You Are All Tax Cheats

Sales Tax is nothing more than social engineering to discourage consumption. Deductions on income tax are nothing more than social engineering to encourage certain activities. Anybody who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.

We could eliminate a HUGE amount of government by going to a flat tax. As well as solve all these money grabs by the government.
 
Personally I would not mind paying an online sales tax as long as its NOT the typical 8% that it is around here. Especially considering you have to pay for shipping as well. If, like the tenesee law stated, it was only around 2-3% then I would be ok with that. Personally I think the sales tax in this state is WAY to high as it is, so much so that I buy nearly everything I own online except food, which is not taxed here anyhow. If they want to lower the state sales tax and charge 3% across the board for all sales, in-store or otherwise, that awesome as well.

Online retailers in that case would still have the advantage of lower costs due to reduced overhead, but the realy decision for consumers would be wether they want to pay a little extra for instant gratification and in local service if something breaks, or the cheaper price online and a pain in the ass if something goes wrong. Personally I would rather buy something like a TV in a store so I dont have to deal with all the shipping hassle, especially if it's having problems. Anything smaller than maybe a computer on the other hand I would just buy online.
 
Interesting thread. I did some reading on the tax code in texas to see if I was a tax law breaker. Part one suggests that indeed I am. Here allow me to quote it for you.

"Texas buyer, out-of-state seller
When a purchaser buys a taxable item from an out-of-state seller for use in Texas, and the seller is engaged in business in Texas, the seller must collect Texas use tax. If the seller is engaged in business at the point of delivery, the seller must also collect any local use tax due.
If the seller is not engaged in business in Texas or otherwise does not collect the Texas tax due, the customer owes Texas use tax. The customer should use the tax rate in effect at the location where the goods were received to calculate the amount of tax due. Tax is due on the entire amount charged by the seller, including shipping and handling, even if separately stated.
A purchaser who holds a Texas sales tax permit may report the transaction as a "Taxable Purchase" on their sales and use tax return. If the purchaser does not have a sales tax permit, the purchaser should file a Texas Occasional Use Tax Return (Form 01-156) (PDF, 54KB.)"

Interesting stuff. Aparrently I am on the hook for items purchased from out of state... but wait!!!

"Occasional Sales
There is an exemption for tangible personal property sold online when the property was originally purchased for personal use by a person who does not hold a sales tax permit or a similar license or permit in another state.
To qualify for the exemption, the person must not be in the business of selling taxable items, and the receipts from these sales must not exceed $3,000 in a calendar year.
There is also an exemption for the sale of up to two taxable items (other than an amusement service) in a 12-month period by a person who does not hold a sales tax permit or a similar license or permit in another state and who is not in the business of selling taxable items.
Sellers who have sales tax permits in Texas or similar licenses or permits in any other state may not sell items tax free claiming the occasional sale exemption. See Rule 3.316(b) related to occasional sales.
Purchasers are not responsible for accruing use tax on purchases made under the occasional sale exemption, except for one important exception. A purchaser who holds a sales tax permit must accrue use tax on a taxable item purchased from a person who does not hold a sales tax permit and who has sold two or fewer taxable items (other than an amusement service) during the 12-month period immediately prior to the sale. See Texas Tax Code § 151.304(g).
Although not required by law, we recommend that a purchaser ask the seller to provide a signed statement that the transaction qualifies for the occasional sale exemption in order to document the exemption. The purchaser should retain the statement in his records for four years following the date of the purchase."

The part saying purchasers are not responsible for accruing use tax on purchases made under the occasional sale exemption. Unless you hold a tax permit in the state of Texas. (Are a reseller.)

So by reading these two together it would appear to me that: Those of us in Texas without a tax permit can buy up to 3000 dollars a year in goods from out of state sellers without the need to pay taxes on them as they fall under the occasional sales loophole. And if the Texas tax man knocks on my door that will be my answer!!

Of course if you buy in excess of 3k of goods each year online then that is your issue!

Perhaps I am just reading into this what I want to see.
 
Azhar said:
Calm down skippy. It's old tax, called use tax or sales tax. In some state you're supposed to report your online purchases during tax time. This article is just saying people don't do it.
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Don't tell me what to do..I'm not upset...I've said the same thing many atimes this rolls around for conversation.......too many taxes, taxes on top of taxes......power to the sheeple.
 
I actually (depressingly) took the time to calculate how much of my income goes to taxes and government "fees" (supposedly clever way to rename and hide a tax). If you add up my income taxes, property taxes, vehicle registration, all the taxes and fees on my bills, sales taxes, etc it comes out to over %60 of my income! No shit! My water bill is only like $20 of actual use, but the taxes and government imposed fees on it put it over $40! This crap is all over the place! Enough already!
 
