, just buy both :). Do enthusiast only have one computer? Lol when my X370 ASUS C6H shit itself, I still had four other working computers, took the 3900x out and upgraded one of my other computers, also the 5700 XT, nothing goes to waste. Anyways I've found having both give the most flexibility in playing any game, plus Nvidia for a long period of time was just way better in VR, AMD has definitely improved there.
 
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Here's the thing.

Launch day will probably play out similarly and go out of stock as there is the normal AMD demand + Nvidia buyers just wanting a new card. The real test will be how the restock in the coming weeks afterwards is handled. 2 months later 3080 is basically non-existent. Hopefully regular restocks of good number of cards will happen with RX 6000.

Re: Brand loyalty. It's stupid. Every company wants to just take your money. Don't be loyal to them. Also don't let an experience from 15 years ago reflect on the present state unless you have good reason to (i.e. data).
 

M Diddy

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People seriously overestimate the demand vs supply for both Nvidia and AMD. You take away the scalpers (that are literally buying these things at 50-100 a pop to jack up and sell), I believe you would have more than enough stock to go around for the people who actually want them.

If you want to see just how many of these things are bought up by scalpers, just do a quick dive on Twitter for the PS5. I found dozens of tweets from aholes on there showing how they each bought 40-50 units. They started doing it with sneakers and have moved on to other things, like PC parts. The supply issue, I believe is overblown.

And please don't state the supply/demand BS that defends scalpers. Yes, I understand if the consumers didn't pay the inflated prices for the items these guys buy, we wouldn't have this problem. Using a bot to buy up a ton of IP that other companies spend time and money to make and FORCING a supply shortage, though, just so they can turn around and sell those items to consumers at inflated prices is NOT the supply/demand curve. It's market manipulation. It's an exploitation of the holes in the system, that, in certain circumstances is already illegal. Quite a few people were arrested when the lockdowns started for doing it with personal hygiene items like TP and hand sanitizer. Saying it's illegal for one thing and not others is semantics. In the end, though, until the retailers decide to do something about it that actually works, it's going to be a fact of life going forward.
 

Denpepe

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People seriously overestimate the demand vs supply for both Nvidia and AMD. You take away the scalpers (that are literally buying these things at 50-100 a pop to jack up and sell), I believe you would have more than enough stock to go around for the people who actually want them.

If you want to see just how many of these things are bought up by scalpers, just do a quick dive on Twitter for the PS5. I found dozens of tweets from aholes on there showing how they each bought 40-50 units. They started doing it with sneakers and have moved on to other things, like PC parts. The supply issue, I believe is overblown.

Right, guess again https://www.proshop.de/RTX-30series-overview there are no cards relative to demand
 

sphinx99

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Right, guess again https://www.proshop.de/RTX-30series-overview there are no cards relative to demand
Fascinating data. That said, technically speaking it could be possible that there is indeed sufficient supply and it's just not going to the right places. My local HW chain (SF Bay Area - heart of silicon valley - you'd imagine we'd be able to get our hands on this hardware) has only received ~100 RTX 3xxx cards to date, so if two or three scalpers alone can match through online bot orders the same quantities that a B&M chain can receive, that suggests a distribution problem.

That being said, what's surprising about the above link are the relatively healthy number of RTX 3090 cards. Interestingly, the local chain here also got several dozen 3090s and I could walk into a store tomorrow and buy one. This makes me think it's the 3080 specifically that is having a serious supply issue of some kind.

In any case, I'm in the same boat as the OP. I purchased a CX48 yesterday and am absolutely loving it, and wish I had a HDMI 2.1 card to match it with. At this point I will purchase the first performance card (in the RTX 3080 price range) that becomes available. If that is an AMD card, so be it and it will be my first GPU from the company since my beloved and dearly departed Radeon 9700 Pro :)
 

LukeTbk

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That being said, what's surprising about the above link are the relatively healthy number of RTX 3090 cards. Interestingly, the local chain here also got several dozen 3090s and I could walk into a store tomorrow and buy one. This makes me think it's the 3080 specifically that is having a serious supply issue of some kind.
The difference in demand for the 3090 is a completely different tier, making it much easier

In that link the amount of card received
3070: 946
3080: 901
3090: 358

It is much healthier relative to demand even if there is 3 time less of them, (if you can sell 358 rtx 3090 that probably mean that you could have easily sold over 10x of the other models if you had them)
 

M Diddy

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Messages
141
Right, guess again https://www.proshop.de/RTX-30series-overview there are no cards relative to demand
Again, I'm not saying there's an overflow of 3080's available. That is pretty clear. I think a lot of this may be to to Green wanting to see what Red was going to roll out. Now that they see the 6800XT might be a better card at a cheaper price, N might have moved on to other priorities in order to complete.

What I am saying, though, is that if you take away the scalpers and the amount they purchased, the amount you see in demand would greatly drop and you wouldn't have near the amount of people waiting to get one. It's fairly simple to see. Just to Ebay/Marketplace, etc, and look at the amount of 3080's that are sitting on there at inflated prices. There's hundreds, and, in reality, probably a few thousand. If those cards got in the hands of people that wanted them, at retail prices, the "shortage" would be a lot less. Almost non-exisitant.
 

M Diddy

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Fascinating data. That said, technically speaking it could be possible that there is indeed sufficient supply and it's just not going to the right places. My local HW chain (SF Bay Area - heart of silicon valley - you'd imagine we'd be able to get our hands on this hardware) has only received ~100 RTX 3xxx cards to date, so if two or three scalpers alone can match through online bot orders the same quantities that a B&M chain can receive, that suggests a distribution problem.

That being said, what's surprising about the above link are the relatively healthy number of RTX 3090 cards. Interestingly, the local chain here also got several dozen 3090s and I could walk into a store tomorrow and buy one. This makes me think it's the 3080 specifically that is having a serious supply issue of some kind.

In any case, I'm in the same boat as the OP. I purchased a CX48 yesterday and am absolutely loving it, and wish I had a HDMI 2.1 card to match it with. At this point I will purchase the first performance card (in the RTX 3080 price range) that becomes available. If that is an AMD card, so be it and it will be my first GPU from the company since my beloved and dearly departed Radeon 9700 Pro :)

The 9800 Pro was my first. Loved that thing! It pretty much has kept me on board with Team Red. I've jumped shipped to N, once or twice, but have come back to AMD each time. Still in the air about which way to go this time as I'm due.
 

bigbluefe

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The reality is that Nvidia still has stronger ray tracing performance, they're going to get a 5% performance boost from something similar to smart memory access (only it will be on Intel AND AMD), you get DLSS and probably more consistently better driver quality, and G-Sync is still a superior solution due to variable overdrive. You can plainly see this shit in MAME. Get two monitors that use the same panel (one G-Sync module and one FreeSync). The FreeSync one will have more ghosting in games that run at weird refresh rates below max. AMD might be a better value (the 3090 is absurdly expensive), but Nvidia is still best of the best in terms of actual quality.

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-...gy-to-amd-smart-access-memory-for-ampere-gpus
 

M Diddy

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The reality is that Nvidia still has stronger ray tracing performance, they're going to get a 5% performance boost from something similar to smart memory access (only it will be on Intel AND AMD), you get DLSS and probably more consistently better driver quality, and G-Sync is still a superior solution due to variable overdrive. You can plainly see this shit in MAME. Get two monitors that use the same panel (one G-Sync module and one FreeSync). The FreeSync one will have more ghosting in games that run at weird refresh rates below max. AMD might be a better value (the 3090 is absurdly expensive), but Nvidia is still best of the best in terms of actual quality.

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-...gy-to-amd-smart-access-memory-for-ampere-gpus
I was set on a 6800 XT until I saw the tweet from Steve about SAM for Nvidia. Given I just built my 10900K build, it swayed me back to trying to pick up a 3080. AMD's claim that they can only achieve SAM with an AMD CPU, board and GPU seemed fishy to me. From a technical standpoint, there doesn't seem to be any reason it couldn't be done with an Intel proc as well.
 

Saki630

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I would take an AMD over Nvidia at this point if it means getting a card for a deal. Stock might not be able to sustain an MSRP tag for another 3-6 months.
 