ZenDragon said:
Personally I would not mind paying an online sales tax as long as its NOT the typical 8% that it is around here. Especially considering you have to pay for shipping as well. If, like the tenesee law stated, it was only around 2-3% then I would be ok with that. Personally I think the sales tax in this state is WAY to high as it is, so much so that I buy nearly everything I own online except food, which is not taxed here anyhow. If they want to lower the state sales tax and charge 3% across the board for all sales, in-store or otherwise, that awesome as well.

Online retailers in that case would still have the advantage of lower costs due to reduced overhead, but the realy decision for consumers would be wether they want to pay a little extra for instant gratification and in local service if something breaks, or the cheaper price online and a pain in the ass if something goes wrong. Personally I would rather buy something like a TV in a store so I dont have to deal with all the shipping hassle, especially if it's having problems. Anything smaller than maybe a computer on the other hand I would just buy online.
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One thing I would like to add to this: If there are to be taxes on online sales the revenue should go to the state in which the sale was incurred not the state in which the seller resides. That may be difficult to set up at first but its as simple as a database with all the tax codes and the account information for each state treasury with whom to make the deposits. Addresses would be verfied by the credit cards and/or bank routing information for a online check purchase. Its really not that complciated this day in age.

Otherwise this would obviously give a huge advantage to states with a heavy internet presence. Probably 70% of all internet sales tax would then end up going to California! haha
 
To all the people against sales tax, I mean, its one of the only proportional taxes we have, why on earth would we get rid of it? Thats one way that people that don't pay taxes, pay taxes, and its the same even if your rich or poor. Increasing income or property taxes to get rid of a sales tax would suck.


Plus you can deduct sales tax anyways, so just keep good records, but ya. we are "technically" supposed to pay sales tax on items bought online that we were not required to pay sales tax on.
 
Chicago's sales tax is 10.25%, which is totally reasonable, so I would never think about purchasing goods online. ;)
 
Ibanezfoo said:
I actually (depressingly) took the time to calculate how much of my income goes to taxes and government "fees" (supposedly clever way to rename and hide a tax). If you add up my income taxes, property taxes, vehicle registration, all the taxes and fees on my bills, sales taxes, etc it comes out to over %60 of my income! No shit! My water bill is only like $20 of actual use, but the taxes and government imposed fees on it put it over $40! This crap is all over the place! Enough already!
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So true, sadly. Im in an income bracket that gets taxed at close to 35%, its absurd. I have family members making signifigantly more that get taxed in one year than I make in a decade, its insane.
 
zleuth said:
Maybe collecting sales tax is a poor way for states to generate revenue.
Last I checked, New Hampshire's schools are still open and their roads are still paved, all without sales tax.
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Except that NH has 8% tax on restaurant food, and they have a statewide property tax, which gives them one of the highest property taxes in the country. The money for state programs doesn't just magically come from nowhere.

It's only a matter of time before we start seeing online sales taxes across the board, there's just too much money changing hands there for states not to take notice.
 
wrxdrunkie said:
To all the people against sales tax, I mean, its one of the only proportional taxes we have, why on earth would we get rid of it? Thats one way that people that don't pay taxes, pay taxes, and its the same even if your rich or poor. Increasing income or property taxes to get rid of a sales tax would suck.


Plus you can deduct sales tax anyways, so just keep good records, but ya. we are "technically" supposed to pay sales tax on items bought online that we were not required to pay sales tax on.
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Sounds like you have been duped into thinking we actually require taxes in the first place....
 
bonsai said:
Except that NH has 8% tax on restaurant food, and they have a statewide property tax, which gives them one of the highest property taxes in the country. The money for state programs doesn't just magically come from nowhere.

It's only a matter of time before we start seeing online sales taxes across the board, there's just too much money changing hands there for states not to take notice.
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Very similar to Oregon, I think property tax in general is kind of stupid. Sure pay taxes on it when you purchase it, but once you own property, you should just own it, free and clear. Why should you have to continue to pay taxes on something that youve already paid for in full?
 
bonsai said:
It's only a matter of time before we start seeing online sales taxes across the board, there's just too much money changing hands there for states not to take notice.
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The cool thing about the internet though is that the more they legislate it the more we rebel. And since we're the smart ones and government is inherently dumb, they can say whatever they want and we will still get around it.
 
+1 for flat tax.. I actually like he sound of tax only on purchases and nothing else. I think income tax and property tax should be illegal. Nobody that lives in a property tax state actually owns their automobile or house and land EVER. You can finish paying your mortgage and loans but you still have the property tax. If you stop paying they put a lien on that property and if you still don't pay they take it. So there is no way that you truly own it outright! bah
 
ZenDragon said:
Very similar to Oregon, I think property tax in general is kind of stupid. Sure pay taxes on it when you purchase it, but once you own property, you should just own it, free and clear. Why should you have to continue to pay taxes on something that youve already paid for in full?
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Well you want someone to DEFEND that property from, say, the million-strong Chinese army right? Keep some nuclear missiles in silos to prevent someone dropping a bomb on you? Maybe some warships in the sea to prevent troopships from sailing over?

Do you suppose a military is free? You just pay for it once, and never have to worry about it again - the soldiers, sailors, and airmen are A-OK working for no money and no benefits?

Or, wait, you want a CONTINUED defense of that property you just bought. Oh, well...uhhh.....
 
I don't use computers so I don't buy things online, that way when I pay to file my taxes online with Turbo Tax I can say I don't buy things online.
 
snowcat said:
Just go to any state website. The state budget for the current year and the proposed budget for the following year are usually listed.

In Tennessee, about 50% is education (both primary and secondary), 25% to healthcare, and the rest for everything else.
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I'm not talking about where it's "supposed" to go in a general sense... I'm talking about reciepts and such down to the last pencil and book (for schools).

I'm willing to bet that a lot of it gets wasted or ear marked under the "education" (for this example) umbrella.
 
Work hard, the people on welfare depend on you.
 
teststrips said:
I think sales taxes are a friggin waste of time... If you need more money - increase income taxes... do away with sales taxes all together. I hate trying to figure out what stuff will cost me as the store after the 6% increase. Sales taxes are confusting, antiquated, and it would be a lot easier to just collect the money straight away... If you did away with sales taxes, maybee those local businesses would get more people in them.. we wouldn't have to pay an extra 6% because we bought locally. MORE sales taxes are not the answer - do away with them!

or cut spending and leave the current system alone.
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Please... if anything income taxes need to be thrown in the trash. They only thing they do is punish those that make more money. If anything they should do away with income tax and go with a flat sales tax. Tax people on what they buy, not what they make. Those making a lot of money are going to pay more taxes because they "generally" spend more, but the lower income households aren't being coddled by giving them lower taxes.

If you go with a flat tax then it would apply across the board for local or Internet purchases, helping to streamline the process and make sure that the appropriate taxes are being paid.
 
(And FWIW - no, I'm NOT suggesting we are in imminent danger of invasion because we DO have a defense. You may rest assured, if there was no navy, army, or air force, just a "bunch of Americans with their own guns to defend their own private land", as some argued we should have been, we would have a lot more problems than we do today. You can have the biggest personal arsenal you want - YOU, as an individual, will never be able to build your own nuke. The enemy, who work together as a unified country, can - and someone, somewhere, always will. Because while you may hate an organized central/national government with its corresponding taxes all you want, someone, SOMEWHERE, will clearly see the advantage of it, set one up, and then be able to build weapons and armies that you, as an individual, cannot respond to. And you lose, then.)
 
In my mind, because online (out-of-state use) tax is basically a tax on goods/work done in another state they won't care about lowering it at any point. "It's not stimulating our economy. In fact, we should raise online sales tax to get people to buy local!"
 
teststrips said:
If you need more money - increase income taxes...
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labor-based income taxes are illegal by definition... that's why i say fuck sales taxes, because they already take thousands of dollars from me every year when THEY ARE NOT allowed to.
 
Doesn't this imply that if you buy something out of state, memorabilia for instance, and go back to your home state, you're supposed to be paying the tax on it? That's quite ridiculous.

At least according to the TN law previously posted:
Tennessee, like other states that impose a sales tax, also taxes the use of property that is brought into the state untaxed when purchased. The purpose of the use tax is not only to raise revenue, but also to protect local merchants, who must collect the sales tax, from unfair competition from out-of-state sellers who do not collect Tennessee’s sales tax. Effective January 1, 2009, the local use tax rate on purchases or downloads of digital videos, digital books, and digital music, as defined in Tenn. Code Ann. Section 67-6-102, is established at 2.50% regardless of the actual local tax rate in effect in the jurisdiction of the user and consumer.
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dderidex said:
Well you want someone to DEFEND that property from, say, the million-strong Chinese army right? Keep some nuclear missiles in silos to prevent someone dropping a bomb on you? Maybe some warships in the sea to prevent troopships from sailing over?

Do you suppose a military is free? You just pay for it once, and never have to worry about it again - the soldiers, sailors, and airmen are A-OK working for no money and no benefits?

Or, wait, you want a CONTINUED defense of that property you just bought. Oh, well...uhhh.....
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I'll defend my own stuff thanks. Being and able bodied male I am part of the militia the Constitution talks about....
 
Ibanezfoo said:
Sounds like you have been duped into thinking we actually require taxes in the first place....
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I'm curious to see your calculations and your research to show how our system would survive without any taxes?
 
Oregon is one of those no-sales-tax states, so I'm good.