MavericK

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I honestly would not expect AMD's launch to be any better. Zen 3 was marginally better but still pretty pathetic supply-wise, and resupply is not happening nearly fast enough.
 

sphinx99

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I honestly would not expect AMD's launch to be any better. Zen 3 was marginally better but still pretty pathetic supply-wise, and resupply is not happening nearly fast enough.
I generally agree (practicality) but FrgMstr on this forum tore me a new one with his/her claim (on the basis of "industry know-how") that it would be different from what we saw with nVidia's launch. Something about AMD outselling nVidia in some given time window despite the latter's head start. While I'm skeptical, I'm 100% hopeful he/she is right and the commonality with Sony/Microsoft does lend some credence to the notion. In any case, I'm now penning these words with a display that won't show its best until I have a HDMI 2.1 GPU so I'm putting my wallet down now--first to get a GPU to local B&M gets my money.
 

sethk

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There’s enough pent up demand that I think it will take a little while until the highest demand skus (probably 3080 and 6800xt) are readily in stock whenever you look. Logic dictates that the top skus will reach ready availability first, if production isn’t halted or severely throttled (3090 / 6900xt). Either that or the closer to midrange skus like the 3700 if demand is softer and supply is less constrained.
 

StaticShoes

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I guess destiny decided I don't need any new hardware as these releases have happened on days when I've been scheduled long hours. Even if rumors are true, and AMD has more stock for release than nvidia, I doubt it will be around for the 8+ hours after launch until I get home. Guess I get to watch for funny posts like the fake accounts driving ebay nvidia cards to tens of thousands. ☮️
 

kamikazi

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I generally agree (practicality) but FrgMstr on this forum tore me a new one with his/her claim (on the basis of "industry know-how") that it would be different from what we saw with nVidia's launch. Something about AMD outselling nVidia in some given time window despite the latter's head start. While I'm skeptical, I'm 100% hopeful he/she is right and the commonality with Sony/Microsoft does lend some credence to the notion. In any case, I'm now penning these words with a display that won't show its best until I have a HDMI 2.1 GPU so I'm putting my wallet down now--first to get a GPU to local B&M gets my money.
You know that FrgMstr is Kyle right? He IS HardOCP.
 

MavericK

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I generally agree (practicality) but FrgMstr on this forum tore me a new one with his/her claim (on the basis of "industry know-how") that it would be different from what we saw with nVidia's launch. Something about AMD outselling nVidia in some given time window despite the latter's head start. While I'm skeptical, I'm 100% hopeful he/she is right and the commonality with Sony/Microsoft does lend some credence to the notion. In any case, I'm now penning these words with a display that won't show its best until I have a HDMI 2.1 GPU so I'm putting my wallet down now--first to get a GPU to local B&M gets my money.
Maybe, but I can only speak to my experience with Ampere and Zen 3 having been there trying to get parts from the first minute of release. Zen 3 was more attainable than Ampere but not by much, and stock doesn't exactly seem to be flowing in any better for either part currently. I would also expect more demand for the 6000 series card than Zen 3.
 

harmattan

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Maybe, but I can only speak to my experience with Ampere and Zen 3 having been there trying to get parts from the first minute of release. Zen 3 was more attainable than Ampere but not by much, and stock doesn't exactly seem to be flowing in any better for either part currently. I would also expect more demand for the 6000 series card than Zen 3.

I'm going to spend a few minutes tomorrow setting up pages and trying to purchase a 6800XT, but I'm 99.999% sure it will be a preorder with months wait at which point I'm not game for giving retailers sitting on my cash. I'm likely going to have a pint and wait for all this to blow over when PS5, Xbox, Ampere, RDNA 2 and Zen 3 should be back in stock.
 
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If you think AMD would be any different if the financials were reversed, you are kidding yourself.
that story is pretty much apples journey through the early nineties, and why i bought all the stock i could. apples stock never dries up. it’s a well of wealth.

that said i’d go amd this time around
 

MrGuvernment

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Well, local place MemoryExpress just listed them on their website and alread sold out / back ordered status, like WTF.... and the 6800 is less than $100 cheaper than the Xt.. thought it would be a larger difference....

1605678987667.png
 
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Messages
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The problem with that is that 90% of the economy is "scalping"; buying something you have a price advantage on, marking it up and reselling it.

It'd be tough to legally define, much less enforce laws against this kind of behavior. The difference between supply and demand drives price. It is the way of the world.
90% of a late stage oligopoly military empire maybe, most countries still produce stuff so they can pay tribute to the Mongols...I mean the US dollar.
 

DarkSideA8

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DarkSideA8 Seems they removed it not long after I posted that so guess they were testing it all.
FYI - Frg says he has information that AMD will have quite a bit of stock coming out through q4... so, launch day should not be as 'end of the world' as Nvidia's launch was. ETailers should restock periodically based on his post in the AMD doesn't want to make the same mistake' thread.
 
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