But my neighbors to the North aren't. Every few years, a Washington resident gets caught for tax evasion for buying big-ticket items in Oregon, and not paying the "Use Tax" on them when they get home to Washington (someone posted the text of Tennessee's use tax on page one of this thread, most sales-tax-laden states have similar laws.) For some items, like cars, where you have to register it, it's obvious, when you register it, they'll insist that you pay the use tax. But for other items, it's not so obvious. (Boats, airplanes, etc. One person even got nicked for 'nickel and diming' it. They did all of their regular shopping in Oregon, so they were hit with tax evasion for buying toilet paper, among other things.)

Yes, neglecting to pay sales tax is tax evasion, pure and simple. Some states don't have a "use tax", so if you buy from an out-of-state company, you're good. But most states do. You can justify it all you want, I really don't care; but don't say you're not cheating the system: You are. (Heck, if I lived in a sales-tax state, I wouldn't bother reporting my out-of-state purchases... But I wouldn't try to justify it, either.)
 
CharonPDX said:
Oregon is one of those no-sales-tax states, so I'm good.

But my neighbors to the North aren't. Every few years, a Washington resident gets caught for tax evasion for buying big-ticket items in Oregon, and not paying the "Use Tax" on them when they get home to Washington (someone posted the text of Tennessee's use tax on page one of this thread, most sales-tax-laden states have similar laws.) For some items, like cars, where you have to register it, it's obvious, when you register it, they'll insist that you pay the use tax. But for other items, it's not so obvious. (Boats, airplanes, etc. One person even got nicked for 'nickel and diming' it. They did all of their regular shopping in Oregon, so they were hit with tax evasion for buying toilet paper, among other things.)

Yes, neglecting to pay sales tax is tax evasion, pure and simple. Some states don't have a "use tax", so if you buy from an out-of-state company, you're good. But most states do. You can justify it all you want, I really don't care; but don't say you're not cheating the system: You are. (Heck, if I lived in a sales-tax state, I wouldn't bother reporting my out-of-state purchases... But I wouldn't try to justify it, either.)
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Umm, they don't require you to pay tax at the DMV for boats there? Here anything you register at the DMV you have to pay tax on, including trailers, PWC's, and sleds.
 
What next? Taxing pirates based on the value of music or movie they downloaded? That would probably be more effective than the RIAA/MPAA going after them.
 
Ibanezfoo said:
I'll defend my own stuff thanks. Being and able bodied male I am part of the militia the Constitution talks about....
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And what do you think your militia is? It's a "social" group. Who paid for your guns? Yeah, you pay for them yourselves. Could think of that money as your tax for you militia. One way or another you end up forming a "social" group....and "society". In order to be able to effectively defend itself that group has to have currency one way or another. Wether it gets it from volunteer (you and your militia buds volunteering your time & weapons), or from taxes used to pay for other peoples time & weapons, in the grand scheme of things it all ends up the same in the end.

So, sorry, but that's really kind of a moot point.

That said, I honestly have nothing at all against militia's and think it's great you give your time to one. ;)
 
What I really like is buying online from a Washington based internet company (like Amazon), paying sales tax at time of sale, and then watching it ship to me from an out-of-state warehouse.

But if I buy from a company not based in Washington and it ships from a warehouse located in Washington no sales tax is charged at time of sale.
 
Ibanezfoo said:
I'll defend my own stuff thanks. Being and able bodied male I am part of the militia the Constitution talks about....
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I suppose you pave your own roads, grow all your own food, pump and filter all your own water and waste, and home school all your children as well?
 
bonsai said:
I suppose you pave your own roads, grow all your own food, pump and filter all your own water and waste, and home school all your children as well?
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Of course not, he's not using the public internet funded by tax payers/government to post on a public forum either :p
 
Azhar said:
Credit card on file from your bank and the company you bought your items from. It's super easy to prove :-P
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Which of course they don't have access too without a warrant. :rolleyes:

Another reason to not have the government running our credit card companies or banks.
 
Exavior said:
What is your point? How does that keep you from paying taxes? Ordering them online or picking them up at the local store 5 miles down the road, either way you are still buying the item.
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Sure.
But I pay freight on all my on-line purchases......which in and of itself is a penalty for living where I do.......either that or pay the gas for driving over 100 miles to the nearest physical store.

I pay enough income taxes a year already, school taxes,license fees,dog tags, and local sales taxes.........if there was a physical store close to me, why wouldn't I use them??? it's obvious......but there isn't.......a guy in Indiana or California or Florida or where-ever has the insight to have a business I can use, my state has provided no services to get that product to me.........why should I pay them a "sales tax"???

The state provides no service, yet wants to tax my purchase.......screw that.

If I drove on the road the state provides to get to the physical store maybe......and the argument will be that UPS used the road to get to my house, but UPS pays fuel taxes and license taxes already........for the privelege of delivering that package to me, and I paid them already to do so.
 
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